Republicans should embrace Libertarianism

[LibertyLemming]

Wanna get the party back in the favor of the electorate? That is my suggestion. Libertarians have better positions on Democratic issues like social issues and on being "anti-war" and have better positions on Republican issues like taxation and fiscal issues. I think it would pull "moderate", the base will support anything with an R next to it and it would remove many of the Democrats main talking points. The only challenge will be reversing the changing opinion in this country in regards to welfare. We have really shifted to a culture where too many people believe in taking from some to give to others.

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

Thomas Jefferson

“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”
-Benjamin Franklin

“To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.”
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816

“A wise and frugal government … shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.”
-Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801

“Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.”
-Thomas Jefferson

“When all government, domestic and foreign, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated.”
-Thomas Jefferson to Charles Hammond, 1821. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors, ME 15:332

“The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.”
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to E. Carrington, May 27, 1788

“The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If ‘Thou shalt not covet’ and ‘Thou shalt not steal’ were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free.”
-John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, 1787

James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, elaborated upon this limitation in a letter to James Robertson:
“With respect to the two words ‘general welfare,’ I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.”

In 1794, when Congress appropriated $15,000 for relief of French refugees who fled from insurrection in San Domingo to Baltimore and Philadelphia, James Madison stood on the floor of the House to object saying, “I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.”
-James Madison, 4 Annals of congress 179 (1794)

“…[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.”
-James Madison

“If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions.” James Madison, “Letter to Edmund Pendleton,”
-James Madison, January 21, 1792, in The Papers of James Madison, vol. 14, Robert A Rutland et. al., ed (Charlottesvile: University Press of Virginia,1984).

“An elective despotism was not the government we fought for; but one in which the powers of government should be so divided and balanced among the several bodies of magistracy as that no one could transcend their legal limits without being effectually checked and restrained by the others.”
-James Madison, Federalist No. 58, February 20, 1788

“There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.”
-James Madison, speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 16, 1788

 

[SniperFire]

Gary Johnson got less than one-percent of the vote.


Nobody buys your nonsense.

Fail.

 

[LibertyLemming]

Gary Johnson got less than one-percent of the vote.


Nobody buys your nonsense.

Fail.

Yeah he also got zero press, zero federal funding, zero face time during debates, etc etc. He's not a perfect libertarian anyway but his track record as a head of state is way way better than Obama's or Romney's

 

[LibertyLemming]

After 4 years of Obama less people voted for Romney than McCain in 08. That's laughable. They need to fix the platform.

 

[SniperFire]

Gary Johnson got less than one-percent of the vote.


Nobody buys your nonsense.

Fail.

Yeah he also got zero press, zero federal funding, zero face time during debates, etc etc. He's not a perfect libertarian anyway but his track record as a head of state is way way better than Obama's or Romney's

He got zero of everything because nobody buys what you assholes are selling.

It takes more than esoteric theoretical nonsense to run governments.


Hope that helps.

 

[LibertyLemming]

Gary Johnson got less than one-percent of the vote.


Nobody buys your nonsense.

Fail.

Yeah he also got zero press, zero federal funding, zero face time during debates, etc etc. He's not a perfect libertarian anyway but his track record as a head of state is way way better than Obama's or Romney's

He got zero of everything because nobody buys what you assholes are selling.

It takes more than esoteric theoretical nonsense to run governments.


Hope that helps.

Ah you're one of those guys who think it required to take by force from people to run government despite that it has been done without doing so in the past.

 

[SniperFire]

Yeah he also got zero press, zero federal funding, zero face time during debates, etc etc. He's not a perfect libertarian anyway but his track record as a head of state is way way better than Obama's or Romney's

He got zero of everything because nobody buys what you assholes are selling.

It takes more than esoteric theoretical nonsense to run governments.


Hope that helps.

Ah you're one of those guys who think it required to take by force from people to run government despite that it has been done without doing so in the past.

See? Stupid theoretical bullshit spewed once again.

You guys are fools and you simply do not matter.

