Returning Troops Banned From Airport Terminal

[red states rule]

Now Welsey Clark is demanding Rush be bumped off Armed Forces Radio

Why not let the troops vote if they want Rush kept on? My guess is they would want his full three hour show and not just the one hour they get now

 

[RightWingSpirit]

You have some stats to go with that? Otherwise, I'll assume this is just some of your own brand of brain washing, lol.

he pulled it out of his ass and declared it as official info, as most liberals do.

 

[red states rule]

he pulled it out of his ass and declared it as official info, as most liberals do.

and approved by Moveon.org and George Soros

 

[midcan5]

So those who served in the National Guard did not serve "honorably"?

Not the point - Let me say this clearly and only once here, to my generation joining the guard, as Bush did, was draft dodging. No one went there because they were patriotic citizens who wanted to serve. They went there to get out of active duty, plain and simple. And if anyone here denies that they are deep in a wingnut coma or outright lying.

And please guys enough of your right wingnut congratulatory circle jerk. Think for yourself, oh sorry, forgot....

 

[red states rule]

Not the point - Let me say this clearly and only once here, to my generation joining the guard, as Bush did, was draft dodging. No one went there because they were patriotic citizens who wanted to serve. They went there to get out of active duty, plain and simple. And if anyone here denies that they are deep in a wingnut coma or outright lying.

And please guys enough of your right wingnut congratulatory circle jerk. Think for yourself, oh sorry, forgot....

Leave it to the left to really smear and insult members of the US military, while creating made up smears to take the heat off their smears and insults

 

[Annie]

Leave it to the left to really smear and insult members of the US military, while creating made up smears to take the heat off their smears and insults

Seems they have 'rethought' what was done:

http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/ci_7070500?source=email

Oakland airport tells troops 'sorry'
Conservatives say decision not to let Marines into terminal was typical Left Coast disrespect
By Erik N. Nelson, STAFF WRITER
Inside Bay Area
Article Last Updated:10/03/2007 11:01:22 AM PDT
Oakland International Airport officials apologized for prohibiting a planeload of U.S. troops, just back from Iraq, from entering the passenger terminal during a layover Thursday, prompting conservative pundits and bloggers to hold up the incident as an example of the Left Coast dishonoring soldiers.

"We apologize, I apologize to any members of the military that were on this flight and may have experienced some discomfort or perception of disrespect," said Omar Benjamin, executive director of the Port of Oakland, which operates the airport.

There was no disrespect intended when North American Airlines Flight 1777 was directed to wait two hours at a remote part of the airport, Benjamin said. The plane was onits way from Iraq to Hawaii.

Benjamin's apology came in the face of conflicting reports circulating across the nation painting the airport in the liberal-leaning Bay Area as a poster child for disrespect toward U.S. troops.

Although the airport said its decision was made "together with the TSA," the Transportation Security Administration denied playing a role.

"We didn't play any role in this," said TSA spokesman Nico Melendez, referring reporters to a statement posted Tuesday on the agency's Web site:

"At no time were service men and women prohibited from entering the sterile (secure) area of Oakland International Airport by TSA personnel or regulations. Airport officials, the airline and ground handling company coordinated the arrival and all services associated with this flight."

At a news conference Tuesday afternoon, airport officials said they did not realize that the soldiers had been screened during previous stopovers in Kuwait and New York. They also were unaware that some of the troops, reportedly Marines, had meant to see locals during their two-hour layover, said Deborah Ale-Flint, the airport's assistant director of aviation.

...

 

[actsnoblemartin]

I called those fuckers at the oakland airport and told them what i thought look up oakland international airport if you want.

Like Movon.org - some on the left will try to deny this ever happened. The kook left has a long history of showing how they really feel about the US military - it is not a history one should be proud of

 

[Doug]

MidCan5 is not wrong with respect to National Guard service during the Vietnam era -- you joined the National Guard (if you could -- places were limited and it usually took "pull" to get in) -- to avoid going to Vietnam. Everyone took this for granted.

However, by the late 1960s -- certainly after Tet -- no one wanted to go to Vietnam. Or at least very very few saw it by that time as defending America against Communism. Few people -- especially 18-25 year olds -- had a sophisticated understanding of Vietnam, or why we were there (official explanations or otherwise). It just seemed to be this endless nasty war we were stuck in -- and probably would not win.

