Republicans: Do you believe that there are individuals who cannot help themselves?

[kwc57]

So I was correct.

Why in the world didn't you just say so?

Strange.

.

Are you of the opinion that there isn't a multitude of charitable organizations out there designed specifically to provide help to those in need and all one need do is ask for their help?

Are you also of the opinion that it is the constitutional responsibilty of the government to provide these services by forcibly taxing citizens (detrimental to their freedom and liberty) to provide service against their will?

If so, I find your opinions equally strange.

I am of the opinion that charitable organizations don't have near the resources to deal with what has become of this country. I am also of the opinion that there is no law that requires you to give an inch, nor is there a constitutional requirement for you to acknowledge the dire straits in which so many of your fellow Americans find themselves. I am also of the opinion that you have every right to close your eyes to the lives so many of your fellow Americans have to live.

I'm also a First Amendment purist, which means I support your right to talk about your "freedom" and your "liberty" while you know quite well that millions of Americans simply never had a chance. And there is no law forcing anyone, as far as I know, from ignoring and/or avoiding the unavoidable shit hole of a life so many Americans enjoy today.

"I don't give a crap about anyone else, let 'em rot if there's not enough help for them, after all, this is America" is definitely constitutionally-protected speech and opinion. As is "if someone is in trouble, it's their own fault, they're responsible for their own life, too bad."

God Bless America, huh?

.

I love how you make an ass of yourself assuming so much about others. You think I'm a hateful, uncaring conservative that got mine and screw everyone else. You couldn't be further from the truth. Only one single aspect of my giving that I will discuss with you here is that I'm a Boy Scout leader who works with two different groups. One is a fairly affluent troop in a "nice" part ot town and the other is an at risk troop in the "bad" part of town. No one asked me to work with either group, nor was I forced. I work with them because I was raised in a conservative Christian home where you serve your community. Serve period. Not just those less fortunate, but all. Charity comes from the heart, not at the end of the government's gun barrel. I can better serve people in my local community where I know and understand their needs much better than I can someone 500 miles away from where I live. I know that there are people in the community 500 miles from me who are doing the same thing. I give countless hours of my personal time, talent and dollars to Boy Scouts and other worthy charities in my community.......just as people in every community do. I'm forced to give up my hard earned dollars to the government in the form of taxes to provide "charity" at home and abroad without any say in how it will be used. I willingly give her at home of my own free accord. So, your assumptions are incorrect as to my views. My suggestion to you, get off your ass and go do something in your local community. I don't care if it is taking sandwiches to the homeless or providing rides to cancer patients going for their chemo. Give from your heart and teach others by your example. Quit sitting in your armchair telling yourself how great it is that your government is taking your money to provide a living for folks unwilling to provide for themselves along with people in true need.

 

[kwc57]

If your sister chose not to buy health insurance because she didn't feel sick and instead spent her money on cheap perfume and trampy clothes what should we do with her if she comes down with cancer?

It was her poor personal responsibility that lead to her not having insurance. When we let her die, do we just leave her to die or can the taxpayer provide her with basic comforts?

Wow, you really don't understand the concept of personal responsibility or voluntary charity do you? Which government agency comes and wipes your ass for you every time you take a crap? Do you have to prearrange it and hold it or do they arrive on demand?

What difference does it make whether it is the government or a private charity providing help to someone who refuses to work?

It isn't hard to understand unless you have a closed mind, which you do. You'll have to ferret it out yourself as I do not have the inclination to continue providing you with answers that you will continue to ignore.

 

[Mac1958]

Are you of the opinion that there isn't a multitude of charitable organizations out there designed specifically to provide help to those in need and all one need do is ask for their help?

Are you also of the opinion that it is the constitutional responsibilty of the government to provide these services by forcibly taxing citizens (detrimental to their freedom and liberty) to provide service against their will?

If so, I find your opinions equally strange.

I am of the opinion that charitable organizations don't have near the resources to deal with what has become of this country. I am also of the opinion that there is no law that requires you to give an inch, nor is there a constitutional requirement for you to acknowledge the dire straits in which so many of your fellow Americans find themselves. I am also of the opinion that you have every right to close your eyes to the lives so many of your fellow Americans have to live.

I'm also a First Amendment purist, which means I support your right to talk about your "freedom" and your "liberty" while you know quite well that millions of Americans simply never had a chance. And there is no law forcing anyone, as far as I know, from ignoring and/or avoiding the unavoidable shit hole of a life so many Americans enjoy today.

