Returning Troops Banned From Airport Terminal

[CorpMediaSux]

OMG, sort it out. Like for real. Is this the issue to get riled up over? It sounds like Oakland airport fucked up royally and like most people who fucked up and can't admit it, are compounding the issue in the post-incident P.R. battle. But you guys? This is not exactly the biggest deal. No one was spat on. No one was the victim of a heckler. No one burned an American flag and no one told these soldiers they were unpatriotic terrorists. They were the victims of a reactionary and incompetent airport administration. This sort of makes them like every other American. Does it doubly sting because it happened as they were returning from our failed Iraq policy, of course.

But what strikes me as ridiculous is the intensely close attention the right pays to the treatment of troops once they arrive back at home and the lack of attention many pay to troop conditions, casualties and injuries on the actual battlefield. When people talk about the horrific conditions of combat the response is "Well thats just how it is." Soldiers are held up for a few hours at an airport and its the greatest shame the nation has ever endured, cue the dramatic gnashing of teeth. Sort. it. out.

 

[Larkinn]

So your now claiming that this "threat" of armed men were just hamdled by baggage handlers? Some threat ehh?

When was the claim that they were a threat? Everyone, whether a threat or not, goes through security or gets clearance. If you don't get one or the other, you don't get through. You wanting to make up rules as you go along is both stupid and ignorant.

It can happen. I have by-passed security because of military orders.

Then you need military clearance, yes? You don't automatically get to bypass security because you are US military.

 

[CSM]

When was the claim that they were a threat? Everyone, whether a threat or not, goes through security or gets clearance. If you don't get one or the other, you don't get through. You wanting to make up rules as you go along is both stupid and ignorant.



Then you need military clearance, yes? You don't automatically get to bypass security because you are US military.

true.

 

[midcan5]

PS....Your post shows you are a scumbag...

Alpha, calling another a scumbag? damn, you must be a real asshole. There take that, simpleton. I know many vets and no one had any problems, did a nut somewhere spit on someone? maybe, but nuts still exist, witness the asshole Alpha1. Doesn't mean a damn thing except to revisionists who cannot move forward but can only blame.

 

[Alpha1]

Alpha, calling another a scumbag? damn, you must be a real asshole. There take that, simpleton. I know many vets and no one had any problems, did a nut somewhere spit on someone? maybe, but nuts still exist, witness the asshole Alpha1. Doesn't mean a damn thing except to revisionists who cannot move forward but can only blame.

The only revisionists shit going on here is your post...insisting spitting on returning VN vets, caling them baby killers and murders never happened....like Limpdick is the only authority on the subject......

Quote:
Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
"In this startling book, Jerry Lembcke demonstrates that not a single incident of this sort has been convincingly documented. Rather, the anti-war Left saw in veterans a natural ally, and the relationship between anti-war forces and most veterans was defined by mutual support. Indeed one soldier wrote angrily to Vice President Spiro Agnew that the only Americans who seemed concerned about the soldier's welfare were the anti-war activists.While the veterans were sometimes made to feel uncomfortable about their service, this sense of unease was, Lembcke argues, more often rooted in the political practices of the Right. Tracing a range of conflicts in the twentieth century, the book illustrates how regimes engaged in unpopular conflicts often vilify their domestic opponents for "stabbing the boys in the back."Concluding with an account of the powerful role played by Hollywood in cementing the myth of the betrayed veteran through such films as Coming Home, Taxi Driver, and Rambo, Jerry Lembcke's book stands as one of the most important, original, and controversial works of cultural history in recent years.""

from Google book search

“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over” Joseph Goebbels
some news accounts that mention spitting do exist, although there has been no visual evidence to support those accounts. After a review of contemporary news sources, Northwestern Law School professor James Lindgren documented dozens of news accounts that discussed spitting.[citation needed] A December 27, 1971, television report on CBS Evening News, for example, told of a returning veteran named Delmar Pickett who said he was spat on in Seattle. [1][2] Spitting Image contrasts with author and columnist Bob Greene's 1989 book Homecoming in which Greene interviews several dozen Vietnam veterans and focuses on firsthand accounts of mistreatment from anti-war protesters. [3]Greene's book contains 63 accounts of spitting. Lembke claims that Greene's accounts to "have elements of such exaggeration that one has to question the veracity of the entire account." He also points out that there were several newspaper accounts of pro-war demonstrators spitting on anti-war demonstrators and suggests that these accounts may have been reinterpreted over the years.[4] Yet the recently uncovered evidence of contemporaneous accounts of spitting have forced Lembke to retreat from his more extreme prior claims, such as: "The truth is that nobody spat on Vietnam veterans." [5] Now Lembke appears to acknowledge that there likely were some incidents of actual spitting.

