Republicans really aren't smart enough to understand capitalism

[Pumpkin Row]

Yes, I can. The government's tampering with the US currency started it, and then Franklin Roosevelt's Socialist Policies extended it by 7 years. His NRA and NIRA was a big part of preventing the economy from recovering and promoted monopolies. In fact, the Great Depression would have been roughly 4 years max, or never happened at all, had Roosevelt sat on his hands and done absolutely nothing.

How does any of this relate to the theories of Karl Marx?

Because Socialism is Marxism, which is a theory of Karl Marx. FDR's NRA and NIRA were a government takeover of Private Industry, Social Control of the means of production in other words. The Government tampering of US currency that I'm referring to is the establishing of the Federal Reserve, which is the cause of the Great Depression.

You've never read Karl Marx. Please refrain from using his name or theories in the future. You have no knowledge of which you speak. Thanks.

I also know that when confronted with their failures, they like to claim the person explaining said failures to them know nothing about their failed ideology.

You've never read Marx. You have no knowledge of what you are speaking. Having knowledge of something is a prerequisite to having an intelligent conversation about the subject. You know nothing about his dialectics or historic materialism. That is a fact, isn't it?

If I knew nothing about it, I wouldn't have commented. I know you're a Marxist, though, so I already knew coming into this that the conversation was doomed.

 

[sealybobo]

They like to think they understand it, but they really don't.

Think about the consequences of leaving the free market unregulated and letting the high powered corporate lobbyists make all the rules. This is what's resulted and these are all FACTS:

1) A shockingly huge wealth disparity between the mega rich and the middle class and poor has grown over the course of a few decades. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of inflation despite productivity soaring in most sectors. Most income gains have gone to the top earners in this country for the last few decades.

In actual capitalism, which is not what we have currently, the people who become wealthy do so through hard work, and those who fail do so because of their own ineptitude. It's a system in which everyone is equal as people, nobody is assisted by government, and everyone keeps what they earn. Unlike Socialism, in which failure is rewarded with money stolen from those who earned it.

2) Wall Street corruption directly resulted in the Great Recession of 2008.

You're mistaking what we have for capitalism. What we have is a Fascistic Corporatist State, a result of a government that is far too powerful selling its power to lobbyists, which results in the corruption we see, which happens to be what is REALLY responsible for the recession. Spoiler; Making the government more powerful does not solve the problem of government corruption. Without the government, businesses would be at the mercy of their consumers, without the government there to bail them out.

3) Corporate crime largely goes unpunished, and when it is punished, the results are petty fines.

Corporate Crime is a result of the government preventing businesses from being at the mercy of their consumers.

4) Our for-profit healthcare system has resulted in many basic, critical healthcare services being unavailable to the poor and in some cases the middle class. Prescription drug prices, specifically, in this country are astronomically high in comparison to other countries providing the exact same drugs. If you dumbasses actually think our healthcare system was even remotely affordable prior to ACA then you might as well relinquish your voting rights because you aren't smart enough for the right.

Our healthcare system is not capitalist, regulations prevented providers from competing with each other, which in turn prevents the system from being optimal. Prescription drug prices today are also a result of the government preventing businesses from competing. Drugs use to cost pocket change, but the government created patents, which raised prices drastically.

The ACA cost premiums to rise sharply. My family used to pay 50$ for all twelve of us. They now pay 150$ for six of us, and our family is considered below middle class.

5) Cutting taxes for corporations and top earners does NOTHING to stimulate the overall economy. Why? Because it's easier to keep the money they save rather than invest it. They are already wealthier than ever before. There is no incentive for them to invest in a stronger labor force.

That's completely false. Lower taxes help smaller businesses expand, which creates more jobs, and causes the economy to improve. Big businesses that the government hasn't already forced into a monopoly with their regulations also risk losing ground and money to their competition if they don't expand, meaning money IS incentive enough, regardless of how much they have. It has been proven numerous times that the economy improves with lower taxes.

Now am I suggesting we get rid of capitalism? Absolutely not. I just want a system that guarantees more capital to the poor and shrinking middle class. The basics of the free market system are what helped make this country a super power. It's just gone awry over the last couple of decades.

Here's a bonus task: name ANY republican economic policy that has benefited the middle class. Go ahead. I'll wait.

What has gone wrong is the government expanding as time goes on. This is not capitalism, it's fascistic corporatism. Competition has been strangled out by government regulations, diminishing consumer choices. Making the government the only monopoly through Social Control takes that problem even further. As a matter of fact, more government is not the solution to too much government.


