Respected Kuwaiti Scholar on NECESSITY of Beating Your Wife

[GHook93]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2ErRAtiW4Es#at=511]Kuwaiti Scholar Jassem Al-Mutawa: Wife Beating in Islam Treats Women Suffering from Masochism - YouTube[/ame]

These are from the mouth of the lion. He said them and he owns them. Nothing out of context.

Summary:
(1) Beating are not only allowed by the Koran they are promoted by the Koran.
(2) Without wife beatings the family dynamic breaks down and leads to divorce.
(3) Using harsh words towards a disobedient wife is a must, aka spousal mental abuse is an Islamic duty! Don't leave out breaking her down mentally also!
(4) Refusal of sex is a just reason to beat your wive.
(5) Beat your wive with one of the assortment of rods. They are the "Rods of Obedience." Do you see the size of some of those rods. They are huge. Broken bones all in the name of Islam, so it AOK.
(6) Beating one's wife is a Husband's RIGHT. He can't be prosecuted under the law, unless he kills her!
(7) A wife has no right to beat her husband, even in self-defense. "Islam spared the wife of a need to use violence." However, a wife can get another man to beat her husband, but only after she goes to court and the court awards it. Yep fat chance of that happening.
(8) Comical moment in the broadcast: Beating your wife with a handkerchief is considered "extreme" and even laughable. I would do no damage.
(9) Beating your wife sends a message: "I'm not pleased with your behavior."
(10) The cure to the mental disorders of sadism and masochism? You guessed it - BEATING YOUR WIFE!!! Not only does the Koran allow this it promotes it as a cure! Don't take the Koran's word for it, Islamic psychiatrist say it's the cure and regularly tell the husbands of their patients to start beating their wives!
(11) BIGGEST FABRICATION: The scholar actually claims: "No women died from Islamic wife beatings." OK nutbar!

 

[Wake]

Those tenets are cruel, unfair, and inhumane. If mainstream Islam truly adheres to them, then that is to their shame.

 

[GHook93]

Those tenets are cruel, unfair, and inhumane. If mainstream Islam truly adheres to them, then that is to their shame.

Yea, but it keeps the wife in line and family together plus it's a way for the man to get his frustrations out. So it's a win-win all the way around.

Come on now, admit it, don't you just want to give your wife a crack now and again to keep her in line!

 

[Mad Scientist]

Inb4 "Christianity is just as bad".

 

[Avatar4321]

Inb4 "Christianity is just as bad".

Ive studied the scriptures many time. I've read countless sermons of Christians in various denominations. Could you put out where any Christian has ever advocating beating your wife? Or anything like this?

The scriptures I've studied tell me that we are to love our wives as Christ loved the Church. He was willing to serve, suffer, and even die for the Church. We are to love our wives like that.

 

[bodecea]

Nothing a good husband-beating never solved.





j/k

 

[theword]

Inb4 "Christianity is just as bad".

Ive studied the scriptures many time. I've read countless sermons of Christians in various denominations. Could you put out where any Christian has ever advocating beating your wife? Or anything like this?

The scriptures I've studied tell me that we are to love our wives as Christ loved the Church. He was willing to serve, suffer, and even die for the Church. We are to love our wives like that.

Repeating Bible verses is one thing but to live according to God's laws is impossible for sinners.

 

[Avatar4321]

Inb4 "Christianity is just as bad".

Ive studied the scriptures many time. I've read countless sermons of Christians in various denominations. Could you put out where any Christian has ever advocating beating your wife? Or anything like this?

The scriptures I've studied tell me that we are to love our wives as Christ loved the Church. He was willing to serve, suffer, and even die for the Church. We are to love our wives like that.

Repeating Bible verses is one thing but to live according to God's laws is impossible for sinners.

Anything is possible with the Grace of God.

 

[theword]

Ive studied the scriptures many time. I've read countless sermons of Christians in various denominations. Could you put out where any Christian has ever advocating beating your wife? Or anything like this?

