Right Wingers eating crow on price of gasoline. $1.39 in Indiana.

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ray 12935734

As we all know, this economy sucks. The economy is directly proportional to energy usage. The jobs that were created were mostly lower paying jobs and let's not forget we have the most Americans not looking for work since the mid 70's. Our welfare rolls are still at record proportions so all these people not working are not consuming fuel.

That's why we are using less gasoline and diesel.

The new Ford F-150 has top rating of 22 mpg combined (19 mpg city, 26 mpg highway) for the most fuel-efficient model, a rear-wheel-drive model with the new 2.7-liter EcoBoost V-6 engine.

Good for Ford. And Ford just announced adding 2000 jobs in Lexington Ky to build them.

You know one of the three U.S. Automakers that conservative's didn't want to bail out during the Great Bush recession of 2007 and 2008.


Remember this?

Romney published a New York Times op-ed in November 2008, even before Obama had taken office, headlined, "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt."

Here's some of the Op-Ed.

"If General Motors, Ford and Chrysler get the bailout that their chief executives asked for yesterday, you can kiss the American automotive industry goodbye. It won't go overnight, but its demise will be virtually guaranteed. Without that bailout, Detroit will need to drastically restructure itself .... Detroit needs a turnaround, not a check."


It's a good thing we kissed McCain And Romney goodbye instead.


Speaking of Romney since you brought up the slow recovery from the Great Bush Recession. It would have been worse in Romney's own words if he had won in 2011. He said he would have unemployment below 6% in four years if elected. Obama got it there in two.

Yes, but DumBama got it there by more people dropping out of the workforce.

When they do these surveys, they only count people unemployed as those that are not working but looking to work. Those who gave up on looking for a job don't count, so they help lower the unemployment rate.

But that aside, if you're going to give credit to somebody for the unemployment rate, you first have to show what they did in order to give them such credit. Was it the increase in capital gains taxes? Was it Obama's increase in personal income taxes for those making over 450K a year? Was it burdening our job creators with Commie Care that cost them a bundle? What was it?

DumBama is the most anti-business President in our lifetime. I would love to know what you think he did that brought unemployment down.

As for Ford, they didn't want or need any bailout. Our government is not supposed to be a lending institution, our government is supposed to govern. If you don't allow businesses to go bankrupt, they do the same stupid things that put them in bankruptcy in the first place. If they file for bankruptcy, they have to address issues set forth by the court and build a much better industry. Just ask one of the most successful business people in America--Donald Trump.

 

[dblack]

This is delicious irony especially given the previous high gas price Repub Prez was a former oil man albeit briefly

Is the President responsible for the price of gasoline?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Eliminating CAFE standards would be the stupidest fucking thing we could do.

No wonder Todd wants it.

DumBama increased standards on trucks as well in the future. If it's not bad enough the additional expenses we suffer because of pollution standards, now the cost of trucks will increase even more because of the new CAFE standards on those as well.

So what happens when we have an increased cost to delivery vehicles? We pass on that loss to our customers. How do our customers recoup that loss? They pass them on to us--the American consumer.

A new cheap tractor today is about $120,000. That's a no bells--no whistles vehicle. In the future, that vehicle will cost about $140,000. A good over-the-road vehicle will cost nearly a quarter million dollars.

So now the cost of products is going to increase because of these new and more recent standards. We will pay for that in the store. More people will turn to foreign made products and that will put more Americans out of work.

You're just another clueless retard that doesn't understand economics.

I don't, huh?

Then tell me where I'm going wrong. The cost to transportation companies has increased and will increase even more thanks to Hussein. Do you think they will eat those costs, or how will they recoup those losses?

If your answer is they will recoup those losses by passing it to their customers, then you'd be absolutely correct. Now ask yourself: will those companies eat the losses or pass THEM to somebody else?

Now if they pass those losses onto their customer--the people that manufacture our products, do you think they will eat the costs, or do you think they will look for cheaper vendors to purchase from?

 

[Dot Com]

This is delicious irony especially given the previous high gas price Repub Prez was a former oil man albeit briefly

Is the President responsible for the price of gasoline?

according to republicans, when prices are high, yes hack boi. So much so that they were planning on running on it against our proud, two-term President in 2012. Whassamatta? You don't remember that?

