Roosevelt/WWII

[nomdeplume]

While I agree with your discontent of the subject, I do not beileve that this is "being hidden"...considering any joe blow (not meaning you) can google it on the internet.

It's much more than just being "hidden". Why did it happen to begin with, forget the interment itself. Why hold the Germans another year? Why did the Germans and italians get no apology or compensation?

Getting back to history books:
Lack of space/time, really? So why did most of them I read talk at length about the Buffalo soldiers?(about 75% of them did) And in flattering terms no less. My native american relatives remember well the Buffalo soldiers. Their favorite activity was genocide, either explicitly by raiding camps of women and children when the braves were away or implicitly by slaughtering the buffalo, which was the REAL reason they got the name "buffalo soldier". According to the books the title "buffalo soldier" was an honorable title given to them because the native americans being butchered by them thought they were really noble warriors. ROFLMFAO. Orwell is laughing in his fucking grave. Instead of informing the reader of the muderous fiends that they actually were, they are branded as "heroes". However, they take a much more critical, negative, and condescending look at white soldiers that engaged in the same behaviors in the American West. The Buffalo soldiers were actually the worst there was in the American West, butchers, yet history books retell them as heroes. Why? Because they are black. Why were the others more critically treated? Because they happened to be white.

IT's a bullshit marxist agenda, mixed with a lot of Jew-bias. Sometimes its hard to tell the two apart, really. Minorities good, whitey bad. Japenese good, Germans bad. Pretty tough to call america a racist piece of shit country that interned some japenese only because of a racist grudge against the "yellow peril" when they interned a bunch of Germans and Italians, too, and treated them even much more shitty. Right? So we better not include that.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Internment of German Americans in the United States during World War II

Did I also mention we were even shipping Germans americans BACK TO GERMANY to be blown up in war? Your country, your history, hidden from you.

But don't ask question. Watch american idol, drink some pepsi, listen to cRAP music and be happy.

Your link has this in it.... for one..

Dec. 11, 1941 US declares war on Germany and Italy.

no mention what so ever that Germany Declared war on the US and ours was just in response to theirs. In fact there is some doubt that we would have declared war on Germany right away without Germany doing us the favor of solving that political problem.

Also your site says 11000 interned, there was a hell of a lot more then 11000 American German citizens and aliens in the US at the time. I suggest the Government had a reason for the internments other than " those damn Germans"

But do keep making that claim.

 

[nomdeplume]

Your link has this in it.... for one..



no mention what so ever that Germany Declared war on the US and ours was just in response to theirs. In fact there is some doubt that we would have declared war on Germany right away without Germany doing us the favor of solving that political problem.

Also your site says 11000 interned, there was a hell of a lot more then 11000 American German citizens and aliens in the US at the time. I suggest the Government had a reason for the internments other than " those damn Germans"

But do keep making that claim.

Ya they are gonna intern two-thirds the fucking white population, three fourths if you count italians too. You = moron. Ya "they had their reaosn". Uhuh. And Nazis had their reasons for killing Jews too. Your pure white america not looking so prirtine now, eh? a little crack in the bullshit veneer you built around your idea of America. Again, don't fucking bitch at the messenger who has taken his time to dispel a tiny bit of your ignorance.

 

[BrianH]

It's much more than just being "hidden". Why did it happen to begin with, forget the interment itself. Why hold the Germans another year? Why did the Germans and italians get no apology or compensation?

Getting back to history books:
Lack of space/time, really? So why did most of them I read talk at length about the Buffalo soldiers?(about 75% of them did) And in flattering terms no less. My native american relatives remember well the Buffalo soldiers. Their favorite activity was genocide, either explicitly by raiding camps of women and children when the braves were away or implicitly by slaughtering the buffalo, which was the REAL reason they got the name "buffalo soldier". According to the books the title "buffalo soldier" was an honorable title given to them because the native americans being butchered by them thought they were really noble warriors. ROFLMFAO. Orwell is laughing in his fucking grave. Instead of informing the reader of the muderous fiends that they actually were, they are branded as "heroes". However, they take a much more critical, negative, and condescending look at white soldiers that engaged in the same behaviors in the American West. The Buffalo soldiers were actually the worst there was in the American West, butchers, yet history books retell them as heroes. Why? Because they are black. Why were the others more critically treated? Because they happened to be white.