I just wish you would stop spamming the forum with your inane threads.

 

[bucs90]

Im all for legalizing weed, keeping govt out of marriage decisions.

But, I may be ignorant of some of the true Libertarian views, so let me ask:

How does that ideology approach things like seat belt laws? Or noise ordinances at the local level? Business permits?

The Libertarian ideals sound good on paper. But in practice do they work? Without a noise ordinance...something so little in meaningless in national scale, but, something I've thought Libertarians would oppose.......you would allow your college aged neighbors to set up giant speakers have have a 2am rave party every night while you try to sleep. And the local cops would have no power to do anything to help you. Is THAT the general Libertarian ideal??? That petty laws like that should be abolished? If so, what does one do in the above scenario, ask them to please turn it down? What if they say "Fuck off old man, get off MY property"??? DO you just go without sleep? Fight them and get arrested for assault??

Libertarianism is a fun theory. Just think in modern society it isn't practical.

 

[LibertyLemming]

Go ahead and tell me how what you highlighted isnt true.

 

[bucs90]

Yeah he also got zero press, zero federal funding, zero face time during debates, etc etc. He's not a perfect libertarian anyway but his track record as a head of state is way way better than Obama's or Romney's

He got zero of everything because nobody buys what you assholes are selling.

It takes more than esoteric theoretical nonsense to run governments.


Hope that helps.

Ah you're one of those guys who think it required to take by force from people to run government despite that it has been done without doing so in the past.

If taxes were voluntary, would you pay them? I wouldnt.

 

[SniperFire]

Im all for legalizing weed, keeping govt out of marriage decisions.

But, I may be ignorant of some of the true Libertarian views, so let me ask:

How does that ideology approach things like seat belt laws? Or noise ordinances at the local level? Business permits?

The Libertarian ideals sound good on paper. But in practice do they work? Without a noise ordinance...something so little in meaningless in national scale, but, something I've thought Libertarians would oppose.......you would allow your college aged neighbors to set up giant speakers have have a 2am rave party every night while you try to sleep. And the local cops would have no power to do anything to help you. Is THAT the general Libertarian ideal??? That petty laws like that should be abolished? If so, what does one do in the above scenario, ask them to please turn it down? What if they say "Fuck off old man, get off MY property"??? DO you just go without sleep? Fight them and get arrested for assault??

Libertarianism is a fun theory. Just think in modern society it isn't practical.

The most ardent Libertariantards will tell you no such laws can stand.

Yet some of these clowns will actually tell you they would not stop the locals from passing such laws, but then of course the population would quickly legislate Libertarianism out of existence, which has been done since, oh, about the time of the failed government model they have of Deadwood, South Dakota.

 

[LibertyLemming]

Im all for legalizing weed, keeping govt out of marriage decisions.

But, I may be ignorant of some of the true Libertarian views, so let me ask:

How does that ideology approach things like seat belt laws? Or noise ordinances at the local level? Business permits?

The Libertarian ideals sound good on paper. But in practice do they work? Without a noise ordinance...something so little in meaningless in national scale, but, something I've thought Libertarians would oppose.......you would allow your college aged neighbors to set up giant speakers have have a 2am rave party every night while you try to sleep. And the local cops would have no power to do anything to help you. Is THAT the general Libertarian ideal??? That petty laws like that should be abolished? If so, what does one do in the above scenario, ask them to please turn it down? What if they say "Fuck off old man, get off MY property"??? DO you just go without sleep? Fight them and get arrested for assault??

Libertarianism is a fun theory. Just think in modern society it isn't practical.

I'm not suggesting libertarianism at a state level (I'd love to see it though!) and federal law enforcement doesnt write disturbing the peace tickets. As far as seatbelts, why are we protecting people from themselves?

 

[Liberty]

Im all for legalizing weed, keeping govt out of marriage decisions.

But, I may be ignorant of some of the true Libertarian views, so let me ask:

How does that ideology approach things like seat belt laws? Or noise ordinances at the local level? Business permits?

