Republicans' laughable/despicable hypocrisy on ACA

[francoHFW]

You're so gd stupid. To get health care, sick people and people with pre-existing contions had to quit their jobs and go on welfare to get care. Also, with Pub scam insurance, 500k people year WITH insurance went bankrupt and lost everything. Change the gd channel and learn something. And 45k people a year DYING.

Why cant insurance be regulated against fraud without forc

Everyone needs health coverage, and people with prexisting can't be covered without it.

 

[francoHFW]

You're so gd stupid. To get health care, sick people and people with pre-existing contions had to quit their jobs and go on welfare to get care. Also, with Pub scam insurance, 500k people year WITH insurance went bankrupt and lost everything. Change the gd channel and learn something. And 45k people a year DYING.

So let me get this right, francoHFW
in order to regulate insurance companies, first you force every citizen in the nation to buy insurance, as a bribe to corporate
Insurance lobbies to pass regulations where they pass those expenses to the taxpayers anyway.

Sounds like the deal to reorganize house loans to prevent Muslims from paying usury -- by increasing the base cost so much the total cost divided over monthly payment

The TRANSPARENT COMPETITION in the exchanges bring down the costs. The taxpayers were already paying for that health care- in the stupidest, cruelest way possible. NOW the poorer workers will pay what they can afford, get preventive care, NOT go on welfare to get Medicaid, etc etc. CHANGE THE CHANNEL, Pub dupe.

You're so gd stupid. To get health care, sick people and people with pre-existing contions had to quit their jobs and go on welfare to get care. Also, with Pub scam insurance, 500k people year WITH insurance went bankrupt and lost everything. Change the gd channel and learn something. And 45k people a year DYING.

So let me get this right, francoHFW
in order to regulate insurance companies, first you force every citizen in the nation to buy insurance, as a bribe to corporate
Insurance lobbies to pass regulations where they pass those expenses to the taxpayers anyway.

Sounds like the deal to reorganize house loans to prevent Muslims from paying usury -- by increasing the base cost so much the total cost divided over monthly payment

The TRANSPARENT COMPETITION in the exchanges bring down the costs. The taxpayers were already paying for that health care- in the stupidest, cruelest way possible. NOW the poorer workers will pay what they can afford, get preventive care, NOT go on welfare to get Medicaid, etc etc. CHANGE THE CHANNEL, Pub dupe.

Hi francoHFW thanks for explaining that you want transparency. I believe we can work toward that, but NOT by punishing taxpayers losing liberties who committed no crimes. What about the transparency in costs that law abiding citizens pay for convicts in prison costing us 50K a year each, including medical costs?
Where is the outrage to go after freeloaders there? Clearly there is a power grab involved, using the IRS to go after EASY targets which are working taxpayers who will comply with laws. So that's punishing the wrong ppl, and letting people off the hook who are costing way more. If you compare the 49 billion in medical costs versus what PRISONS spend, there is no comparison as to where our money is wasted that could pay for health care.

1. As for exchanges NO: My coworkers cannot afford the insurance options, and still have to pay the penalties as the only thing they can afford. I have two friends, one liberal prochoice lifelong Democrat who can't afford the cost of insurance and the deductible to get treatment, and one conservative who can't afford to fix his broken arm after he lost his job and his insurance through that. All I could offer them is to do an online gofundme raiser and try to set up microlending to pay these costs. So why would the option of microlending be FINED if it's needed anyway to pay costs that insurance doesn't cover? Especially for people who can't afford this "discounted insurance" you boast about. So out of all that money that is REQUIRED for citizens to pay for INSURANCE (which isn't directly covering health care but is going to private insurance companies) why can't people count as an exemption the money they pay directly for health care costs. Why can't it be counted if you pay costs directly, why is insurance the only option when insurance isn't enough to cover all the costs or all the population!

2. francoHFW what do you think of the idea of going after inmates and immigrants who owe restitution for violations of law? What about transparency and responsibility for paying back costs that we CAN TRACE directly to the people incurring these costs.

Doesn't it make more sense to hold people accountable who CAN BE PROVEN by DUE PROCESS to incur thousands of dollars each in costs, and billions per state in border states of CA and TX alone, and use THOSE credits reimbursed back to taxpayers to pay for health care.