You are right about one thing, though. Republicans don't understand Capitalism. Neither do Democrats, Socialists, Liberals, or anyone else that believes America is capitalist.

When are they gonna pass my tax break?

 

[Pumpkin Row]

They like to think they understand it, but they really don't.

Think about the consequences of leaving the free market unregulated and letting the high powered corporate lobbyists make all the rules. This is what's resulted and these are all FACTS:

1) A shockingly huge wealth disparity between the mega rich and the middle class and poor has grown over the course of a few decades. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of inflation despite productivity soaring in most sectors. Most income gains have gone to the top earners in this country for the last few decades.

In actual capitalism, which is not what we have currently, the people who become wealthy do so through hard work, and those who fail do so because of their own ineptitude. It's a system in which everyone is equal as people, nobody is assisted by government, and everyone keeps what they earn. Unlike Socialism, in which failure is rewarded with money stolen from those who earned it.

2) Wall Street corruption directly resulted in the Great Recession of 2008.

You're mistaking what we have for capitalism. What we have is a Fascistic Corporatist State, a result of a government that is far too powerful selling its power to lobbyists, which results in the corruption we see, which happens to be what is REALLY responsible for the recession. Spoiler; Making the government more powerful does not solve the problem of government corruption. Without the government, businesses would be at the mercy of their consumers, without the government there to bail them out.

3) Corporate crime largely goes unpunished, and when it is punished, the results are petty fines.

Corporate Crime is a result of the government preventing businesses from being at the mercy of their consumers.

4) Our for-profit healthcare system has resulted in many basic, critical healthcare services being unavailable to the poor and in some cases the middle class. Prescription drug prices, specifically, in this country are astronomically high in comparison to other countries providing the exact same drugs. If you dumbasses actually think our healthcare system was even remotely affordable prior to ACA then you might as well relinquish your voting rights because you aren't smart enough for the right.

Our healthcare system is not capitalist, regulations prevented providers from competing with each other, which in turn prevents the system from being optimal. Prescription drug prices today are also a result of the government preventing businesses from competing. Drugs use to cost pocket change, but the government created patents, which raised prices drastically.

The ACA cost premiums to rise sharply. My family used to pay 50$ for all twelve of us. They now pay 150$ for six of us, and our family is considered below middle class.

5) Cutting taxes for corporations and top earners does NOTHING to stimulate the overall economy. Why? Because it's easier to keep the money they save rather than invest it. They are already wealthier than ever before. There is no incentive for them to invest in a stronger labor force.

That's completely false. Lower taxes help smaller businesses expand, which creates more jobs, and causes the economy to improve. Big businesses that the government hasn't already forced into a monopoly with their regulations also risk losing ground and money to their competition if they don't expand, meaning money IS incentive enough, regardless of how much they have. It has been proven numerous times that the economy improves with lower taxes.

Now am I suggesting we get rid of capitalism? Absolutely not. I just want a system that guarantees more capital to the poor and shrinking middle class. The basics of the free market system are what helped make this country a super power. It's just gone awry over the last couple of decades.

Here's a bonus task: name ANY republican economic policy that has benefited the middle class. Go ahead. I'll wait.

What has gone wrong is the government expanding as time goes on. This is not capitalism, it's fascistic corporatism. Competition has been strangled out by government regulations, diminishing consumer choices. Making the government the only monopoly through Social Control takes that problem even further. As a matter of fact, more government is not the solution to too much government.


You are right about one thing, though. Republicans don't understand Capitalism. Neither do Democrats, Socialists, Liberals, or anyone else that believes America is capitalist.

When are they gonna pass my tax break?

The fact that you'd rather make an off-topic post than contest any of my points shows you have nothing intelligent to say. You are a fustilarian.

 

[Tehon]

How does any of this relate to the theories of Karl Marx?

Because Socialism is Marxism, which is a theory of Karl Marx. FDR's NRA and NIRA were a government takeover of Private Industry, Social Control of the means of production in other words. The Government tampering of US currency that I'm referring to is the establishing of the Federal Reserve, which is the cause of the Great Depression.

You've never read Karl Marx. Please refrain from using his name or theories in the future. You have no knowledge of which you speak. Thanks.

I also know that when confronted with their failures, they like to claim the person explaining said failures to them know nothing about their failed ideology.

You've never read Marx. You have no knowledge of what you are speaking. Having knowledge of something is a prerequisite to having an intelligent conversation about the subject. You know nothing about his dialectics or historic materialism. That is a fact, isn't it?

