Satan in Islam

[Muslim75]

I speak from the traditional knowledge in Islam.

Satan (Shaytan in Arabic, and his name is Iblees) has a huge number of Satans with him (there is not just one Satan, there are a huge number of them, and they work for Iblees, the first Satan).

Satan runs in the vein of the human being. He calls the human being to evil, day and night without ever tiring. He is on a mission, from God Almighty. God ordered him to inspire the people with evil. This is his job, to call people to evil, ceaselessly. A hint to that is that it is impossible to sin in the heavens, to eat from the Tree or any other sin. This does not happen in the heavens or in the presence of God.

Satan has 3 axis of conduct.

First, he makes one to be lazy, for humans like to rest. Second, he makes people to cheat and to deceive. Third, he makes people to think they are better than others.

God asked people, through Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) to fight Satan ceaselessly, day and night. This fight purifies the heart, because each human being is born with the ability to do evil. Humans are born pure, but with the ability to sin and do evil. The aim of Islam is to purify the human being, through fighting against Satan until he becomes pure. At that time, he will be allowed to be re-united with the everloving God who created him.

However, fighting Satan must be done with the help of God. Without it, one stands no chance.

 

[Muslim75]

Some Companions (some of the Companions of Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family, and may God be well pleased with the Companions) would faint during prayer and fall down on the ground, on account of hunger.

This is an example of how Muslims fight Satan. However, the Companions did that with the help of God. They used the help of God and did that.

 

[Dajjal]

Some people think Satan was the one who told Muhammad the Quran. But I am of the opinion that Muhammad was a very clever liar who made the whole thing up by himself.

 

[Geaux4it]

Some people think Satan was the one who told Muhammad the Quran. But I am of the opinion that Muhammad was a very clever liar who made the whole thing up by himself.

Spot don't like Muslims, especially if he's POTUS to boot

-Geaux
=========================================

 

[irosie91]

Some people think Satan was the one who told Muhammad the Quran. But I am of the opinion that Muhammad was a very clever liar who made the whole thing up by himself.

so true-----It is a bit interesting that the Islamic view of
SATAN----is a kind of nursery school version of the
Jewish view. Satan is a Hebrew word which kinda means "DECEIVER" or "ACCUSER" ----(I think) it is not an actual independent entity----but something like an "evil impulse" which exists as man's nemesis ---It seems to me
that both the Christian and the Muslim versions kinda grant
to SATAN-------a personality of "his" own. The idea of engaging in a "COMBAT" with Satan does not exist
in Judaism-------"resisting an evil impulse"---is a better
description. The Christian concept seems to me something like HADES in the greek pantheon. and the Islamic view is ----more into millions of little spirit beings---
JINNIES------scary little creatures all over the place. I am no expert on zoroastrianism----but there is a concept of
GOOD VS EVIL that seems to have something to do with
vitalized sparks of fire. I believe that the spark theory may have spawned the JINNI theory

 

[AmericanFirst]

I speak from the traditional knowledge in Islam.

Satan (Shaytan in Arabic, and his name is Iblees) has a huge number of Satans with him (there is not just one Satan, there are a huge number of them, and they work for Iblees, the first Satan).

Satan runs in the vein of the human being. He calls the human being to evil, day and night without ever tiring. He is on a mission, from God Almighty. God ordered him to inspire the people with evil. This is his job, to call people to evil, ceaselessly. A hint to that is that it is impossible to sin in the heavens, to eat from the Tree or any other sin. This does not happen in the heavens or in the presence of God.

Satan has 3 axis of conduct.

First, he makes one to be lazy, for humans like to rest. Second, he makes people to cheat and to deceive. Third, he makes people to think they are better than others.

God asked people, through Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) to fight Satan ceaselessly, day and night. This fight purifies the heart, because each human being is born with the ability to do evil. Humans are born pure, but with the ability to sin and do evil. The aim of Islam is to purify the human being, through fighting against Satan until he becomes pure. At that time, he will be allowed to be re-united with the everloving God who created him.

However, fighting Satan must be done with the help of God. Without it, one stands no chance.

Allah is satan

 

[irosie91]

I speak from the traditional knowledge in Islam.