 

[TemplarKormac]

I'm not giving credit for Obama lowering gas prices. I give him and the U.S. Automakers credit for lowering demand for by reducing U.S. Consumption by setting higher fuel standards for cars and trucks.

So, you did give him credit. How foolish.

My point that all you RW'ers avoid like the plague is that RW'er hysteria over Obama's energy and environmental policies did not raise the price of gas to those ridiculous and scary high prices that wingnuts were attacking Obama 24/7.

You know, your talking points and calling us wingnuts reeks of liberal hysteria, not the other way around.

So why should we trust conservative's judgment about anything when they have been proven so wrong on something pretty simple to figure out when that attack had life?

What?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

This is delicious irony especially given the previous high gas price Repub Prez was a former oil man albeit briefly

Is the President responsible for the price of gasoline?

No, the commodities market is.

What a President can do however is influence the price. If speculators see that a President is doing things to restrict fuel, of course they will go long (meaning the price will increase) on their contracts. If a President is doing what he can to increase fuel supply, the speculators will go short meaning the price will decrease.

 

[dblack]

This is delicious irony especially given the previous high gas price Repub Prez was a former oil man albeit briefly

Is the President responsible for the price of gasoline?

No, the commodities market is.

What a President can do however is influence the price. If speculators see that a President is doing things to restrict fuel, of course they will go long (meaning the price will increase) on their contracts. If a President is doing what he can to increase fuel supply, the speculators will go short meaning the price will decrease.

So, should the president "influence" the price of gasoline? Why? Why not?

 

[Oldstyle]

Staidup 12934346

Now think what prices would be if the US private market hadn't developed fracking technology?

Did you know back when that the private market was developing fracking technology? So why was Obama accused of intending to raise gasoline price so high that it would destroy the U.S. Economy. All I want to know is why you RW'ers believed Obama could skyrocket gasoline prices since 75 percent of good fracking sites are on private lands anyway. The fed lands would not have changed a thing. The offshore drilling in the Gulf is back to 2009 levels since the BP disaster forced a moratorium on new permits.

Eleven people were killed in that Deep Horizon accident. Safety for oil rig workers was enough reason alone to slow down the permitting process for offshore drilling.

The reality is the private sector developed fracking and gasoline never approached RW alarmist, panic and fearmongering political bullcrap.

Now it's as if private land fracking just appeared out of nowhere. Why the bs about public permits.

Your point makes no sense as a point relative to or antagonistic to the OP.

How many people were killed on shallow water drilling rigs, Notfooled? I'll give you the answer...NONE! Yet the Obama Administration shut down permits for shallow water drilling as well as for deep water drilling and then made them pay for a third party examination of their safety protocols before they were allowed to start drilling again. Care to explain the logic behind that? You can't...but go ahead and try...

 

[Oldstyle]

Ray 12935734

As we all know, this economy sucks. The economy is directly proportional to energy usage. The jobs that were created were mostly lower paying jobs and let's not forget we have the most Americans not looking for work since the mid 70's. Our welfare rolls are still at record proportions so all these people not working are not consuming fuel.

That's why we are using less gasoline and diesel.

The new Ford F-150 has top rating of 22 mpg combined (19 mpg city, 26 mpg highway) for the most fuel-efficient model, a rear-wheel-drive model with the new 2.7-liter EcoBoost V-6 engine.

Good for Ford. And Ford just announced adding 2000 jobs in Lexington Ky to build them.

You know one of the three U.S. Automakers that conservative's didn't want to bail out during the Great Bush recession of 2007 and 2008.


Remember this?

Romney published a New York Times op-ed in November 2008, even before Obama had taken office, headlined, "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt."

Here's some of the Op-Ed.

"If General Motors, Ford and Chrysler get the bailout that their chief executives asked for yesterday, you can kiss the American automotive industry goodbye. It won't go overnight, but its demise will be virtually guaranteed. Without that bailout, Detroit will need to drastically restructure itself .... Detroit needs a turnaround, not a check."


It's a good thing we kissed McCain And Romney goodbye instead.


