Republicans Holding 3 Million Transportation Jobs Hostage For 6,000 Temp. Oil Jobs

[SniperFire]

Public workers are an expense to the system.

 

[Darkwind]

The second law of thermodynamics says perpetual motion machines are impossible.

Thats right, because the energy put into the system will always be a bit less than the energy taken out of the system. Therefore, the system winds down to a halt.

The same for government. When the employees wages of government exceed the willingness or ability of the private sector to support it, it will slowly wind down to a halt.

Now, it can be sustained if we always have more to put in than is taken out. That means if we have just the bare essentials, we can keep government running indefinitely.

The moment that more jobs are added, the more that the system moves to the negative from the positive.

We need defense and some structure that interacts with the world at large, but for the most part, federal government should be the least of the energy expenditures in this country.

We're talking about people - not machines.

We are talking about dynamic systems.. If you don't understand it, say so and try to learn something.

 

[Vidi]

Make no mistake. While its not as bad as the 1930's ANY sustained downturn is by definition a depression and thats what we are in right now...a depression.

So, lets look at it this way:

What got us out of the Great Depression?

There are only two possible answers:

1) FDRs New Deal policies

or

2) gearing up for World War II

either way you look at it, they are BOTH Government spending.

Government MUST play a limited role in the economy unless theres a crisis. Then the government is our safety net. It MUST spend when no one else will in order to get the machine running again.

Darkwind, to use your analogy, when the battery runs out of power, what do you do? Either replace the battery or you jump start the engine and let it recharge, right?

Thats governments role in an economic crisis. To be the jumper cables. Get the engine going again then get its ass back into the trunk and out of the way.

 

[Darkwind]

Public workers are an expense to the system.

Very much so. But like any economic system, there have to be some expenses, or there will be no profit.

However, when the expenses exceed the profits, the entire thing crashes down.

 

[Avorysuds]

The teachers don't teach, so they provide us with nothing. Most of the money goes to parasites of one form or another.

the fact that you think teachers, police, firefighters and soldiers are parasites shows you have nothing of value to offer to the conversation.

Are you ten years old?

Teachers, police, and firefighters are a product of the local communities and not of the federal government. The energy they sap from the system is so miniscule as to be negligent when compared to the Feds.

Your bogyman wants to be retired soon.

There are literally thousands of other drains on the people though the government that are not fire, police and teachers.

But you do not want to talk about the drain on energy they have, do you?

He gave you a "liberal response." It seems you in fact do hate fire fighters, police officers and teachers.

I just can’t believe the world never saw the downside to having the Government create tens of millions upon tens millions of firefighters, police officers and teachers… You would be the super power on the planet!

They all pay taxes right???? All someone that gets 100% of their pay from the Government needs to do is pay 30% taxes and somehow that 30% will pay 100% of the population.

Maybe we'll just print or borrow the other 70% if it's an issue!

 

[Vidi]

The teachers don't teach, so they provide us with nothing. Most of the money goes to parasites of one form or another.

the fact that you think teachers, police, firefighters and soldiers are parasites shows you have nothing of value to offer to the conversation.

Most public school teachers are no better than parasites. They don't teach. Kids leave school totally ignorant. Many of them can't even read. Every public school teachers know parents would send their kids elsewhere if the taxpayers didn't have to pay for the swill they dish out.

Soldiers do provide a valuable services: protection from foreign predators. Policemen and firemen are grossly overpaid for the poor service they provide, but at least they provide something of value. However, their salaries consume a tiny fraction of government spending. The vast bulk of it goes to provide sustenance for parasites.

based on your response, I stand by my statement. Nothing of value.

 

[Listening]

Make no mistake. While its not as bad as the 1930's ANY sustained downturn is by definition a depression and thats what we are in right now...a depression.

So, lets look at it this way:

What got us out of the Great Depression?

There are only two possible answers:

1) FDRs New Deal policies

or

2) gearing up for World War II

either way you look at it, they are BOTH Government spending.

Government MUST play a limited role in the economy unless theres a crisis. Then the government is our safety net. It MUST spend when no one else will in order to get the machine running again.