Satan (Shaytan in Arabic, and his name is Iblees) has a huge number of Satans with him (there is not just one Satan, there are a huge number of them, and they work for Iblees, the first Satan).

Satan runs in the vein of the human being. He calls the human being to evil, day and night without ever tiring. He is on a mission, from God Almighty. God ordered him to inspire the people with evil. This is his job, to call people to evil, ceaselessly. A hint to that is that it is impossible to sin in the heavens, to eat from the Tree or any other sin. This does not happen in the heavens or in the presence of God.

Satan has 3 axis of conduct.

First, he makes one to be lazy, for humans like to rest. Second, he makes people to cheat and to deceive. Third, he makes people to think they are better than others.

God asked people, through Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) to fight Satan ceaselessly, day and night. This fight purifies the heart, because each human being is born with the ability to do evil. Humans are born pure, but with the ability to sin and do evil. The aim of Islam is to purify the human being, through fighting against Satan until he becomes pure. At that time, he will be allowed to be re-united with the everloving God who created him.

However, fighting Satan must be done with the help of God. Without it, one stands no chance.

Allah is satan

nope------allah is not Satan------allah is a construct invented
by a manical rapist/murderer who claimed himself to be THE KING AND FOUNDER OF AN EMPIRE------muhummad anointed by his very own construct ---"allah"

 

[Mindlight]

I speak from the traditional knowledge in Islam.

Satan (Shaytan in Arabic, and his name is Iblees) has a huge number of Satans with him (there is not just one Satan, there are a huge number of them, and they work for Iblees, the first Satan).

Satan runs in the vein of the human being. He calls the human being to evil, day and night without ever tiring. He is on a mission, from God Almighty. God ordered him to inspire the people with evil. This is his job, to call people to evil, ceaselessly. A hint to that is that it is impossible to sin in the heavens, to eat from the Tree or any other sin. This does not happen in the heavens or in the presence of God.

Satan has 3 axis of conduct.

First, he makes one to be lazy, for humans like to rest. Second, he makes people to cheat and to deceive. Third, he makes people to think they are better than others.

God asked people, through Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) to fight Satan ceaselessly, day and night. This fight purifies the heart, because each human being is born with the ability to do evil. Humans are born pure, but with the ability to sin and do evil. The aim of Islam is to purify the human being, through fighting against Satan until he becomes pure. At that time, he will be allowed to be re-united with the everloving God who created him.

However, fighting Satan must be done with the help of God. Without it, one stands no chance.

Interesting post and clearly there are parallels with the older Jewish and Christian views on Satan. In the Christian tradition Satan is a powerful being who has fallen from a previously perfect state in the presence of God. Indeed he is such a powerful angel that his fall brings a third of the angels of heaven with him. His motivations include pride - he wishes to place his throne above Gods and spite and anger - he is trying to take as many of us with him as possible to hell and seeks to spoil Gods creation and people. His destiny is hell and his fate is already decided.

In the fight against Satan Christians also know that they need Gods help and without Gods grace and mercy can have no assurance of Gods final victory. The Christian view of atonement is that Jesus died on the cross and paid the price for our sins. So our assurance is founded on a definite act of God in history.

Muslims have a very different view of atonement and I believe this contributes to the uncertainty as to whether a person will make it to eternal life with God.

The bible says resist the devil who prowls around like a lion seeking to devour us and then he will flee from us. But I do not see where a Muslims assurance of final victory lies in that fight. Even having fought all your life against evil it seems to me that you can never be sure that you have done enough and indeed have even fought for the right things.

 

[irosie91]

I speak from the traditional knowledge in Islam.

Satan (Shaytan in Arabic, and his name is Iblees) has a huge number of Satans with him (there is not just one Satan, there are a huge number of them, and they work for Iblees, the first Satan).

Satan runs in the vein of the human being. He calls the human being to evil, day and night without ever tiring. He is on a mission, from God Almighty. God ordered him to inspire the people with evil. This is his job, to call people to evil, ceaselessly. A hint to that is that it is impossible to sin in the heavens, to eat from the Tree or any other sin. This does not happen in the heavens or in the presence of God.

Satan has 3 axis of conduct.

