Roosevelt/WWII

[nomdeplume]

Oh? I believe YOU made the first claim, slick. Your source that they didn't know? Guess you already know what it is if you can't provide one.

Shall I set my tv on the history channel and ship it to you, or would prefer I fax you a couple of books?

News from the Washington File

Green Left - The Allies' role in the Holocaust

You can't disprove a negative, Sherlock. The first site is completely a red herring. Nothing is stated in there of what was known of any holocaust. You may think it does, but you are grasping at straws and want it to be so when it just isn't so. The second site is written by a zionist liar. He states that messages were intercepted via the broken code that detailed the holocaust. Complete bullshit. The entire record of those conversations has been scrubbed by the IHR and Nizkor constant debates on the holocaust.

So your REAL problem here is that Nazis were stopped from exterminating Jews and you are attempting to use the Cold War as smoke screen?

Dude, Nazi Germany was a problem. Russia was a problem LATER. Your argument defies history, logic and shows only that you have some major issues with Jews.

I don't know if you are a Jew or just a bgoted American, or a just bigot against Germans, because if you had any knowledge of the war, you would know that the Germans did not start killing Jews till near the end of the war. They had originally intended to deport them all out of their territories. We caused the holocaust by supporting Russia and the UK. The same bullshit that started WW2 in the first place. We caused WW2, and we caused the holocaust by getting involved in things that were not our business.

Don't give this crap about Russia not being major issue until later. Ya, FOR AMERICA, not for all the tens of millions of europeans butchered by the commies. The writing was on the wall, additionally, they are the most resource rich country on the planet! The Germans were completely reliant on imports to support itself. We had no allies next to Russia, yet we had tons of allies next to Germany, too.

 

[Gunny]

You can't disprove a negative, Sherlock. The first site is completely a red herring. Nothing is stated in there of what was known of any holocaust. You may think it does, but you are grasping at straws and want it to be so when it just isn't so. The second site is written by a zionist liar. He states that messages were intercepted via the broken code that detailed the holocaust. Complete bullshit. The entire record of those conversations has been scrubbed by the IHR and Nizkor constant debates on the holocaust.

Can you teach ME to dance like YOU? You did not make a negative statement. Roosevelt did not know of the Holocaust before the war ended. That is a positive statement of fact, implying that there is evidence to support it, and has nothing to do with proving a negative.

As far as the first link goes, it states clearly that should you read the documents disclosed; which you may feel free to do if you wish, there are parts that contain information as to what the US government/allies knew about the extermination camps.

O-o-o-o-h-h-h ...... and the second is written by a Zionist liar. GMAFB.

Feel free while you are proving your statement of fact in regard to knowing of the Holocaust until after the war to also provide the documentation that supports your assertions that whoever scrubbed whatever in regard to the second link.

Is this where I point out you aren't doing very well?

I don't know if you are a Jew or just a bgoted American, or a just bigot against Germans, because if you had any knowledge of the war, you would know that the Germans did not start killing Jews till near the end of the war. They had originally intended to deport them all out of their territories. We caused the holocaust by supporting Russia and the UK. The same bullshit that started WW2 in the first place. We caused WW2, and we caused the holocaust by getting involved in things that were not our business.

I happen to be neither a Jew, nor a bigotted American ... unless you consider the fact I am bigotted against ridiculous hatred steeped in bullshit so deep it's take week to dig to sunlight.

The Germans didn't start murdering Jews until near the end of war. We caused WWII. We caused the Holocaust.

I'll argue history any day with most anyone. But not you. That last paragraph is about as ignorant of actual history as I've seen.

Don't give this crap about Russia not being major issue until later. Ya, FOR AMERICA, not for all the tens of millions of europeans butchered by the commies. The writing was on the wall, additionally, they are the most resource rich country on the planet! The Germans were completely reliant on imports to support itself. We had no allies next to Russia, yet we had tons of allies next to Germany, too.

Geez ... you are a SERIOUS piece of work. I can honestly say I've never run into anyone that hated so much and is as screwy as you are. Where DO you get this crap from?

 

[nomdeplume]

You have completely devolved into a babbling clown. You don't debate because you know you are outclassed and outgunned, and, most improtantly, you don't what you are talking about. I "get this stuff" from studying history. I probably knew more by the time I was 12 then you will ever learn in your entire life. I'm Jewish by talmudic law, btw, and native american by american law. I don't harbor resentments toward anyone specifically, or anyone group, but when you say complete bullshit and you deny the obvious, well, I'm gonna crush you.