Darkwind, to use your analogy, when the battery runs out of power, what do you do? Either replace the battery or you jump start the engine and let it recharge, right?

Thats governments role in an economic crisis. To be the jumper cables. Get the engine going again then get its ass back into the trunk and out of the way.

Just what do you think S.S. and medicare do ? They put money in people's hands who spend it.....

We are dishing out at an astronomical rate....and yet we crashed the economy anyway. They keep spending....a lot more than the stimulus from what I recall.

Keep dreaming. Keynsian economics does not work.

We would have gotten out of the depression sooner if FDR had kept a more limited role.

 

[Vidi]

Public workers are an expense to the system.

Very much so. But like any economic system, there have to be some expenses, or there will be no profit.However, when the expenses exceed the profits, the entire thing crashes down.

I agree BUT expenses will always match profits when looking at the private industry as a whole.

Your spending is MY income and vice versa.

 

[Vidi]

Make no mistake. While its not as bad as the 1930's ANY sustained downturn is by definition a depression and thats what we are in right now...a depression.

So, lets look at it this way:

What got us out of the Great Depression?

There are only two possible answers:

1) FDRs New Deal policies

or

2) gearing up for World War II

either way you look at it, they are BOTH Government spending.

Government MUST play a limited role in the economy unless theres a crisis. Then the government is our safety net. It MUST spend when no one else will in order to get the machine running again.

Darkwind, to use your analogy, when the battery runs out of power, what do you do? Either replace the battery or you jump start the engine and let it recharge, right?

Thats governments role in an economic crisis. To be the jumper cables. Get the engine going again then get its ass back into the trunk and out of the way.

Just what do you think S.S. and medicare do ? They put money in people's hands who spend it.....

We are dishing out at an astronomical rate....and yet we crashed the economy anyway. They keep spending....a lot more than the stimulus from what I recall.

Keep dreaming. Keynsian economics does not work.

We would have gotten out of the depression sooner if FDR had kept a more limited role.

You avoided the point. try again.

 

[Darkwind]

Make no mistake. While its not as bad as the 1930's ANY sustained downturn is by definition a depression and thats what we are in right now...a depression.

So, lets look at it this way:

What got us out of the Great Depression?

There are only two possible answers:

1) FDRs New Deal policies

or

2) gearing up for World War II

either way you look at it, they are BOTH Government spending.

Government MUST play a limited role in the economy unless theres a crisis. Then the government is our safety net. It MUST spend when no one else will in order to get the machine running again.

Darkwind, to use your analogy, when the battery runs out of power, what do you do? Either replace the battery or you jump start the engine and let it recharge, right?

Thats governments role in an economic crisis. To be the jumper cables. Get the engine going again then get its ass back into the trunk and out of the way.

No, you get out and walk.

Government does play a role. You seem to have just glossed right over the fact that I did NOT say that all government is bad, and that I DID say that some energy must be expended. In fact, I said that if we manage our system carefully, and keep the drain less than the input, it can run indefinitely, didn't I?

But that means that we have to control, curb and restrict government to just those essentials that we need. Right now, we are so far past the deluxe model that you'd have to multiply it by orders of magnitude.

Also....It wasn't FDR. It was Adolph Hitler that added energy back into our failing system.

Not only did the driver of the dead car get out and push, but the whole county helped him....

Guess who those people were? Here is a hint...it was not government. It was the private citizen, stepping up to the plate and making it happen.

That is why I know for a fact, that it is and always will be, the private sector that will keep this country afloat.

No government can do that.

 

[SniperFire]

What got us out of the Great Depression?

Harding cut spending and the 1920 Depression was over in about two years.

 

[Listening]

Public workers are an expense to the system.

Very much so. But like any economic system, there have to be some expenses, or there will be no profit.However, when the expenses exceed the profits, the entire thing crashes down.

I agree BUT expenses will always match profits when looking at the private industry as a whole.

Your spending is MY income and vice versa.

Wrong again.

Investment increases wealth in the aggregate. It creates resources like plants that then create products on a continual basis and we all do better when this is going on.

Just giving someone a few bucks to spend is just at the base level. Neutral at best. If it robs investment in capacity...it is downer.....and is not sustainable.