Our political leaders were deeply divided, the American people were ambiguous, our own generation's most articulate members had already turned vehemently against it, the news media's reports were increasingly pessimistic. (I recall seeing a Life magazine cover, after Tet, with smiling NLF soldiers holding captured M-79 grenade launchers, which we had just finished training with. This magazine was passed around the barracks and studied intently.)

We now know -- or at least there is a good case for saying -- that Tet was a tremenous defeat for the Communists, destroying the NLF's human infrastructure in South Vietnam. But at the time it looked like we had been surprised by a popular uprising.

So there was a general, confused but real, feeling that this was not a war in which our homeland was endangered, but something else. I recall only one man who was an enthusiastic anti-Communist warrior, and he was generally a rather ridiculous person whom no one took seriously. (Nor did he end up in the infantry.)

The sergeants and officers were professionals and just did their duty without saying much. There seemed to be a fair amount of cynicism towards our political leaders, which as it turned out would be amply justified. But I suppose that's been true since Nebuchadnezzar's times.

What they tended to say to us was, "When you're over there it will be them or you, and they've been fighting for 25 years and have weeded out all the duds, so you better listen up." I was actually surprised at the lack of ideological content in the training.

I Basic I met plenty of people who, facing the draft, signed up as RA's because they were promised training that would get them out of the infantry. No one was ashamed of doing this. Everyone just discussed it from the point of view of whether the recruiters could be trusted on this issue, and whether the extra year a Regular had to serve was worth it.

Most people who were drafted, went. But it would be wrong to think either that (1) they only did so because they feared going to prison, and were thus a bunch of angry and rebellious conscripts, or (2) they just grimly did their patriotic duty. It was more complicated than that, although both of these descriptions would enter into a full description of the popular mood. (Things changed for the worse after 1968, at least in the lower ranks of the Army.)

There were plenty of kids who were not unhappy about being in the military, too. A number of them went airborne, which was definitely not the way to avoid combat. (I still recall our platoon sergeant at the end of Basic calling for "All you crazy people who want to jump out of airplanes, get over here", and a group of young men separating themselves out. Many were Latinos, by the way, which I always remember whenever I read some demented anti-Mexican ravings.) What mix of patriotism, the desire for excitement and a guaranteed proof of manhood, and the desire to be among an elite, made up their psyche's, I cannot say.

At least this is how it was among my training platoons in Basic and A.I.T. at Tigerland in the autumn of 1967 and winter of 1968.

I think this is why the American people have decided to give a pass to those who did not volunteer to go to Vietnam as Eleven-bravos, whatever their method of avoiding service was: getting a 4F, going into the Guard, fleeing to Canada, staying in graduate school, or pulling strings in some other way. The more you played by the rules, the more of a pass you get, but basically, everyone skates.

Don't blame the young people of those times for the decisions they made. They found themselves in a new situation, which did not fit the simplistic your-country-is-in-danger model they had grown up with. Many of the institutions of their society gave them mixed messages -- at best -- on what their duty was. "If the trumpet giveth forth an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself for the battle?"

If you want to blame anyone, blame the polticians who threw several million young Americans into a war that they thought could be won by graduated responses and half-measures, against an absolutely determined, ruthless and experienced enemy who had limitless support from Russia and China, and a safe hinterland to retreat to and launch attacks from.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What a crock of horse shit. My father was active Duty ( he eventually retired from the Army). He went to Nam twice, second time falling in a pungi stick trap and spending months in a Hospital with a blood disease they were not sure wasn't going to kill him. ( He eventually lost both legs due to that years after he retired)

I can tell you he and NONE of his NCO friends talked like that. When they did talk about Viet Nam they talked about the fact the enemy knew more than they did at times BUT never about being disillusioned or lost or any of the crap you claim.

Further you are aware National Guard units got sent to Nam? That in the case of Bush he was in a unit tasked with defending the United States from Soviet Bombers? A real concern back then? That he VOLUNTEERED to go to Viet Nam?

My father volunteered for that second tour by the way. My Father started out in the Guard and moved to Regular Army by the way.

 

[red states rule]

Seems they have 'rethought' what was done:

http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/ci_7070500?source=email

I wonder why they "rethought" their actions? Perhaps the outrage from the folks?

 

[Doug]

RetiredGySgt: I don't see how your father's experience contradicts what I have just written. I didn't encounter any officers or NCO's who were "disillusioned" or actively against the war.

Rather, they had no illusions in our political leaders -- or if they did, they kept them to themselves. I never met any who were gung-ho, let's-go-stop-the-Commies-in-Vietnam-or-they'll-be-in-California-next. Even my CO in AIT, who was Special Forces and had just come back from years in Indochina, was not like that --- far from it. Not having illusions is a different thing from being disaffected.