What sense does it make to punish the lawabiding taxpayers, who are already paying for health care for people in prison, by forcing us to pay more (for costs we didn't incur) and taking away our liberty with federal mandates. Aren't you punishing the wrong people and letting others off the hook who are responsible for costs?

How transparent do you want to go with this?

If you live in a non-cooperating Red state, I don't want to hear how awful it is.

Ditto- I doubt you have looked into the costs and subsidies or medicaid if in you're in a red state or area. Your boss sounds like a Pub dupe too. lol Not cooperating because of misinformation. Costs will bend down MORE AND MORE.

Yup, we have far too many people in prison. The courts have decided their health care, and prisoners hardly want to be there. Let the nonviolents out and put them on welfare looking for work. This PUB system is STUPID.

Your insurance cost will go down, and it's affordable NOW in blue states, and the only freedom you're giving up is big worry, criminal irresponsibility, and spending STUPID money on freeloaders' care, welfare, and bankruptcies...

Most transparency possibe.

 

[emilynghiem]

Sorry

You're so gd stupid. To get health care, sick people and people with pre-existing contions had to quit their jobs and go on welfare to get care. Also, with Pub scam insurance, 500k people year WITH insurance went bankrupt and lost everything. Change the gd channel and learn something. And 45k people a year DYING.

So let me get this right, francoHFW
in order to regulate insurance companies, first you force every citizen in the nation to buy insurance, as a bribe to corporate
Insurance lobbies to pass regulations where they pass those expenses to the taxpayers anyway.

Sounds like the deal to reorganize house loans to prevent Muslims from paying usury -- by increasing the base cost so much the total cost divided over monthly payment

The TRANSPARENT COMPETITION in the exchanges bring down the costs. The taxpayers were already paying for that health care- in the stupidest, cruelest way possible. NOW the poorer workers will pay what they can afford, get preventive care, NOT go on welfare to get Medicaid, etc etc. CHANGE THE CHANNEL, Pub dupe.

You're so gd stupid. To get health care, sick people and people with pre-existing contions had to quit their jobs and go on welfare to get care. Also, with Pub scam insurance, 500k people year WITH insurance went bankrupt and lost everything. Change the gd channel and learn something. And 45k people a year DYING.

So let me get this right, francoHFW
in order to regulate insurance companies, first you force every citizen in the nation to buy insurance, as a bribe to corporate
Insurance lobbies to pass regulations where they pass those expenses to the taxpayers anyway.

Sounds like the deal to reorganize house loans to prevent Muslims from paying usury -- by increasing the base cost so much the total cost divided over monthly payment

The TRANSPARENT COMPETITION in the exchanges bring down the costs. The taxpayers were already paying for that health care- in the stupidest, cruelest way possible. NOW the poorer workers will pay what they can afford, get preventive care, NOT go on welfare to get Medicaid, etc etc. CHANGE THE CHANNEL, Pub dupe.

Hi francoHFW thanks for explaining that you want transparency. I believe we can work toward that, but NOT by punishing taxpayers losing liberties who committed no crimes. What about the transparency in costs that law abiding citizens pay for convicts in prison costing us 50K a year each, including medical costs?
Where is the outrage to go after freeloaders there? Clearly there is a power grab involved, using the IRS to go after EASY targets which are working taxpayers who will comply with laws. So that's punishing the wrong ppl, and letting people off the hook who are costing way more. If you compare the 49 billion in medical costs versus what PRISONS spend, there is no comparison as to where our money is wasted that could pay for health care.

1. As for exchanges NO: My coworkers cannot afford the insurance options, and still have to pay the penalties as the only thing they can afford. I have two friends, one liberal prochoice lifelong Democrat who can't afford the cost of insurance and the deductible to get treatment, and one conservative who can't afford to fix his broken arm after he lost his job and his insurance through that. All I could offer them is to do an online gofundme raiser and try to set up microlending to pay these costs. So why would the option of microlending be FINED if it's needed anyway to pay costs that insurance doesn't cover? Especially for people who can't afford this "discounted insurance" you boast about. So out of all that money that is REQUIRED for citizens to pay for INSURANCE (which isn't directly covering health care but is going to private insurance companies) why can't people count as an exemption the money they pay directly for health care costs. Why can't it be counted if you pay costs directly, why is insurance the only option when insurance isn't enough to cover all the costs or all the population!