The scriptures I've studied tell me that we are to love our wives as Christ loved the Church. He was willing to serve, suffer, and even die for the Church. We are to love our wives like that.

Repeating Bible verses is one thing but to live according to God's laws is impossible for sinners.

Anything is possible with the Grace of God.

No sinner can obey God's commandments during this age. Only us saints were totally forgiven of this sin nature and learned we are the Law.

Daniel 7
25: He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time.
26: But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end.
27: And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey them.'

 

[Osomir]

Summary:
(1) Beating are not only allowed by the Koran they are promoted by the Koran.
(2) Without wife beatings the family dynamic breaks down and leads to divorce.
(3) Using harsh words towards a disobedient wife is a must, aka spousal mental abuse is an Islamic duty! Don't leave out breaking her down mentally also!
(4) Refusal of sex is a just reason to beat your wive.
(5) Beat your wive with one of the assortment of rods. They are the "Rods of Obedience." Do you see the size of some of those rods. They are huge. Broken bones all in the name of Islam, so it AOK.
(6) Beating one's wife is a Husband's RIGHT. He can't be prosecuted under the law, unless he kills her!
(7) A wife has no right to beat her husband, even in self-defense. "Islam spared the wife of a need to use violence." However, a wife can get another man to beat her husband, but only after she goes to court and the court awards it. Yep fat chance of that happening.
(8) Comical moment in the broadcast: Beating your wife with a handkerchief is considered "extreme" and even laughable. I would do no damage.
(9) Beating your wife sends a message: "I'm not pleased with your behavior."
(10) The cure to the mental disorders of sadism and masochism? You guessed it - BEATING YOUR WIFE!!! Not only does the Koran allow this it promotes it as a cure! Don't take the Koran's word for it, Islamic psychiatrist say it's the cure and regularly tell the husbands of their patients to start beating their wives!
(11) BIGGEST FABRICATION: The scholar actually claims: "No women died from Islamic wife beatings." OK nutbar!

So given your summary it doesn't seem as though you watched actually the video. Perhaps you simply copied and pasted this from another site?

Anyway:

"Beating" is a poor translation from the Arabic to the English. Any linguist, or theological scholar will tell you that this is often a problem when translating texts from one language to another. When we hear the word "beating" we think of violent domestic abuse. Unfortunately that happens all too often all over the world, but the "beating" in this video as it relates theologically to Islam is a purely symbolic gesture in which the husband is to strike his wife with a scarf (or handkerchief as he says in the video) in a way that does not leave a mark on her to symbolize how poorly the situation is. It is the last ditch effort to ward off divorce and it not for every ay use (It is not for everyday acts of disobedience, or for use in arguments). It is not something that is theologically allowed to be done out of anger either. This style of symbolism was passed down from Muhammad's farewell speech through Ibn Abbas.

To cover a few of your more off specific points:

3.) He doesn't say that speaking harshly is a must, he said that it is better for family unity to resolves things through dialogue, not domestic abuse, and he said that the type of dialogue depends on the personality of the women. His talk is quite misogynistic, but he lumps women into different categories depending on what they might respond to best.
The sticks in the video are not something that he is telling people to hit their wives with, just the opposite he is telling people that isn't acceptable.

4.) Not true. Though this is a general cultural belief that persists in many countries (including non-Islamic ones). The refusal of a woman to share the bed of her husband in Islam signifies marital problems. There are a number of steps to be taken before the symbolic hit with the scarf occurs, and generally such a thing under jurisprudential codes comes after months or even years of continued denial and problems. If a guy comes home from work and his wife doesn't want to have sex because she has a headache he isn't allowed theologically to hit her, let alone beat her.

5.) I'm not sure where this one even came from, the rods he is holding are rods that he says are completely unjust to hit your wife with. He replaces them later with the handkerchief that he waves around while talking about Ibn Abbas. And you mention broken bones, but the strike isn't even allowed to leave a bruise let alone break bones.