First, he makes one to be lazy, for humans like to rest. Second, he makes people to cheat and to deceive. Third, he makes people to think they are better than others.

God asked people, through Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) to fight Satan ceaselessly, day and night. This fight purifies the heart, because each human being is born with the ability to do evil. Humans are born pure, but with the ability to sin and do evil. The aim of Islam is to purify the human being, through fighting against Satan until he becomes pure. At that time, he will be allowed to be re-united with the everloving God who created him.

However, fighting Satan must be done with the help of God. Without it, one stands no chance.

Interesting post and clearly there are parallels with the older Jewish and Christian views on Satan. In the Christian tradition Satan is a powerful being who has fallen from a previously perfect state in the presence of God. Indeed he is such a powerful angel that his fall brings a third of the angels of heaven with him. His motivations include pride - he wishes to place his throne above Gods and spite and anger - he is trying to take as many of us with him as possible to hell and seeks to spoil Gods creation and people. His destiny is hell and his fate is already decided.

In the fight against Satan Christians also know that they need Gods help and without Gods grace and mercy can have no assurance of Gods final victory. The Christian view of atonement is that Jesus died on the cross and paid the price for our sins. So our assurance is founded on a definite act of God in history.

Muslims have a very different view of atonement and I believe this contributes to the uncertainty as to whether a person will make it to eternal life with God.

The bible says resist the devil who prowls around like a lion seeking to devour us and then he will flee from us. But I do not see where a Muslims assurance of final victory lies in that fight. Even having fought all your life against evil it seems to me that you can never be sure that you have done enough and indeed have even fought for the right things.

 

[irosie91]

I speak from the traditional knowledge in Islam.

Satan (Shaytan in Arabic, and his name is Iblees) has a huge number of Satans with him (there is not just one Satan, there are a huge number of them, and they work for Iblees, the first Satan).

Satan runs in the vein of the human being. He calls the human being to evil, day and night without ever tiring. He is on a mission, from God Almighty. God ordered him to inspire the people with evil. This is his job, to call people to evil, ceaselessly. A hint to that is that it is impossible to sin in the heavens, to eat from the Tree or any other sin. This does not happen in the heavens or in the presence of God.

Satan has 3 axis of conduct.

First, he makes one to be lazy, for humans like to rest. Second, he makes people to cheat and to deceive. Third, he makes people to think they are better than others.

God asked people, through Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) to fight Satan ceaselessly, day and night. This fight purifies the heart, because each human being is born with the ability to do evil. Humans are born pure, but with the ability to sin and do evil. The aim of Islam is to purify the human being, through fighting against Satan until he becomes pure. At that time, he will be allowed to be re-united with the everloving God who created him.

However, fighting Satan must be done with the help of God. Without it, one stands no chance.

Interesting post and clearly there are parallels with the older Jewish and Christian views on Satan. In the Christian tradition Satan is a powerful being who has fallen from a previously perfect state in the presence of God. Indeed he is such a powerful angel that his fall brings a third of the angels of heaven with him. His motivations include pride - he wishes to place his throne above Gods and spite and anger - he is trying to take as many of us with him as possible to hell and seeks to spoil Gods creation and people. His destiny is hell and his fate is already decided.

In the fight against Satan Christians also know that they need Gods help and without Gods grace and mercy can have no assurance of Gods final victory. The Christian view of atonement is that Jesus died on the cross and paid the price for our sins. So our assurance is founded on a definite act of God in history.

Muslims have a very different view of atonement and I believe this contributes to the uncertainty as to whether a person will make it to eternal life with God.

The bible says resist the devil who prowls around like a lion seeking to devour us and then he will flee from us. But I do not see where a Muslims assurance of final victory lies in that fight. Even having fought all your life against evil it seems to me that you can never be sure that you have done enough and indeed have even fought for the right things.