"I don't give a crap about anyone else, let 'em rot if there's not enough help for them, after all, this is America" is definitely constitutionally-protected speech and opinion. As is "if someone is in trouble, it's their own fault, they're responsible for their own life, too bad."

God Bless America, huh?

.

I love how you make an ass of yourself assuming so much about others. You think I'm a hateful, uncaring conservative that got mine and screw everyone else. You couldn't be further from the truth. Only one single aspect of my giving that I will discuss with you here is that I'm a Boy Scout leader who works with two different groups. One is a fairly affluent troop in a "nice" part ot town and the other is an at risk troop in the "bad" part of town. No one asked me to work with either group, nor was I forced. I work with them because I was raised in a conservative Christian home where you serve your community. Serve period. Not just those less fortunate, but all. Charity comes from the heart, not at the end of the government's gun barrel. I can better serve people in my local community where I know and understand their needs much better than I can someone 500 miles away from where I live. I know that there are people in the community 500 miles from me who are doing the same thing. I give countless hours of my personal time, talent and dollars to Boy Scouts and other worthy charities in my community.......just as people in every community do. I'm forced to give up my hard earned dollars to the government in the form of taxes to provide "charity" at home and abroad without any say in how it will be used. I willingly give her at home of my own free accord. So, your assumptions are incorrect as to my views. My suggestion to you, get off your ass and go do something in your local community. I don't care if it is taking sandwiches to the homeless or providing rides to cancer patients going for their chemo. Give from your heart and teach others by your example. Quit sitting in your armchair telling yourself how great it is that your government is taking your money to provide a living for folks unwilling to provide for themselves along with people in true need.

Way ahead of ya, I have been quite involved for decades. Comparing our resumes is irrelevant, however, since one of us is convinced that any more than charity is an invasion of our "freedom" and "liberty", and one of us is not.

.

 

[GuyPinestra]

If your sister chose not to buy health insurance because she didn't feel sick and instead spent her money on cheap perfume and trampy clothes what should we do with her if she comes down with cancer?

It was her poor personal responsibility that lead to her not having insurance. When we let her die, do we just leave her to die or can the taxpayer provide her with basic comforts?

Wow, you really don't understand the concept of personal responsibility or voluntary charity do you? Which government agency comes and wipes your ass for you every time you take a crap? Do you have to prearrange it and hold it or do they arrive on demand?

What difference does it make whether it is the government or a private charity providing help to someone who refuses to work?

Private charities aren't funded by forced taxation. Us conservatives donate FREELY to those organizations. How much do YOU donate?

 

[DiamondDave]

If your sister chose not to buy health insurance because she didn't feel sick and instead spent her money on cheap perfume and trampy clothes what should we do with her if she comes down with cancer?

It was her poor personal responsibility that lead to her not having insurance. When we let her die, do we just leave her to die or can the taxpayer provide her with basic comforts?

Wow, you really don't understand the concept of personal responsibility or voluntary charity do you? Which government agency comes and wipes your ass for you every time you take a crap? Do you have to prearrange it and hold it or do they arrive on demand?

What difference does it make whether it is the government or a private charity providing help to someone who refuses to work?

Because a charity does things voluntarily... those who wish to give to the cause do so voluntarily... help is not owed, it is charity... it can be taken away or withheld from abusers or those who really are not needy...

 

[DiamondDave]

No question there are consequences.....but how bad does a society let those consequences become?

Do we allow people to beg door to door? That is how it was handled before the 1930s.
How do we handle our sick, who because of poor decisions do not have healthcare? Do you walk down the sidewalk on Main Street and watch people spit up blood?

Where is your line?

Again... it is not 'society' letting this happen... it is the fucking individual doing this to themselves

idiot

You have the freedom to fail that goes hand in hand with the freedom to succeed... you have the freedom to fail to the point that you want to put a fucking bullet thru the roof of your mouth (and maybe you fucking do it)... you have the freedom to succeed to the level that you want to squee with glee like a little girl... and everything in between

You make your own line, motherfucker

Interesting viewpoint

More reason I can't wait till we move to a "let him die" society

And again you respond with a slogan and not reality

 

[JohnA]

Wow, you really don't understand the concept of personal responsibility or voluntary charity do you? Which government agency comes and wipes your ass for you every time you take a crap? Do you have to prearrange it and hold it or do they arrive on demand?

What difference does it make whether it is the government or a private charity providing help to someone who refuses to work?

Because a charity does things voluntarily... those who wish to give to the cause do so voluntarily... help is not owed, it is charity... it can be taken away or withheld from abusers or those who really are not needy...