 

[Listening]

Make no mistake. While its not as bad as the 1930's ANY sustained downturn is by definition a depression and thats what we are in right now...a depression.

So, lets look at it this way:

What got us out of the Great Depression?

There are only two possible answers:

1) FDRs New Deal policies

or

2) gearing up for World War II

either way you look at it, they are BOTH Government spending.

Government MUST play a limited role in the economy unless theres a crisis. Then the government is our safety net. It MUST spend when no one else will in order to get the machine running again.

Darkwind, to use your analogy, when the battery runs out of power, what do you do? Either replace the battery or you jump start the engine and let it recharge, right?

Thats governments role in an economic crisis. To be the jumper cables. Get the engine going again then get its ass back into the trunk and out of the way.

Just what do you think S.S. and medicare do ? They put money in people's hands who spend it.....

We are dishing out at an astronomical rate....and yet we crashed the economy anyway. They keep spending....a lot more than the stimulus from what I recall.

Keep dreaming. Keynsian economics does not work.

We would have gotten out of the depression sooner if FDR had kept a more limited role.

You avoided the point. try again.

You don't think that what you are touting is Keynesian ?

 

[Darkwind]

Public workers are an expense to the system.

Very much so. But like any economic system, there have to be some expenses, or there will be no profit.However, when the expenses exceed the profits, the entire thing crashes down.

I agree BUT expenses will always match profits when looking at the private industry as a whole.

Your spending is MY income and vice versa.

what? No they don't...Companies and countries fail on a model like that.

If there is no profit, there is no industry. In this case, the profit benefits the people, not the government. Government is just an item on a ledger. One to be carefully controlled.

 

[Vidi]

Make no mistake. While its not as bad as the 1930's ANY sustained downturn is by definition a depression and thats what we are in right now...a depression.

So, lets look at it this way:

What got us out of the Great Depression?

There are only two possible answers:

1) FDRs New Deal policies

or

2) gearing up for World War II

either way you look at it, they are BOTH Government spending.

Government MUST play a limited role in the economy unless theres a crisis. Then the government is our safety net. It MUST spend when no one else will in order to get the machine running again.

Darkwind, to use your analogy, when the battery runs out of power, what do you do? Either replace the battery or you jump start the engine and let it recharge, right?

Thats governments role in an economic crisis. To be the jumper cables. Get the engine going again then get its ass back into the trunk and out of the way.

No, you get out and walk.

Government does play a role. You seem to have just glossed right over the fact that I did NOT say that all government is bad, and that I DID say that some energy must be expended. In fact, I said that if we manage our system carefully, and keep the drain less than the input, it can run indefinitely, didn't I?

But that means that we have to control, curb and restrict government to just those essentials that we need. Right now, we are so far past the deluxe model that you'd have to multiply it by orders of magnitude.

Also....It wasn't FDR. It was Adolph Hitler that added energy back into our failing system.

Not only did the driver of the dead car get out and push, but the whole county helped him....

Guess who those people were? Here is a hint...it was not government. It was the private citizen, stepping up to the plate and making it happen.

That is why I know for a fact, that it is and always will be, the private sector that will keep this country afloat.

No government can do that.

false.

the private citizen did not purchase tanks, jeeps, airplanes and battleships. Or guns and ammo, or uniforms and helmets.

The government did that.

theres NO WAY around that point.

If as you say Adolph hitler put the fire back in the economy, then you have agreed that it was government spending for World War II that got us out of the Great Depression.

And you dont get out and walk. You fix the damned car and drive on. getting out and walking is quitting. America is not peopled by quitters...at least we didnt used to be.

 

[SniperFire]

Public workers are an expense to the system.

Very much so. But like any economic system, there have to be some expenses, or there will be no profit.However, when the expenses exceed the profits, the entire thing crashes down.

I agree BUT expenses will always match profits when looking at the private industry as a whole.

Your spending is MY income and vice versa.

It is not a zero sum game, moron.

 

[Darkwind]

the fact that you think teachers, police, firefighters and soldiers are parasites shows you have nothing of value to offer to the conversation.