 

[Gunny]

You have completely devolved into a babbling clown. You don't debate because you know you are outclassed and outgunned, and, most improtantly, you don't what you are talking about. I "get this stuff" from studying history. I probably knew more by the time I was 12 then you will ever learn in your entire life. I'm Jewish by talmudic law, btw, and native american by american law. I don't harbor resentments toward anyone specifically, or anyone group, but when you say complete bullshit and you deny the obvious, well, I'm gonna crush you.

I'm going to tell you two things ...

One, if you wish to engage in a name-calling contest with me ... bring it. I'm about sick of you freakin' newbies acting like you've got some corner on nastiness.

Second, if your posts in this thread ate any indication of your studying history, then I suggest you demand a refund. You got screwed. Based on your "extensive knowledge," due to lifelong study, I'd say you were about 8 years old, if that. All I see coming out of you is agenda-driven, hatemongering and revisionist bullshit that sounds like some kind of warped SNL parody.

You want to hate Jews, be my guest. You have that right. But don't come on here trying to blow smoke up anyone's asses attempting to rewrite history to support your hatred.

You have demanded I support my argument which I have done. You have yet to support one word of yours. Either get hot on it, or get back in your corner where you can blindly lash out at anyone who thinks differently than you; which, I suspect is most anyone capable of rational thought.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There is evidence that the US and the British knew of the concentration camps around 1943, as I recall. The decision was made not to disclose the information because it was believed it would not help the war effort.

The Jews were being murdered BEFORE the US ever joined the war. Ohh and by the way? Hitler DECLARED WAR ON US. It was not just Jews though and it was not just in camps. In the Soviet Union slaughter was conducted on site by special units. Slaughter of Jews and other Undesirables.

More importantly is the simple fact EVERYONE knew before the war how Germany treated her undesirables. There was as I recall a ship full of Jews from Germany before the war that NO country would allow to land, including us.

 

[Gunny]

There is evidence that the US and the British knew of the concentration camps around 1943, as I recall. The decision was made not to disclose the information because it was believed it would not help the war effort.

The Jews were being murdered BEFORE the US ever joined the war. Ohh and by the way? Hitler DECLARED WAR ON US. It was not just Jews though and it was not just in camps. In the Soviet Union slaughter was conducted on site by special units. Slaughter of Jews and other Undesirables.

More importantly is the simple fact EVERYONE knew before the war how Germany treated her undesirables. There was as I recall a ship full of Jews from Germany before the war that NO country would allow to land, including us.

Exccellent point. Hitler did indeed declare war on the US the day after the US declared war on Japan, IIRC. But haven't you heard? "We" started it.

 

[editec]

Figures you would pick all the ones with socialist leanings. How about some respect for those who felt Americans should be able to stand for themselves and not suck off the government tit for their well being?

Which President do you have in mind whose policies actually lived up to that sentiment?

 

[editec]

Hey dumb fuck, no one knew anything about Jews being massacred wholesale until after the war. You might try to actually spend your time educating yourself on things before you offer your ignorant opinion of those things. OR you can go back to rep whoring and being an ignorant twat the rest of your miserable life.

Edit: btw, we did know BEFORE the war and DURING the war of the soviets genocide of Christians and Ukrainians, but the Jew-owned media in this country never felt like telling you ignorant hoi polloi.

You've just been misinformed about the history of when the world knew about the holocaust.

Yes, they knew.

On October 22, 1939, the Forward, a New York Yiddish daily with the largest circulation and an organ of Jewish labor, charged that the Nazis were not interested in founding a Jewish State, but a concentration camp, where Jews would be held under the poorest conditions and suffer great deprivation. (22) The American Jewish Committee declared that "If this fantastic plan is carried out, it would mean that 2,000,000 Jews now in Germany or in territories under German domination, would be confined in what would be a large concentration camp, where they would be doomed to degradation, misery and death." (23)

