Restoring a fire resistant forest

[AZGAL]

interesting thread

 

[Leo123]

it's not stupid, moron. The trees are their crop. Of course they protect them.

I'm asking for evidence of these heroic logger firemen in the west. Nobody is giving any. Yes, loggers are hired by governments to help fight fires, but logging companies don't jump out and fight western fires on their own. That makes zero sense for their bottom line.

Eastern forests are mostly privately owned. Western forests are mostly public. In the west, logging companies don't own the forests they log. If a western forest burns, the logging companies know they can just relocate operations to a different government-owned western forest. It would be a pointless financial loss for logging companies to fight fires in the west.

That is total B.S. And the evidence is that we did not experience these super wild fires when logging was generally allowed in U.S. forests. You have to be a complete fool not to realize it or be tragically uninformed.

 

[skookerasbil]

it's not stupid, moron. The trees are their crop. Of course they protect them.

I'm asking for evidence of these heroic logger firemen in the west. Nobody is giving any. Yes, loggers are hired by governments to help fight fires, but logging companies don't jump out and fight western fires on their own. That makes zero sense for their bottom line.

Eastern forests are mostly privately owned. Western forests are mostly public. In the west, logging companies don't own the forests they log. If a western forest burns, the logging companies know they can just relocate operations to a different government-owned western forest. It would be a pointless financial loss for logging companies to fight fires in the west.

That is total B.S. And the evidence is that we did not experience these super wild fires when logging was generally allowed in U.S. forests. You have to be a complete fool not to realize it or be tragically uninformed.

Well you know what they say about people who are really into religion!

 

[mamooth]

Fire Mitigation

https://www.bdtimber.com/services1-cdjx

That showed loggers thin forests when they get paid to thin forests.

That's an entirely different thing from showing how loggers jump in and fight active forest fires, and that they do it better than the Forest Service. That's what was claimed, and that's the evidence I asked for.

I'll take your diversion there as your admission that you couldn't support the claim.

 

[westwall]

Fire Mitigation

https://www.bdtimber.com/services1-cdjx

That showed loggers thin forests when they get paid to thin forests.

That's an entirely different thing from showing how loggers jump in and fight active forest fires, and that they do it better than the Forest Service. That's what was claimed, and that's the evidence I asked for.

I'll take your diversion there as your admission that you couldn't support the claim.

Poor dumb kitty...


"ONE MORE CHANCE FOR FIRE FIGHTING TRAINING Len Young, Chief Fire Warden for the Clearwater-Potlatch Timber Protection Agency, announced he will be hosting training (the last one of the season by the CT) for COE employees, loggers, CT employees and other fire fighters in the area. The RT 130 Fire Refresher and WCT (pack test) will be held on June 19th. Start time and location for WCT is 0700 hours at the Orofino High School Track and Field. For loggers/equipment operators who want to sign up for IDL fire contracts, the test is required. The RT-130 (WFSTAR) will start at 0900 hours located at the C-PTPA Shop. You can sign up or ask questions by contacting the C-PTPA office at 208-476-5612. Please let other loggers that might be interested in this training know about it.

https://dbs.idaho.gov/newsroom/logging_newsletters/2017Jun-Logging_Safety.pdf

 

[Sunsettommy]

Fire Mitigation

https://www.bdtimber.com/services1-cdjx

That showed loggers thin forests when they get paid to thin forests.

That's an entirely different thing from showing how loggers jump in and fight active forest fires, and that they do it better than the Forest Service. That's what was claimed, and that's the evidence I asked for.

I'll take your diversion there as your admission that you couldn't support the claim.

Poor dumb kitty...


"ONE MORE CHANCE FOR FIRE FIGHTING TRAINING Len Young, Chief Fire Warden for the Clearwater-Potlatch Timber Protection Agency, announced he will be hosting training (the last one of the season by the CT) for COE employees, loggers, CT employees and other fire fighters in the area. The RT 130 Fire Refresher and WCT (pack test) will be held on June 19th. Start time and location for WCT is 0700 hours at the Orofino High School Track and Field. For loggers/equipment operators who want to sign up for IDL fire contracts, the test is required. The RT-130 (WFSTAR) will start at 0900 hours located at the C-PTPA Shop. You can sign up or ask questions by contacting the C-PTPA office at 208-476-5612. Please let other loggers that might be interested in this training know about it.

https://dbs.idaho.gov/newsroom/logging_newsletters/2017Jun-Logging_Safety.pdf

He makes clear that he knows little about how Forests are managed. I was taught back in FFA classes in the late 1970's that Loggers are part of the group who are involved in firefighting, getting some basic training.