If I knew nothing about it, I wouldn't have commented. I know you're a Marxist, though, so I already knew coming into this that the conversation was doomed.

If you knew something about it you would be able to show how the great depression related to Marx. That was your statement, certainly you can back it up with knowledge. Unless you can't. In which case means that you have been indoctrinated. What are the odds of that happening in capitalist America?

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Because Socialism is Marxism, which is a theory of Karl Marx. FDR's NRA and NIRA were a government takeover of Private Industry, Social Control of the means of production in other words. The Government tampering of US currency that I'm referring to is the establishing of the Federal Reserve, which is the cause of the Great Depression.

You've never read Karl Marx. Please refrain from using his name or theories in the future. You have no knowledge of which you speak. Thanks.

I also know that when confronted with their failures, they like to claim the person explaining said failures to them know nothing about their failed ideology.

You've never read Marx. You have no knowledge of what you are speaking. Having knowledge of something is a prerequisite to having an intelligent conversation about the subject. You know nothing about his dialectics or historic materialism. That is a fact, isn't it?

If I knew nothing about it, I wouldn't have commented. I know you're a Marxist, though, so I already knew coming into this that the conversation was doomed.

If you knew something about it you would be able to show how the great depression related to Marx. That was your statement, certainly you can back it up with knowledge. Unless you can't. In which case means that you have been indoctrinated. What are the odds of that happening in capitalist America?

I already explained it to you, the fact that you didn't understand is not my fault at all.

America isn't capitalist, as not all exchange is voluntary, as is required in Capitalism. The fact that you can't understand after all the times I explained it to you only shows that you don't want to understand.

 

[Tehon]

I already explained it to you, the fact that you didn't understand is not my fault at all.

This was your explanation.

Because Socialism is Marxism, which is a theory of Karl Marx.

That's called indoctrination.

 

[sealybobo]

They like to think they understand it, but they really don't.

Think about the consequences of leaving the free market unregulated and letting the high powered corporate lobbyists make all the rules. This is what's resulted and these are all FACTS:

1) A shockingly huge wealth disparity between the mega rich and the middle class and poor has grown over the course of a few decades. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of inflation despite productivity soaring in most sectors. Most income gains have gone to the top earners in this country for the last few decades.

In actual capitalism, which is not what we have currently, the people who become wealthy do so through hard work, and those who fail do so because of their own ineptitude. It's a system in which everyone is equal as people, nobody is assisted by government, and everyone keeps what they earn. Unlike Socialism, in which failure is rewarded with money stolen from those who earned it.

2) Wall Street corruption directly resulted in the Great Recession of 2008.

You're mistaking what we have for capitalism. What we have is a Fascistic Corporatist State, a result of a government that is far too powerful selling its power to lobbyists, which results in the corruption we see, which happens to be what is REALLY responsible for the recession. Spoiler; Making the government more powerful does not solve the problem of government corruption. Without the government, businesses would be at the mercy of their consumers, without the government there to bail them out.

3) Corporate crime largely goes unpunished, and when it is punished, the results are petty fines.

Corporate Crime is a result of the government preventing businesses from being at the mercy of their consumers.

4) Our for-profit healthcare system has resulted in many basic, critical healthcare services being unavailable to the poor and in some cases the middle class. Prescription drug prices, specifically, in this country are astronomically high in comparison to other countries providing the exact same drugs. If you dumbasses actually think our healthcare system was even remotely affordable prior to ACA then you might as well relinquish your voting rights because you aren't smart enough for the right.

Our healthcare system is not capitalist, regulations prevented providers from competing with each other, which in turn prevents the system from being optimal. Prescription drug prices today are also a result of the government preventing businesses from competing. Drugs use to cost pocket change, but the government created patents, which raised prices drastically.

The ACA cost premiums to rise sharply. My family used to pay 50$ for all twelve of us. They now pay 150$ for six of us, and our family is considered below middle class.

5) Cutting taxes for corporations and top earners does NOTHING to stimulate the overall economy. Why? Because it's easier to keep the money they save rather than invest it. They are already wealthier than ever before. There is no incentive for them to invest in a stronger labor force.

That's completely false. Lower taxes help smaller businesses expand, which creates more jobs, and causes the economy to improve. Big businesses that the government hasn't already forced into a monopoly with their regulations also risk losing ground and money to their competition if they don't expand, meaning money IS incentive enough, regardless of how much they have. It has been proven numerous times that the economy improves with lower taxes.