IT's a bullshit marxist agenda, mixed with a lot of Jew-bias. Sometimes its hard to tell the two apart, really. Minorities good, whitey bad. Japenese good, Germans bad. Pretty tough to call america a racist piece of shit country that interned some japenese only because of a racist grudge against the "yellow peril" when they interned a bunch of Germans and Italians, too, and treated them even much more shitty. Right? So we better not include that.

You done yet? You ready to have a decent discussion? Or apparently you missed the beginning of my other post that said I agree with you.

As far as teaching it, it is a time issue. And if you expect teachers to teach it with the over-exaggerated emotion and biased that you have, expect alot of angry parents. Also, it doesn't matter what the frickin textbook says, it doesn't mean that teacher spends 75% of their lesson talking about the buffalo soldiers. If you knew anything about teaching kids, is that they don't remember crap if it's not interesting to them. There is no possible way for you to teach all of the crap that you mentioned (and make it interesting), along with current curriculum to students and actually expect them to learn it. There's a little place you can go to after high school called COLLEGE and you can learn things that you mention. There is also this nice digital world called the internet where you can find information like this. What needs to be done is teaching students to look this stuff up. If you're really concerned about what students are not learning, then get into education and start revising curriculum. Bitching about it solves nothing.

 

[editec]

Either you ARE Pat Buchanan or you're channeling him.

I think nondeplume is absolutely right about this fact.

WWII was the second round of the same damned war that was pretty much inevitable because the treaty of Versaille made a viable Germany pretty much impossible.

Faced with a completely nonfuctioning society or a fascist society that seemed to work (unless you were a Jew a Roma, a homosexual, a trade unionist or a socialist, of course) the average German was willing to accept anyone who could get them off the bread lines.

The USA was not responsible for the antimosity of the German people toward the English and Frence, but the argument can and has been made that the antimosity of Japan was exacerbated by our trade policies toward Japan.

I personally think that argument is a tad overstated, but there is some legitimacy in it.

Of course, the fact that the Japanese were creating an empire in Korea and China is the countervailing argument which I think really does justify our policies at the time, too.

 

[Gunny]

I'm getting really tired of having to explain this shit to you like you are a two year old, just because you want to stay drunk on your bigoted jingoism of America being able to do no wrong.

The only reason Germany lost WW1 is because of our support, which first was clandestine and despicable. We were supporting britian and helping blockade goods from going into Germany. They were still winning. Then we entered the war ourselves, and then was just too much fire power to combat. We had no good reason to get into WW1, but we did. At first cowardly and clandestinely, and then totally. If Germany would have won WW1, WW2 would have never happened. There also would not have been deep resentment enough for the Jews that a group like the Nazis could ever bribe and kill to get themselves into power.

Pretty fucking simple, even for an apparent simpleton.

Listen up, shit for brains ... your fucking math is about as logical as 1+1=3. It doesn't matter a damn WHY Germany lost WWI, and Germanw was NOT winning. The war was a stalemate until we entered and broke it.

Try doing a little research like looking up fascism in the dictionary? Surely you know what THAT is? Fascism requires and extreme belief and a scapegoat. The Jews were it. The Nazis got into power by blaming all their ills on the Treaty of Versailles and the Jews and the ineffectualness of the Weimar Republic.

That you continue to make disparaging statements regarding our supporting the Nations that stood against Germany prety much sums it up for you. "If we had let Germany win WWI WWII would never have happened?" What kind of stupid, moronic, warped thinking is THAT? I guess you gave up your milk money to the bully in school without a fight every fucking day huh?

The cowardly part here is coming from between your ears, and speaking of simpletons ... that's about what your argument implies of you. There were FAR more factors that weighed into the causes of WWII than just the outcome of WWI. The entire world's at war and you think we should either stuff our heads up our asses and pretend it's not, or side with the fucking bad guys. Just brilliant.

I believe you have studied history for years. It would take that long to convolute the truth into what you are trying to sell.

 

[nomdeplume]

I don't care what you think Gunny-boy. You are a typical ignorant american, drunk on jingoism and the notion this country can and has done no wrong.

 

[Gunny]

I think nondeplume is absolutely right about this fact.

WWII was the second round of the same damned war that was pretty much inevitable because the treaty of Versaille made a viable Germany pretty much impossible.

Faced with a completely nonfuctioning society or a fascist society that seemed to work (unless you were a Jew a Roma, a homosexual, a trade unionist or a socialist, of course) the average German was willing to accept anyone who could get them off the bread lines.