Are you ten years old?

Teachers, police, and firefighters are a product of the local communities and not of the federal government. The energy they sap from the system is so miniscule as to be negligent when compared to the Feds.

Your bogyman wants to be retired soon.

There are literally thousands of other drains on the people though the government that are not fire, police and teachers.

But you do not want to talk about the drain on energy they have, do you?

He gave you a "liberal response." It seems you in fact do hate fire fighters, police officers and teachers.

I just can’t believe the world never saw the downside to having the Government create tens of millions upon tens millions of firefighters, police officers and teachers… You would be the super power on the planet!

They all pay taxes right???? All someone that gets 100% of their pay from the Government needs to do is pay 30% taxes and somehow that 30% will pay 100% of the population.

Maybe we'll just print or borrow the other 70% if it's an issue!

I in fact do not hate Firefighters, Police, or Teachers. I just will not allow anyone to use them as a bogyman to scare Me. I am NOT ten years old and understand the system better.

There is much more to government than firefighters, police, and teachers.

But you knew that, right?

 

[Vidi]

Very much so. But like any economic system, there have to be some expenses, or there will be no profit.However, when the expenses exceed the profits, the entire thing crashes down.

I agree BUT expenses will always match profits when looking at the private industry as a whole.

Your spending is MY income and vice versa.

what? No they don't...Companies and countries fail on a model like that.

If there is no profit, there is no industry. In this case, the profit benefits the people, not the government. Government is just an item on a ledger. One to be carefully controlled.

Youre not wrong but youre missing the point.

You are thinking in terms of a single company. I was speaking in terms of the economy as a whole.

If Company A buys widgets from company B, then company A's expenses are Company Bs income. Company A's spending matches Company Bs income.

In those terms, expenses will ALWAYS match income.

 

[BDBoop]

Optimism sparks up as transportation bill talks get a fresh start - The Hill's Transportation Report

 

[Darkwind]

Make no mistake. While its not as bad as the 1930's ANY sustained downturn is by definition a depression and thats what we are in right now...a depression.

So, lets look at it this way:

What got us out of the Great Depression?

There are only two possible answers:

1) FDRs New Deal policies

or

2) gearing up for World War II

either way you look at it, they are BOTH Government spending.

Government MUST play a limited role in the economy unless theres a crisis. Then the government is our safety net. It MUST spend when no one else will in order to get the machine running again.

Darkwind, to use your analogy, when the battery runs out of power, what do you do? Either replace the battery or you jump start the engine and let it recharge, right?

Thats governments role in an economic crisis. To be the jumper cables. Get the engine going again then get its ass back into the trunk and out of the way.

No, you get out and walk.

Government does play a role. You seem to have just glossed right over the fact that I did NOT say that all government is bad, and that I DID say that some energy must be expended. In fact, I said that if we manage our system carefully, and keep the drain less than the input, it can run indefinitely, didn't I?

But that means that we have to control, curb and restrict government to just those essentials that we need. Right now, we are so far past the deluxe model that you'd have to multiply it by orders of magnitude.

Also....It wasn't FDR. It was Adolph Hitler that added energy back into our failing system.

Not only did the driver of the dead car get out and push, but the whole county helped him....

Guess who those people were? Here is a hint...it was not government. It was the private citizen, stepping up to the plate and making it happen.

That is why I know for a fact, that it is and always will be, the private sector that will keep this country afloat.

No government can do that.

false.

the private citizen did not purchase tanks, jeeps, airplanes and battleships. Or guns and ammo, or uniforms and helmets.

The government did that.

theres NO WAY around that point.

If as you say Adolph hitler put the fire back in the economy, then you have agreed that it was government spending for World War II that got us out of the Great Depression.

And you dont get out and walk. You fix the damned car and drive on. getting out and walking is quitting. America is not peopled by quitters...at least we didnt used to be.

What? The private citizens DID purchase the tanks, the jeeps, planes and battleships.

You talk as if the government is a separate entity...Not only did they purchase them, they put their rage, blood, sweat and desire to survive into them by constructing them.

Government is nothing without the people and the economy that the people create. How hard is that to understand?