Now am I suggesting we get rid of capitalism? Absolutely not. I just want a system that guarantees more capital to the poor and shrinking middle class. The basics of the free market system are what helped make this country a super power. It's just gone awry over the last couple of decades.

Here's a bonus task: name ANY republican economic policy that has benefited the middle class. Go ahead. I'll wait.

What has gone wrong is the government expanding as time goes on. This is not capitalism, it's fascistic corporatism. Competition has been strangled out by government regulations, diminishing consumer choices. Making the government the only monopoly through Social Control takes that problem even further. As a matter of fact, more government is not the solution to too much government.


You are right about one thing, though. Republicans don't understand Capitalism. Neither do Democrats, Socialists, Liberals, or anyone else that believes America is capitalist.

When are they gonna pass my tax break?

The fact that you'd rather make an off-topic post than contest any of my points shows you have nothing intelligent to say. You are a fustilarian.

Well you made a lot of good points. I just get mad when republicans lead the give us peons crumbs and the real republicans get hundreds of thousands in tax breaks

Single payer would kill the private healthcare industry but still private insurance that's better will be available to the rich. Imagine how the economy would boom if we all were covered

More people would dare to start a business and not have to worry about insurance

You make good arguments but you're not perfect either

 

[Tehon]

We are a collection of people organized into a society. It's called the United States of America.

No, the United States of America is a national government, not a society. Societies create governments. I'm guessing you think it's the other way around, eh? That governments create societies?

Who created our government? Here is a hint.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Well then we agree. Earlier, you seemed to be conflating society with government. I'll take it as a typo.

We the people agreed to form a government in order to assist with the organization of our society. We call our society the United States of America. That's what was meant.

Fair enough. I'm always leery of attempts to equate government with a society, or even a 'country'. To me they're not the same thing at all.

The government is a representation of us. If we are going to be greedy self indulgent people primarily concerned with our own self interests. Well, what type of government did you think we would get?

 

[Pumpkin Row]

They like to think they understand it, but they really don't.

Think about the consequences of leaving the free market unregulated and letting the high powered corporate lobbyists make all the rules. This is what's resulted and these are all FACTS:

1) A shockingly huge wealth disparity between the mega rich and the middle class and poor has grown over the course of a few decades. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of inflation despite productivity soaring in most sectors. Most income gains have gone to the top earners in this country for the last few decades.

In actual capitalism, which is not what we have currently, the people who become wealthy do so through hard work, and those who fail do so because of their own ineptitude. It's a system in which everyone is equal as people, nobody is assisted by government, and everyone keeps what they earn. Unlike Socialism, in which failure is rewarded with money stolen from those who earned it.

2) Wall Street corruption directly resulted in the Great Recession of 2008.

You're mistaking what we have for capitalism. What we have is a Fascistic Corporatist State, a result of a government that is far too powerful selling its power to lobbyists, which results in the corruption we see, which happens to be what is REALLY responsible for the recession. Spoiler; Making the government more powerful does not solve the problem of government corruption. Without the government, businesses would be at the mercy of their consumers, without the government there to bail them out.

3) Corporate crime largely goes unpunished, and when it is punished, the results are petty fines.

Corporate Crime is a result of the government preventing businesses from being at the mercy of their consumers.

4) Our for-profit healthcare system has resulted in many basic, critical healthcare services being unavailable to the poor and in some cases the middle class. Prescription drug prices, specifically, in this country are astronomically high in comparison to other countries providing the exact same drugs. If you dumbasses actually think our healthcare system was even remotely affordable prior to ACA then you might as well relinquish your voting rights because you aren't smart enough for the right.

Our healthcare system is not capitalist, regulations prevented providers from competing with each other, which in turn prevents the system from being optimal. Prescription drug prices today are also a result of the government preventing businesses from competing. Drugs use to cost pocket change, but the government created patents, which raised prices drastically.

The ACA cost premiums to rise sharply. My family used to pay 50$ for all twelve of us. They now pay 150$ for six of us, and our family is considered below middle class.

5) Cutting taxes for corporations and top earners does NOTHING to stimulate the overall economy. Why? Because it's easier to keep the money they save rather than invest it. They are already wealthier than ever before. There is no incentive for them to invest in a stronger labor force.

That's completely false. Lower taxes help smaller businesses expand, which creates more jobs, and causes the economy to improve. Big businesses that the government hasn't already forced into a monopoly with their regulations also risk losing ground and money to their competition if they don't expand, meaning money IS incentive enough, regardless of how much they have. It has been proven numerous times that the economy improves with lower taxes.