 

[Leo123]

Fire Mitigation

https://www.bdtimber.com/services1-cdjx

That showed loggers thin forests when they get paid to thin forests.

That's an entirely different thing from showing how loggers jump in and fight active forest fires, and that they do it better than the Forest Service. That's what was claimed, and that's the evidence I asked for.

I'll take your diversion there as your admission that you couldn't support the claim.

Fire Mitigation

https://www.bdtimber.com/services1-cdjx

That showed loggers thin forests when they get paid to thin forests.

That's an entirely different thing from showing how loggers jump in and fight active forest fires, and that they do it better than the Forest Service. That's what was claimed, and that's the evidence I asked for.

I'll take your diversion there as your admission that you couldn't support the claim.

Where did I make the claim that loggers put out fires better? We need to work together with loggers instead of freezing them out because of an owl. This, from a NYT article:

"The fact is excessive fuel, and thus the fire hazard, can be reduced in three ways. First, is to use mechanical thinning of vegetation and logging."

"Our forests, those who live near them, those who fight the fires, and the public who use the forest and pay the bills, deserve a forest policy that places public safety, environmental health, economic well-being and fiscal responsibility above the flawed ideal of “letting nature take its course,” held by powerful environmental lobbyists and the legislators and bureaucrats who crave their support. It’s time for the government stop fiddling as our forests burn, and tend to the public good. It must increase and expedite logging, especially in forests where more standing timber is dead or dying than growing and limit court challenges of forest management plans. Let the logging begin!"

Harvesting Trees Will Prevent Fires - NYTimes.com

 

[westwall]

Fire Mitigation

https://www.bdtimber.com/services1-cdjx

That showed loggers thin forests when they get paid to thin forests.

That's an entirely different thing from showing how loggers jump in and fight active forest fires, and that they do it better than the Forest Service. That's what was claimed, and that's the evidence I asked for.

I'll take your diversion there as your admission that you couldn't support the claim.

Fire Mitigation

https://www.bdtimber.com/services1-cdjx

That showed loggers thin forests when they get paid to thin forests.

That's an entirely different thing from showing how loggers jump in and fight active forest fires, and that they do it better than the Forest Service. That's what was claimed, and that's the evidence I asked for.

I'll take your diversion there as your admission that you couldn't support the claim.

Where did I make the claim that loggers put out fires better? We need to work together with loggers instead of freezing them out because of an owl. This, from a NYT article:

"The fact is excessive fuel, and thus the fire hazard, can be reduced in three ways. First, is to use mechanical thinning of vegetation and logging."

"Our forests, those who live near them, those who fight the fires, and the public who use the forest and pay the bills, deserve a forest policy that places public safety, environmental health, economic well-being and fiscal responsibility above the flawed ideal of “letting nature take its course,” held by powerful environmental lobbyists and the legislators and bureaucrats who crave their support. It’s time for the government stop fiddling as our forests burn, and tend to the public good. It must increase and expedite logging, especially in forests where more standing timber is dead or dying than growing and limit court challenges of forest management plans. Let the logging begin!"

Harvesting Trees Will Prevent Fires - NYTimes.com

It's the dumb kitty. All she can do is lie. The facts are simple, in a forest fire the loggers are often the first responders because they are ALREADY THERE!

 

[gipper]

How we can restore our forests to be more fire resistant.

At least you didn’t claim the fires are a consequence of AGW. You must be learning something.

 

[mamooth]

Poor dumb kitty...

Your paragraph said that loggers who wish to sign up for IDL fire contarcts -- that is, loggers who wish to be paid by the government to fight fires -- can go in for training.

Why did you think that supported your side's fantasy claims about heroic loggers leaping on western fires by themselves out of the goodness of their hearts, and doing it so much better than the awful gubmint? After all, your link there showed the loggers there are just one among many parties all working for the government.

I pointed out, the first one to do so, in post #19, that the government hires loggers for firefighting. The kook brigade finally managed to figure out the same thing, and then they all started screaming I'm a liar for saying it first. Not the brightest bunch, the deniers.

