Russia's Unreasonable Demands for Peace Deal!

[Mac-7]

From the Russian point of view it is Russian land. The Russian people live there

Russians gave up Ukraine when the Soviet Union broke up

Its not their land

 

[toomuchtime_]

From the Russian point of view it is Russian land. The Russian people live there, and European invaders and their local collaborants (as they usually do) discriminate, kill, rape and torture them.

There were no Russian people living in Ukraine, they were all Ukrainian citizens.

 

[Silver Cat]

There were no Russian people living in Ukraine, they were all Ukrainian citizens.

Sure. There were no any Americans back in 1776, all of them were subjects of the British crown, weren't they? I believe that any government or any state must exists for the people, not the people must change themselves for the government. I believe in human rights. And when the "government" (especially if it's non-elected Junta) starts systematic abusing and violation of their God-given rights, including attacks on their language and faith - those people definitely have the right of rebellion.

 

[Silver Cat]

Russians gave up Ukraine when the Soviet Union broke up

Its not their land

They still live there. It is their land. Any land belongs to the people who live and work on it.
Soviet Union had broken apart because of the bad management. Yugoslavia had broken apart because of the bad management. Ukraine had broken apart because of the bad management. The USA shouldn't support unjustful Neo-Nazy tyranny of the Kievan regime, because Ukraine can't survive without respecting the basic human rights of their citizens.

 

[JohnDB]

They still live there. It is their land. Any land belongs to the people who live and work on it.
Soviet Union had broken apart because of the bad management. Yugoslavia had broken apart because of the bad management. Ukraine had broken apart because of the bad management. The USA shouldn't support unjustful Neo-Nazy tyranny of the Kievan regime, because Ukraine can't survive without respecting the basic human rights of their citizens.

That's pretty much a complete lie. Lie in start, lie in center and lie in whole.

Are you Russian?
Or
Are you paid by a Russian company?

Ukraine was a sovereign nation as designed by Gorbachev. It was complete with water rights and ports and farms and industrial businesses.

Russia wanted it back when Putin got into power. Simply for the many underutilized resources that that nation has. From high tech to agricultural to mining, Ukraine has a LOT of resources. Even a willing and eager labor force.

So Russia began paying loyalists to move to Ukraine and begin propaganda wars. (Just like YOU are doing) This propaganda campaign started back in early turn of the century. Of course Russia promised Ukranians anything if they gave up their nuclear weapons....at the time it did seem like a good idea because of the lack of military Ukraine had at the time and was struggling to keep that up. But more sinister things were going on. Russia wanted to annex the entire nation. Not because of any other reason than it wanted to exploit their resources. Because if Ukraine became like Taiwan with the entire world investing in Ukraine....Ukraine would become more wealthy than Russia the gas station nation.

So basically you are a propagandist liar. I don't say that easily or comfortably. Most people are not trained like some are with critical analysis....which is why in some nations your type of propaganda campaigns fall really flat. The schools actually teach their children how to analyze propaganda.

You aren't exactly a bot...SonIL was working with another guy on that tech....and you are not that. But definitely a propagandist of some sort.

 

[Mac-7]

Ukraine had broken apart because of the bad management.

Wrong

Ukraine was a captive slave state of the Soviet Union

Any russians living there were interlopers who could have returned to russia if they wanted to be russians instead of Ukrainians

Hitler used the same lie as an excuse to invade and conquer Czechoslovakia in 1939

 

[Silver Cat]

That's pretty much a complete lie. Lie in start, lie in center and lie in whole.

Are you Russian?
Or
Are you paid by a Russian company?

Ukraine was a sovereign nation as designed by Gorbachev. It was complete with water rights and ports and farms and industrial businesses.

Russia wanted it back when Putin got into power. Simply for the many underutilized resources that that nation has. From high tech to agricultural to mining, Ukraine has a LOT of resources. Even a willing and eager labor force.

So Russia began paying loyalists to move to Ukraine and begin propaganda wars. (Just like YOU are doing) This propaganda campaign started back in early turn of the century. Of course Russia promised Ukranians anything if they gave up their nuclear weapons....at the time it did seem like a good idea because of the lack of military Ukraine had at the time and was struggling to keep that up. But more sinister things were going on. Russia wanted to annex the entire nation. Not because of any other reason than it wanted to exploit their resources. Because if Ukraine became like Taiwan with the entire world investing in Ukraine....Ukraine would become more wealthy than Russia the gas station nation.