Now am I suggesting we get rid of capitalism? Absolutely not. I just want a system that guarantees more capital to the poor and shrinking middle class. The basics of the free market system are what helped make this country a super power. It's just gone awry over the last couple of decades.

Here's a bonus task: name ANY republican economic policy that has benefited the middle class. Go ahead. I'll wait.

What has gone wrong is the government expanding as time goes on. This is not capitalism, it's fascistic corporatism. Competition has been strangled out by government regulations, diminishing consumer choices. Making the government the only monopoly through Social Control takes that problem even further. As a matter of fact, more government is not the solution to too much government.


You are right about one thing, though. Republicans don't understand Capitalism. Neither do Democrats, Socialists, Liberals, or anyone else that believes America is capitalist.

When are they gonna pass my tax break?

The fact that you'd rather make an off-topic post than contest any of my points shows you have nothing intelligent to say. You are a fustilarian.

Well you made a lot of good points. I just get mad when republicans lead the give us peons crumbs and the real republicans get hundreds of thousands in tax breaks

Single payer would kill the private healthcare industry but still private insurance that's better will be available to the rich. Imagine how the economy would boom if we all were covered

More people would dare to start a business and not have to worry about insurance

You make good arguments but you're not perfect either

Businesses shouldn't be taxed in the first place, they just pass it down to their consumers since they're all taxed the same. The tax breaks cause them to lower their prices to take business from anyone who doesn't respond the same way to the tax breaks.

Single Payer would also cause Healthcare quality to sink into oblivion and taxes to skyrocket. Waiting times for doctor visits would also drastically increase due to the sheer number of people that would start visiting the doctor due to already paying for it through taxes. The economy would not boom, it would get drastically worse.

No more people than what we already see would start businesses, because government regulations would still remain the same.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

I already explained it to you, the fact that you didn't understand is not my fault at all.

This was your explanation.

Because Socialism is Marxism, which is a theory of Karl Marx.

That's called indoctrination.

If you'd like it explained again, you can go read back on my other posts in this thread. If you'd like me to use smaller words so you can understand, you can also ask for that.

Considering Socialism is the new trend for leftists, you'd have to be the one indoctrinated.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Free market capitalism has as much chance of success as communism, which is to say none. That's because unfettered capitalism always reduces wages, raises prices, and transfers all wealth to the top. It's also prone to periods of expansion and contraction (recessions), where the most poorest and vulnerable citizens are left with no jobs and no social safety net to sustain themselves.

The only way unfettered capitalism can be implemented is to destroy the leadership of the left wing so there is no one to lead the inevitable protests against the hardships it imposes on the poor and working classes.

What does work is a mixed economy combining well regulated capitalism with a strong social safety net, and a healthy and vibrant middle and working class.

The US had that for the middle part of the last century but Reagan destroyed that balance when he changed the tax codes in the 1980's. Now the system is rigged against the working and middle class which has seen their steady progress eroded in favour of the elites. Wages have stagnated as profits and productivity have soared. The working class had savings in 1980. Now they have debt and require social assistance to keep food on the table.

Income for the elites has tripled during this time frame, even as the working class has lost ground. Tax cuts which favour the wealthy and large corporations will do nothing to change this. What good is more productivity if the masses can't afford to buy your products?

Supply side economics don't work unless people can afford to buy. Supply and demand works. It's a balance which has been lost.

Corporations have been awash in cash for years, but they simply increased dividends, not production. They don't need tax cuts to create more jobs, they need sales. In order for consumers to buy, they need increased income. This isn't rocket science people. It's common sense.

American conservatives keep clinging to ideas that don't work, like your health care system, instead of looking at what does work in successful economies. Segregation was another American idea which didn't work and yet the South clung to that until integration was forced on them.

Instead of embracing the idea of universal single payer health care which provides better care for everyone at a fraction of what Americans pay, you cling to a system that provides excellent care for a few, and no care for many. A system which makes people choose between life and bankruptcy.

No one ever said consetvatives were the smart.

No one ever said "consetvatives were the smart," huh?

It's precisely the most capitalist industries where you see prices constantly falling, such as technology, and precisely in the most highly regulated where you see prices constantly rising, such as education or health care.

 

[sealybobo]

They like to think they understand it, but they really don't.

Think about the consequences of leaving the free market unregulated and letting the high powered corporate lobbyists make all the rules. This is what's resulted and these are all FACTS:

1) A shockingly huge wealth disparity between the mega rich and the middle class and poor has grown over the course of a few decades. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of inflation despite productivity soaring in most sectors. Most income gains have gone to the top earners in this country for the last few decades.