The answer lies in your words
private charity is *true charity* given freely and withheld from those who abuse it
RIGHTLY SO

Where as govt *charity * is taken from my paycheck by mandate so there for is NOT true charity
given to those who hold there hand out without to many questions being asked
because of the PC environment the govt lives in

example
food stamps
if there is a pregnant female who is a member of your ***household ***
no question are allowed to be asked as to assets in the bank, even if the person pregnant is NOT married to another in the home is NOT a family member and is NOT of legal age .
food stamps cannot be denied .if any of all of the above cercumstances exist .
so it goers on
that person becomes pregnant again and a new wave of **entitlement ** is created which is handed down to future generations .
total dependancy ( slavery ) by the govt of generation after generation of citizens .

 

[JohnA]

Wow, you really don't understand the concept of personal responsibility or voluntary charity do you? Which government agency comes and wipes your ass for you every time you take a crap? Do you have to prearrange it and hold it or do they arrive on demand?

What difference does it make whether it is the government or a private charity providing help to someone who refuses to work?

Because a charity does things voluntarily... those who wish to give to the cause do so voluntarily... help is not owed, it is charity... it can be taken away or withheld from abusers or those who really are not needy...

The answer lies in your words
private charity is *true charity* given freely and withheld from those who abuse it
RIGHTLY SO

Where as govt *charity * is taken from my paycheck by mandate so there for is NOT true charity
given to those who hold there hand out without to many questions being asked
because of the PC environment the govt lives in

example
food stamps
if there is a pregnant female who is a member of your ***household ***
no question are allowed to be asked as to assets in the bank, even if the person pregnant is NOT married to another in the home is NOT a family member and is NOT of legal age .
food stamps cannot be denied .if any of all of the above cercumstances exist .
so it goes on
that person becomes pregnant again and a new wave of **entitlement ** is created which is handed down to future generations .
total dependancy ( slavery ) by the govt of generation after generation of citizens .

 

[Harry Dresden]

The larger question is what do we do with people who are unemployable?

The guy who such an asshole that he can't hold a job for more than two weeks. Everyone knows them, most have worked with them

Do we let them starve? Go homeless, beg door to door?

So in your utopian world if you're a big enough asshole you get a free ride?

THAT figures...

What is your alternative?

You want them living under a bridge, knocking on your door begging for food, getting sick and dying in the streets?

What kind of society do you want to live in?

RW....if the person in Question cant hold a job because of their attitude.....that is their problem....why should the public have to pay for an ass like that?....if he wants to beg on a street corner,thats up to him.....if you wanna give him a few bucks....thats up to you....
i dont mind paying taxes to help the truly needy....like the guy steering his wheelchair with his tongue....him and folks like him i have no problems helping,the one who purposely does not want to work.....fuck him....

 

[Harry Dresden]

What is your alternative?

You want them living under a bridge, knocking on your door begging for food, getting sick and dying in the streets?

What kind of society do you want to live in?

You don't get a free ride for being a jerk... sorry...

The alternative?? Personal responsibility...

We have already determined that assholes do not have personal responsibility. If a guy can't hold a job because he has a temper and can't go two weeks without cussing out his boss, and his temper flareups have destroyed his relationship with his family and friends......who takes care of him?

Is the answer to throw him out in the streets and knock on your door begging for food? Will you feed him?

if i know what kind of ass he is....fuck no....i wont give the guy a second thought.....if he at least looks destitute and i dont know anything about him.....he just may get something....

 

[Claudette]

So in your utopian world if you're a big enough asshole you get a free ride?

THAT figures...

What is your alternative?

You want them living under a bridge, knocking on your door begging for food, getting sick and dying in the streets?

What kind of society do you want to live in?

RW....if the person in Question cant hold a job because of their attitude.....that is their problem....why should the public have to pay for an ass like that?....if he wants to beg on a street corner,thats up to him.....if you wanna give him a few bucks....thats up to you....
i dont mind paying taxes to help the truly needy....like the guy steering his wheelchair with his tongue....him and folks like him i have no problems helping,the one who purposely does not want to work.....fuck him....

RW and all those likeminded don't have a problem footing the bills for those that won't earn their own way. After all its the charitable thing to do. Good for em. Kudos and all. Wonder how long THIER money would last if the rest of us could abstain from the whole Welfare deal??

Charity is given freely not coerced by the Govt. You know the Govt that knows how to spend your money way better than you do. The govt that thinks YOUR money grows on a tree.

If your opinion differs from RW and that crew then you are just an asshole. You want folks to die in the streets or starve to death. You have no compassion.