My take on the devil is that all three are actually entirely different. I have no idea from whence came the jewish model----but it is actually simplistic ------satan is not actually a big bad king of the "other" kingdom. There is no other kingdom-----an organized "hell" does not exist and Satan has no independent existence-----which is why I use the term "evil impulse" to describe this "spirit semi-being"
The Christian concept seems to me to be based on the
classical greek tragedy-----ANGEL WITH MUCH TOO
much HUBRIS-----goes into downfall mode into eternal
exile in the lousy place (Oedipus at colonus). Oedipus
did end up with a kind of very interesting POWER
Then the Islamic concept-----evil jinnies----all over the place---endlessly doing bad stuff to humans----bad weather,
earthquakes, hemorrhoids and on and on----the only way
to deal with them is keep the powerful guy UP THERE on
your side----by doing what IT WANTS YOU TO DO----be
on the "side" of allah. It's a war between "us" and "them"-----support your SHEIK and do whatever he wants
you to do.

 

[Mindlight]

I speak from the traditional knowledge in Islam.

Satan (Shaytan in Arabic, and his name is Iblees) has a huge number of Satans with him (there is not just one Satan, there are a huge number of them, and they work for Iblees, the first Satan).

Satan runs in the vein of the human being. He calls the human being to evil, day and night without ever tiring. He is on a mission, from God Almighty. God ordered him to inspire the people with evil. This is his job, to call people to evil, ceaselessly. A hint to that is that it is impossible to sin in the heavens, to eat from the Tree or any other sin. This does not happen in the heavens or in the presence of God.

Satan has 3 axis of conduct.

First, he makes one to be lazy, for humans like to rest. Second, he makes people to cheat and to deceive. Third, he makes people to think they are better than others.

God asked people, through Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) to fight Satan ceaselessly, day and night. This fight purifies the heart, because each human being is born with the ability to do evil. Humans are born pure, but with the ability to sin and do evil. The aim of Islam is to purify the human being, through fighting against Satan until he becomes pure. At that time, he will be allowed to be re-united with the everloving God who created him.

However, fighting Satan must be done with the help of God. Without it, one stands no chance.

Interesting post and clearly there are parallels with the older Jewish and Christian views on Satan. In the Christian tradition Satan is a powerful being who has fallen from a previously perfect state in the presence of God. Indeed he is such a powerful angel that his fall brings a third of the angels of heaven with him. His motivations include pride - he wishes to place his throne above Gods and spite and anger - he is trying to take as many of us with him as possible to hell and seeks to spoil Gods creation and people. His destiny is hell and his fate is already decided.

In the fight against Satan Christians also know that they need Gods help and without Gods grace and mercy can have no assurance of Gods final victory. The Christian view of atonement is that Jesus died on the cross and paid the price for our sins. So our assurance is founded on a definite act of God in history.

Muslims have a very different view of atonement and I believe this contributes to the uncertainty as to whether a person will make it to eternal life with God.

The bible says resist the devil who prowls around like a lion seeking to devour us and then he will flee from us. But I do not see where a Muslims assurance of final victory lies in that fight. Even having fought all your life against evil it seems to me that you can never be sure that you have done enough and indeed have even fought for the right things.

My take on the devil is that all three are actually entirely different. I have no idea from whence came the jewish model----but it is actually simplistic ------satan is not actually a big bad king of the "other" kingdom. There is no other kingdom-----an organized "hell" does not exist and Satan has no independent existence-----which is why I use the term "evil impulse" to describe this "spirit semi-being"
The Christian concept seems to me to be based on the
classical greek tragedy-----ANGEL WITH MUCH TOO
much HUBRIS-----goes into downfall mode into eternal
exile in the lousy place (Oedipus at colonus). Oedipus
did end up with a kind of very interesting POWER
Then the Islamic concept-----evil jinnies----all over the place---endlessly doing bad stuff to humans----bad weather,
earthquakes, hemorrhoids and on and on----the only way
to deal with them is keep the powerful guy UP THERE on
your side----by doing what IT WANTS YOU TO DO----be
on the "side" of allah. It's a war between "us" and "them"-----support your SHEIK and do whatever he wants
you to do.

The Conservative Evangelical view I hold is based on the Bible including the scriptures we share with Jews.

How do you handle the serpent in the garden of Eden and the story of Job? The devil is portrayed in both as a personal being.