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In an editorial on January 24, 1940, the New York Times explained it had been reluctant to report atrocity stories coming out of Poland because "All we have heard until now have been unofficial accounts of such horrors that we chose to disbelieve them as exaggerated."(32) But the Times acknowledged it could no longer ignore these accounts because the Vatican radio station had broadcast that it had been receiving almost daily reports from Warsaw, Krakow, Pomerania, Poznan, and Silesia that told of "destitution, destruction and infamy of every description." (33) The Vatican "has spoken with authority that cannot be questioned; and has confirmed the worst intimations of terror which comes out of the Polish darkness," the Times reported. (34) Jews and Poles were being moved into hermetically sealed ghettos that were inadequate to sustain the millions destined to live there. (35)[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Throughout 1941, the condition of European Jews continued to deteriorate. The Jewish press provided almost daily accounts of the confiscation of Jewish property, (53) expulsions, deportations,(54) mass arrests, forced labor, wanton executions (55) and brutal conditions in the Jewish ghettos. (56) When members of the Iron Guard, a Romanian fascist and antisemitic movement, attempted to overthrow General Ian Antonescu in Romania in January 1941, the Jewish press published a graphic eyewitness account of how Jews were brutalized and killed.(57) The Times, on January 26, 1941, published a report provided by the American Friends Service Committee about the horrible plight of the Jews in the Gurs, one the largest concentration camps in France.(58) Perhaps one of the most import revelations of the period appeared on May 5, 1941 in The New Republic, a liberal weekly magazine, when it acknowledged that an unnamed dignitary of the Catholic Church revealed that "85,000 blind, incurably ill or aged Germans were put to death by the Gestapo in September, October and November of 1940." (59) William Shirer, the American CBS radio correspondent described these killings in his book Berlin Diary. On July 18, the American Hebrew provided additional details about the "mercy killings" and quoted the report as having concluded, "these reports... bear further proof as to the menace Nazism constitutes to the entire world, including the followers of Nazism." (60)[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Throughout the first six months of 1942 reports of the systematic slaughter of the Jews on the Russian front continued to be widely reported in the Jewish press. There were many eyewitness accounts of mass executions from Russian, Jewish Polish and Hungarian sources as well as from neutral diplomats. (65) On March 25, a report by a Bavarian Catholic priest estimated the Nazis had gassed 10,000 Dutch Jews in poison gas experiments at the Mathausen concentration camp in Austria. On April 5 the Dutch Government-in-exile confirmed this report; on June 8, an American diplomat confirmed it. (66)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Other dispatches told of deportation of tens of thousands of Jews to concentration camps, to forced labor and to "unknown destinations," (67) of the Berlin order to execute typhus-stricken Jews, (68) of appeals for help, (69) and of the thousands of Jews who had died of starvation and froze to death in the ghettos. (70) One of the most dramatic of these accounts came from S. Bertrand Jacobson, a JDC a representative in Eastern Europe who had returned to New York. He reported that "240,000 Jews who had been deported from Germany and all parts of Central Europe to the German-held Ukraine were murdered by the Gestapo, according to the testimony of Hungarian soldiers returning from the eastern front." One Hungarian soldier said that at one great tract of land near Kiev, he saw the ground "move in waves." The Germans had buried the Jews even before they were dead. Jacobson asserted that the Nazis had one solution to the Jewish question'mdash;extermination and destruction, which is being carried out in every country under German control. In Yugoslavia, the Jewish population had been reduced from 68,000 before the Nazi invasion on April 6, 1941 to a maximum of 25,000. The Jews in Belgrade were " rounded up and taken in trucks, a hundred at a time, to nearby forests and executed."(71)[/FONT]
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The world witnessed the event as the holcaust unfolded.

They knew of the original slughters by soldiers as the German's invaded Poland, and they knew about the ghettos, they they knew about the camps, and then they knew about the gas chambers, too.

Long long before the invasion of Europe, the world knew what was going on.

There is no doubt about this.

The historica record of what we knew and when we knew it is quite clear.



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[AtlasShrieked]

Figures you would pick all the ones with socialist leanings. How about some respect for those who felt Americans should be able to stand for themselves and not suck off the government tit for their well being?

you mean all those barons of the industrial revolution who sucked off the tits of government contracts?

maybe the billionaires like Ross Perot who's ships were tied up at the piers marked: government $$$$$$?

 

[nomdeplume]

Exccellent point. Hitler did indeed declare war on the US the day after the US declared war on Japan, IIRC. But haven't you heard? "We" started it.

We caused world war 2. Even the most novice historian knows as much. We casued the holocasut, too.

Just because you ignorant morons here never knew these facts, don't kill the messenger. You ever heard of the madagascar plan? It would have went through had we not been bankrolling, as well as using other means of supporting, all of Germany's enemies by guess who? The USA.

 

[Annie]

Other than Pat Buchanan, what sources are you using? BTW, he isn't close to being any kind of historian, not a novice or master.