..Alpha1
__________________

 

[RetiredGySgt]

When was the claim that they were a threat? Everyone, whether a threat or not, goes through security or gets clearance. If you don't get one or the other, you don't get through. You wanting to make up rules as you go along is both stupid and ignorant.



Then you need military clearance, yes? You don't automatically get to bypass security because you are US military.

Umm, you are aware these men WERE on orders also? That would be the "military" clearance part.

 

[RightWingSpirit]

And you know that how? Through BS you read online? lol - You forget Bush Jr and Cheney, draft dodgers par excellence.

how exactly is that relevant to soldiers being denied entry at an airport?

Dems must love the view from up inside their rears.

 

[jillian]

Umm, you are aware these men WERE on orders also? That would be the "military" clearance part.

Actually, it's my understanding that miltary personnel would have to check their weapons prior to entering an airport... even Kennedy. But I'm checking on that

 

[Doug]

It's true that California has lots of liberals, and it is true that liberals are, shall we say, uncomfortable with American military power, and it is true that in Northern California in particular this discomfort shades into something worse among some people .... but, this sounds to me like it was 75% bureaucratic wooden-headedness and CYA-ism, and 25% anti-military-ism. In fact, "anti-military" might be too strong a term. What probably was in play was lack of pro-military feeling.

Put it this way: in any normal, healthy society, the citizenry appreciate the people who defend them. Even if they despise the government of the moment, they will honor and love the people who face death in order that they can live their lives in peace.

So in a healthy society, when the airport staff hear that a planeload of military people is arriving, they will happily go out of their way to make them feel welcome. If this or that bureaucratic rule is in place, they will find ways to get around it, or ignore it, or ameliorate it.

Right? Isn't that obvious?

But in Northern California, the military is seen by a lot of people as something alien, if not a bit wicked. Their hearts are not lifted by the sight of fighter jets, or battleships, or people in uniform.

So it's easy, given that atmosphere, for some bureaucrat to interpret a bureaucratic rule in such a way as to avoid the undesirable sight of what many of the population there see as either war criminals, or the dupes of war criminals, or in any case not as people to be proud of and honor.

They say -- or used to say -- in the Army that there are two kinds of Supply Sergeants: the kind who, when you need something, can find a rule in the rule-book that will authorize you to have it; and the other kind, who can find a rule in the rule-book that forbids you to have it.

It all depends on the attitude of the people interpreting the rules. If our society gets enough people who hate, or dislike, or even just disdain the military, we are in big trouble.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Actually, it's my understanding that miltary personnel would have to check their weapons prior to entering an airport... even Kennedy. But I'm checking on that

Generally what happens in a military unit is the weapons are stacked and x number are chosen to guard said weapons.

 

[RightWingSpirit]

Put it this way: in any normal, healthy society, the citizenry appreciate the people who defend them. Even if they despise the government of the moment, they will honor and love the people who face death in order that they can live their lives in peace.

It all depends on the attitude of the people interpreting the rules. If our society gets enough people who hate, or dislike, or even just disdain the military, we are in big trouble.

over the past 10 or so years,I've noticed how politics and psychology are bedfellows.
Why do liberals hate the military? Were they born into wealthy families who do not have any military experience?

 

[midcan5]

Why do liberals hate the military? Were they born into wealthy families who do not have any military experience?

More liberals have served in the military than most of the contemporary right wingers who pretend they love the military until it costs them a dime, including W, Cheney, Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity etc. Saw Daniel K. Inouye on Burn's War last evening, amazing fellow. Most of the GIs i know who actually served are liberal in their worldview. Not sure why the brain washing worked so well on you righties. It mystifies me. We all came from lower class working families.

 

[Doug]

Actually, military service can be a mind-broadening experience. It's the very essence of democracy, because all races and classes get thrown together. If you went in having an unthinking worship of Authority, you'll get cured of that pretty fast.

If Hollywood has convinced you that all American NCOs and officers are kind, brave and intelligent, you will get cured of that pretty fast. If you happen to think that the American millitary is made up of wicked sadists, you will get cured of that pretty quick too (although not while you're going through boot camp).