Hell (or Gehenna) is a lake of fire final destination for evil, hades is like a holding place for the dead. There are various spiritual prisons described for nasty angels like the abyss for instance. But Satans "Kingdom" is i suppose a way of understanding his preeminence amongst the third of angels who fell and his hold on us through our sins. He is described as the prince of the power of the air. His area of influence is mainly here on Earth and the powers and principalities assigned to us rather than in the heavenly realms. Indeed Christians view the office of Accuser as one which he was given by God. It is overthrown by Christs blood sacrifice which renders his office redundant in the case of Christians whose sins are paid for. With the final removal of unbelievers at Judgment Day Satan will no longer have a role to play. His power was always the threat of death for sin but Christ rose and with him the threat of death is no longer so frightening and it has no final hold. Unlike God Satan cannot be Omnipresent, omniscient or indeed Omnipotent and his fate has been decided by God not His own ambition.

I get the impression devils are too easily blamed for bad stuff in Islam. We also need to take responsibility for our sins. Also the Christian view of the fall as somehow breaking nature means that shit happens in Nature. It is our response to evil that defines us not that we are the victim of an evil act or event.

 

[irosie91]

I speak from the traditional knowledge in Islam.

Satan (Shaytan in Arabic, and his name is Iblees) has a huge number of Satans with him (there is not just one Satan, there are a huge number of them, and they work for Iblees, the first Satan).

Satan runs in the vein of the human being. He calls the human being to evil, day and night without ever tiring. He is on a mission, from God Almighty. God ordered him to inspire the people with evil. This is his job, to call people to evil, ceaselessly. A hint to that is that it is impossible to sin in the heavens, to eat from the Tree or any other sin. This does not happen in the heavens or in the presence of God.

Satan has 3 axis of conduct.

First, he makes one to be lazy, for humans like to rest. Second, he makes people to cheat and to deceive. Third, he makes people to think they are better than others.

God asked people, through Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) to fight Satan ceaselessly, day and night. This fight purifies the heart, because each human being is born with the ability to do evil. Humans are born pure, but with the ability to sin and do evil. The aim of Islam is to purify the human being, through fighting against Satan until he becomes pure. At that time, he will be allowed to be re-united with the everloving God who created him.

However, fighting Satan must be done with the help of God. Without it, one stands no chance.

Interesting post and clearly there are parallels with the older Jewish and Christian views on Satan. In the Christian tradition Satan is a powerful being who has fallen from a previously perfect state in the presence of God. Indeed he is such a powerful angel that his fall brings a third of the angels of heaven with him. His motivations include pride - he wishes to place his throne above Gods and spite and anger - he is trying to take as many of us with him as possible to hell and seeks to spoil Gods creation and people. His destiny is hell and his fate is already decided.

In the fight against Satan Christians also know that they need Gods help and without Gods grace and mercy can have no assurance of Gods final victory. The Christian view of atonement is that Jesus died on the cross and paid the price for our sins. So our assurance is founded on a definite act of God in history.

Muslims have a very different view of atonement and I believe this contributes to the uncertainty as to whether a person will make it to eternal life with God.

The bible says resist the devil who prowls around like a lion seeking to devour us and then he will flee from us. But I do not see where a Muslims assurance of final victory lies in that fight. Even having fought all your life against evil it seems to me that you can never be sure that you have done enough and indeed have even fought for the right things.

My take on the devil is that all three are actually entirely different. I have no idea from whence came the jewish model----but it is actually simplistic ------satan is not actually a big bad king of the "other" kingdom. There is no other kingdom-----an organized "hell" does not exist and Satan has no independent existence-----which is why I use the term "evil impulse" to describe this "spirit semi-being"
The Christian concept seems to me to be based on the
classical greek tragedy-----ANGEL WITH MUCH TOO
much HUBRIS-----goes into downfall mode into eternal
exile in the lousy place (Oedipus at colonus). Oedipus
did end up with a kind of very interesting POWER
Then the Islamic concept-----evil jinnies----all over the place---endlessly doing bad stuff to humans----bad weather,
earthquakes, hemorrhoids and on and on----the only way
to deal with them is keep the powerful guy UP THERE on
your side----by doing what IT WANTS YOU TO DO----be
on the "side" of allah. It's a war between "us" and "them"-----support your SHEIK and do whatever he wants
you to do.

The Conservative Evangelical view I hold is based on the Bible including the scriptures we share with Jews.