6.) Once again this happens all too often in developing countries, but theologically under traditional Islamic jurisprudential sets that isn't true at all. In fact even in this video he says that a woman has the right to take her husband to court for issues of mistreatment including domestic abuse. I have actual primary document records of such legal cases throughout the course of the Ottoman Empire if you'd like me to reference them.

7.) This is true. The symbolic striking is something that is generally for men to utilize though there have been cases where women utilize it as well. Islam was constructed during a time in which traditional patriarchal structures prevailed and that trickled into the theological aspects of Islam. We see the same sorts of patriarchal family structures in other religions as well. I don't particularly care for them, but then again that's one reason why I'm not religious.

8.) I think you misread the translation there.

10.) Yeah that was an odd segment, he said "beat your wife in a very specific way". He didn't elaborate on that, and the treatment of such disorders is not an area of Islamic jurisprudence that I have a lot of experience in, but I imagine it shouldn't be among the "harsh beatings" that he differentiates with earlier. Aka leave no mark, and not allowed to strike the face. I could be wrong there though, I've never studied such a case.

 

[Avatar4321]

Repeating Bible verses is one thing but to live according to God's laws is impossible for sinners.

Anything is possible with the Grace of God.

No sinner can obey God's commandments during this age. Only us saints were totally forgiven of this sin nature and learned we are the Law.

Daniel 7
25: He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time.
26: But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end.
27: And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey them.'

The power of the Atonement turns sinners into Saints through the Grace of God.

And quoting scriptures that have nothing to do with your points isn't helping your cause.

 

[Avatar4321]

Summary:
(1) Beating are not only allowed by the Koran they are promoted by the Koran.
(2) Without wife beatings the family dynamic breaks down and leads to divorce.
(3) Using harsh words towards a disobedient wife is a must, aka spousal mental abuse is an Islamic duty! Don't leave out breaking her down mentally also!
(4) Refusal of sex is a just reason to beat your wive.
(5) Beat your wive with one of the assortment of rods. They are the "Rods of Obedience." Do you see the size of some of those rods. They are huge. Broken bones all in the name of Islam, so it AOK.
(6) Beating one's wife is a Husband's RIGHT. He can't be prosecuted under the law, unless he kills her!
(7) A wife has no right to beat her husband, even in self-defense. "Islam spared the wife of a need to use violence." However, a wife can get another man to beat her husband, but only after she goes to court and the court awards it. Yep fat chance of that happening.
(8) Comical moment in the broadcast: Beating your wife with a handkerchief is considered "extreme" and even laughable. I would do no damage.
(9) Beating your wife sends a message: "I'm not pleased with your behavior."
(10) The cure to the mental disorders of sadism and masochism? You guessed it - BEATING YOUR WIFE!!! Not only does the Koran allow this it promotes it as a cure! Don't take the Koran's word for it, Islamic psychiatrist say it's the cure and regularly tell the husbands of their patients to start beating their wives!
(11) BIGGEST FABRICATION: The scholar actually claims: "No women died from Islamic wife beatings." OK nutbar!

So given your summary it doesn't seem as though you watched actually the video. Perhaps you simply copied and pasted this from another site?

Anyway:

"Beating" is a poor translation from the Arabic to the English. Any linguist, or theological scholar will tell you that this is often a problem when translating texts from one language to another. When we hear the word "beating" we think of violent domestic abuse. Unfortunately that happens all too often all over the world, but the "beating" in this video as it relates theologically to Islam is a purely symbolic gesture in which the husband is to strike his wife with a scarf (or handkerchief as he says in the video) in a way that does not leave a mark on her to symbolize how poorly the situation is. It is the last ditch effort to ward off divorce and it not for every ay use (It is not for everyday acts of disobedience, or for use in arguments). It is not something that is theologically allowed to be done out of anger either. This style of symbolism was passed down from Muhammad's farewell speech through Ibn Abbas.

