Ron Paul from a liberal perspective.

[Valox]

I'll tell you what Aquathena.... If Libertarianism wouldn't be such a hard ass when it comes to the poor and the elderly, I'd probably vote for Paul. But I am sorry.... I am not going to let fellow Americans live a life of shit just because SOME people hate the government and taxation.

These are lies. SS and Medicare would not be abolished under Paul. However, liberals like to repeat these lies while they cut billions in medicare while spending millions to build a new ghost prison over in the ME.

Yeah.... well, they didn't cut billions from medicare because what the right wing idiots spout off as "cutting" is actually covered under the new health care plane.... you know.... that donut hole that Medicare part D didn't cover?

Obama has been pushing hard for medicare cuts. Take your head out of your ass and live in reality.

 

[Paulie]

I'll tell you what Aquathena.... If Libertarianism wouldn't be such a hard ass when it comes to the poor and the elderly, I'd probably vote for Paul. But I am sorry.... I am not going to let fellow Americans live a life of shit just because SOME people hate the government and taxation.

Hard on the poor and elderly?

Because we want people to learn from an early age that they should be responsible for their futures and work hard to achieve prosperity?

There are more than enough stories throughout the history of this country where someone came from absolutely NOTHING and became self made.

You remove a lot of the incentive to work hard when you come up with every way possible for those that have, to provide for those that don't.

It's not greed. Not even close.

 

[Steelplate]

I'll tell you what Aquathena.... If Libertarianism wouldn't be such a hard ass when it comes to the poor and the elderly, I'd probably vote for Paul. But I am sorry.... I am not going to let fellow Americans live a life of shit just because SOME people hate the government and taxation.

Hard on the poor and elderly?

Because we want people to learn from an early age that they should be responsible for their futures and work hard to achieve prosperity?

There are more than enough stories throughout the history of this country where someone came from absolutely NOTHING and became self made.

You remove a lot of the incentive to work hard when you come up with every way possible for those that have, to provide for those that don't.

It's not greed. Not even close.

Fuck you... you want people to be responsible then allow the wealthy to cut their legs out from under them at every opportunity... then tell them to blame themselves for their predicaments. That's not teaching responsibility... that's saying "fuck you".

 

[DaGoose]

Really? Historical fact?

If we disbanded our armed forces completely we would never wage war. Of course everyone else and his brother would be walking over our corpses on the way to occupy Washington but the Left doesn't care about that.

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

I didn't say that one shouldn't wage war, I said that government financing and government war-making have been intimately related historically. In brief:

During 1861, the opening year of the American Civil War, the expenses incurred by the Union Government far outstripped its limited revenues from taxation, and borrowing was the main vehicle for financing the war. (United States Note - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

The budgetary expenses for the years 1941-1945 amounted to some $317 billion, of which $281 billion was directly related to the war effort; expenditures climbed from $9.6 billion in fiscal 1940 to nearly $100 billion in 1945. Of these outlays some 45 percent was covered by taxes and other non-borrowing sources. The deficit had to be covered by selling bonds.
(Series E bond - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Wars cost money. A blinding flash of the obvious.
"Unlimited funds are the sinews of war." -Cicero.
Unfortunately the Democrats are bent on reducing the wealth of this country, and therefore our ability to wage war.

And unforunately the GOP is bent on destroying the middle class thus ensuring that the only way to get anywhere is to join the military. That way they can populate their armies and invade and occupy other nations that pose no threat to anyone.

.

 

[DaGoose]

Liberals hate honesty, transparency, and peace. That is why they will vote for Obama.

How anyone can post that after their conservative dream President, George W Bush, showed us what REAL conservatives represent is beyond me.

Honesty? Bush?

Transparency? Bush?

Peace? Bush?

Don't make me fucking laugh.

Now....after the conservatives undying support for Bush please explain again how they believe in honesty, transparency, and peace.

.

 

[The Rabbi]

Liberals hate honesty, transparency, and peace. That is why they will vote for Obama.

