Rethinking the Hockey Stick and Hide the Decline

Discussion in 'Environment' started by IanC, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. IanC
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    IanC Gold Member

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    If Mann et al had simply retained the data showing that proxies do not show correlatio with present temperature, would it have made a difference?

    My problem with AGW is that data is twisted into misdirection. If there had been more honesty and less exaggeration would we be further ahead in our understanding? I don't like being tricked. And once climate science integrity has been compromised it is hard to get it back.

    Or was it necessary to inflate the rhetoric just to get people to notice?

    Just wondering if the ends justify the means.
     
  2. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

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    Hide the decline didn't mean they were hiding data showing a decline in temps, no. It meant Phil Jones tried to hide Mann Deee-lite CD's so it should have been "Hide the Deee-lite"

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4D1HSL7P98]YouTube - Dee Lite - Groove is in the Heart (Music Video)[/ame]
     
  3. IanC
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    IanC Gold Member

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    this video is more appropriate
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAlMomLvu_4]YouTube - Censoring The Decrease in Global Temperatures[/ame]
     
  4. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    Decrease in global temperatures?

    August 2010 UAH Global Temperature Update: +0.51 deg. C Roy Spencer, Ph. D.

    Now Spencer is hardly a friend of those pointing out the warming. But look at his graph. The low of 2008 is higher than any of the previous lows. And the period from 2002 to2007 is higher than any of the previous highs with the exception of 1998.

    Now, according to GISS, the warmest years prior to 2010 have been 1998 and 2005. And it looks like 2010 will be competing with those years for the warmest year. That is three very hot years in a period of 13 years. And I'll bet that we will have a year that exceeds any of the three before 2015.

    The decrease of ice in the alpine glaciers, in the Ice Caps of Greenland and Antarctica, and in the Arctic Ocean definatly gives lie to the idea that tempertures are decreasing.
     
  5. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    Ian, just because your side is addicted to lying does not mean that the scientists are. For that you have posit a worldwide conspiracy among scientists of many differant political systems. I assume you have been fitted for a tinfoil hat.
     
  6. camcooh2
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    camcooh2 Member

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    Only liberals believe the ends justify the means. It's one easy way to identify them.
     
  7. Matthew
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    Matthew Blue dog all the way!

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    The decline in 2007-2008 was caused by a strong La nina, which has the opposite effect of El nino. On top of that we've been in the deepest solar minimum in close to 100 years, so that has some effect on the climate system. Many things are against warming right now, but some how we're still seeing record after record globally.

    1999-2000 also seen a strong La nina after the super El nino of 1997-1998, which had cooler temperature. I'd go as far as to say if we where to get out of the "worst"/deepest solar min in the last 100 years its estimated -.1 to -.15c of cooling would likely lead to years like 2009, 2010 smashing 1998 and making it look like a joke. Get a el nino that doesn't slide into a strong la nina within the same year, but to moderate or remains nino in some form over the whole year then you will get what is called a ass kicking year for 1998 and 2005.

    La nina is also bad for a rising trend to and induces a cooling effect on the global ocean temperature avg, which case also does the same over land.

    So you can talk about decline in 2007-2008, but also 1999-2000, but that is short term effects of the ENSO. All this is just masking the warming effects that has increased by .15c+ since 2000, which is why years with a weaker nino and low solar forcing is competing with 1998.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2010
  8. westwall
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    westwall USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Try finding some unadulterated data there olfraud. I dare you. It can't be found. All the data that NOAA has collected for the last decade is useless. GISS gets their raw data from NOAA so guess what.....yep you guessed it, worthless as well. Take all of your hot records and toss them out the window, they don't exist except in the minds of the alarmists who allowed false data to populate the archives of the world. The same holds true in Australia and China and New Zealand.

    Epic fail.
     
  9. westwall
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    westwall USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    You need to quit with the juvenile "you lied" BS the only side that has PROVABLY NOT TOLD THE TRUTH IS YOURS!
     
  10. Matthew
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    Matthew Blue dog all the way!

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    Our climate should be cooling westwall, because the downward slope in solar output since 1950 and really so now being that we're within the deepest solar minimum since 1910 and have to go back to the dalton of 1800-1830 to find one that was much larger then now. The question that should be asked is why on gods earth are we at the highest levels since 900-1,200 ad right now? Shouldn't be.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2010

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