To cover a few of your more off specific points:

3.) He doesn't say that speaking harshly is a must, he said that it is better for family unity to resolves things through dialogue, not domestic abuse, and he said that the type of dialogue depends on the personality of the women. His talk is quite misogynistic, but he lumps women into different categories depending on what they might respond to best.
The sticks in the video are not something that he is telling people to hit their wives with, just the opposite he is telling people that isn't acceptable.

4.) Not true. Though this is a general cultural belief that persists in many countries (including non-Islamic ones). The refusal of a woman to share the bed of her husband in Islam signifies marital problems. There are a number of steps to be taken before the symbolic hit with the scarf occurs, and generally such a thing under jurisprudential codes comes after months or even years of continued denial and problems. If a guy comes home from work and his wife doesn't want to have sex because she has a headache he isn't allowed theologically to hit her, let alone beat her.

5.) I'm not sure where this one even came from, the rods he is holding are rods that he says are completely unjust to hit your wife with. He replaces them later with the handkerchief that he waves around while talking about Ibn Abbas. And you mention broken bones, but the strike isn't even allowed to leave a bruise let alone break bones.

6.) Once again this happens all too often in developing countries, but theologically under traditional Islamic jurisprudential sets that isn't true at all. In fact even in this video he says that a woman has the right to take her husband to court for issues of mistreatment including domestic abuse. I have actual primary document records of such legal cases throughout the course of the Ottoman Empire if you'd like me to reference them.

7.) This is true. The symbolic striking is something that is generally for men to utilize though there have been cases where women utilize it as well. Islam was constructed during a time in which traditional patriarchal structures prevailed and that trickled into the theological aspects of Islam. We see the same sorts of patriarchal family structures in other religions as well. I don't particularly care for them, but then again that's one reason why I'm not religious.

8.) I think you misread the translation there.

10.) Yeah that was an odd segment, he said "beat your wife in a very specific way". He didn't elaborate on that, and the treatment of such disorders is not an area of Islamic jurisprudence that I have a lot of experience in, but I imagine it shouldn't be among the "harsh beatings" that he differentiates with earlier. Aka leave no mark, and not allowed to strike the face. I could be wrong there though, I've never studied such a case.

Right, maybe they should use a different word to avoid confusion there.

I think your spin is complete nonsense by the way.

 

[Osomir]

Right, maybe they should use a different word to avoid confusion there.

Being so comfortable with the Bible you should know the importance of lingual differences. Take the Vulgate, vs. the New King James Version for example. They exist when trying to translate any language into any other language. It's no different with Arabic.

I'm curious if you speak a second language?

I think your spin is complete nonsense by the way.

Did you even watch the video?

 

[GHook93]

Inb4 "Christianity is just as bad".

You are a fool and a douche bag. Only a person that takes the name American Communist would be that clueless.

Christian countries:
(1) Protect religion minorities and all have a large minority population. Muslim countries like Iran, Sauda Arabia, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Syria, Iraq, Turkey, Gaza etc all are in the 95%+ Muslim range, routinely persecute their minorities. Muslim countries like Lebanon and Egypt with sizable Christian minorities, ethnically cleanse the minority, enact pograms and force the Christians to flee the country.

(2) Christian countries protect women's rights. See the video, women are see as less than dogs in Muslim countries.

(3) Muslims are intolerant. Christians accept everyone (except gays).

(4) Christian country, while most don't allow gays to marry, protect gays human rights. Muslim countries persecute and murder gays.

(5) Muslim countries restrict freedoms like to the press, religion, open election and private property and enterprise. Christian countries are some of the most free, democratic and private property open in the world.

(6) Muslim countries persecute muslims who convert. Christian countries allow conversion without controversy.

(7) Christian countries respect and protect Jews. Muslim countries forcefully purged their countries of their once sizable Jewish populations.