In actual capitalism, which is not what we have currently, the people who become wealthy do so through hard work, and those who fail do so because of their own ineptitude. It's a system in which everyone is equal as people, nobody is assisted by government, and everyone keeps what they earn. Unlike Socialism, in which failure is rewarded with money stolen from those who earned it.

2) Wall Street corruption directly resulted in the Great Recession of 2008.

You're mistaking what we have for capitalism. What we have is a Fascistic Corporatist State, a result of a government that is far too powerful selling its power to lobbyists, which results in the corruption we see, which happens to be what is REALLY responsible for the recession. Spoiler; Making the government more powerful does not solve the problem of government corruption. Without the government, businesses would be at the mercy of their consumers, without the government there to bail them out.

3) Corporate crime largely goes unpunished, and when it is punished, the results are petty fines.

Corporate Crime is a result of the government preventing businesses from being at the mercy of their consumers.

4) Our for-profit healthcare system has resulted in many basic, critical healthcare services being unavailable to the poor and in some cases the middle class. Prescription drug prices, specifically, in this country are astronomically high in comparison to other countries providing the exact same drugs. If you dumbasses actually think our healthcare system was even remotely affordable prior to ACA then you might as well relinquish your voting rights because you aren't smart enough for the right.

Our healthcare system is not capitalist, regulations prevented providers from competing with each other, which in turn prevents the system from being optimal. Prescription drug prices today are also a result of the government preventing businesses from competing. Drugs use to cost pocket change, but the government created patents, which raised prices drastically.

The ACA cost premiums to rise sharply. My family used to pay 50$ for all twelve of us. They now pay 150$ for six of us, and our family is considered below middle class.

5) Cutting taxes for corporations and top earners does NOTHING to stimulate the overall economy. Why? Because it's easier to keep the money they save rather than invest it. They are already wealthier than ever before. There is no incentive for them to invest in a stronger labor force.

That's completely false. Lower taxes help smaller businesses expand, which creates more jobs, and causes the economy to improve. Big businesses that the government hasn't already forced into a monopoly with their regulations also risk losing ground and money to their competition if they don't expand, meaning money IS incentive enough, regardless of how much they have. It has been proven numerous times that the economy improves with lower taxes.

Now am I suggesting we get rid of capitalism? Absolutely not. I just want a system that guarantees more capital to the poor and shrinking middle class. The basics of the free market system are what helped make this country a super power. It's just gone awry over the last couple of decades.

Here's a bonus task: name ANY republican economic policy that has benefited the middle class. Go ahead. I'll wait.

What has gone wrong is the government expanding as time goes on. This is not capitalism, it's fascistic corporatism. Competition has been strangled out by government regulations, diminishing consumer choices. Making the government the only monopoly through Social Control takes that problem even further. As a matter of fact, more government is not the solution to too much government.


You are right about one thing, though. Republicans don't understand Capitalism. Neither do Democrats, Socialists, Liberals, or anyone else that believes America is capitalist.

When are they gonna pass my tax break?

The fact that you'd rather make an off-topic post than contest any of my points shows you have nothing intelligent to say. You are a fustilarian.

Well you made a lot of good points. I just get mad when republicans lead the give us peons crumbs and the real republicans get hundreds of thousands in tax breaks

Single payer would kill the private healthcare industry but still private insurance that's better will be available to the rich. Imagine how the economy would boom if we all were covered

More people would dare to start a business and not have to worry about insurance

You make good arguments but you're not perfect either

Businesses shouldn't be taxed in the first place, they just pass it down to their consumers since they're all taxed the same. The tax breaks cause them to lower their prices to take business from anyone who doesn't respond the same way to the tax breaks.

Single Payer would also cause Healthcare quality to sink into oblivion and taxes to skyrocket. Waiting times for doctor visits would also drastically increase due to the sheer number of people that would start visiting the doctor due to already paying for it through taxes. The economy would not boom, it would get drastically worse.

No more people than what we already see would start businesses, because government regulations would still remain the same.

I disagree. Not completely but still

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

They like to think they understand it, but they really don't.

Think about the consequences of leaving the free market unregulated and letting the high powered corporate lobbyists make all the rules. This is what's resulted and these are all FACTS:

1) A shockingly huge wealth disparity between the mega rich and the middle class and poor has grown over the course of a few decades. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of inflation despite productivity soaring in most sectors. Most income gains have gone to the top earners in this country for the last few decades.