Personally I could give a shit what happens to folks that are riding the Welfare gravy train.

Take the gravy train away and see how long it takes these same poor downtrodden folks to take care of themselves.

Believe me when the free ride comes to a screeching halt they will be scrambling to find work and pay their own bills.

If that doesn't happen then we will have another generation that the taxpayers will be paying for. Oh Joy.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Republicans: Do you believe that there are individuals who cannot help themselves?


They are called liberals.......................

 

[kwc57]

I am of the opinion that charitable organizations don't have near the resources to deal with what has become of this country. I am also of the opinion that there is no law that requires you to give an inch, nor is there a constitutional requirement for you to acknowledge the dire straits in which so many of your fellow Americans find themselves. I am also of the opinion that you have every right to close your eyes to the lives so many of your fellow Americans have to live.

I'm also a First Amendment purist, which means I support your right to talk about your "freedom" and your "liberty" while you know quite well that millions of Americans simply never had a chance. And there is no law forcing anyone, as far as I know, from ignoring and/or avoiding the unavoidable shit hole of a life so many Americans enjoy today.

"I don't give a crap about anyone else, let 'em rot if there's not enough help for them, after all, this is America" is definitely constitutionally-protected speech and opinion. As is "if someone is in trouble, it's their own fault, they're responsible for their own life, too bad."

God Bless America, huh?

.

I love how you make an ass of yourself assuming so much about others. You think I'm a hateful, uncaring conservative that got mine and screw everyone else. You couldn't be further from the truth. Only one single aspect of my giving that I will discuss with you here is that I'm a Boy Scout leader who works with two different groups. One is a fairly affluent troop in a "nice" part ot town and the other is an at risk troop in the "bad" part of town. No one asked me to work with either group, nor was I forced. I work with them because I was raised in a conservative Christian home where you serve your community. Serve period. Not just those less fortunate, but all. Charity comes from the heart, not at the end of the government's gun barrel. I can better serve people in my local community where I know and understand their needs much better than I can someone 500 miles away from where I live. I know that there are people in the community 500 miles from me who are doing the same thing. I give countless hours of my personal time, talent and dollars to Boy Scouts and other worthy charities in my community.......just as people in every community do. I'm forced to give up my hard earned dollars to the government in the form of taxes to provide "charity" at home and abroad without any say in how it will be used. I willingly give her at home of my own free accord. So, your assumptions are incorrect as to my views. My suggestion to you, get off your ass and go do something in your local community. I don't care if it is taking sandwiches to the homeless or providing rides to cancer patients going for their chemo. Give from your heart and teach others by your example. Quit sitting in your armchair telling yourself how great it is that your government is taking your money to provide a living for folks unwilling to provide for themselves along with people in true need.

Way ahead of ya, I have been quite involved for decades. Comparing our resumes is irrelevant, however, since one of us is convinced that any more than charity is an invasion of our "freedom" and "liberty", and one of us is not.

.

Incorrect. More charity is NOT an invasion of our freedom and lberty as charity is freely given. Taxation and government entitlement programs that forcibly take from one person to give to another is NOT charity. You need to understand the definition of the word charity. I bet you think the government engages in philanthropy as well, don't you?

 

[Clementine]

A couple of exampes: the mentally retarded and disabled veterans.

In other words, is there anyone living in this country that NEEDS and DESERVES government assistance? If not, how do you deal with these individuals?

Of course, some need our help, and they get it. That does not mean we shouldn't be infuriated when able bodied people take advantage of the system and end up causing undue burdens on the tax payers. We want to help those who cannot help themselves, but I hate spending money on those who scammers who don't want to work.

 

[Claudette]

Bingo.

 

[Mac1958]

I love how you make an ass of yourself assuming so much about others. You think I'm a hateful, uncaring conservative that got mine and screw everyone else. You couldn't be further from the truth. Only one single aspect of my giving that I will discuss with you here is that I'm a Boy Scout leader who works with two different groups. One is a fairly affluent troop in a "nice" part ot town and the other is an at risk troop in the "bad" part of town. No one asked me to work with either group, nor was I forced. I work with them because I was raised in a conservative Christian home where you serve your community. Serve period. Not just those less fortunate, but all. Charity comes from the heart, not at the end of the government's gun barrel. I can better serve people in my local community where I know and understand their needs much better than I can someone 500 miles away from where I live. I know that there are people in the community 500 miles from me who are doing the same thing. I give countless hours of my personal time, talent and dollars to Boy Scouts and other worthy charities in my community.......just as people in every community do. I'm forced to give up my hard earned dollars to the government in the form of taxes to provide "charity" at home and abroad without any say in how it will be used. I willingly give her at home of my own free accord. So, your assumptions are incorrect as to my views. My suggestion to you, get off your ass and go do something in your local community. I don't care if it is taking sandwiches to the homeless or providing rides to cancer patients going for their chemo. Give from your heart and teach others by your example. Quit sitting in your armchair telling yourself how great it is that your government is taking your money to provide a living for folks unwilling to provide for themselves along with people in true need.