(8) Christian provide more charity, help, assistance, free medicinie and medical care and disaster relief than any other religion on the world. Muslim countries occassionally donate to terrorist funding and headliners (like Haiti relief), but they are usually the least charitiable people.

See a loser like you will protect Islam (because you're a coward) by equating it to Christianity. They are nothing alike and to do so is a weak red herring!

 

[daveman]

Inb4 "Christianity is just as bad".

You are a fool and a douche bag. Only a person that takes the name American Communist would be that clueless.

Christian countries:
(1) Protect religion minorities and all have a large minority population. Muslim countries like Iran, Sauda Arabia, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Syria, Iraq, Turkey, Gaza etc all are in the 95%+ Muslim range, routinely persecute their minorities. Muslim countries like Lebanon and Egypt with sizable Christian minorities, ethnically cleanse the minority, enact pograms and force the Christians to flee the country.

(2) Christian countries protect women's rights. See the video, women are see as less than dogs in Muslim countries.

(3) Muslims are intolerant. Christians accept everyone (except gays).

(4) Christian country, while most don't allow gays to marry, protect gays human rights. Muslim countries persecute and murder gays.

(5) Muslim countries restrict freedoms like to the press, religion, open election and private property and enterprise. Christian countries are some of the most free, democratic and private property open in the world.

(6) Muslim countries persecute muslims who convert. Christian countries allow conversion without controversy.

(7) Christian countries respect and protect Jews. Muslim countries forcefully purged their countries of their once sizable Jewish populations.

(8) Christian provide more charity, help, assistance, free medicinie and medical care and disaster relief than any other religion on the world. Muslim countries occassionally donate to terrorist funding and headliners (like Haiti relief), but they are usually the least charitiable people.

See a loser like you will protect Islam (because you're a coward) by equating it to Christianity. They are nothing alike and to do so is a weak red herring!

Wow, you SO got his post wrong.

In any thread even remotely critical of Islam, the typical progressive response is, "Well, yeah, that's kinda bad, I guess -- but XTIANITY is MUCH worse!!"

He's not protecting Islam. He's condemning the hypocrisy of progressives who protect Islam by attacking Christianity.

 

[daveman]

Summary:
(1) Beating are not only allowed by the Koran they are promoted by the Koran.
(2) Without wife beatings the family dynamic breaks down and leads to divorce.
(3) Using harsh words towards a disobedient wife is a must, aka spousal mental abuse is an Islamic duty! Don't leave out breaking her down mentally also!
(4) Refusal of sex is a just reason to beat your wive.
(5) Beat your wive with one of the assortment of rods. They are the "Rods of Obedience." Do you see the size of some of those rods. They are huge. Broken bones all in the name of Islam, so it AOK.
(6) Beating one's wife is a Husband's RIGHT. He can't be prosecuted under the law, unless he kills her!
(7) A wife has no right to beat her husband, even in self-defense. "Islam spared the wife of a need to use violence." However, a wife can get another man to beat her husband, but only after she goes to court and the court awards it. Yep fat chance of that happening.
(8) Comical moment in the broadcast: Beating your wife with a handkerchief is considered "extreme" and even laughable. I would do no damage.
(9) Beating your wife sends a message: "I'm not pleased with your behavior."
(10) The cure to the mental disorders of sadism and masochism? You guessed it - BEATING YOUR WIFE!!! Not only does the Koran allow this it promotes it as a cure! Don't take the Koran's word for it, Islamic psychiatrist say it's the cure and regularly tell the husbands of their patients to start beating their wives!
(11) BIGGEST FABRICATION: The scholar actually claims: "No women died from Islamic wife beatings." OK nutbar!

So given your summary it doesn't seem as though you watched actually the video. Perhaps you simply copied and pasted this from another site?