How do you handle the serpent in the garden of Eden and the story of Job? The devil is portrayed in both as a personal being.

Hell (or Gehenna) is a lake of fire final destination for evil, hades is like a holding place for the dead. There are various spiritual prisons described for nasty angels like the abyss for instance. But Satans "Kingdom" is i suppose a way of understanding his preeminence amongst the third of angels who fell and his hold on us through our sins. He is described as the prince of the power of the air. His area of influence is mainly here on Earth and the powers and principalities assigned to us rather than in the heavenly realms. Indeed Christians view the office of Accuser as one which he was given by God. It is overthrown by Christs blood sacrifice which renders his office redundant in the case of Christians whose sins are paid for. With the final removal of unbelievers at Judgment Day Satan will no longer have a role to play. His power was always the threat of death for sin but Christ rose and with him the threat of death is no longer so frightening and it has no final hold. Unlike God Satan cannot be Omnipresent, omniscient or indeed Omnipotent and his fate has been decided by God not His own ambition.

I get the impression devils are too easily blamed for bad stuff in Islam. We also need to take responsibility for our sins. Also the Christian view of the fall as somehow breaking nature means that shit happens in Nature. It is our response to evil that defines us not that we are the victim of an evil act or event.

I take the entire book of genesis as utterly sublime literature---lots of poetry and lots of allegory -----that includes the book of JOB----which is kinda stuck in the vicinity of Genesis and---as far as I know---of unknown authorship------really old and
quite sophisticated.

 

[MaryL]

I am wondering why traditional Muslims can't do more to stop Extremists that cause all the problems in the world? Stop praying. Do something. Really do something.

 

[irosie91]

I am wondering why traditional Muslims can't do more to stop Extremists that cause all the problems in the world? Stop praying. Do something. Really do something.

What are you calling "extremists"? It is clear to me that
you never had any candid interaction with muslims----ordinary muslims.
You may see the TALIBAN as "extremists"------they are the cream of the crop of young muslim college students-----college students in a land where a huge number of people is entirely illiterate------the TOP DRAWER PEOPLE and the beloved children, brothers, cousins and school mates of hundreds of thousands of Pakistanis-----and they are doing ALLAH's will. They are HEROES

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I speak from the traditional knowledge in Islam.

Satan (Shaytan in Arabic, and his name is Iblees) has a huge number of Satans with him (there is not just one Satan, there are a huge number of them, and they work for Iblees, the first Satan).

Satan runs in the vein of the human being. He calls the human being to evil, day and night without ever tiring. He is on a mission, from God Almighty. God ordered him to inspire the people with evil. This is his job, to call people to evil, ceaselessly. A hint to that is that it is impossible to sin in the heavens, to eat from the Tree or any other sin. This does not happen in the heavens or in the presence of God.

Satan has 3 axis of conduct.

First, he makes one to be lazy, for humans like to rest. Second, he makes people to cheat and to deceive. Third, he makes people to think they are better than others.

God asked people, through Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) to fight Satan ceaselessly, day and night. This fight purifies the heart, because each human being is born with the ability to do evil. Humans are born pure, but with the ability to sin and do evil. The aim of Islam is to purify the human being, through fighting against Satan until he becomes pure. At that time, he will be allowed to be re-united with the everloving God who created him.

However, fighting Satan must be done with the help of God. Without it, one stands no chance.

Thank you for sharing what you believe in such an open and candid manner, Muslim75. Some of what you have written here I was not aware of. I have learned something from reading your post. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on what you believe.

 

[Muslim75]

the Islamic concept-----evil jinnies----all over the place---endlessly doing bad stuff to humans----bad weather,
earthquakes, hemorrhoids

There is no such belief in Islam.

In the fight against Satan Christians also know that they need Gods help and without Gods grace and mercy can have no assurance of Gods final victory.

There is no fight against Satan in Christianity. There is atonement.

Muslims have a very different view of atonement and I believe this contributes to the uncertainty as to whether a person will make it to eternal life with God.

There is no belief of atonement in Islam. Humans are born pure, sinless. Then Satan will inspire them to sin. Therein starts the fight against Satan. But in order to succeed, this fight must be made with the help of God, not by oneself.