How anyone can post that after their conservative dream President, George W Bush, showed us what REAL conservatives represent is beyond me.

Honesty? Bush?

Transparency? Bush?

Peace? Bush?

Don't make me fucking laugh.

Now....after the conservatives undying support for Bush please explain again how they believe in honesty, transparency, and peace.

.

Bush wasn't a conservative. Name one program he eliminated.

 

[DaGoose]

Liberals hate honesty, transparency, and peace. That is why they will vote for Obama.

How anyone can post that after their conservative dream President, George W Bush, showed us what REAL conservatives represent is beyond me.

Honesty? Bush?

Transparency? Bush?

Peace? Bush?

Don't make me fucking laugh.

Now....after the conservatives undying support for Bush please explain again how they believe in honesty, transparency, and peace.

.

Bush wasn't a conservative. Name one program he eliminated.

Soooo......is that how you measure conservatism? You're probably not old enough to remember how overjoyed the "ultra-right" was to see the REAL conservative Bush defeat the RINO McCain in their primary fight.

No, sorry. Bush was and is considered a conservative. You guys wanted him and now you're stuck with him.

 

[The Rabbi]

How anyone can post that after their conservative dream President, George W Bush, showed us what REAL conservatives represent is beyond me.

Honesty? Bush?

Transparency? Bush?

Peace? Bush?

Don't make me fucking laugh.

Now....after the conservatives undying support for Bush please explain again how they believe in honesty, transparency, and peace.

.

Bush wasn't a conservative. Name one program he eliminated.

Soooo......is that how you measure conservatism? You're probably not old enough to remember how overjoyed the "ultra-right" was to see the REAL conservative Bush defeat the RINO McCain in their primary fight.

No, sorry. Bush was and is considered a conservative. You guys wanted him and now you're stuck with him.

OK, so you can't name a single program he eliminated.
Can you name some new programs he started?
Bush is a conservative like Nixon was a conservative. What we want is someone like Reagan was a conservative.

 

[Mr.Nick]

This is really good read.

Matt Stoller: Why Ron Paul Challenges Liberals « naked capitalism

I found this really interesting in the way it shows how Paul operates so much differently that most in Congress.

Paul’s office was dedicated, first and foremost, to his political principles, and his work with his grassroots base reflects that. Politics and procedure simply didn’t matter to him. My main contact in Paul’s office even had his voicemail set up with special instructions for those calling about HR 1207, which was the number of the House bill to audit the Federal Reserve. But it wasn’t just the Fed audit – any competent liberal Democratic staffer in Congress can tell you that Paul will work with anyone who seeks his ends of rolling back American Empire and its reach into foreign countries, auditing the Federal Reserve, and stopping the drug war

Paul is deeply conservative, of course, and there are reasons he believes in those end goals that have nothing to do with creating a more socially just and equitable society. But then, when considering questions about Ron Paul, you have to ask yourself whether you prefer a libertarian who will tell you upfront about his opposition to civil rights statutes, or authoritarian Democratic leaders who will expand healthcare to children and then aggressively enforce a racist war on drugs and shield multi-trillion dollar transactions from public scrutiny.

This is why Ron Paul can critique the Federal Reserve and American empire, and why liberals have essentially no answer to his ideas, arguing instead over Paul having character defects. Ron Paul’s stance should be seen as a challenge to better create a coherent structural critique of the American political order. It’s quite obvious that there isn’t one coming from the left, otherwise the figure challenging the war on drugs and American empire wouldn’t be in the Republican primary as the libertarian candidate. To get there, liberals must grapple with big finance and war, two topics that are difficult to handle in any but a glib manner that separates us from our actual traditional and problematic affinity for both. War financing has a specific tradition in American culture, but there is no guarantee war financing must continue the way it has. And there’s no reason to assume that centralized power will act in a more just manner these days, that we will see continuity with the historical experience of the New Deal and Civil Rights Era. The liberal alliance with the mechanics of mass mobilizing warfare, which should be pretty obvious when seen in this light, is deep-rooted.