So, the question: Are deniers here all profoundly retarded, or do they act so badly due to their fanatical Stalinist hatred of anyone who is not of TheParty? Discuss.

 

[westwall]

Poor dumb kitty...

Your paragraph said that loggers who wish to sign up for IDL fire contarcts -- that is, loggers who wish to be paid by the government to fight fires -- can go in for training.

Why did you think that supported your side's fantasy claims about heroic loggers leaping on western fires by themselves out of the goodness of their hearts, and doing it so much better than the awful gubmint? After all, your link there showed the loggers there are just one among many parties all working for the government.

I pointed out, the first one to do so, in post #19, that the government hires loggers for firefighting. The kook brigade finally managed to figure out the same thing, and then they all started screaming I'm a liar for saying it first. Not the brightest bunch, the deniers.

So, the question: Are deniers here all profoundly retarded, or do they act so badly due to their fanatical Stalinist hatred of anyone who is not of TheParty? Discuss.

And loggers who just want to know can go too. When i was a Hot Shot back in the 1960's we had loggers come and get training from us.

 

[Leo123]

Your paragraph said that loggers who wish to sign up for IDL fire contarcts -- that is, loggers who wish to be paid by the government to fight fires -- can go in for training./

I think it's great that loggers want to sign up for fire contracts. I was addressing the general ban on logging in national forests, the 'let it burn' policy of the forest service and the banning of use of our national forests for fuel, lumber, etc. based on an owl that now has 0 environment because of a massive fire. Something that logging could never have done but, the Sierra Club and the environmental lobby obliterated their environment with PC political bullshit based on nothing but emotion.

Why did you think that supported your side's fantasy claims about heroic loggers leaping on western fires by themselves out of the goodness of their hearts, and doing it so much better than the awful gubmint? After all, your link there showed the loggers there are just one among many parties all working for the government.

Please provide proof I ever said anything about 'heroic loggers leaping on western fires' otherwise please apologize. It seems pretty obvious you have a penchant for hatred of our logging industry. I'll wager that you're a tree-hugger. Go out to Redding, CA and hug some charcoal.

I pointed out, the first one to do so, in post #19, that the government hires loggers for firefighting. The kook brigade finally managed to figure out the same thing, and then they all started screaming I'm a liar for saying it first. Not the brightest bunch, the deniers.

So, the question: Are deniers here all profoundly retarded, or do they act so badly due to their fanatical Stalinist hatred of anyone who is not of TheParty? Discuss.

You can't 'hire loggers' when you have already effectively put the logging industry out of business by denying them access to their product. (No industry no loggers) [/quote]

 

[mamooth]

I was addressing the general ban on logging in national forests,

Huh? What general ban? There's all kinds of logging in national forests going on now.

the 'let it burn' policy of the forest service

Talking points, get them consistent. It the 'extinguish everything' policy the problem, or is the 'let it burn' policy the problem?

and the banning of use of our national forests for fuel, lumber, etc. based on an owl

What are you babbling about? Only a small percentage of western Forests were put off-limits due to the Spotted Owl.

that now has 0 environment because of a massive fire.

Again, what are you babbling about? Spotted Owl habitat covers scattered locations across the west. Unless a fire burned the whole west, what you claim could not have happened.

Something that logging could never have done but, the Sierra Club and the environmental lobby obliterated their environment with PC political bullshit based on nothing but emotion.

You just peddled nonsense because you had been brainwashed into believing it. The reason you were so easily fooled, on that issue and on every issue, is because you ignore reason and run entirely on emotion. If you see a story that confirms what you 'feel', you believe it instantly without question. In that way, you're the polar opposite of us reason-based Americans, the liberals, who run purely on the facts.

Please provide proof I ever said anything about 'heroic loggers leaping on western fires' otherwise please apologize.

You peddled a nonsense story about the Spotted Owl blocking firefighting efforts by the noble loggers, and a nonsense story about loggers being the first ones to fight fires on government land, even without government payment. Do you have any regrets about telling such stories, or do you only regret getting called on it?

 

[Leo123]

I was addressing the general ban on logging in national forests,

Huh? What general ban? There's all kinds of logging in national forests going on now.

the 'let it burn' policy of the forest service

Talking points, get them consistent. It the 'extinguish everything' policy the problem, or is the 'let it burn' policy the problem?

and the banning of use of our national forests for fuel, lumber, etc. based on an owl

What are you babbling about? Only a small percentage of western Forests were put off-limits due to the Spotted Owl.

that now has 0 environment because of a massive fire.