The USA was not responsible for the antimosity of the German people toward the English and Frence, but the argument can and has been made that the antimosity of Japan was exacerbated by our trade policies toward Japan.

I personally think that argument is a tad overstated, but there is some legitimacy in it.

Of course, the fact that the Japanese were creating an empire in Korea and China is the countervailing argument which I think really does justify our policies at the time, too.

I don't think anyone is denying that WWI was a factor in the causes of WWII. However, the argument being made is it was "the" cause. WWI escalated into a world war because of a bunch of ignorant mutual defense treaties. WWII was not a result of that; rather, one of the factors that played into Hitler's rise to power was the dissatisfaction of the outcome of WWI.

Some of our policies toward other countries were also factors, but the fact remains, we did not enter WWII until we were attacked on our own soil by another nation's military, and we did not declare war in Europe until after Htiler declared war on the US. Two undeniable facts nomdeplume is trying to twist onto the US.

If we refused to trade with Japan because of its naked aggression, tough for them. If we chose to support UK against a megalomaniacal fascist dictator, tough for him. The fact still remains we did not take an active military role in the war until the US was attacked.

 

[BrianH]

I don't think anyone is denying that WWI was a factor in the causes of WWII. However, the argument being made is it was "the" cause. WWI escalated into a world war because of a bunch of ignorant mutual defense treaties. WWII was not a result of that; rather, one of the factors that played into Hitler's rise to power was the dissatisfaction of the outcome of WWI.

Some of our policies toward other countries were also factors, but the fact remains, we did not enter WWII until we were attacked on our own soil by another nation's military, and we did not declare war in Europe until after Htiler declared war on the US. Two undeniable facts nomdeplume is trying to twist onto the US.

If we refused to trade with Japan because of its naked aggression, tough for them. If we chose to support UK against a megalomaniacal fascist dictator, tough for him. The fact still remains we did not take an active military role in the war until the US was attacked.

Exactly, not to mention the failure of Democracy in the eyes of the Germans. The German people experienced an intense depression after WWI that gave rise to a lack of confidence in Democracy. Sure, the reprecussions of WWI had it's toll as well as the stipulations of the Treaty of Versailles, but to assume that the U.S. or WWI in general, is responsible for WWII is insane and illogical. If any complaint could be made, it's that the French and British were afraid (which I can understand) to engage in another world war and refused to call Hitler on his defiance of the Treaty. There were many reasons for the cause of World War II. The extreme devaluation of German currency was also a factor that lead to the eventual leadership of Hitler. Hitler gave the German people hope for a new Germany. And he damn near would have done so had he not had aspirations to take-over the world. By the time they realized what he was doing, it was too late to object. The other European powers sat on their fannies while Hitler amassed an army over the agreed numbers, and then took the Rhineland.

 

[Doug]

Do not forget that in free elections, the Nazis never got more than 40% of the vote, and that in extremely bad economic conditions.

They were helped by the Communists, who had enough members in parliament to make the country ungovernable. Between them, the two totalitarian parties destroyed democracy in Germany.

But the German democrats were defeated. The nature of their ultra-democratic parliamentary system, which allowed any small group to be represented, was a major factor.

Then, the reluctance of the British and French to use military force to destabilize the Hitler government, which could have been done at several times in the 30s, guaranteed that eventually we would have a major war.

Although FDR deserves a lot of credit for dragging a reluctant America into war, by provoking the Japanese to attack us, the real hero is Harry Truman, for his Marshall Plan. Without that, we may have had the Red Army on the English Channel.

 

[editec]

While I agree with your discontent of the subject, I do not beileve that this is "being hidden"...considering any joe blow (not meaning you) can google it on the internet. The reason you haven't found it in school history books is because unfortunately, history is the most informative subject there is. And also unfortunately, the people who write curriculum have to wade through years of potential information and eventually settle on the most logical to teach students. It is already difficult for history teachers to cramm 250 years of American history into 187 days. World History teachers have it the worst, by attempting to cram millions of years into 187 days. I believe that teacher should mention Italian and German internment camps while teaching about Japanese Internment camps, but to dedicate an entire week to it would be asking a little too much, given time limits. There is however, a recent push for teachers to not just give students information and expect them to learn it, but teach them to do what we all (on this message board) do. We use the internet and other sources to find out information. One of my goals as a teacher is to attempt to delve deeper into subject matter...