What we’re seeing on the left is this conflict played out, whether it is big slow centralized unions supporting problematic policies, protest movements that cannot be institutionalized in any useful structure, or a completely hollow liberal intellectual apparatus arguing for increasing the power of corporations through the Federal government to enact their agenda. Now of course, Ron Paul pandered to racists, and there is no doubt that this is a legitimate political issue in the Presidential race. But the intellectual challenge that Ron Paul presents ultimately has nothing to do with him, and everything to do with contradictions within modern liberalism.

Well, libertarians have a massive problem with government getting involved in individuals lives and in state issues...

That's not to say a libertarian doesn't oppose certain social issues - they do but they realize those issues are not meant for the government to decide or legislate.

I'm sure Ron Paul is morally opposed to a lot of social issues, however he will not vote with his morals - he will vote with the Bill of Rights.

I believe libertarians are taken the wrong way by 75% of the American public...

 

[Mad Scientist]

If we disbanded our armed forces completely we would never wage war. Of course everyone else and his brother would be walking over our corpses on the way to occupy Washington but the Left doesn't care about that.

Ron Paul has NEVER said that we must disband our armed forces COMPLETELY.

I'll tell you what Aquathena.... If Libertarianism wouldn't be such a hard ass when it comes to the poor and the elderly, I'd probably vote for Paul. But I am sorry.... I am not going to let fellow Americans live a life of shit just because SOME people hate the government and taxation.

Ron Paul doesnt HATE gov't taxation, he hates OPPRESSIVE gov't taxation. If the gov't wasn't taking so much of our pay in taxes don't ya' think that we could afford to buy what we need ourselves?
Why do we need to send our money to Washington and then beg them for programs that we should be doing ourselves? Let's keep it for ourselves and cut out the middle man.

 

[Mr.Nick]

If we disbanded our armed forces completely we would never wage war. Of course everyone else and his brother would be walking over our corpses on the way to occupy Washington but the Left doesn't care about that.

Ron Paul has NEVER said that we must disband our armed forces COMPLETELY.

I'll tell you what Aquathena.... If Libertarianism wouldn't be such a hard ass when it comes to the poor and the elderly, I'd probably vote for Paul. But I am sorry.... I am not going to let fellow Americans live a life of shit just because SOME people hate the government and taxation.

Ron Paul doesnt HATE gov't taxation, he hates OPPRESSIVE gov't taxation. If the gov't wasn't taking so much of our pay in taxes don't ya' think that we could afford to buy what we need ourselves?
Why do we need to send our money to Washington and then beg them for programs that we should be doing ourselves? Let's keep it for ourselves and cut out the middle man.

Arguing with Steelplate is a waste of time...

He's a little troll...

I don't even think he believes half the shit he posts - he only spews his bullshit because he has no life and loves to argue.

 

[bobcollum]

Bush wasn't a conservative. Name one program he eliminated.

Soooo......is that how you measure conservatism? You're probably not old enough to remember how overjoyed the "ultra-right" was to see the REAL conservative Bush defeat the RINO McCain in their primary fight.

No, sorry. Bush was and is considered a conservative. You guys wanted him and now you're stuck with him.

OK, so you can't name a single program he eliminated.
Can you name some new programs he started?
Bush is a conservative like Nixon was a conservative. What we want is someone like Reagan was a conservative.

Yes, except that the majority of Conservatives voted for him, and will vote for more Neo-Cons in the very near future...whether the candidate that was selected was truly a Conservative or not is irrelevant. If anything it only serves to make conservatives appear incompetent with respect to voting.

What's really funny is how you chastise W yet show support for Rick Perry(or did support).

 

[Mr.Nick]

Soooo......is that how you measure conservatism? You're probably not old enough to remember how overjoyed the "ultra-right" was to see the REAL conservative Bush defeat the RINO McCain in their primary fight.

No, sorry. Bush was and is considered a conservative. You guys wanted him and now you're stuck with him.

OK, so you can't name a single program he eliminated.
Can you name some new programs he started?
Bush is a conservative like Nixon was a conservative. What we want is someone like Reagan was a conservative.

