Rise and fall of Ted Williams

[MaggieMae]

Ok Maggie,

I bet Ted's gonna fail again.

There.

Happy now?

Statistics show he probably will. I started this thread in the Health section hoping to generate a discussion on addiction, not as a venue for insults from people like you who wake up ugly and stay that way throughout your miserable day.

What would you like to discuss about addiction?

How you wish it would be?

Or how it is?

How it is is that you can't cure addiction for anyone. Only they can cure it for themselves. No matter what you do, what you teach, what you give, or what you take away, until THEY want to give up the addiction, they won't.

Sounded to me like you were as concerned with patting "Dr." Phil on the back for putting Mr. Williams in greater risk as you were hoping for Mr. Williams to beat the odds and actually get clean. I merely pointed out that "Dr." Phil is an idiot (IMO). He is to psychology what Bill O'Reilly and Keith Olberman are to news......a commentator, not a practicing physician. He is a complete, fabricated fraud. An actor, playing a psychologist. (You do know his license was stripped over an inappropriate relationship with a 19 year-old patient, right? And that his psychological "expertise" is futile in helping him to deal with his own father, whom he doesn't speak with and hasn't in over 25 years?)

Chances are that Ted won't make it. To me, it seems he's "playing the game" and "saying all the right things," but I don't sense that he's sincere. What cures addiction is that you have to hit bottom. I don't think Ted has, and I don't think any of this attention, or Dr. Phil's whoring of his story (along with all the others who have done the same) is helping either.

It would be a warm fuzzy story if we get to write the ending. The problem is, only Ted can do that, and his track record prior to his salvation wasn't too good. Since his salvation, its been about the same as it was before.

I hope he makes it, I really do.

But I don't think he will until he hits bottom. Only he knows where the bottom is for him, but it seems obvious to me that he hasn't hit it yet.

And I certainly don't think an opportunistic thespian, pretending to be a Doctor of Psychology, is any friend of Ted's. Certainly not at this point in his life. Ted needs help from REAL Doctors, not Oprah's pool boy.

If you had really read my OP, you would have noted that I don't think too much of Dr. Phil's methods either.

You are correct defining addiction as something the person has to fix him/herself, but most need help along the way. I've had two alcoholics in my immediate family: My uncle, who on return from Vietnam couldn't kick it and wound up on the streets of Seattle and finally died from alcohol poisoning, and my son who was well on his way (blaming everyone for his successive job losses and unhappy marriage) when his best friend intervened and got him into rehab. (He wouldn't listen to me--I was just picking on him, so he thought). He had one relapse, went back to the same rehabilitation center where he knew all the doctors and therapists, and finally got it, but there was an even greater push the second time to get him into aftercare (with the same people). My son never did like AA, and still doesn't because there's too much emphasis on religion AND too much "talk" among the participants who tend to glorify alcohol with their neverending tales of how much "fun" they used to have. As far as I know, he's been sober now for nearly five years and his lifestyle doesn't even tempt him anymore. He tells me that occasionally he'll think "a drink would be nice right about now," but it's only fleeting and soon forgotten.

There, that's my discussion.

 

[MaggieMae]

Williams quite clearly is an extreme example of the self-destructive personality. Within 72 hours after being lifted from the sewer and placed on a bed of roses he set about to do precisely what he knows very well will sabotage his good fortune.

This rehab interlude is a short pause in what amounts to a long, drawn-out, painful suicide. Has anyone here seen the very disturbing (Nicholson/Streep) movie, Ironweed? It tells about people like Williams.

They all think at first that they can control it. I'm sure Williams thought that too, when handed his bed of roses. Now he's been forced to recognize that he CAN'T. It's true that anyone like him needs that huge wakeup call before they begin the long journey back to sanity.

 

[MaggieMae]

Are you talking about TED WILLIAMS the baseball player?!

No. The skid-Row bum with the brilliant radio voice who was lifted from the Pit to the Pedestal but went back to the bottle within three days. He hasn't had enough pain and humiliation. He wants more.

Now he's in some alcoholic rehab program, most of which are marginally effective and produce temporary results in the majority of cases. Those standard AA programs will not work for this fellow. The only type of program that will work for people like Williams would be something along the lines of the Parris Island experience. Long-term physical misery and psychological torture that he cannot resign or escape from. If they can survive three months of that without booze they will have permanently overcome their weakness.