 

[nomdeplume]

Other than Pat Buchanan, what sources are you using? BTW, he isn't close to being any kind of historian, not a novice or master.

I've seen Pat Buchanan on TV maybe 30-50 times, none of which did he detail anything about WW2 or WW1. Other than that, I have no idea of anything he has to say. I haven't even read anything from him, op-eds or otherwise.

Only reason WW2 started was because of the way WW1 ended, when america got involved in a war they had no business being in. Well, that's not entirely true. There was one other reason other than that which allowed WW2 to start, and that was the brutal and blood-stained creation of the communist state of the USSR, the most populous and resource rich european country. Desperate times require desperate measures.

 

[BrianH]

Tone down the language please.

I disagree. England knew, and they told Roosevelt before even Operation Overlord took place. See my previous post.

Of Course we knew. We knew and did nothing militarily. We continued to supply the Allies and only got involved when we were attacked...which is fine with me. What alot of people didn't realize, is that Americans hated Jews just as much as Germans did. I've attended presentations by Jewish scholars that retold their stories of coming to America during the war. All of them came here and spoke of discrimination from Americans. I think American British forces (from what I've read) found out through various types of intelligence. Underground operatives, aerial photographs, and the enigma machines. The problem was that many concentration camps were in Poland and deep into Germany...well out of effective range to liberate early in the war. Even so, they really couldn't just side-step around the German Army to liberate these camps.

 

[Annie]

I've seen Pat Buchanan on TV maybe 30-50 times, none of which did he detail anything about WW2 or WW1. Other than that, I have no idea of anything he has to say. I haven't even read anything from him, op-eds or otherwise.

Only reason WW2 started was because of the way WW1 ended, when america got involved in a war they had no business being in. Well, that's not entirely true. There was one other reason other than that which allowed WW2 to start, and that was the brutal and blood-stained creation of the communist state of the USSR, the most populous and resource rich european country. Desperate times require desperate measures.

Funny but every issue you've brought up, can be found by googling <Buchanan and the term> ie., Madagascar Buchanan

Here's a real historian's response to Buchanan's rantings:

VDH's Private Papers:atrick J. Buchanan

 

[jillian]

Funny but every issue you've brought up, can be found by googling <Buchanan and the term> ie., Madagascar Buchanan

Here's a real historians response to Buchanan's rantings:

VDH's Private Papers:atrick J. Buchanan

Everyone knows Buchanan's an isolationist and a revisionist when it comes to WWII history. I won't go into the reasons for that, but even he laughed at the thought that it was ever possible for a bunch of Jews in Boca Raton, FL to vote for him in 2000.

But reliance on that type of revisionist trash does prove Goebbel's theory that a lie repeated often enough can be proffered as truth.

 

[Annie]

Everyone knows Buchanan's an isolationist and a revisionist when it comes to WWII history. I won't go into the reasons for that, but even he laughed at the thought that it was ever possible for a bunch of Jews in Boca Raton, FL to vote for him in 2000.

But reliance on that type of revisionist trash does prove Goebbel's theory that a lie repeated often enough can be proffered as truth.

Yep, Buchanan is dangerous, always has been.

 

[jillian]

Yep, Buchanan is dangerous, always has been.

Problem with Buchanan is that he's also a brilliant political operative. Has an instinctive sense of where the jugular is.

But yeah, dangerous as all getout.

He was also one of the first people to whine about the Supreme Court.... so yes, very dangerous.

 

[Annie]

Problem with Buchanan is that he's also a brilliant political operative. Has an instinctive sense of where the jugular is.

But yeah, dangerous as all getout.

He was also one of the first people to whine about the Supreme Court.... so yes, very dangerous.

Jillian, we at least partially agree.

Did you read this?

The Volokh Conspiracy - -

 

[jillian]

Jillian, we at least partially agree.

Did you read this?

The Volokh Conspiracy - -

Now, Kathianne, you have to know by now how little I think of Volokh. BTW, his comparison of Breyer's decisions in the two cases.... absurd. They're apples and oranges.

His analysis doesn't impress me.... come to think of it, I can't really remember when it did, though I might have agreed with him once.

 

[Annie]

Now, Kathianne, you have to know by now how little I think of Volokh. BTW, his comparison of Breyer's decisions in the two cases.... absurd. They're apples and oranges.

His analysis doesn't impress me.... come to think of it, I can't really remember when it did, though I might have agreed with him once.

That was Orin Kerr.

How about Randy Barnett?

News Flash: The Constitution Means What It Says - WSJ.com