Speaking of Romney since you brought up the slow recovery from the Great Bush Recession. It would have been worse in Romney's own words if he had won in 2011. He said he would have unemployment below 6% in four years if elected. Obama got it there in two.

Did we bail out Ford? When did that supposedly happen?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

This is delicious irony especially given the previous high gas price Repub Prez was a former oil man albeit briefly

Is the President responsible for the price of gasoline?

No, the commodities market is.

What a President can do however is influence the price. If speculators see that a President is doing things to restrict fuel, of course they will go long (meaning the price will increase) on their contracts. If a President is doing what he can to increase fuel supply, the speculators will go short meaning the price will decrease.

So, should the president "influence" the price of gasoline? Why? Why not?

Any President should influence the price of gasoline because it has an impact on our economy.

Our most recent accomplishments in regards to the economy is proportional to the decrease in fuel costs. I work with people that were (at it's highest point) paying over $300.00 per month just in gasoline. Cut that in half, and a family like that has an extra $150.00 per month in residual income. They can use that additional income to purchase things, to repay loans, to put into investments or savings.

Thanks to fracking, you can now add another few hundred dollars per year in natural gas savings. Combined with their savings on gasoline, it helps spark an economy because most everybody has more money to spend.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Not one Obama hating wingnut predictor wants to yell about how Obama's rejection of Keystone pipeline and EPA abuses and his contempt for big oil was going to lead to $5 to $6 gasoline and destroy jobs and the economy.

Where are you?

Credit Card in Northern Virginia at $1.82.

National avg at $2.04 right now.

What about six years under and because of obama averaging >$3.50?
Answer that and the reason why it's lower now. Then a discussion may ensue.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

BTW, the price through much of the country was 1.35 on Jan 11, 2009, the week before the hack took office.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Ray 12936087

When they do these surveys, they only count people unemployed as those that are not working but looking to work. Those who gave up on looking for a job don't count, so they help lower the unemployment rate.

The way the BLS calculates the unemployment rate has not changed over the decades. Romney said what he said - Obama already cut his required time to get unemployment under 6% in half. Was Romney the chosen leader of your Party in 2011. If you voted for Romney and not Obama you voted for twice slower recovery for employment. Apparently taking four years to get to 6% was acceptable to you during the ejection. Now it not good enough. You have a lot of nerve attacking Obama's record on unemployment. Trying to change the way unemployment is measured was a nice try but I am not fooled by your skullduggery.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ray 12936087

When they do these surveys, they only count people unemployed as those that are not working but looking to work. Those who gave up on looking for a job don't count, so they help lower the unemployment rate.

The way the BLS calculates the unemployment rate has not changed over the decades. Romney said what he said - Obama already cut his required time to get under 6% in half. Was Romney the chosen leader of your Party in 2011. If you voted for Romney and not Obama you voted for twice slower recovery for employment. Apparently taking four years to get to 6% was acceptable to you during the ejection. Now it not good enough. You have a lot of nerve attacking Obama's record on unemployment. Trying to change the way unemployment is measured was a nice try but I am not fooled by your skullduggery.

Where did I ever state he changed anything? All I am saying is that because more people dropped out of the labor force, the unemployment number decreases. It doesn't mean more people are employed, it means that more people are not looking for work. Who can blame them? Social programs pay just fine.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

What about six years under and because of obama averaging >$3.50?

How about writing a legible sentence?

If you mean Obama's seven years in office we've had $3.50 a gal gasoline then what's to talk about. Nothing he did or didn't do on energy policy caused the price of gas to rise so high that it would destroy the U.S. Economy. It was never headed to $6 a gal and signs were clear in 2011 that it not going there.


Keystone was a phony issue in 2911 used to fearmonger voters during the 2011 election season even though fear-mongers who could read business journals knew how phony it was.

.
All candidates look for ways to ‘shorthand’ a political message and the Republicans have found such an opportunity in just one word – Keystone.

But is Obama’s decision on the Keystone Pipeline to blame?

To answer the question, I went looking for someone who could really make the case against the President. And who better to do this than Ray Perryman, the very economist hired by TransCanada (the company seeking to build the pipeline) to support the economic value in building the pipelinein the first place?