It's either that or give them a place to flop, one hot meal a day, and all the booze they want until they die from it. Shorten their journey.

You have a very negative view. Millions of addicts have gotten clean. The ONLY solution available is cold-turkey and never returning OR rehab which yes, does have a low success rate because rehab can only go so far in fixing the BRAIN'S addiction. The only other alternative is knowledge: Recognizing the signs that you might be predisposed to alcoholism, and there are hundreds of websites you can visit which discuss those. As for drug addiction, which is reaching an epidemic, there are many alternatives to pursue, not the least of which is clamping down on doctors who over-prescribe. Then there's the meth problem, which nobody knows how to control because it can be made in someone's garage.

Maybe the biggest unanswered question is why so many people feel the need to medicate themselves into serenity or sublimity and avoid the real world?

 

[MikeK]

You have a very negative view. Millions of addicts have gotten clean. The ONLY solution available is cold-turkey and never returning OR rehab which yes, does have a low success rate because rehab can only go so far in fixing the BRAIN'S addiction. The only other alternative is knowledge: Recognizing the signs that you might be predisposed to alcoholism, and there are hundreds of websites you can visit which discuss those. As for drug addiction, which is reaching an epidemic, there are many alternatives to pursue, not the least of which is clamping down on doctors who over-prescribe. Then there's the meth problem, which nobody knows how to control because it can be made in someone's garage.

Maybe the biggest unanswered question is why so many people feel the need to medicate themselves into serenity or sublimity and avoid the real world?

It's not an unanswered question at all. And the answer to it happens to be the factor you've overlooked.

Most addicts, including alcoholics, have acquired their compulsive craving through simple habituation, e.g., a cocktail or a few beers after work to "relax." If they are biologically or psychologically receptive they get hooked. This type of addict is relatively easy to rehabilitate because they truly wish to be normalized. But there is another type.

Substance addiction, including alcoholism, is one common manifestation of the self-destructive personality. It is in fact a prolonged, exaggeratedly painful, deeply subconscious suicidal impulse. This type of addict is not responsive to ordinary rehabilitation methods. They appear to respond well to rehab efforts but as soon as the opportunity to resume their misery presents itself they seize upon it -- as did Williams.

This extreme form of masochism is an interesting psychological disorder. If you'd like to know more about it I recommend, The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness, by Dr. Erich Fromm.

 

[MaggieMae]

You have a very negative view. Millions of addicts have gotten clean. The ONLY solution available is cold-turkey and never returning OR rehab which yes, does have a low success rate because rehab can only go so far in fixing the BRAIN'S addiction. The only other alternative is knowledge: Recognizing the signs that you might be predisposed to alcoholism, and there are hundreds of websites you can visit which discuss those. As for drug addiction, which is reaching an epidemic, there are many alternatives to pursue, not the least of which is clamping down on doctors who over-prescribe. Then there's the meth problem, which nobody knows how to control because it can be made in someone's garage.

Maybe the biggest unanswered question is why so many people feel the need to medicate themselves into serenity or sublimity and avoid the real world?

It's not an unanswered question at all. And the answer to it happens to be the factor you've overlooked.

Most addicts, including alcoholics, have acquired their compulsive craving through simple habituation, e.g., a cocktail or a few beers after work to "relax." If they are biologically or psychologically receptive they get hooked. This type of addict is relatively easy to rehabilitate because they truly wish to be normalized. But there is another type.

Substance addiction, including alcoholism, is one common manifestation of the self-destructive personality. It is in fact a prolonged, exaggeratedly painful, deeply subconscious suicidal impulse. This type of addict is not responsive to ordinary rehabilitation methods. They appear to respond well to rehab efforts but as soon as the opportunity to resume their misery presents itself they seize upon it -- as did Williams.

This extreme form of masochism is an interesting psychological disorder. If you'd like to know more about it I recommend, The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness, by Dr. Erich Fromm.

But it still is a brain disorder that can't be reversed, just controlled. Does that book explain why addiction (especially to alcohol) is hereditary? My son's affliction didn't come from me, because even though I've been through my own periods of desperation, I never consciously or subconsciously considered suicide. His father, however, did have a drinking problem--but was considered more of a "heavy drinker" than addicted to it. He could go for long periods of time just drinking wine or beer occasionally, and then binge out of the blue. But he would suffer through the hangover, rather than taking the quick cure of hair of the dog, which gets a true alcoholic right back into his sad state.