2) Wall Street corruption directly resulted in the Great Recession of 2008.

3) Corporate crime largely goes unpunished, and when it is punished, the results are petty fines.

4) Our for-profit healthcare system has resulted in many basic, critical healthcare services being unavailable to the poor and in some cases the middle class. Prescription drug prices, specifically, in this country are astronomically high in comparison to other countries providing the exact same drugs. If you dumbasses actually think our healthcare system was even remotely affordable prior to ACA then you might as well relinquish your voting rights because you aren't smart enough for the right.

5) Cutting taxes for corporations and top earners does NOTHING to stimulate the overall economy. Why? Because it's easier to keep the money they save rather than invest it. They are already wealthier than ever before. There is no incentive for them to invest in a stronger labor force.

Now am I suggesting we get rid of capitalism? Absolutely not. I just want a system that guarantees more capital to the poor and shrinking middle class. The basics of the free market system are what helped make this country a super power. It's just gone awry over the last couple of decades.

Here's a bonus task: name ANY republican economic policy that has benefited the middle class. Go ahead. I'll wait.

1. No evidence of so-called wealth disparity exists aside from the wealthy disparity of more capitalist countries to less capitalist countries, where the more capitalist countries come out far ahead.

2. Yes and no. The main cause was the loose monetary policy of the Federal Reserve creating a huge bubble in real estate after the dot-com bubble burst, but there certainly was corruption. Government regulations corrupted the incentives that would have existed on a free market and caused many absurd loans to take place that should not have.

3. This is entirely possible. I don't know the statistics.

4. We don't have a free market based health care system, or health insurance system, despite your implication. What we have is a highly regulated disaster that makes absolutely no logical sense. It's as far from capitalism as we get in the United States.

5. "Keep the money they save rather than invest it." Where do you think they keep it? In their mattresses? They keep the money they save in banks. Do you know what banks do with the money that people leave with them? Invest it.

If you're looking for people who don't understand capitalism, I'd start with a mirror.

1) Last I checked, the average CEO's wealth is 300x the average worker.

2) Why do you people insist with this bullshit that government red tape is the reason our healthcare system is so fucked? It's because of corporate greed and lobbying.

3) You do know billionaires exist right?

1. That's a fun statistic. Seems like one of those things you find on the internet that has no basis in fact. Fun though.

2. Why do you insist it isn't? Do you deny that health care is the most regulated industry in the U.S.? Does it not seem odd that less regulated industries, such as technology, somehow don't have the same problems despite "corporate greed and lobbying?"

3. And here I thought they were up there with unicorns.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

They like to think they understand it, but they really don't.

Think about the consequences of leaving the free market unregulated and letting the high powered corporate lobbyists make all the rules. This is what's resulted and these are all FACTS:

1) A shockingly huge wealth disparity between the mega rich and the middle class and poor has grown over the course of a few decades. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of inflation despite productivity soaring in most sectors. Most income gains have gone to the top earners in this country for the last few decades.

2) Wall Street corruption directly resulted in the Great Recession of 2008.

3) Corporate crime largely goes unpunished, and when it is punished, the results are petty fines.

4) Our for-profit healthcare system has resulted in many basic, critical healthcare services being unavailable to the poor and in some cases the middle class. Prescription drug prices, specifically, in this country are astronomically high in comparison to other countries providing the exact same drugs. If you dumbasses actually think our healthcare system was even remotely affordable prior to ACA then you might as well relinquish your voting rights because you aren't smart enough for the right.

5) Cutting taxes for corporations and top earners does NOTHING to stimulate the overall economy. Why? Because it's easier to keep the money they save rather than invest it. They are already wealthier than ever before. There is no incentive for them to invest in a stronger labor force.

Now am I suggesting we get rid of capitalism? Absolutely not. I just want a system that guarantees more capital to the poor and shrinking middle class. The basics of the free market system are what helped make this country a super power. It's just gone awry over the last couple of decades.

Here's a bonus task: name ANY republican economic policy that has benefited the middle class. Go ahead. I'll wait.

1. No evidence of so-called wealth disparity exists aside from the wealthy disparity of more capitalist countries to less capitalist countries, where the more capitalist countries come out far ahead.

2. Yes and no. The main cause was the loose monetary policy of the Federal Reserve creating a huge bubble in real estate after the dot-com bubble burst, but there certainly was corruption. Government regulations corrupted the incentives that would have existed on a free market and caused many absurd loans to take place that should not have.