Again, what are you babbling about? Spotted Owl habitat covers scattered locations across the west. Unless a fire burned the whole west, what you claim could not have happened.

Something that logging could never have done but, the Sierra Club and the environmental lobby obliterated their environment with PC political bullshit based on nothing but emotion.

You just peddled nonsense because you had been brainwashed into believing it. The reason you were so easily fooled, on that issue and on every issue, is because you ignore reason and run entirely on emotion. If you see a story that confirms what you 'feel', you believe it instantly without question. In that way, you're the polar opposite of us reason-based Americans, the liberals, who run purely on the facts.

Please provide proof I ever said anything about 'heroic loggers leaping on western fires' otherwise please apologize.

You peddled a nonsense story about the Spotted Owl blocking firefighting efforts by the noble loggers, and a nonsense story about loggers being the first ones to fight fires on government land, even without government payment. Do you have any regrets about telling such stories, or do you only regret getting called on it?

You are a pompous fool intent upon denigrating anyone who disagrees with you. Your whole post is a lie. Funny how when one offers proof it is totally ignored by you in order to spew hatred. Fuck off....

 

[Leo123]

Mammoth hates people like this:

"I got to know and respect Brad Butcher better as the logging job next door has proceeded. You could set a watch each morning to the sound of gravel crunching under the tires of Butcher’s pickup truck and the diesel engine of the skidder starting-up at 7 a.m. sharp."

"It’s quickly obvious Butcher cares how the woods look after his logging. Designated bumper trees help pivot logs being cable skidded and prevent wounding the bark of remaining, standing trees."

Old School Logging

 

[Leo123]

Mammoth hates people like this:

"I got to know and respect Brad Butcher better as the logging job next door has proceeded. You could set a watch each morning to the sound of gravel crunching under the tires of Butcher’s pickup truck and the diesel engine of the skidder starting-up at 7 a.m. sharp."

"It’s quickly obvious Butcher cares how the woods look after his logging. Designated bumper trees help pivot logs being cable skidded and prevent wounding the bark of remaining, standing trees."

Old School Logging

 

[Old Rocks]

Leo, old liar, I know logging very well. My father and uncles worked on the Olympic Peninsula falling the big ceder in the '50's. There are pictures in the family of them having lunch sitting in the undercut of a very large cedar. And in the summer, the work did not start at 7:00, it started at first light. Hootowling. I worked in sawmills the first 20 years of my career as a millwright. The problem with logging and sawmilling today is the over harvest of the '80's, and automation. A sawmill of today can produce at least as much as 5 mills did at the time I started in the industry. With half the people. Same for logging. Fewer trees to log, and machinery does most of the work now. We will continue to log the National Forests, but in a different manner from now on. Predicated on what we have learned over the past decades and a warming world.

 

[Leo123]

Leo, old liar, I know logging very well. My father and uncles worked on the Olympic Peninsula falling the big ceder in the '50's. There are pictures in the family of them having lunch sitting in the undercut of a very large cedar. And in the summer, the work did not start at 7:00, it started at first light. Hootowling. I worked in sawmills the first 20 years of my career as a millwright. The problem with logging and sawmilling today is the over harvest of the '80's, and automation. A sawmill of today can produce at least as much as 5 mills did at the time I started in the industry. With half the people. Same for logging. Fewer trees to log, and machinery does most of the work now. We will continue to log the National Forests, but in a different manner from now on. Predicated on what we have learned over the past decades and a warming world.

You have no proof to call me a liar. Felling large cedars was typical as cedar was used for shingles for homes in areas that liberals populate. In any case, advances in machinery is a good thing. It allows more discrimination in selecting logs. Loggers in the forest is not a bad thing.

 

[Old Rocks]

Now where have I said loggers or logging was a bad thing? What I have said is that we overlogged in the '80's, and that we have determined that a lot of our past logging and fire control tactics were wrong headed. And that we have to change to correct past mistakes. But in logging, just like everything else, far less people are required for the same results, so there will never again be as many loggers and people employed in the lumber industry as there once were. Another agricultural enterprise that now requires a far smaller labor base.

 

[fncceo]

How we can restore our forests to be more fire resistant.

Correct me if I'm wrong... but aren't forests made of wood?