Thanks for the comments and info.

 

[Middleman]

Who is this famous person?

 

[Sheldon]

How humiliating is it to stand on a street corner, filthy, holding a crude sign begging for a job? He'll get over the humiliation of an intervention. And, as I said, the job offers and other media attention will still be there when he gets clean. That was NOT an option when he was in prior rehabs.

Before, he was just another random, faceless loser on a street corner.

Now, he's known by millions, who have expectations of him succeeding--and his personal drama is playing out for everyone to see. That's the humiliation I was referring to, that these millions of people could construe this return to rehab as a quick failure.

What I'm saying is the Doc didn't need to make a big show of this. It should've been handled quietly, privately.

And it's not "when he gets clean". It's if. A big if.

Well, people who appear as guests on Dr. Phil get paid, so I'm sure that's part of the reason it got all the publicity. Plus I don't think it's a bad idea to show millions of people what can happen when you're a serious addict and try to go it alone. It just...doesn't...work. That's the real problem with most addicts who really want to get clean because their addictions have become a real sickness, and they will be sicker when they try to stop abruptly. You can't just detox for 3 days, then think you're cured, and start all over again thinking you've got a handle on it now.

Yeah, alcoholism is no joke. If I remember right, morphine and nicotine are the only drugs that are more addictive.

It would make for a great story if he really could get AND STAY clean, and have a successful career in broadcasting. I hope he really takes advantage of these chances that others can only dream of.

 

[Jackson]

People may have thought that Ted was off the alcohol while he was homeless which most likely was not the case, so this was inevitable. He does need a good rehab and it would be nice if he had a "companion" to watch over him for the next year. Call him a butler, lol.

We all wish him well. It is a shame that Dr. Phil did this on his show, privacy and less exposure would have been the ticket. I'm sure we are all rooting for him.

 

[MikeK]

But it still is a brain disorder that can't be reversed, just controlled. Does that book explain why addiction (especially to alcohol) is hereditary? My son's affliction didn't come from me, because even though I've been through my own periods of desperation, I never consciously or subconsciously considered suicide. His father, however, did have a drinking problem--but was considered more of a "heavy drinker" than addicted to it. He could go for long periods of time just drinking wine or beer occasionally, and then binge out of the blue. But he would suffer through the hangover, rather than taking the quick cure of hair of the dog, which gets a true alcoholic right back into his sad state.

Thanks for the comments and info.

Fromm's book deals mainly with the psychic mechanisms of destructive behavior. Two other books (highly recommended) which deal more specifically with the destructive impulse turned inward are: Man Against Himself, by Dr. Karl Menninger, and Self Realization and Self Defeat, by Dr. Samuel Warner.

Based on your comments here I believe the latter two books will more substantively address your concern.

Re: your question about addiction and heredity; I recall that researchers at the University of North Carolina had identified a gene variant establishing a genetic link to addictive behavior and I believe it specifically referred to alcoholism. I'm sure that a telephone call to UNC Medical School will refer you to the research data. Or you might try a Google search.

 

[MaggieMae]

People may have thought that Ted was off the alcohol while he was homeless which most likely was not the case, so this was inevitable. He does need a good rehab and it would be nice if he had a "companion" to watch over him for the next year. Call him a butler, lol.

We all wish him well. It is a shame that Dr. Phil did this on his show, privacy and less exposure would have been the ticket. I'm sure we are all rooting for him.

I actually think exposure of the problem was the best jumping off point. Ted will now be ashamed if he starts drinking/using again and the whole world would know he blew it. How humiliating that would be? He isn't some illiterate lowlife who wouldn't care about his image. He cares a LOT.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

The only person who I believe might could save Ted is Dick Biondi.

 

[MikeK]

I actually think exposure of the problem was the best jumping off point. Ted will now be ashamed if he starts drinking/using again and the whole world would know he blew it. How humiliating that would be? He isn't some illiterate lowlife who wouldn't care about his image. He cares a LOT.

You obviously are a soft-hearted person. But do you truly believe that a man who could live the way this man lived for a substantial part of his life is capable of being inhibited or motivated by shame? Do you believe he cares about how the world perceives him?

If Williams were capable of such concerns he would by now have cleaned himself up or jumped off a roof and shortened his miserable journey. But shame and misery are a part of his pathological agenda.