The Libertarian ideals sound good on paper. But in practice do they work? Without a noise ordinance...something so little in meaningless in national scale, but, something I've thought Libertarians would oppose.......you would allow your college aged neighbors to set up giant speakers have have a 2am rave party every night while you try to sleep. And the local cops would have no power to do anything to help you. Is THAT the general Libertarian ideal??? That petty laws like that should be abolished? If so, what does one do in the above scenario, ask them to please turn it down? What if they say "Fuck off old man, get off MY property"??? DO you just go without sleep? Fight them and get arrested for assault??

Libertarianism is a fun theory. Just think in modern society it isn't practical.

The questions you raise can be answered by 10th amendment.

 

[Steelplate]

Wanna get the party back in the favor of the electorate? That is my suggestion. Libertarians have better positions on Democratic issues like social issues and on being "anti-war" and have better positions on Republican issues like taxation and fiscal issues. I think it would pull "moderate", the base will support anything with an R next to it and it would remove many of the Democrats main talking points. The only challenge will be reversing the changing opinion in this country in regards to welfare. We have really shifted to a culture where too many people believe in taking from some to give to others.

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

Thomas Jefferson

“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”
-Benjamin Franklin

“To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.”
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816

“A wise and frugal government … shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.”
-Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801

“Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.”
-Thomas Jefferson

“When all government, domestic and foreign, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated.”
-Thomas Jefferson to Charles Hammond, 1821. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors, ME 15:332

“The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.”
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to E. Carrington, May 27, 1788

“The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If ‘Thou shalt not covet’ and ‘Thou shalt not steal’ were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free.”
-John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, 1787

James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, elaborated upon this limitation in a letter to James Robertson:
“With respect to the two words ‘general welfare,’ I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.”

In 1794, when Congress appropriated $15,000 for relief of French refugees who fled from insurrection in San Domingo to Baltimore and Philadelphia, James Madison stood on the floor of the House to object saying, “I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.”
-James Madison, 4 Annals of congress 179 (1794)

“…[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.”
-James Madison

“If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions.” James Madison, “Letter to Edmund Pendleton,”
-James Madison, January 21, 1792, in The Papers of James Madison, vol. 14, Robert A Rutland et. al., ed (Charlottesvile: University Press of Virginia,1984).

“An elective despotism was not the government we fought for; but one in which the powers of government should be so divided and balanced among the several bodies of magistracy as that no one could transcend their legal limits without being effectually checked and restrained by the others.”
-James Madison, Federalist No. 58, February 20, 1788

“There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.”
-James Madison, speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 16, 1788

They will never embrace Libertarianism. They are too worried about what goes into or comes out of a woman's crotch, or a Gay's ass, or hates the idea of letting pot smokers out of prison....oh yeah....they don't like the idea of ending welfare for rich folk, and they just love the Military/industrial complex.

Likewise, Liberals will never embrace Libertarianism because we don't want to see poor people starve, go back to segregation and "white only" businesses, and having the elderly die off quickly due to the ending of SS and Medicare.

Now....if you were to propose a GRADUAL ending to those programs....like people 35 and under who have plenty of time to plan....I'd listen...but Iwill never accept that our nation should not take care of those who cannot do for themselves. I'm VERY OK with people who could work and CHOOSE to collect welfare being forced to work for those benefits on roads, bridges, dams, water and sewage systems, the electrical grid....nothing technical, mind you...just unskilled labor type things....perhaps even have incentives where one COULD rise out of that and be trained to do more skill oriented jobs....but it would have to be merit based on their work performance.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

He got zero of everything because nobody buys what you assholes are selling.

It takes more than esoteric theoretical nonsense to run governments.


Hope that helps.

Ah you're one of those guys who think it required to take by force from people to run government despite that it has been done without doing so in the past.

See? Stupid theoretical bullshit spewed once again.

You guys are fools and you simply do not matter.

I just wish you would stop spamming the forum with your inane threads.

The block button is in the same place it's always been.