2. francoHFW what do you think of the idea of going after inmates and immigrants who owe restitution for violations of law? What about transparency and responsibility for paying back costs that we CAN TRACE directly to the people incurring these costs.

Doesn't it make more sense to hold people accountable who CAN BE PROVEN by DUE PROCESS to incur thousands of dollars each in costs, and billions per state in border states of CA and TX alone, and use THOSE credits reimbursed back to taxpayers to pay for health care.

What sense does it make to punish the lawabiding taxpayers, who are already paying for health care for people in prison, by forcing us to pay more (for costs we didn't incur) and taking away our liberty with federal mandates. Aren't you punishing the wrong people and letting others off the hook who are responsible for costs?

How transparent do you want to go with this?

If you live in a non-cooperating Red state, I don't want to hear how awful it is.

Ditto- I doubt you have looked into the costs and subsidies or medicaid if in you're in a red state or area. Your boss sounds like a Pub dupe too. lol Not cooperating because of misinformation. Costs will bend down MORE AND MORE.

Yup, we have far too many people in prison. The courts have decided their health care, and prisoners hardly want to be there. Let the nonviolents out and put them on welfare looking for work. This PUB system is STUPID.

Your insurance cost will go down, and it's affordable NOW in blue states, and the only freedom you're giving up is big worry, criminal irresponsibility, and spending STUPID money on freeloaders' care, welfare, and bankruptcies...

Most transparency possibe.

Sorry francoHFW but my sense of ethics kicks in and says the better way to regulate insurance and medical care is free market and free choice.

Especially when issues like abortion are decided in favor of free choice which is more important than letting govt step in and dictate.
It isn't fair or equal to ask prolife people to put their beliefs and the goal of protecting life and health ASIDE for the sake of free choice. And then go override free choice out of fear insurance cannot be regulated except by mandating it. That is discrimination by defending prochoice only for abortion, which has higher documented risks of causing permanent irreversible harm, but overregulating choices of insurance which causes no harm to pay other ways.

This is clearly political bias, and it risks shutting down the Democrats for discrimination that can be proven, thanks to this continued bias in legislative agenda.

I never thought I'd have to sue my own party, but if lawsuits are the only way, thats where this is heading. We could lose any defense of prochoice because Democrats have shown willingness to pass antichoice laws like ACA, banning of conversion therapy, and other things that cause less harm than abortion.

Ridiculous. This is why liberals look insane.
And why ppl say I can't be one if I stand for the Constitution over party politics.

To defend prochoice, it must be consistent.
Not a political control game of dictating choices then complaining when ppl dont agree. How is that prochoice. It's selling out and saying govt needs to regulate choices!

 

[whitehall]

There are what? Grant programs set up under the law that is longer than a Stephen King novel that nobody in the democrat party even freaking read before they used extortion and bribes to get it passed? What kind of grants? I might apply for one myself as long as stupid democrats are shoveling taxpayer money out the door.

 

[francoHFW]

Another couple of way off dupes lol...

Grants? WTH?

Abortions? Not changed by ACA. Free birthh control to cut abortion and unwaned babies though. TY, Dems.

 

[emilynghiem]

You're so gd stupid. To get health care, sick people and people with pre-existing contions had to quit their jobs and go on welfare to get care. Also, with Pub scam insurance, 500k people year WITH insurance went bankrupt and lost everything. Change the gd channel and learn something. And 45k people a year DYING.

Why cant insurance be regulated against fraud without forc

Everyone needs health coverage, and people with prexisting can't be covered without it.

Sorry but mandating insurance is not the same as covering health care. Insurance does not cover all ppl or all costs. Insurance does not train doctors or nurses and does not create clinics to serve the public. Since added resources are needed to create medical programs and facilities to meet the greater demands, the mandates are taking resources AWAY from these other areas that need to be developed and FORCING it to be paid toward insurance. Insurance is not the same as paying for health care. Why do you think the groups that are for universal coverage are against ACA as a corporate scam. You are doing this cause a disservice by reinforcing ACA. Thats like forcing ppl to buy lottery tickets to raise money for education instead of funding education and school development directly. Sorry but it is never ethical to force people to buy a private service from for-profit companies. its bad enough forcing ppl to pay for govt programs that violate religious freedom, but to add requirements to participate in private commerce is another level -- it is mandating taxes without direct check or control because it is outside govt and also not directly paying for health care. Bizarre how the human mind can justify this.