Anyway:

"Beating" is a poor translation from the Arabic to the English. Any linguist, or theological scholar will tell you that this is often a problem when translating texts from one language to another. When we hear the word "beating" we think of violent domestic abuse. Unfortunately that happens all too often all over the world, but the "beating" in this video as it relates theologically to Islam is a purely symbolic gesture in which the husband is to strike his wife with a scarf (or handkerchief as he says in the video) in a way that does not leave a mark on her to symbolize how poorly the situation is. It is the last ditch effort to ward off divorce and it not for every ay use (It is not for everyday acts of disobedience, or for use in arguments). It is not something that is theologically allowed to be done out of anger either. This style of symbolism was passed down from Muhammad's farewell speech through Ibn Abbas.

To cover a few of your more off specific points:

3.) He doesn't say that speaking harshly is a must, he said that it is better for family unity to resolves things through dialogue, not domestic abuse, and he said that the type of dialogue depends on the personality of the women. His talk is quite misogynistic, but he lumps women into different categories depending on what they might respond to best.
The sticks in the video are not something that he is telling people to hit their wives with, just the opposite he is telling people that isn't acceptable.

4.) Not true. Though this is a general cultural belief that persists in many countries (including non-Islamic ones). The refusal of a woman to share the bed of her husband in Islam signifies marital problems. There are a number of steps to be taken before the symbolic hit with the scarf occurs, and generally such a thing under jurisprudential codes comes after months or even years of continued denial and problems. If a guy comes home from work and his wife doesn't want to have sex because she has a headache he isn't allowed theologically to hit her, let alone beat her.

5.) I'm not sure where this one even came from, the rods he is holding are rods that he says are completely unjust to hit your wife with. He replaces them later with the handkerchief that he waves around while talking about Ibn Abbas. And you mention broken bones, but the strike isn't even allowed to leave a bruise let alone break bones.

6.) Once again this happens all too often in developing countries, but theologically under traditional Islamic jurisprudential sets that isn't true at all. In fact even in this video he says that a woman has the right to take her husband to court for issues of mistreatment including domestic abuse. I have actual primary document records of such legal cases throughout the course of the Ottoman Empire if you'd like me to reference them.

7.) This is true. The symbolic striking is something that is generally for men to utilize though there have been cases where women utilize it as well. Islam was constructed during a time in which traditional patriarchal structures prevailed and that trickled into the theological aspects of Islam. We see the same sorts of patriarchal family structures in other religions as well. I don't particularly care for them, but then again that's one reason why I'm not religious.

8.) I think you misread the translation there.

10.) Yeah that was an odd segment, he said "beat your wife in a very specific way". He didn't elaborate on that, and the treatment of such disorders is not an area of Islamic jurisprudence that I have a lot of experience in, but I imagine it shouldn't be among the "harsh beatings" that he differentiates with earlier. Aka leave no mark, and not allowed to strike the face. I could be wrong there though, I've never studied such a case.

So, it's still okay to beat your wife.

Not in the 21st Century, it's not. Might wanna set your calendar forward a few centuries, mmmkay?

 

[Osomir]

Summary:
(1) Beating are not only allowed by the Koran they are promoted by the Koran.
(2) Without wife beatings the family dynamic breaks down and leads to divorce.
(3) Using harsh words towards a disobedient wife is a must, aka spousal mental abuse is an Islamic duty! Don't leave out breaking her down mentally also!
(4) Refusal of sex is a just reason to beat your wive.
(5) Beat your wive with one of the assortment of rods. They are the "Rods of Obedience." Do you see the size of some of those rods. They are huge. Broken bones all in the name of Islam, so it AOK.
(6) Beating one's wife is a Husband's RIGHT. He can't be prosecuted under the law, unless he kills her!
(7) A wife has no right to beat her husband, even in self-defense. "Islam spared the wife of a need to use violence." However, a wife can get another man to beat her husband, but only after she goes to court and the court awards it. Yep fat chance of that happening.
(8) Comical moment in the broadcast: Beating your wife with a handkerchief is considered "extreme" and even laughable. I would do no damage.
(9) Beating your wife sends a message: "I'm not pleased with your behavior."
(10) The cure to the mental disorders of sadism and masochism? You guessed it - BEATING YOUR WIFE!!! Not only does the Koran allow this it promotes it as a cure! Don't take the Koran's word for it, Islamic psychiatrist say it's the cure and regularly tell the husbands of their patients to start beating their wives!
(11) BIGGEST FABRICATION: The scholar actually claims: "No women died from Islamic wife beatings." OK nutbar!