The bible says resist the devil who prowls around like a lion seeking to devour us and then he will flee from us. But I do not see where a Muslims assurance of final victory lies in that fight.

Islam teaches to fight Satan until you succeed and reunite with God Almighty. This fight is made with the help of God, not by oneself. By oneself, there is no chance to succeed.

I get the impression devils are too easily blamed for bad stuff in Islam. We also need to take responsibility for our sins.

In the traditional knowledge in Islam, devils are not blamed. People are blamed for obeying devils. Devils are on a mission, from God, to inspire people with evil. The responsibility is on human beings to fight against Satan and disobey him. To succeed in this fight (I mean, not the instant to instant fight, but the fight of a lifetime), they will need to use the help of God. Without it, there is no chance.

I am wondering why traditional Muslims can't do more to stop Extremists that cause all the problems in the world? Stop praying. Do something. Really do something.

Such a noble and such a pure religion that strongly teaches to never lie, to help the needy, to love God and acknowledge His love as the Creator, and to love all of His creation, to be good to people, to never get angry at someone who offends you, to never retaliate, to avoid intoxicants, to take care of one's health, to earn a living.....adepts of such a religion have more to do than to go to people who say: "this religion orders me to kill anyone who does not share my beliefs", just so to tell them they are doing something wrong.

 

[Mindlight]

In the fight against Satan Christians also know that they need Gods help and without Gods grace and mercy can have no assurance of Gods final victory.

There is no fight against Satan in Christianity. There is atonement.

Muslims have a very different view of atonement and I believe this contributes to the uncertainty as to whether a person will make it to eternal life with God.

There is no belief of atonement in Islam. Humans are born pure, sinless. Then Satan will inspire them to sin. Therein starts the fight against Satan. But in order to succeed, this fight must be made with the help of God, not by oneself.

The bible says resist the devil who prowls around like a lion seeking to devour us and then he will flee from us. But I do not see where a Muslims assurance of final victory lies in that fight.

Islam teaches to fight Satan until you succeed and reunite with God Almighty. This fight is made with the help of God, not by oneself. By oneself, there is no chance to succeed.

I get the impression devils are too easily blamed for bad stuff in Islam. We also need to take responsibility for our sins.

In the traditional knowledge in Islam, devils are not blamed. People are blamed for obeying devils. Devils are on a mission, from God, to inspire people with evil. The responsibility is on human beings to fight against Satan and disobey him. To succeed in this fight (I mean, not the instant to instant fight, but the fight of a lifetime), they will need to use the help of God. Without it, there is no chance.

So you saying that atonement does not figure in the fight against Satan. In Christianity there is assurance that the power Satan has in the universal over mankind, because of his office and our sin, is broken by a blood sacrifice. We fight Satan but with the assurance that in the overall scheme of things we have already won. Something like the forces that landed at DDay and established a second front against the Nazis. Final victory was assured it was just a question of working it through. There were reversals and small defeats but the overall direction was success with the assurance of victory. Every soldier had a part to play but the war was already won.

So if not sin what is the power that Satan actually has over an individual. Is it that of a bully who by sheer brute force persuades people to do wrong. To fight against Satan in the Muslim view is a matter of will and brute force? If it is an inner struggle against a stronger will that must call on Gods even stronger will to overcome how does God provide this help. Is this a strengthening of the individual who calls him to overcome in the battles he fights or is this God Himself landing a few punches in Satans face so that he concedes this particular struggle. Does the fact a person has sinned weaken them in this fight or is sin an irrelevance in the fight.

How do you know when you are not in Satans plan rather than Gods. What assurance does God offer that you are doing the right thing in a particular situation? How does God strengthen a believer in his fight against Satan? How can you be sure of a place in Paradise?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

the Islamic concept-----evil jinnies----all over the place---endlessly doing bad stuff to humans----bad weather,
earthquakes, hemorrhoids

There is no such belief in Islam.

In the fight against Satan Christians also know that they need Gods help and without Gods grace and mercy can have no assurance of Gods final victory.

There is no fight against Satan in Christianity. There is atonement.

Muslims have a very different view of atonement and I believe this contributes to the uncertainty as to whether a person will make it to eternal life with God.