I guess its like the people who can or cannot justify in their minds the war waged in Iraq. They cannot wrap their minds around the opposite viewpoint. To one it is lawful use ofmilitary and govt authority; to another it is unprovoked attack and genocide against innocent civilians who arent responsible for terrorist oppression they are equall victims of, not the perpetrators. And here, the same ppl protesting right to life threatening govt imposition on the freedom of choice are letting these mandates get pushed as the right to health care trumping free choice.

What gets me is the ppl for universal coverage are AGAINST ACA insurance mandates but wont speak up in public. They let the rightwing opposition fight that battle. Crazymaking.

 

[francoHFW]

You're so gd stupid. To get health care, sick people and people with pre-existing contions had to quit their jobs and go on welfare to get care. Also, with Pub scam insurance, 500k people year WITH insurance went bankrupt and lost everything. Change the gd channel and learn something. And 45k people a year DYING.

Why cant insurance be regulated against fraud without forc

Everyone needs health coverage, and people with prexisting can't be covered without it.

Sorry but mandating insurance is not the same as covering health care. Insurance does not cover all ppl or all costs. Insurance does not train doctors or nurses and does not create clinics to serve the public. Since added resources are needed to create medical programs and facilities to meet the greater demands, the mandates are taking resources AWAY from these other areas that need to be developed and FORCING it to be paid toward insurance. Insurance is not the same as paying for health care. Why do you think the groups that are for universal coverage are against ACA as a corporate scam. You are doing this cause a disservice by reinforcing ACA. Thats like forcing ppl to buy lottery tickets to raise money for education instead of funding education and school development directly. Sorry but it is never ethical to force people to buy a private service from for-profit companies. its bad enough forcing ppl to pay for govt programs that violate religious freedom, but to add requirements to participate in private commerce is another level -- it is mandating taxes without direct check or control because it is outside govt and also not directly paying for health care. Bizarre how the human mind can justify this.

I guess its like the people who can or cannot justify in their minds the war waged in Iraq. They cannot wrap their minds around the opposite viewpoint. To one it is lawful use ofmilitary and govt authority; to another it is unprovoked attack and genocide against innocent civilians who arent responsible for terrorist oppression they are equall victims of, not the perpetrators. And here, the same ppl protesting right to life threatening govt imposition on the freedom of choice are letting these mandates get pushed as the right to health care trumping free choice.

What gets me is the ppl for universal coverage are AGAINST ACA insurance mandates but wont speak up in public. They let the rightwing opposition fight that battle. Crazymaking.

This is a helluva lot better than nothing lol.

To be against ACA is a misinformed or just plain stupid choice. The old greedy idiot Pub system was a ridiculously overpriced disaster for the economy. CHANGE THE CHANNEL.

 

[emilynghiem]

Another couple of way off dupes lol...

Grants? WTH?

Abortions? Not changed by ACA. Free birthh control to cut abortion and unwaned babies though. TY, Dems.

The Democrats have enough voting base and support to fund their own prochoice health care, and let prolife conservatives fund their own health care. It is disingenuous to demand that all people pay in, including prolife, but then only allow govt to represent prochoice agenda. Same with right to die. Why not separate funding by party so ppl can pay into programs they believe in. Lets be honest. If public money paid for prolife programs or Christian agenda, there would be cries to separate church and state. So why should taxpayers be forced to fund liberal agenda that dictates their choices even against their beliefs. If Christians did that with their right to life creed, it gets struck down as establishing faith based beliefs. Why are secular beliefs in right to health care allowed to trump free choice, but not beliefs in right to life?

Are you saying as long as a majority votes then it is okay for govt to establish a certain faith for all citizens to fund required by federal mandates? So the First Amendment can be overruled as long as majority rules?

Really?

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Really, want to debate me? You're a stupid, ignorant, partisan asshole.

LOL...

I know right?

 

[francoHFW]

Abortions are not covered by ACA period. Are you that misinformed?

 

[emilynghiem]

You're so gd stupid. To get health care, sick people and people with pre-existing contions had to quit their jobs and go on welfare to get care. Also, with Pub scam insurance, 500k people year WITH insurance went bankrupt and lost everything. Change the gd channel and learn something. And 45k people a year DYING.