 

[LibertyLemming]

Wanna get the party back in the favor of the electorate? That is my suggestion. Libertarians have better positions on Democratic issues like social issues and on being "anti-war" and have better positions on Republican issues like taxation and fiscal issues. I think it would pull "moderate", the base will support anything with an R next to it and it would remove many of the Democrats main talking points. The only challenge will be reversing the changing opinion in this country in regards to welfare. We have really shifted to a culture where too many people believe in taking from some to give to others.

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

Thomas Jefferson

“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”
-Benjamin Franklin

“To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.”
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816

“A wise and frugal government … shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.”
-Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801

“Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.”
-Thomas Jefferson

“When all government, domestic and foreign, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated.”
-Thomas Jefferson to Charles Hammond, 1821. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors, ME 15:332

“The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.”
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to E. Carrington, May 27, 1788

“The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If ‘Thou shalt not covet’ and ‘Thou shalt not steal’ were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free.”
-John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, 1787

James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, elaborated upon this limitation in a letter to James Robertson:
“With respect to the two words ‘general welfare,’ I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.”

In 1794, when Congress appropriated $15,000 for relief of French refugees who fled from insurrection in San Domingo to Baltimore and Philadelphia, James Madison stood on the floor of the House to object saying, “I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.”
-James Madison, 4 Annals of congress 179 (1794)

“…[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.”
-James Madison

“If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions.” James Madison, “Letter to Edmund Pendleton,”
-James Madison, January 21, 1792, in The Papers of James Madison, vol. 14, Robert A Rutland et. al., ed (Charlottesvile: University Press of Virginia,1984).

“An elective despotism was not the government we fought for; but one in which the powers of government should be so divided and balanced among the several bodies of magistracy as that no one could transcend their legal limits without being effectually checked and restrained by the others.”
-James Madison, Federalist No. 58, February 20, 1788

“There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.”
-James Madison, speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 16, 1788

They will never embrace Libertarianism. They are too worried about what goes into or comes out of a woman's crotch, or a Gay's ass, or hates the idea of letting pot smokers out of prison....oh yeah....they don't like the idea of ending welfare for rich folk, and they just love the Military/industrial complex.

Likewise, Liberals will never embrace Libertarianism because we don't want to see poor people starve, go back to segregation and "white only" businesses, and having the elderly die off quickly due to the ending of SS and Medicare.

Now....if you were to propose a GRADUAL ending to those programs....like people 35 and under who have plenty of time to plan....I'd listen...but Iwill never accept that our nation should not take care of those who cannot do for themselves. I'm VERY OK with people who could work and CHOOSE to collect welfare being forced to work for those benefits on roads, bridges, dams, water and sewage systems, the electrical grid....nothing technical, mind you...just unskilled labor type things....perhaps even have incentives where one COULD rise out of that and be trained to do more skill oriented jobs....but it would have to be merit based on their work performance.

Well, states can do whatever but all you folks who want a safety net can ELECT to donate into a fund and continue your welfare. Forcing everyone to participate is unjust and violates freedom and my right to my property. People should be able to permanently opt out of all government programs and not have to pay in and not receive any benefits in the future after opting out, at the very least.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Im all for legalizing weed, keeping govt out of marriage decisions.

But, I may be ignorant of some of the true Libertarian views, so let me ask:

How does that ideology approach things like seat belt laws? Or noise ordinances at the local level? Business permits?

The Libertarian ideals sound good on paper. But in practice do they work? Without a noise ordinance...something so little in meaningless in national scale, but, something I've thought Libertarians would oppose.......you would allow your college aged neighbors to set up giant speakers have have a 2am rave party every night while you try to sleep. And the local cops would have no power to do anything to help you. Is THAT the general Libertarian ideal??? That petty laws like that should be abolished? If so, what does one do in the above scenario, ask them to please turn it down? What if they say "Fuck off old man, get off MY property"??? DO you just go without sleep? Fight them and get arrested for assault??

Libertarianism is a fun theory. Just think in modern society it isn't practical.

Libertarians would be opposed to seat belt laws, but if somebody's music is blaring then that's a violation of property rights.