There is no belief of atonement in Islam. Humans are born pure, sinless. Then Satan will inspire them to sin. Therein starts the fight against Satan. But in order to succeed, this fight must be made with the help of God, not by oneself.

The bible says resist the devil who prowls around like a lion seeking to devour us and then he will flee from us. But I do not see where a Muslims assurance of final victory lies in that fight.

Islam teaches to fight Satan until you succeed and reunite with God Almighty. This fight is made with the help of God, not by oneself. By oneself, there is no chance to succeed.

I get the impression devils are too easily blamed for bad stuff in Islam. We also need to take responsibility for our sins.

In the traditional knowledge in Islam, devils are not blamed. People are blamed for obeying devils. Devils are on a mission, from God, to inspire people with evil. The responsibility is on human beings to fight against Satan and disobey him. To succeed in this fight (I mean, not the instant to instant fight, but the fight of a lifetime), they will need to use the help of God. Without it, there is no chance.

I am wondering why traditional Muslims can't do more to stop Extremists that cause all the problems in the world? Stop praying. Do something. Really do something.

Such a noble and such a pure religion that strongly teaches to never lie, to help the needy, to love God and acknowledge His love as the Creator, and to love all of His creation, to be good to people, to never get angry at someone who offends you, to never retaliate, to avoid intoxicants, to take care of one's health, to earn a living.....adepts of such a religion have more to do than to go to people who say: "this religion orders me to kill anyone who does not share my beliefs", just so to tell them they are doing something wrong.

I would like to discuss this with you and that is why I responded. I had given up the thread after some Catholic here was suggesting dropping a nuclear bomb on Mecca. I felt he derailed my thread and it was lost. Now you are bringing it back to the discussion. On the matter of strongly teaching never to lie - I must disagree with you - Your prophet did not teach that.
One of the first assassinations - a series of them - that your prophet ordered was of an old Jewish man named Inbu' l-Ashraf. His crime was writing poetry that insulted the Muslims. Your prophet said, Who will rid me of Ibnu'l-Ahsraf? One of his followers volunteered and said, I'll do it. Your prophet responded, Do so if you can.

Your prophet gave explicit permission to his assassins to lie and use trickery in order to accomplish their mission.

The report of how the murder was accomplished goes like this, Mohammad's followers decided to deceive the old man to get him out of his house in the middle of the night and when he came out they jumped him with daggers and swords and brutally murdered him. After completing their mission, they reported back that they had killed "God's enemy". That was not "God's enemy", that was "God's child" and the murder was motivated by a desire for revenge after having felt offended by a poem. This story is from the biography of Mohammad. Now let me ask you something. How can the Jews be God's enemy? They are his people! They are not his enemy. The scriptures (which precede your Koran by many centuries) declare that God said, I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you. This is God's Word to Abraham and his seed. I have experienced the blessings of blessing God's people and so I know this is a reality. On the other hand, I have seen the curses that come upon the people who curse the Jews and this too is a reality.

To deceive someone - to lie to them, to use trickery to lure them out of their home in the middle of the night in order to murder them with swords and daggers over a poem? Is not a defense of God Almighty. It is the cold blooded murder of one of his children. Your own heart should tell you this is true because if it were to happen to one of your own Muslim brethren you would feel outrage at such an act. You see, unless we stay with the truth, discuss this with truth there can be no right conclusion.

I've decided because you are here - to return to this thread - which I had abandoned because of a Catholic who was in my belief - trying to hijack it - so I won't be responding to him anymore but I will discuss this with you if you so desire. I find you to be very polite and appreciate it, Muslim75.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I posted this response on the wrong thread. Sorry about that.

 

[September]

Iblis plays a significant role in my own spirituality.

Instead of representing the Satan archetype, which I attribute to Lilith, I have merged Iblis with the Lucifer archetype to stand for freedom, liberation, and enlightenment, among other things. Wheras Lilith represents a Path embracing Hell, Iblis represents a Path against Heaven and Hell.

Besides God/ YHWH/ Allah, Athena/ Ishtar and Lilith/ Ereshkigal are the deities that I most resonate with... but Iblis and Michael are the next most important in my Pantheon.

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