Why cant insurance be regulated against fraud without forc

Everyone needs health coverage, and people with prexisting can't be covered without it.

Sorry but mandating insurance is not the same as covering health care. Insurance does not cover all ppl or all costs. Insurance does not train doctors or nurses and does not create clinics to serve the public. Since added resources are needed to create medical programs and facilities to meet the greater demands, the mandates are taking resources AWAY from these other areas that need to be developed and FORCING it to be paid toward insurance. Insurance is not the same as paying for health care. Why do you think the groups that are for universal coverage are against ACA as a corporate scam. You are doing this cause a disservice by reinforcing ACA. Thats like forcing ppl to buy lottery tickets to raise money for education instead of funding education and school development directly. Sorry but it is never ethical to force people to buy a private service from for-profit companies. its bad enough forcing ppl to pay for govt programs that violate religious freedom, but to add requirements to participate in private commerce is another level -- it is mandating taxes without direct check or control because it is outside govt and also not directly paying for health care. Bizarre how the human mind can justify this.

I guess its like the people who can or cannot justify in their minds the war waged in Iraq. They cannot wrap their minds around the opposite viewpoint. To one it is lawful use ofmilitary and govt authority; to another it is unprovoked attack and genocide against innocent civilians who arent responsible for terrorist oppression they are equall victims of, not the perpetrators. And here, the same ppl protesting right to life threatening govt imposition on the freedom of choice are letting these mandates get pushed as the right to health care trumping free choice.

What gets me is the ppl for universal coverage are AGAINST ACA insurance mandates but wont speak up in public. They let the rightwing opposition fight that battle. Crazymaking.

This is a helluva lot better than nothing lol.

To be against ACA is a misinformed or just plain stupid choice. The old greedy idiot Pub system was a ridiculously overpriced disaster for the economy. CHANGE THE CHANNEL.

???

What???

The movement for universal coverage is against ACA.

I will ask my friends to post that on a thread.
That is dangerous to keep relying on the rightwing to fight against ACA if it gives this wrong impression of tolerating it. At most it is a temporary set up to use as leverage to force further change since nobody really wants ACA as is, nobody wants to pay for it but expects other ppl to pay.

This is really messed up. The people who passed it should be sued.

The only ppl Ive found who support it expect other ppl to pay. Well guess what, those other ppl don't agree to pay under terms the taxpayers didn't vote on. And when I ask around, most ppl want either free market or universal care INSTEAD of insurance mandates they dont agree to. Instead of aligning in united opposition to replace ACA, such as delegating equal choices of programs by party, ppl are still competing to push their way as the only way so there isnt an agreement to change it to free choice, which would allow citizens to fund the system of health care they believe in.

So we're stuck with a bill no one agrees to pay for, but everyone assumes someone else will pay for or is responsible for changing? How FU is that?

 

[dblack]

Republicans are blatantly profiting off of ObamaCare while also implementing some of its provisions ...

Of course they are. It was originally a Republican idea. And the Democrats implemented it for them. Fuckers are all on the same side.

 

[francoHFW]

Really, want to debate me? You're a stupid, ignorant, partisan asshole.

LOL...

I know right?

Only if you're GOP hater dupes...which you are lol...sorry, FUNCTIONALY stupid.

 

[francoHFW]

You're so gd stupid. To get health care, sick people and people with pre-existing contions had to quit their jobs and go on welfare to get care. Also, with Pub scam insurance, 500k people year WITH insurance went bankrupt and lost everything. Change the gd channel and learn something. And 45k people a year DYING.

Why cant insurance be regulated against fraud without forc

Everyone needs health coverage, and people with prexisting can't be covered without it.

Sorry but mandating insurance is not the same as covering health care. Insurance does not cover all ppl or all costs. Insurance does not train doctors or nurses and does not create clinics to serve the public. Since added resources are needed to create medical programs and facilities to meet the greater demands, the mandates are taking resources AWAY from these other areas that need to be developed and FORCING it to be paid toward insurance. Insurance is not the same as paying for health care. Why do you think the groups that are for universal coverage are against ACA as a corporate scam. You are doing this cause a disservice by reinforcing ACA. Thats like forcing ppl to buy lottery tickets to raise money for education instead of funding education and school development directly. Sorry but it is never ethical to force people to buy a private service from for-profit companies. its bad enough forcing ppl to pay for govt programs that violate religious freedom, but to add requirements to participate in private commerce is another level -- it is mandating taxes without direct check or control because it is outside govt and also not directly paying for health care. Bizarre how the human mind can justify this.