Soldiers have to serve under whoever gets elected as Commander-in-chief, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton included. They have to follow the orders of whoever is appointed to be their superior officer. These people are not always the brave, brilliant commanders of Hollywood movies. There are a thousand memoirs by soldiers which testify to this. You just do your duty anyway. This necessarily leads to a certain attitude, which we can call "realism".

As for Mr Bush and his service in the Air National Guard. I have no idea what he was thinking at the time. Perhaps he was very keen to get over to Nam and carry a rifle in the boonies, but reluctantly decided his talents would be better spent guarding the skies of Texas from Soviet bombers and with a heavy heart got his father to make a few phone calls. Who knows? I just know that among his generation there was very little feeling that America was in immediate peril from Vietnamese Communists, and that our leaders were confused and divided about what to do over there, and that this affected how everyone acted then.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

RetiredGySgt: I don't see how your father's experience contradicts what I have just written. I didn't encounter any officers or NCO's who were "disillusioned" or actively against the war.

Rather, they had no illusions in our political leaders -- or if they did, they kept them to themselves. I never met any who were gung-ho, let's-go-stop-the-Commies-in-Vietnam-or-they'll-be-in-California-next. Even my CO in AIT, who was Special Forces and had just come back from years in Indochina, was not like that --- far from it. Not having illusions is a different thing from being disaffected.

Soldiers have to serve under whoever gets elected as Commander-in-chief, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton included. They have to follow the orders of whoever is appointed to be their superior officer. These people are not always the brave, brilliant commanders of Hollywood movies. There are a thousand memoirs by soldiers which testify to this. You just do your duty anyway. This necessarily leads to a certain attitude, which we can call "realism".

As for Mr Bush and his service in the Air National Guard. I have no idea what he was thinking at the time. Perhaps he was very keen to get over to Nam and carry a rifle in the boonies, but reluctantly decided his talents would be better spent guarding the skies of Texas from Soviet bombers and with a heavy heart got his father to make a few phone calls. Who knows? I just know that among his generation there was very little feeling that America was in immediate peril from Vietnamese Communists, and that our leaders were confused and divided about what to do over there, and that this affected how everyone acted then.

There is NO evidence Bush got his daddy to call anyone. That would be why Rather had to use forged documents to make his claims of favoritism. There were no waiting lists for the Guard either.

And he didn't protect the skies of Texas, he was assigned to a squadron task with protecting the US from Soviet Bombers, few of them would arrive in the US via Texas.

The Air National Guard is a large part , or was back then, of our Air defense in case of attack. He also did not try to go to Viet Nam to carry a rifle. There was a test program to see if his aircraft could be used in some way in Viet Nam, he volunteered and was rejected because they wanted longer serving pilots. More senior people. The aircraft was not designed to carry munitions for ground attack so had very little use in Viet Nam.

Before joining the Marine Corps I also served in the National Guard. The claims made against Bush are ludicrous on their face. They are with out merit. The man flew an outdated ONE engine intercepter that was known for killing pilots. He flew it more often and for longer then required by his billet. And for his trouble? He gets bad mouthed by people that do not know what they are talking about.

Remind me of Dan Rather's military service, Bill Clinton's. Once again for the slow, the reality is that Guard units WERE called up and sent to Viet Nam. Guard pilots were sent to Viet Nam. Further the draft was hardly a death sentence.

 

[midcan5]

Leave it to the left to really smear and insult members of the US military, while creating made up smears to take the heat off their smears and insults

The truth shall set you free. That was the way it was, do think youth has changed? Think what the reaction would be today if the draft came back. Sorry, Red, I was there and calling an honest comment a smear is getting old. Are you really so controlled by a mindset that allows no real thought? Seems so. Still have my draft notice.

 

[doniston]

he pulled it out of his ass and declared it as official info, as most liberals do.

and you decided automatically that it wasn't---as ASSholes do.

 

[doniston]

So those who served in the National Guard did not serve "honorably"?

The left right now is like a drowning man. Grasping at anythng to keep afloat

I never said that. I was speaking specifically of Bush, and there seems to be plenty of evidence arround that his service was not quite Kosher

As to your second point. if that is true, how is it that it is the right that is going down for the third time?????