3. This is entirely possible. I don't know the statistics.

4. We don't have a free market based health care system, or health insurance system, despite your implication. What we have is a highly regulated disaster that makes absolutely no logical sense. It's as far from capitalism as we get in the United States.

5. "Keep the money they save rather than invest it." Where do you think they keep it? In their mattresses? They keep the money they save in banks. Do you know what banks do with the money that people leave with them? Invest it.

If you're looking for people who don't understand capitalism, I'd start with a mirror.

1) Last I checked, the average CEO's wealth is 300x the average worker.

2) Why do you people insist with this bullshit that government red tape is the reason our healthcare system is so fucked? It's because of corporate greed and lobbying.

3) You do know billionaires exist right?

Because that IS the reason. If the government didn't have power over the economy, there would be no lobbyists. Putting the government in control of healthcare means there's no competition anymore, allowing price gouging and creating a monopoly. What we have right now is the next-to-worst case scenario in terms of Healthcare. Every problem within the healthcare system, every single little problem, is because of government. From the system in its entirety, right down the the cost of medicine, caused by patents and regulations, both the government's fault.

My family's costs went from 50$ for all of us, to 150$ for six of us.

Don't you see how ridiculous it is to put all the blame on the government and not ANY to the actual lobbyists?

If a kindergarden teacher gives all the students pixie stix and candy bars and then leaves the room, who do you blame when they come back and the room is destroyed? The teacher or the students?

 

[Tehon]

Does it not seem odd that less regulated industries, such as technology, somehow don't have the same problems despite "corporate greed and lobbying?"

Not if you take into consideration that the tech industry was able to free itself from domestic labor, which is emblematic of corporate greed and lobbying. The tech industry also has real competition from foreign companies, unlike the virtual monopoly we have in our domestic healthcare industry.

 

[Norman]

They like to think they understand it, but they really don't.

Think about the consequences of leaving the free market unregulated and letting the high powered corporate lobbyists make all the rules. This is what's resulted and these are all FACTS:

1) A shockingly huge wealth disparity between the mega rich and the middle class and poor has grown over the course of a few decades. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of inflation despite productivity soaring in most sectors. Most income gains have gone to the top earners in this country for the last few decades.

2) Wall Street corruption directly resulted in the Great Recession of 2008.

3) Corporate crime largely goes unpunished, and when it is punished, the results are petty fines.

4) Our for-profit healthcare system has resulted in many basic, critical healthcare services being unavailable to the poor and in some cases the middle class. Prescription drug prices, specifically, in this country are astronomically high in comparison to other countries providing the exact same drugs. If you dumbasses actually think our healthcare system was even remotely affordable prior to ACA then you might as well relinquish your voting rights because you aren't smart enough for the right.

5) Cutting taxes for corporations and top earners does NOTHING to stimulate the overall economy. Why? Because it's easier to keep the money they save rather than invest it. They are already wealthier than ever before. There is no incentive for them to invest in a stronger labor force.

Now am I suggesting we get rid of capitalism? Absolutely not. I just want a system that guarantees more capital to the poor and shrinking middle class. The basics of the free market system are what helped make this country a super power. It's just gone awry over the last couple of decades.

Here's a bonus task: name ANY republican economic policy that has benefited the middle class. Go ahead. I'll wait.

Theft and coercion is the only thing far leftists understand.

Capitalism has worked everywhere it has been tried... unless of course you are thief or extraordinarily dumb. Then it doesn't work at all. And that would be the aim... may I recommend Venezuela?

 

[dblack]

No, the United States of America is a national government, not a society. Societies create governments. I'm guessing you think it's the other way around, eh? That governments create societies?

Who created our government? Here is a hint.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Well then we agree. Earlier, you seemed to be conflating society with government. I'll take it as a typo.

We the people agreed to form a government in order to assist with the organization of our society. We call our society the United States of America. That's what was meant.

Fair enough. I'm always leery of attempts to equate government with a society, or even a 'country'. To me they're not the same thing at all.

The government is a representation of us. If we are going to be greedy self indulgent people primarily concerned with our own self interests. Well, what type of government did you think we would get?

Government does more than represent us. It mandates conformity.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Does it not seem odd that less regulated industries, such as technology, somehow don't have the same problems despite "corporate greed and lobbying?"

Not if you take into consideration that the tech industry was able to free itself from domestic labor, which is emblematic of corporate greed and lobbying. The tech industry also has real competition from foreign companies, unlike the virtual monopoly we have in our domestic healthcare industry.

Regulations wouldn't have anything to do with making it harder for newer companies to enter the health care field, would they?