I guess its like the people who can or cannot justify in their minds the war waged in Iraq. They cannot wrap their minds around the opposite viewpoint. To one it is lawful use ofmilitary and govt authority; to another it is unprovoked attack and genocide against innocent civilians who arent responsible for terrorist oppression they are equall victims of, not the perpetrators. And here, the same ppl protesting right to life threatening govt imposition on the freedom of choice are letting these mandates get pushed as the right to health care trumping free choice.

What gets me is the ppl for universal coverage are AGAINST ACA insurance mandates but wont speak up in public. They let the rightwing opposition fight that battle. Crazymaking.

This is a helluva lot better than nothing lol.

To be against ACA is a misinformed or just plain stupid choice. The old greedy idiot Pub system was a ridiculously overpriced disaster for the economy. CHANGE THE CHANNEL.

???

What???

The movement for universal coverage is against ACA.

I will ask my friends to post that on a thread.
That is dangerous to keep relying on the rightwing to fight against ACA if it gives this wrong impression of tolerating it. At most it is a temporary set up to use as leverage to force further change since nobody really wants ACA as is, nobody wants to pay for it but expects other ppl to pay.

This is really messed up. The people who passed it should be sued.

The only ppl Ive found who support it expect other ppl to pay. Well guess what, those other ppl don't agree to pay under terms the taxpayers didn't vote on. And when I ask around, most ppl want either free market or universal care INSTEAD of insurance mandates they dont agree to. Instead of aligning in united opposition to replace ACA, such as delegating equal choices of programs by party, ppl are still competing to push their way as the only way so there isnt an agreement to change it to free choice, which would allow citizens to fund the system of health care they believe in.

So we're stuck with a bill no one agrees to pay for, but everyone assumes someone else will pay for or is responsible for changing? How FU is that?

ACA is LAW. And WAY overdue, AND the best we're going to do. Get your AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE and stop listening to total bs, Pub dupe.

 

[emilynghiem]

You're so gd stupid. To get health care, sick people and people with pre-existing contions had to quit their jobs and go on welfare to get care. Also, with Pub scam insurance, 500k people year WITH insurance went bankrupt and lost everything. Change the gd channel and learn something. And 45k people a year DYING.

Why cant insurance be regulated against fraud without forc

Everyone needs health coverage, and people with prexisting can't be covered without it.

Sorry but mandating insurance is not the same as covering health care. Insurance does not cover all ppl or all costs. Insurance does not train doctors or nurses and does not create clinics to serve the public. Since added resources are needed to create medical programs and facilities to meet the greater demands, the mandates are taking resources AWAY from these other areas that need to be developed and FORCING it to be paid toward insurance. Insurance is not the same as paying for health care. Why do you think the groups that are for universal coverage are against ACA as a corporate scam. You are doing this cause a disservice by reinforcing ACA. Thats like forcing ppl to buy lottery tickets to raise money for education instead of funding education and school development directly. Sorry but it is never ethical to force people to buy a private service from for-profit companies. its bad enough forcing ppl to pay for govt programs that violate religious freedom, but to add requirements to participate in private commerce is another level -- it is mandating taxes without direct check or control because it is outside govt and also not directly paying for health care. Bizarre how the human mind can justify this.

I guess its like the people who can or cannot justify in their minds the war waged in Iraq. They cannot wrap their minds around the opposite viewpoint. To one it is lawful use ofmilitary and govt authority; to another it is unprovoked attack and genocide against innocent civilians who arent responsible for terrorist oppression they are equall victims of, not the perpetrators. And here, the same ppl protesting right to life threatening govt imposition on the freedom of choice are letting these mandates get pushed as the right to health care trumping free choice.

What gets me is the ppl for universal coverage are AGAINST ACA insurance mandates but wont speak up in public. They let the rightwing opposition fight that battle. Crazymaking.

This is a helluva lot better than nothing lol.

To be against ACA is a misinformed or just plain stupid choice. The old greedy idiot Pub system was a ridiculously overpriced disaster for the economy. CHANGE THE CHANNEL.