So given your summary it doesn't seem as though you watched actually the video. Perhaps you simply copied and pasted this from another site?

Anyway:

"Beating" is a poor translation from the Arabic to the English. Any linguist, or theological scholar will tell you that this is often a problem when translating texts from one language to another. When we hear the word "beating" we think of violent domestic abuse. Unfortunately that happens all too often all over the world, but the "beating" in this video as it relates theologically to Islam is a purely symbolic gesture in which the husband is to strike his wife with a scarf (or handkerchief as he says in the video) in a way that does not leave a mark on her to symbolize how poorly the situation is. It is the last ditch effort to ward off divorce and it not for every ay use (It is not for everyday acts of disobedience, or for use in arguments). It is not something that is theologically allowed to be done out of anger either. This style of symbolism was passed down from Muhammad's farewell speech through Ibn Abbas.

To cover a few of your more off specific points:

3.) He doesn't say that speaking harshly is a must, he said that it is better for family unity to resolves things through dialogue, not domestic abuse, and he said that the type of dialogue depends on the personality of the women. His talk is quite misogynistic, but he lumps women into different categories depending on what they might respond to best.
The sticks in the video are not something that he is telling people to hit their wives with, just the opposite he is telling people that isn't acceptable.

4.) Not true. Though this is a general cultural belief that persists in many countries (including non-Islamic ones). The refusal of a woman to share the bed of her husband in Islam signifies marital problems. There are a number of steps to be taken before the symbolic hit with the scarf occurs, and generally such a thing under jurisprudential codes comes after months or even years of continued denial and problems. If a guy comes home from work and his wife doesn't want to have sex because she has a headache he isn't allowed theologically to hit her, let alone beat her.

5.) I'm not sure where this one even came from, the rods he is holding are rods that he says are completely unjust to hit your wife with. He replaces them later with the handkerchief that he waves around while talking about Ibn Abbas. And you mention broken bones, but the strike isn't even allowed to leave a bruise let alone break bones.

6.) Once again this happens all too often in developing countries, but theologically under traditional Islamic jurisprudential sets that isn't true at all. In fact even in this video he says that a woman has the right to take her husband to court for issues of mistreatment including domestic abuse. I have actual primary document records of such legal cases throughout the course of the Ottoman Empire if you'd like me to reference them.

7.) This is true. The symbolic striking is something that is generally for men to utilize though there have been cases where women utilize it as well. Islam was constructed during a time in which traditional patriarchal structures prevailed and that trickled into the theological aspects of Islam. We see the same sorts of patriarchal family structures in other religions as well. I don't particularly care for them, but then again that's one reason why I'm not religious.

8.) I think you misread the translation there.

10.) Yeah that was an odd segment, he said "beat your wife in a very specific way". He didn't elaborate on that, and the treatment of such disorders is not an area of Islamic jurisprudence that I have a lot of experience in, but I imagine it shouldn't be among the "harsh beatings" that he differentiates with earlier. Aka leave no mark, and not allowed to strike the face. I could be wrong there though, I've never studied such a case.

So, it's still okay to beat your wife.

Not in the 21st Century, it's not. Might wanna set your calendar forward a few centuries, mmmkay?

How did you draw that conclusion from my post? You just scolded Ghook for misunderstanding American Communist's post and then turned around and did the same exact thing with mine.

 

[daveman]

So given your summary it doesn't seem as though you watched actually the video. Perhaps you simply copied and pasted this from another site?