Spot on.

There's a LOT of history and a limited amount of time to teach it.

Not that the history typically taught doesn't come with its own biases, but given the impossbile task that teaching history actually is, such biased history is inevitable.

Once again, I find this Jew baiting nonsense troubling. Such undifferentiated anti-Semitism provides the proIsraeli lobby with plenty of ammunition to make it easy to attack anyone who actually questions America's policies regarding Israel.

I have already been accused of being an antisemite here at least twice and I think this NAZI propaganda that is being foisted off as history is counterproductive to us ever having rational discussions about these issues.

So let me recap:

The NAZI propaganda is gay.

The Zionist attacks on anyone asking serious questions about AMERICAN POLICIES is also gay.

Perhaps you neo NAZIs and AMERICAN ZIONIST ought to get a room?

You're obviously cut off the same gay bolt of ignorance.

I'd really appreciate it, and I am pretty certain I can't be the only person who tires of your childish crap.

 

[nomdeplume]

Haha. Speak of the devil. Tomorrow, PBS is doing a new and more critical documentary about the war, maybe some of the ignorant twats around here might take a look. The zionist-proxy station, FOX Jews, already has its backed raised about it. They are calling it "revisionist" history.

 

[BrianH]

Haha. Speak of the devil. PBS is doing a new and more critical documentary tomorrow about the war, maybe some of the ignorant twats around here might take a look. The zionist-proxy station, FOX Jews, already has its backed raised about it. They are calling it "revisionist" history.

Yes, but it does not completely change historical events as you suggest. The big issue about the PBS program is saying that Allied forces were as bad as Nazis. The factual information that U.S. and allied forces were also merciless and committed crimes in the field is not hidden from anyone. This history has not been revised, but merely put on a PBS show. Any dimwit can google this information on the internet. I agree with many things you post, but this is going a little extreme. And let me tell you, even PBS is concerned with ratings...and if naming a show "revisionist history" will do it, then that's what they are going to do. This concept is is covered in brief in many WWII films. Band of Brothers shows this aspect in the first couple of episodes with U.S. troops executing German prisoners. Saving Private Ryan also shows this type of behavior at the beginning when the Germans are surrendering and the a soldier shoots them with their hand raised. IT also portrays this later in the film...there is no shortage of information that some---but not all---allied troops acted just as merciless. But IMO, you must fight fire with fire. THe Japanese would mutilate you, and the Germans would torture you mercilessly for information. They were troubled times in the world. I often look at those days and it makes me feel better about today...I don't gripes as much.

 

[nomdeplume]

Fox is labeling it "revisionist", not PBS.

They have been trying to pervert the word for decades now after notable historians started question various aspects of the Holocaust.

 

[editec]

The USA was NOT responsible for the conditions in Germany which lead to fascism and Hitler.

In fact of all the allied leaders, it was WILSON who did more to make the Treaty of Versaille just.

But WILSON was ill, and what more, since America did not join the League of Nations, France ran roughshod over Germany thus creating conditions which assured that the Germans would rise back up and stike again.

Let me repeat that...

AMERICAN IS THE LEAST RESPONSIBLE OF ANY ALLIED GOVERMENT FOR THE SECOND WORLD WAR.

Historically speaking, we're often the good guys, you know.

Not recently, but once upon a time this nation stood for something more than unbridled capitalism and rampant materialism.

 

[BrianH]

Fox is labeling it "revisionist", not PBS.

They have been trying to pervert the word for decades now after notable historians started question various aspects of the Holocaust.

It just amazes me that anyone is suprised or upset about this information. It's all out there, and I only say this because I've known many of the things you talk about, and if I can find it, anyone can. But like I said before, there is not enough time in 187 days to teach the reasons, ideals, problems, statistics, results of WWII to throw in much of this other information. Now, I'd be totally against teaching kids that the U.S. was this shining knight in the world and that they won WWII by themselves and that everyone else is bad. As long as teachers are not lying to their students, there's no harm done. STudents need to learn to get out and research this stuff like they look up bum-fights on youtube....

 

[nomdeplume]

It just amazes me that anyone is suprised or upset about this information. It's all out there, and I only say this because I've known many of the things you talk about, and if I can find it, anyone can. But like I said before, there is not enough time in 187 days to teach the reasons, ideals, problems, statistics, results of WWII to throw in much of this other information. Now, I'd be totally against teaching kids that the U.S. was this shining knight in the world and that they won WWII by themselves and that everyone else is bad. As long as teachers are not lying to their students, there's no harm done. STudents need to learn to get out and research this stuff like they look up bum-fights on youtube....