Requiring all citizens to go through Christian spiritual healing would cut costs of cancer, crime, drug addiction and other mental and physical illness. It could be proven to save lives, and would be "Better than nothing."

But by human nature that choice has to be made by free will, and it is against the First Amendment to abuse govt to establish a belief. The same with right to life, and the same with right to health care. These are faith based beliefs not all ppl share, that must be respected as free choice, and is against Constitutional principles to establish by govt, much more so to require funding under penalty of law. Sorry but this is contradictory to natural law and Constitutional laws, no matter how much good it does, just like Christianity does moregood and would save more lives to require but is unlawful to mandate by govt. Sorry but where beliefs are involved, govt is not authorized to mandate much less penalize.

 

[emilynghiem]

Why cant insurance be regulated against fraud without forc

Everyone needs health coverage, and people with prexisting can't be covered without it.

Sorry but mandating insurance is not the same as covering health care. Insurance does not cover all ppl or all costs. Insurance does not train doctors or nurses and does not create clinics to serve the public. Since added resources are needed to create medical programs and facilities to meet the greater demands, the mandates are taking resources AWAY from these other areas that need to be developed and FORCING it to be paid toward insurance. Insurance is not the same as paying for health care. Why do you think the groups that are for universal coverage are against ACA as a corporate scam. You are doing this cause a disservice by reinforcing ACA. Thats like forcing ppl to buy lottery tickets to raise money for education instead of funding education and school development directly. Sorry but it is never ethical to force people to buy a private service from for-profit companies. its bad enough forcing ppl to pay for govt programs that violate religious freedom, but to add requirements to participate in private commerce is another level -- it is mandating taxes without direct check or control because it is outside govt and also not directly paying for health care. Bizarre how the human mind can justify this.

I guess its like the people who can or cannot justify in their minds the war waged in Iraq. They cannot wrap their minds around the opposite viewpoint. To one it is lawful use ofmilitary and govt authority; to another it is unprovoked attack and genocide against innocent civilians who arent responsible for terrorist oppression they are equall victims of, not the perpetrators. And here, the same ppl protesting right to life threatening govt imposition on the freedom of choice are letting these mandates get pushed as the right to health care trumping free choice.

What gets me is the ppl for universal coverage are AGAINST ACA insurance mandates but wont speak up in public. They let the rightwing opposition fight that battle. Crazymaking.

This is a helluva lot better than nothing lol.

To be against ACA is a misinformed or just plain stupid choice. The old greedy idiot Pub system was a ridiculously overpriced disaster for the economy. CHANGE THE CHANNEL.

???

What???

The movement for universal coverage is against ACA.

I will ask my friends to post that on a thread.
That is dangerous to keep relying on the rightwing to fight against ACA if it gives this wrong impression of tolerating it. At most it is a temporary set up to use as leverage to force further change since nobody really wants ACA as is, nobody wants to pay for it but expects other ppl to pay.

This is really messed up. The people who passed it should be sued.

The only ppl Ive found who support it expect other ppl to pay. Well guess what, those other ppl don't agree to pay under terms the taxpayers didn't vote on. And when I ask around, most ppl want either free market or universal care INSTEAD of insurance mandates they dont agree to. Instead of aligning in united opposition to replace ACA, such as delegating equal choices of programs by party, ppl are still competing to push their way as the only way so there isnt an agreement to change it to free choice, which would allow citizens to fund the system of health care they believe in.

So we're stuck with a bill no one agrees to pay for, but everyone assumes someone else will pay for or is responsible for changing? How FU is that?

ACA is LAW. And WAY overdue, AND the best we're going to do. Get your AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE and stop listening to total bs, Pub dupe.

Laws used to treat slaves as property.
Freeing slaves was punishable as theft of property.

Restitution for slavery is beyond what anyone can legally track or pay for.

Who is willing to pay for ACA.
The ones who support it should just pay for voluntary participants who support it and agree to the terms.

Voluntary participation would make it Constitutional. As long as it is involuntary, it is forcing ppl to forfeit taxes or labor under terms not voted on or consented to. So this is a form of involuntary servitude.

Sorry you dont see it. But this is similar to how slavery was justified as economically necessary. You are treating citizens as slaves all over again.

 

[emilynghiem]

My point

Abortions are not covered by ACA period. Are you that misinformed?