So basically you are a propagandist liar. I don't say that easily or comfortably. Most people are not trained like some are with critical analysis....which is why in some nations your type of propaganda campaigns fall really flat. The schools actually teach their children how to analyze propaganda.

You aren't exactly a bot...SonIL was working with another guy on that tech....and you are not that. But definitely a propagandist of some sort.

Man, you are still talking about lands and resources, not about humans and security concerns.
Yugoslavia was a sovereign nation, but when their government became unsatisfactory for their peoples - it fell apart. When the Serbs in the vain attempt to keep it by force started their "actions" in Kosovo - we intervened. May be, that intervention wasn't the best way to establish the peace, but the peace (quite fragile) was established.

Cuba was a sovereign nation, but when they decided, that they can join the Communists and deploy nuclear missiles - the USA had no other choice than to be involved.

The British Empire was a sovereign nation, and, of course, Russia and France supported American rebels not only because they loved the Americans, but to weaken the Brits. It doesn't mean, that the American rebels were wrong, and the Brits were right. Quite opposite.


The questions according modern situation around Ukraine are simple:
1. Should we recognize that the Russians are human beings and deserve to live in a state, that respect their right to speak their language and profess their faith? If yes - then the Russian demands of denazification of Ukraine are legitimate.
2. Should we recognize the necesserity of the peaceful coexistence between NATO and Russia? If yes - then we should start talking about demilitarisation of Ukraine and about weapon control in Europe.

 

[JohnDB]

Man, you are still talking about lands and resources, not about humans and security concerns.
Yugoslavia was a sovereign nation, but when their government became unsatisfactory for their peoples - it fell apart. When the Serbs in the vain attempt to keep it by force started their "actions" in Kosovo - we intervened. May be, that intervention wasn't the best way to establish the peace, but the peace (quite fragile) was established.

Cuba was a sovereign nation, but when they decided, that they can join the Communists and deploy nuclear missiles - the USA had no other choice than to be involved.

The British Empire was a sovereign nation, and, of course, Russia and France supported American rebels not only because they loved the Americans, but to weaken the Brits. It doesn't mean, that the American rebels were wrong, and the Brits were right. Quite opposite.


The questions according modern situation around Ukraine are simple:
1. Should we recognize that the Russians are human beings and deserve to live in a state, that respect their right to speak their language and profess their faith? If yes - then the Russian demands of denazification of Ukraine are legitimate.
2. Should we recognize the necesserity of the peaceful coexistence between NATO and Russia? If yes - then we should start talking about demilitarisation of Ukraine and about weapon control in Europe.

Your questions are not legitimate. You completely deny the sovereignty of Ukraine.
North Korea is a disaster of a nation. Totalitarian dictator. No freedom of speech. Communist style economy. No capitalism at all.

But

Even South Korea recognizes the sovereignty of North Korea. They can do as they please so long as they keep it inside of North Korean borders.

Sudan is another pariah state with legal slavery. But nobody invades Sudan unless they are trying to gain a hold of Sudanese resources. (And they have) The whole world recognizes their sovereignty.

And nowhere in the world do we allow the leader of one nation vote in the election of another. So we have to discount Russian voting in Ukranian's elections. Putin was literally casting votes in Ukranian's elections. It was blatant and obvious.

Ukraine has never been able to afford much of a military. It's never had the resources financially to do so being a cross between the a chemical garbage dump and agricultural center. Neither of these are well paying industries. Especially with the Oligarch system in place which had massive corruption schemes ongoing....nobody was going to invest in Ukraine. Until Zelenski came in....he actually reduced the volume of corruption. Not to say he completely cleaned it up....it became cultural from Russian influence for decades. That corruption was front and center in Trump's impeachment as well as Biden's son Hunter's influence peddling. (There are current rumors of Biden himself directly involved)

Even the residents of Donesk have said that the Ukranians were shelling the resident Russian dissidents and not Ukranians....they have never stopped and are grateful for the help.

Russia is out of friends on the world stage....just like North Korea.