 

[doniston]

IMHO Your sig should be changed


The Road To Hell Is Paved With Liberals But the people traveling there are conseratives

 

[Doug]

RetiredGySgt: You are right about the Guard during Vietnam: "During the Vietnam war, almost 23,000 Army and Air Guardsmen were called up for a year of active duty; some 8,700 were deployed to Vietnam. " (From the Guard's website.)

However, I can tell you that among everyone I was with in Basic, getting into the National Guard was seen as a very desirable thing, because you were probably not going to have to go to Vietnam. We had one guy who had achieved that, and most people I suspect were envious of him. No one resented him. But then no one resented 4Fers particularly either.

I don't think George Bush was a draft-dodger. However it was that he got into the Guard -- and I promise you it was not an easy thing to do then, because there were lots of applicants, for the reasons I have mentioned -- he played by the rules that were in existence at the time.

And for sure flying military jets is not something that anyone who is highly devoted to his own safety will want to do -- my brother-in-law was a jet pilot in the fifties and I still remember him showing me his class yearbook, with all the faces crossed out.

But the reality was, after Tet, there was a general mood of confusion, despondency, lack of vigorous support for the war among many, and outright opposition to the war among others, among the American people. Most Americans would have liked to win, no doubt about it. But people respond to leadership, and our leaders -- from our national politicians down to the preachers and teachers and journalists -- were not sending out a unified signal on this one.

The American people voted for Nixon in 1968, because they thought he would somehow get us out of the war, without selling out the whole shop. And he did get us out, and Congress then proceeded to give away the shop by cutting off funding to the South Vietnamese.

But there was little protest at this from the American people, not even -- maybe not even especially -- from the military, which had begun to have serious problems with morale in the Army. (Even though in hindsight you can make a good case that had we stuck it out in Vietnam, we could have won there, given that the Communist infrastructure in the South was destroyed by Tet, and we were getting better at fighting, and also at doing the Civic Action thing.)

 

[Edward]

"Scanned by the TSA?" Is that some higher clearance I don't know about. So the FBI background check a soldier goes through and gets clearance to carry a full auto weapon isn't good enough?

Where's your logic?

No it's not anymore than its enough that members of Congress have received clearance. People aren't supposed to be treated differently simply because of who they are while others are forced to go through layers of red tape and to have them and their baggage screened. To think that troops are somehow better than the rest of us COMMON AMERICANS is outrageous. I don't care how many times an individual has been screened before by other agencies or departments. If we as regular Americans must be screened then the SUPERIOR AMERICANS should be too. The next time I see a soldier I will bow to the ground and say: "Your Highness and Holiness, I will worship at your feet. Please dispense thy special wisdom and rights unto one such as I. I know your shit isn't the same color as mine."

 

[Edward]

Bullshit. But more importantly they are US MILITARY personnel. It doesn't matter if they were scanned or not. Remind me of all the shootings in Us Airports by US military personnel in Uniform returning from Iraq or anywhere else. All the robberies, all the crime committed by them.

I know from now on the Airport should refuse entrance to any federal Marshal, any city police man that hasn't been scanned and checked for "contraband" as well. Ohh and since those people do carry loaded guns banned for that too.

If a police officer wants to board a plane, or enter an airport terminal they will be screened just like anyone else. They shouldn't be given preferential treatment simply because they are police officers anymore than a group of troops should be given preferential treatment. The airport personnel acted appropriately in screening the flight, and its passengers and to refuse them from entering the terminal. In fact, there have been times when entire planes of Americans have been detained and forced to stay on the plane for hours at a time and they weren't given preferential treatment so why the hell should these soldiers be treated any better. It is outrageous to suggest that I as a passenger on a flight could be forced to stay on the plane for hours and not allowed in the terminal but that soldiers should automatically be allowed into the terminal. Maybe that is one of the perks of being a soldier. You get to be considered a VIP and all people will bow to you and say: HOW CAN WE PLEASE YOUR HIGHNESSES.

 

[Edward]

Bullshit? Think before you spew, and do a little bit of research. Oh, and hey, now you are making the point that I refuted with my other comment which you said "wasn't the point". What a surprise.

Just because you are a US servicemember, cop, whatever doesn't mean you get to skip TSA screenings. And shootings in airports is irrelevant. Lmao...thats not why TSA screens you, obviously.

I agree with you completely on this. You don't suddenly get a free ride because you are a service member, cop, Congressmen or for that matter anything else. It's not about security alone, it is also about bringing in contraband. To think that somehow these soldiers should be given a free ride is idiotic. Also, if this was just another plane of Americans they could have expected to be detained so why should these soldiers be any different?