My point francoHFW is to respect both the beliefs of prochoice and prolife, both right to health care under govt and right to life under the free choice of free market, charity, schools businesses and free enterprise without dictating these choice thru govt only.

To be fully Constitutional means to respect and include all creeds equally. This bill discriminates and exempts some while penalizing others. So I advocate to separate choices by party so citizens can fund the programs they believe in. End of arguments!
Everyone can fund health care by their beliefs, instead of trying to impose one way through govt not all ppl believe in and which doesn't cover all the demand anyway.

 

[francoHFW]

THIS is about hospitals and medicine, you know. lol

 

[emilynghiem]

THIS is about hospitals and medicine, you know. lol

Dear francoHFW
1. Yes! So why mandate INSURANCE when INSURANCE does NOT build hospitals, train doctors,
or produce any medicine, treatment or services.

It does NOT go into "hospitals or medicine."
YOU ARE DIVERTING RESOURCES AWAY FROM THE ACTUAL SERVICES AND PROVIDERS!

You are mandating that money go toward THIRD PARTY PRIVATE COMPANIES that manage payments.
These do NOT create any services or facilities for the added millions of insured being added to the system.

2. Here is the real push for SinglePayer.
Health Care For All Texas - Houston TX - Medical Health Facebook

Even the Universal "Health Care for All" want to REMOVE the private middle man which is insurance companies making money, instead of paying for health care programs directly!

So both sides AGREE they want to get rid of the private insurance "middle man".

3. Where the sides disagree
A. the movement to establish that "health care is a right" see this as a govt duty.
This is a political belief, and is not shared by all people. But this side feels that
mandating it by majority rule or court ruling is sufficient to establish this BELIEF by law as mandatory for everyone. (The rightwing believe a Constitutional Amendment is necessary to be voted on by the States BEFORE adding health care as a duty of federal govt to regulate. So they see this automatic implementation of health care as imposing a BELIEF without going through the process of representing the people, and using DUE PROCESS of LAW before "depriving people of liberty")

B. The free market and limited govt movement
see the SERVICES and MATERIAL MEDICAL RESOURCES/EQUIPMENT
as costing SOMEONE their labor to produce and provide.

So this is NOT FREE.

This cannot be deemed to be FREE without relying on LABOR of people to produce it.

So this must be VOLUNTARY.

It cannot be MANDATED by govt AGAINST THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE PROVIDING LABOR/RESOURCES
without creating a state of INVOLUNTARY SERVITUDE.

That's FINE if people give CHARITABLY by CHOICE, such as donating services or money to
CHARITY programs, hospitals or investing in medical schools to help serve the public.

BUT IT HAS TO BE VOLUNTARY or its FORCED LABOR.

That's where the left doesn't get it.

If you want something to be FREE you can VOLUNTEER YOUR OWN LABOR
and resources, but cannot force other people to.

And most of all, if there are already charitable programs and people giving to medical foundations,
why not respect those choices?

Why try to override the free choices people make to contribute their resources and labor,
and try to FORCE it through GOVT mandates that VIOLATE people's beliefs?

This is where the left has lost it.

You wouldn't allow Christian groups to force everyone in the nation to fund THOSE CHARITIES
no matter how many lives would be saved.

Yet the left is doing this with THEIR political beliefs, and trying to pass this as secular govt.

It's still a BELIEF about health care, and the flaw is mandating that other people
volunteer their labor to pay for services, instead of keeping this VOLUNTARY.

Voluntary participation and giving is in keeping with HUMAN NATURE and free will.

Trying to override that is going against the natural laws of how human free will works.
So that is what is causing this political split.

The left understands free will when it comes to free choice of abortion.
But someone has lost any sense of free choice when it comes to health care in general.

There is some political bias so engrained,
that people cannot see their own bias when pushing this legislation.

Again, all I can think of, is this is some backlash for when the right
couldn't see their bias in supporting Bush even in military and executive actions that exceeded Constitutional limits.

So the left violates its own principle of prochoice;
and the right violates its own principle of Constitutional limits on federal govt.

That's the only way I can make sense of why these sides are so blinded. They have contradicted their own principles, and wonder why they don't make sense to other people looking in from the outside.

 

[francoHFW]

Actually, that health insurance DOES pay for doctors and hospitals, etc. Over time, insurers will become nonprofits. Single payer would be better, but Switzerland and the Netherlands proves this works just fine.