Anyway:

"Beating" is a poor translation from the Arabic to the English. Any linguist, or theological scholar will tell you that this is often a problem when translating texts from one language to another. When we hear the word "beating" we think of violent domestic abuse. Unfortunately that happens all too often all over the world, but the "beating" in this video as it relates theologically to Islam is a purely symbolic gesture in which the husband is to strike his wife with a scarf (or handkerchief as he says in the video) in a way that does not leave a mark on her to symbolize how poorly the situation is. It is the last ditch effort to ward off divorce and it not for every ay use (It is not for everyday acts of disobedience, or for use in arguments). It is not something that is theologically allowed to be done out of anger either. This style of symbolism was passed down from Muhammad's farewell speech through Ibn Abbas.

To cover a few of your more off specific points:

3.) He doesn't say that speaking harshly is a must, he said that it is better for family unity to resolves things through dialogue, not domestic abuse, and he said that the type of dialogue depends on the personality of the women. His talk is quite misogynistic, but he lumps women into different categories depending on what they might respond to best.
The sticks in the video are not something that he is telling people to hit their wives with, just the opposite he is telling people that isn't acceptable.

4.) Not true. Though this is a general cultural belief that persists in many countries (including non-Islamic ones). The refusal of a woman to share the bed of her husband in Islam signifies marital problems. There are a number of steps to be taken before the symbolic hit with the scarf occurs, and generally such a thing under jurisprudential codes comes after months or even years of continued denial and problems. If a guy comes home from work and his wife doesn't want to have sex because she has a headache he isn't allowed theologically to hit her, let alone beat her.

5.) I'm not sure where this one even came from, the rods he is holding are rods that he says are completely unjust to hit your wife with. He replaces them later with the handkerchief that he waves around while talking about Ibn Abbas. And you mention broken bones, but the strike isn't even allowed to leave a bruise let alone break bones.

6.) Once again this happens all too often in developing countries, but theologically under traditional Islamic jurisprudential sets that isn't true at all. In fact even in this video he says that a woman has the right to take her husband to court for issues of mistreatment including domestic abuse. I have actual primary document records of such legal cases throughout the course of the Ottoman Empire if you'd like me to reference them.

7.) This is true. The symbolic striking is something that is generally for men to utilize though there have been cases where women utilize it as well. Islam was constructed during a time in which traditional patriarchal structures prevailed and that trickled into the theological aspects of Islam. We see the same sorts of patriarchal family structures in other religions as well. I don't particularly care for them, but then again that's one reason why I'm not religious.

8.) I think you misread the translation there.

10.) Yeah that was an odd segment, he said "beat your wife in a very specific way". He didn't elaborate on that, and the treatment of such disorders is not an area of Islamic jurisprudence that I have a lot of experience in, but I imagine it shouldn't be among the "harsh beatings" that he differentiates with earlier. Aka leave no mark, and not allowed to strike the face. I could be wrong there though, I've never studied such a case.

So, it's still okay to beat your wife.

Not in the 21st Century, it's not. Might wanna set your calendar forward a few centuries, mmmkay?

How did you draw that conclusion from my post? You just scolded Ghook for misunderstanding American Communist's post and then turned around and did the same exact thing with mine.

"Symbolic hit with the scarf"?

Do you really expect anyone to believe that crap?

Next thing you know, you'll be expecting us to believe women really love clitorectomies.

 

[Osomir]

"Symbolic hit with the scarf"?

Do you really expect anyone to believe that crap?

In terms of the theological practices of Islam? Yes, that is what the main jurisprudential schools teach, and he referenced it in the video too (though he cited a handkerchief instead).

I'm not denying that domestic abuse happens, I in part specialize in women's rights within economic development (it's what I wrote my thesis on), so I am very familiar with such abuses across the developing world, but I also know that such practices tend to be largely cultural not theological.

 

[JoeB131]

GHook, you can drag up all the Muslim Bogeymen you want.

I'm still of the attitude of "Fuck Israel" and all the wars it keeps dragging us into.