Way ahead of ya, I have been quite involved for decades. Comparing our resumes is irrelevant, however, since one of us is convinced that any more than charity is an invasion of our "freedom" and "liberty", and one of us is not.

.

Incorrect. More charity is NOT an invasion of our freedom and lberty as charity is freely given. Taxation and government entitlement programs that forcibly take from one person to give to another is NOT charity. You need to understand the definition of the word charity. I bet you think the government engages in philanthropy as well, don't you?

Well no, you misunderstood the post. Look what it says: "Any MORE than charity is an invasion..." Charity is charity, provided via contributions. Government involvement via programs for the poor is not charity - it is, as you say, forcibly taken from people.

No, I'm quite aware that the conservative view is that hoping there are resources from charity is all the unfortunate should be allowed. If the resources via charity aren't there, tough shit, it's all your fault anyway. I get it.

Tough shit! And God Bless America! You betcha!

.

 

[kwc57]

Way ahead of ya, I have been quite involved for decades. Comparing our resumes is irrelevant, however, since one of us is convinced that any more than charity is an invasion of our "freedom" and "liberty", and one of us is not.

.

Incorrect. More charity is NOT an invasion of our freedom and lberty as charity is freely given. Taxation and government entitlement programs that forcibly take from one person to give to another is NOT charity. You need to understand the definition of the word charity. I bet you think the government engages in philanthropy as well, don't you?

Well no, you misunderstood the post. Look what it says: "Any MORE than charity is an invasion..." Charity is charity, provided via contributions. Government involvement via programs for the poor is not charity - it is, as you say, forcibly taken from people.

No, I'm quite aware that the conservative view is that hoping there are resources from charity is all the unfortunate should be allowed. If the resources via charity aren't there, tough shit, it's all your fault anyway. I get it.

Tough shit! And God Bless America! You betcha!

.

Tell me Mac.......and be totally honest here.....at the end of the day, who can you depend on to take care of you?

 

[Mac1958]

Incorrect. More charity is NOT an invasion of our freedom and lberty as charity is freely given. Taxation and government entitlement programs that forcibly take from one person to give to another is NOT charity. You need to understand the definition of the word charity. I bet you think the government engages in philanthropy as well, don't you?

Well no, you misunderstood the post. Look what it says: "Any MORE than charity is an invasion..." Charity is charity, provided via contributions. Government involvement via programs for the poor is not charity - it is, as you say, forcibly taken from people.

No, I'm quite aware that the conservative view is that hoping there are resources from charity is all the unfortunate should be allowed. If the resources via charity aren't there, tough shit, it's all your fault anyway. I get it.

Tough shit! And God Bless America! You betcha!

.

Tell me Mac.......and be totally honest here.....at the end of the day, who can you depend on to take care of you?

I don't depend on anyone, nor would I ever want to. The thought is damn near repulsive to me, as I know that I have all the skills and drive needed to accomplish what I expect of myself. Needing assistance would be a dark day indeed. Knowing this makes me feel fortunate, knowing that many simply don't have the same drive and the same skills. Many simply never had the chance, many had horrific luck befall them, many had tragic childhoods that scarred them for life, many simply don't have the mental capacity. Luck of the draw, kind of like the luck I had by being born here and not in, say, Afghanistan.

Why?

 

[koshergrl]

Liberals don't want to foot the bill for the poor, the destitute, the halt and lame.

Their FIRST choice is always to kill them off...via abortion, euthanasia, etc.

Their SECOND choice is to tax the shit out of the rich so they themselves will feel it less, if at all...

 

[rightwinger]

Liberals don't want to foot the bill for the poor, the destitute, the halt and lame.

Their FIRST choice is always to kill them off...via abortion, euthanasia, etc.

Their SECOND choice is to tax the shit out of the rich so they themselves will feel it less, if at all...

Oh cool....we are talking in partisan hyperbole

Can I play?

FIRST........Conservatives only care about the unborn. Once they are born they scream... LET THEM DIE

SECOND.......Conservatives care more about protecting the assets of the wealthy than they care about the struggles of less fortunate Americans