Why would someone search for something when they don't even know it exists/existed?

Did you know that there is an unexplained gravitational pull towards the center of this solar system? It's called the pioneer anomaly. I suspect maybe .0001% of people know of it. And why would they? You are basically asking that everyone should know everything. That would be nice, but it's more than a little naive. You also don't seem to realize many people do not even have 24-7 access to the internet, and that any reasonable person shouldn't believe most of what they read on the internet anyway. In short, I find your "but people can find it online" idea entirely bogus and largely a copout.

 

[nomdeplume]

AMERICAN IS THE LEAST RESPONSIBLE OF ANY ALLIED GOVERMENT FOR THE SECOND WORLD WAR.
.

We had no reason to even get into that fucking colonial war of jingoistic bullshit idiotic treaties. That war being WW1. We should not have been helping Britain, not taken any sides, and we never should have entered into the war. The French Russian and British all got their asses kicked fair and square by the Germans/Austrians. Then we had to get invovled, completely altering who were the victors in the wars end.

That's the rub, if you missed it. At least the British, French, and Russians all had legitimate reason to get into the war.

 

[BrianH]

Why would someone search for something when they don't even know it exists/existed?

Did you know that there is an unexplained gravitational pull towards the center of this solar system? It's called the pioneer anomaly. I suspect maybe .0001% of people know of it. And why would they? You are basically asking that everyone should know everything. That would be nice, but it's more than a little naive. You also don't seem to realize many people do not even have 24-7 access to the internet, and that any reasonable person shouldn't believe most of what they read on the internet anyway. In short, I find your "but people can find it online" idea entirely bogus and largely a copout.

My idea is certainly more reasonable than your idea that you can cram all of this information into 187 days and expect people to remember or learn it. It shows you don't have a clue about how "learning" occurs. Sure, you can learn something yourself, but teaching someone (20 kids-50 min. per day) is a different story. I find out stuff that I didn't know existed every day...and it's not just from the internet. There's TV, books, Newspapers, magezines, etc... The information is out there, if I googled pioneer anomaly, I'm sure I'd find something. And it's pretty common knowledge that the sun has a gravitational pull on the rest of our solar system, which is why we rotate around it. And keep in mind, it is an "anomaly" it could also be small failures in space-craft. MOst if not all students are taught in the 3rd grade that the Sun has a (center of OUR solar system) has a gravitational pull on everything else. Since you're a science fan, do you think it would be possible to teach students in 187 every single scientific fact, theory, experiment, conclusion, scientist in the world? Cudos if you could, but I'm 100% certain that you couldn't. World History goes back millions of years dude, and you expect to cover every single little detail in 6-7 months...

Pioneer anomaly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[BrianH]

We had no reason to even get into that fucking colonial war of jingoistic bullshit idiotic treaties. That war being WW1. We should not have been helping Britain, not taken any sides, and we never should have entered into the war. The French Russian and British all got their asses kicked fair and square by the Germans/Austrians. Then we had to get invovled, completely altering who were the victors in the wars end.

That's the rub, if you missed it. At least the British, French, and Russians all had legitimate reason to get into the war.

This is a retarded opinion. If the U.S. had not entered the war, the war would have lasted ALOT longer than it did and would have had worse economic affects. THe British, French and Russians did not get there asses kicked, there was a STALEMATE, which means that no one was getting anywhere, they were equally kicking ass. Many countries went into depression after the 4 year war...could you imagine the effect of a longer one of that magnitude? And don't forget, U.S. ships were being sunk by German subs, and did you forget the Zimmerman Telegram? The nice little telegram to Mexico from Germany, encouraging them to join the Central POwers and invade the U.S.? Germany was about to begin UNRESTRICTED submarine warfare in Atlantic Waters. So they sent a telegram to the Germany ambassador in Mexico. The telegram stated that if it looked like the U.S. was going to enter the war (due to the sinking of U.S. ships) then the ambassador should approach the Mexican gov. for alliance and in return Germany would make sure that Mexico would retain it's land that was taken in the Mexican-American War. There's more to it than this, "Well the U.S. should have stayed neutral" bull crap. Even if the U.S. had not gotten involved, there would have been a second World War eventually.