Yes, except that the majority of Conservatives voted for him, and will vote for more Neo-Cons in the very near future...whether the candidate that was selected was truly a Conservative or not is irrelevant. If anything it only serves to make conservatives appear incompetent with respect to voting.

What's really funny is how you chastise W yet show support for Rick Perry(or did support).

I'm a church going Catholic conservative, a libertarian and a Ron Paul supporter...

I'd never vote for a neocon or a RHINO..

My values are my values and I wish to press them on no one and I would like the same courtesy back...

 

[bobcollum]

OK, so you can't name a single program he eliminated.
Can you name some new programs he started?
Bush is a conservative like Nixon was a conservative. What we want is someone like Reagan was a conservative.

Yes, except that the majority of Conservatives voted for him, and will vote for more Neo-Cons in the very near future...whether the candidate that was selected was truly a Conservative or not is irrelevant. If anything it only serves to make conservatives appear incompetent with respect to voting.

What's really funny is how you chastise W yet show support for Rick Perry(or did support).

I'm a church going Catholic conservative, a libertarian and a Ron Paul supporter...

I'd never vote for a neocon or a RHINO..

My values are my values and I wish to press them on no one and I would like the same courtesy back...

I'm sure that's true, but you're in the minority like me, not voting for the wolf in sheep's clothing.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Yes, except that the majority of Conservatives voted for him, and will vote for more Neo-Cons in the very near future...whether the candidate that was selected was truly a Conservative or not is irrelevant. If anything it only serves to make conservatives appear incompetent with respect to voting.

What's really funny is how you chastise W yet show support for Rick Perry(or did support).

I'm a church going Catholic conservative, a libertarian and a Ron Paul supporter...

I'd never vote for a neocon or a RHINO..

My values are my values and I wish to press them on no one and I would like the same courtesy back...

I'm sure that's true, but you're in the minority like me, not voting for the wolf in sheep's clothing.

I'm voting Ron Paul...

He's no sheep - he's a wolf.

If my candidate doesn't win in the primaries I will always vote republican tho..

Democrats are the greater evil...

You'd have to put Hitler or Stalin up against Obama for me to vote for him.

I suppose I have agreed with a few "blue dogs" in the past tho... Giffords was one of them.

 

[Unkotare]

I'm a church going Catholic conservative...

Oh really? Is church where you learned to laugh at the oppression of millions of human beings in North Korea, or at the thought of a woman being raped? Is church where you learned to objectify trashy women (or at least to make shit up about it)? Are you sure you aren't going to obama's old church by mistake?

 

[Unkotare]

I read somewhere that after 23 years in the House of Representatives and authoring over 600 pieces of legislation, only ONE bill written and sponsored by Ron Paul has ever been passed.

 

[Mr.Nick]

I'm a church going Catholic conservative...

Oh really? Is church where you learned to laugh at the oppression of millions of human beings in North Korea, or at the thought of a woman being raped? Is church where you learned to objectify trashy women (or at least to make shit up about it)? Are you sure you aren't going to obama's old church by mistake?

North Koreans cant even practice religion..

The rest of your shit is just nonsense you just made up in your head.

What the fuck is wrong with people like you??

 

[Mr.Nick]

I read somewhere that after 23 years in the House of Representatives and authoring over 600 pieces of legislation, only ONE bill written and sponsored by Ron Paul has ever been passed.

I don't believe Paul is liked very much by both republicans and democrats alike..

However the American public are really starting to wake up and take notice given the notion that he has been right on just about everything - especially the economy.

 

[Unkotare]

I'm a church going Catholic conservative...

Oh really? Is church where you learned to laugh at the oppression of millions of human beings in North Korea, or at the thought of a woman being raped? Is church where you learned to objectify trashy women (or at least to make shit up about it)? Are you sure you aren't going to obama's old church by mistake?

North Koreans cant even practice religion..??

Apparently YOU can't, 'cause if you really are "church going," you ain't practicing what is being preached to you.