The paradox of the military is that, by and large, it's made up of ordinary people, who are in a situation where they might have to do very extraordinary things. The fellow who was changing tires at the filling station has to step over corpses to get onto Omaha Beach. The guy you didn't like very much in high school gives you covering fire at Iwo Jima. (Or, more likely, lies next to you while you both try to dig holes with your fingernails in solidified lava.)

If you are lucky, you will run into some NCOs and officers who are, to one degree or another, above-average in kindness, courage, and intelligence.

You will get a chance to see the best and the worst in other races.

Stereotypes of any sort are hard to retain in military service.

You'll get to see socialism at its best, and you will also see the weaknesses of socialism and why nationalized property tends to get mistreated and appropriated for private gain. Ask the old-timers how.

And you'll get to experience the dangers of concentrated power. Or, if not the dangers, at least the annoyances if you get a chickenshit lieutenant.

Now does this make people liberal, or conservative? I would think that it would tend to liberalize conservatives, and conservatize liberals.

In any case, it's a great shame that our young people do not, as a matter of course, serve a term in the military.

 

[AllieBaba]

More liberals have served in the military than most of the contemporary right wingers who pretend they love the military until it costs them a dime, including W, Cheney, Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity etc. Saw Daniel K. Inouye on Burn's War last evening, amazing fellow. Most of the GIs i know who actually served are liberal in their worldview. Not sure why the brain washing worked so well on you righties. It mystifies me. We all came from lower class working families.

You have some stats to go with that? Otherwise, I'll assume this is just some of your own brand of brain washing, lol.

 

[red states rule]

Why is it a shock to see where kook left wingers do not want the troops around or treat them like second class citizens?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

George Bush served in the National Guard, he flew an ancient out of date interceptor that killed pilots by falling out of the sky. he volunteered to serve in Viet Nam. He was Honorable discharged from service, claiming other wise is the biggest fucking lie out there. It requires one to subscribe to fairy tales to believe it, to accept obvious forgeries to accept it.

Not ONLY did Bush fly the air craft he flew MORE hours and missions then he was required to during his service. he did not stop flying until the aircraft was announced to be retiring and he did not have enough time left to transition to a different aircraft.

But do keep telling us the left wing fantasy stories. Remind us of Ted Kennedy's years in the Military, of Hillary Clinton's years, How about your best Buddy, draft dodging Bill Clinton, the man that LIED to a Colonel and snuck off to England to avoid serving in any capacity? Did Nancy Pelosie serve? How about Reid? In fact hardly any of your Liberal's served at all.

But do claim other wise.

 

[red states rule]

The leftwants to ignore this story as they did when Kerry called the troops uneducated and terrorists

Or when Durbin compared the troops to Nazi's and Pol Pot

Or Reid when he said the war is lost before the surge took place

Or when the Moveon.org ad hit. They waited over a week before they said anything about it

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[jillian]

Generally what happens in a military unit is the weapons are stacked and x number are chosen to guard said weapons.

That sounds like about what I heard. I'll have the answer from the horse's mouth in another day or so.

 

[doniston]

George Bush served in the National Guard, he flew an ancient out of date interceptor that killed pilots by falling out of the sky. he volunteered to serve in Viet Nam. He was Honorable discharged from service, claiming other wise is the biggest fucking lie out there. It requires one to subscribe to fairy tales to believe it, to accept obvious forgeries to accept it.

Not ONLY did Bush fly the air craft he flew MORE hours and missions then he was required to during his service. he did not stop flying until the aircraft was announced to be retiring and he did not have enough time left to transition to a different aircraft.

But do keep telling us the left wing fantasy stories. Remind us of Ted Kennedy's years in the Military, of Hillary Clinton's years, How about your best Buddy, draft dodging Bill Clinton, the man that LIED to a Colonel and snuck off to England to avoid serving in any capacity? Did Nancy Pelosie serve? How about Reid? In fact hardly any of your Liberal's served at all.

But do claim other wise.

I have no objection to people who didn't serve, being in places of authority. (apparently that sticks in your craw) What bothers me are those who "CLAIM" to have served "HONORABLY" (like Bush), WHO apparently DID NOT.

 

[red states rule]

I have no objection to people who didn't serv4e, being in places pf authority. (apparently that sticks in your craw) What bothers me are those who "CLAIM" to have served "HONORABLY" (like Bush, WHO DID NOT.

So those who served in the National Guard did not serve "honorably"?

The left right now is like a drowning man. Grasping at anythng to keep afloat