There is a new military coalition being formed to defend against Chinese aggression. It includes Phillipines, Japan, South Korea, India and others. It's being modeled after NATO. Russia is not going to be invited and they have a lot to legitimately lose to China as they have seized Chinese lands and ports.
So....
Until you start speaking the TRUTH....you are at odds with the entire world.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Sure. There were no any Americans back in 1776, all of them were subjects of the British crown, weren't they? I believe that any government or any state must exists for the people, not the people must change themselves for the government. I believe in human rights. And when the "government" (especially if it's non-elected Junta) starts systematic abusing and violation of their God-given rights, including attacks on their language and faith - those people definitely have the right of rebellion.

So now you are going to paraphrase the Declaration of Independence in defense of Russian imperialist aggression?

 

[Silver Cat]

So now you are going to paraphrase the Declaration of Independence in defense of Russian imperialist aggression?

I just reminded you about our values.
From other hand - why not? From some points of view, the American Revolutionary War itself was a part of a bigger game, which included the competition between Russian and British Empires.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I just reminded you about our values.
From other hand - why not? From some points of view, the American Revolutionary War itself was a part of a bigger game, which included the competition between Russian and British Empires.

You are just posting nonsense now to try to be irritating.

 

[Silver Cat]

Wrong

Ukraine was a captive slave state of the Soviet Union

Any russians living there were interlopers who could have returned to russia if they wanted to be russians instead of Ukrainians

Hitler used the same lie as an excuse to invade and conquer Czechoslovakia in 1939

Actually, no. Ukraine was created by the Soviet Union as a part of Bolshevik's "woke" campaign , and there were no any "Ukrainians" in Russian Empire. And yes, those Russians, who decided to live in Russia, are returning there. They just took their land with them.

 

[Mac-7]

Actually, no. Ukraine was created by the Soviet Union as a part of Bolshevik's "woke" campaign , and there were no any "Ukrainians" in Russian Empire. And yes, those Russians, who decided to live in Russia, are returning there. They just took their land with them.

Sorry but rewriting history does not work with me

The Ukrainian people have been horribly abused by Moscow both under Stalin and now Putin

Russians have right to any part of Ukraine

 

[Silver Cat]

You are just posting nonsense now to try to be irritating.

Wow, now you say that the Declaration of independence is "nonsense". Is it a part of your woke ideology?

 

[Silver Cat]

Sorry but rewriting history does not work with me

The Ukrainian people have been horribly abused by Moscow both under Stalin and now Putin

Russians have right to any part of Ukraine

The Russians, especially those, who live in Ukraine and are abused, discriminated and attacked, have all their God-given rights to defend themselves from opressive Neo-Nazi Kievan Junta.

 

[Silver Cat]

Your questions are not legitimate. You completely deny the sovereignty of Ukraine.
North Korea is a disaster of a nation. Totalitarian dictator. No freedom of speech. Communist style economy. No capitalism at all.

But

Even South Korea recognizes the sovereignty of North Korea.

No. South Korea doesn't recognize the sovereignty of North Korea and vice versa.
The rest of your post is the sh-t, too.

 

[Mac-7]

The Russians, especially those, who live in Ukraine and are abused, discriminated and attacked, have all their God-given rights to defend themselves from opressive Neo-Nazi Kievan Junta.

Russians are abused in russia

And have been since the marxists took over in 1917

Annexing Ukraine will not change that

 

[Silver Cat]

Russians are abused in russia

At least they can speak their languages and to practice almost any religion they want. Their property can't be taken without a court decision and no one is going to kill them because of their language or faith there. And, of course, people in Crimea, Donbass, Kherson, Odessa can decide for themselves, what government they prefer - Kiev or Moscow.

 

[AZrailwhale]

I just reminded you about our values.
From other hand - why not? From some points of view, the American Revolutionary War itself was a part of a bigger game, which included the competition between Russian and British Empires.

Russia had little to nothing to do with the American Revolution. France was the major player with the Netherlands playing a supporting role.

 

[JohnDB]

Russia had little to nothing to do with the American Revolution. France was the major player with the Netherlands playing a supporting role.

In fact after becoming a nation we returned the favor to France with the Louisiana Purchase to help France in their ongoing war.