According to Mr. Perryman, who continues to strongly support the construction of the Keystone project, once “fully implemented and flowing reasonably close to capacity”, the pipeline could result in a 3.5 to 4 cent decrease in the price per gallon of gas, based on current conditions. Perryman does allow that his estimate might be on the high side by adding, “I should also point out that a modest change of this nature will often be swamped by the day-to-day factors that impact market prices.”

Is Obama Really To Blame For Rising Gas Prices? Do You Really Care?

Boy! Maybe an iffy 4 cents when the pipeline was fully operational according to "Ray Perryman, the very economist hired by TransCanada (the company seeking to build the pipeline) to support the economic value in building the pipelinein the first place?"


And here is Moody's Keystone truth in 2011.

.

According to Moody’s (hardly a bastion of liberal thought), when considering the varying regional impact of not having the pipeline and taking an average of the results, the conclusion is that the construction of the pipeline would lower US gas prices by 1.6 cents per gallon.

That’s less than a quarter each time we stop for a fill up.

How easy it is to see that RW'ers are not interested in facts when they find a buzzword that works. Keystone tied to hoped for $6 gas was the mother of all buzzwords in the 2011 election season.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Ray 12936564B

Where did I ever state he changed anything?

I didn't say you stated that Obama changed anything. It is you trying to change the significance of the unemployment rate under Obama by diverting to the labor participation rate instead.

Obama beat Romney's stated unemployment goal by two years. That is good, right? The labor participation rate does not negate the stark reality on unemployment that you obviously do not wish to discuss or be reminded about what Romney said.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Roshawn 12936503

BTW, the price through much of the country was 1.35 on Jan 11, 2009, the week before the hack took office.

Catch up. It has already been noted on this thread that $1.35 a gal gasoline in Jan 2009 was during the Great Bush Recession and the U.S. Economy was losing nearly a million jobs a month.

So what do you prefer.

(A) $1.35 a gal gasoline while losing a million jobs a month. Approaching double digit inflation.

Or

(B) $2.00 a gal gasoline while adding a 271,000 jump in payrolls as reported for October 2015. Achieving 5% unemployment.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Oldstyle 12936289

How many people were killed on shallow water drilling rigs, Notfooled? I'll give you the answer...NONE! Yet the Obama Administration shut down permits for shallow water drilling as well as for deep water drilling and then made them pay for a third party examination of their safety protocols before they were allowed to start drilling again. Care to explain the logic behind that? You can't...but go ahead and try...

I work in heavy construction and have all my life in the field and in the office. Worker safety is more important in this industry than anything else including schedule and profit.

So when eleven people die on an oil rig - it does not matter what type it was. You err on the side of caution. You put a few pennies saved for your gas tank ahead of oil workers lives. I don't need to explain anything. You don't give a Damn about the environment and you don't give a damn about workers lives and limbs and well being.

There's no logic or morality there Oldstyle.

There was a catastrophic failure on a foreign run oil rig in U.S. waters. The price of gas did not go extremely up as a result of the moratorium on permits. Those that predicted they would go way up, were exaggerating at best, outright lying at worst. Current pricing proves them wrong.

 

[westwall]

Not one Obama hating wingnut predictor wants to yell about how Obama's rejection of Keystone pipeline and EPA abuses and his contempt for big oil was going to lead to $5 to $6 gasoline and destroy jobs and the economy.

Where are you?

Credit Card in Northern Virginia at $1.82.

National avg at $2.04 right now.

One thing is for sure, you really have no idea how commodities and economics work. The reason why gas is so cheap is because the Saudis are trying to drive the frackers out of business. Has not a thing to do with the current admin but has everything to do with the success of the frackers.

 

[Mustang]

Not one Obama hating wingnut predictor wants to yell about how Obama's rejection of Keystone pipeline and EPA abuses and his contempt for big oil was going to lead to $5 to $6 gasoline and destroy jobs and the economy.

Where are you?

Credit Card in Northern Virginia at $1.82.

National avg at $2.04 right now.

A couple of days ago, I paid $1.78/gal. Unlike conservatives, I don't long for the days under a conservative president like Bush, when gas was OVER $4/gal.