Republicans and the Affordable Care Act

[AmyNation]

There are PROBLEMS with the ACA?

You all were jumping for joy when it passed. Tell us what's wrong with it.

I assume you mean "you" as in "dem dirty liberals" and not me specifically?

Oh now yer' trying to backpedal? And now that you mention it, you ARE one of "dem dirty liberals"

You gonna' say you voted for Romney?

You can't weasel out of this.

Bwhahaha!

I have not back peddled on this, at all. Perhaps you have me confused with a different poster.

Did I vote for Romney? Hell. No.
Did I vote for Obama? Hell. No.

Neither one of those men earned my vote.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

So you're OK with people dying on emergency room tables because of a paperwork glitch.

Because under your way of doing things, that's exactly what would have happened to my insured 4 month old son if he had a serious emergency during the couple months or so I was paying for his health insurance but it wasn't actually there because of a paper work glitch.

Sorry I don't wanna live in that world.

If it's one thing that gubmint is renowned for, it's total absence of paperwork glitches!

The law which requires hospitals to stabilize life threatened patients regardless of ability to pay cuts out the requirement to provide the proper paperwork - government or otherwise - before the patient is stabilized.

 

[AmyNation]

i think being "either or" is being pretty shortsighted.....all one really needs to do is look at Universal healthcare history in other countries similar to the U.S......Great Britain for example....

the U.S. has always taken care of the poor and sick....it is only since we have taken on the poor of the whole world we are having problems....and Obamacare is not going to solve that...

Best thing about Britain's healthcare though, you can opt out if you want private insurance instead of government healthcare.

Every program needs to be like that, from healthcare to social security. You should have the ability to opt out.

the result being a two-tier system.....a good one and a bad one....

i'd like to know why the Amish are exempt from Obamacare.....but not other religions like the Catholics who protest paying for abortion....?

Actually just abot anyone can obtain a waiver on "religious grounds". Yet another flaw of the ACA.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

We need a law requiring doctors to stabilize life threatened patients regardless of ability based on trauma/condition.

Maybe a loss of medical license for any patient not saved, or maybe send them to the clink.

 

[Oddball]

So you're OK with people dying on emergency room tables because of a paperwork glitch.

Because under your way of doing things, that's exactly what would have happened to my insured 4 month old son if he had a serious emergency during the couple months or so I was paying for his health insurance but it wasn't actually there because of a paper work glitch.

Sorry I don't wanna live in that world.

If it's one thing that gubmint is renowned for, it's total absence of paperwork glitches!

The law which requires hospitals to stabilize life threatened patients regardless of ability to pay cuts out the requirement to provide the proper paperwork - government or otherwise - before the patient is stabilized.

Yeah, and how does that translate that gubmint bureaucrats producing any fewer of these "paperwork glitches"?...If performance to date is any indicator, we can expect such "glitches" to skyrocket.

But I guess if it's all free, it's all good.

 

[Oddball]

We need a law requiring doctors to stabilize life threatened patients regardless of ability based on trauma/condition.

Maybe a loss of medical license for any patient not saved, or maybe send them to the clink.

It's called the Hippocratic Oath...Everyone down to EMT-B students take it.

 

[freedombecki]

It's bringing down costs, just not nearly enough.

And if it makes you feel better to call Pelosi or Obama or anyone else a liar to prove some sort of point that makes you feel better than that's fine.

Let me know when you're ready to talk about the issues and not focus on trying to make the other team look stupid.

Gee, my health insurance premiums went up 20% this last renewal. Where are the cost savings? Obama promised reductions in premiums. No one has seen their premiums go down. No one.

Weird, I didn't realize the program was fully implemented. You must be on the fast track.

You mean to say, the highest tax increase on the Middle Class in US history have not kicked in yet and won't until January? Oh, yeah. Doh. Of course it hasn't kicked in yet with Obama waiting until after his reelection to stab taxpayers in the middle class in their backs with a tax he's been just waiting to pass against Americans.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

We need a law requiring doctors to stabilize life threatened patients regardless of ability based on trauma/condition.

Maybe a loss of medical license for any patient not saved, or maybe send them to the clink.

It's called the Hippocratic Oath...Everyone down to EMT-B students take it.

I'm aware. But what im saying is that we need to require patient stabilization. Not a decree on integrity of trying. But a law that means if you fail, you go to jail.

 

[AmyNation]

Obama was reelected, and the ACA will stay. I would like to see the GOP start working to address the flaws in Obamacare since replacing it with RomneyCare is out( not that I was looking forward to that option either).

What do you think are the odds that they will work to amend it and stop wasting time and tax payer money trying to scrap it? Also, thoughts on what the 1st change to the ACA should be?

Personally I think the GOP should totally leave Obamacare alone. Let them own this newest entitlement.

It's obvious to me that the American majority wants it just like it was written. No input from other side.

There is no "I didn't agree to this" waiver in the ACA.

I want the people I voted for in congress to be actually helping me, not acting like 5 year olds who were forced to share a toy. The ACA as it is, has serious flaws and when those flaws hurt Americans, I expect my congressman to work to fix it. Not say "well I didn't write this".

 

[Koios]

Good thing that Medicare costs are ten times less than they were claimed to be, back when the program was started!

Oh yeah....Never mind.

Attaboy, Oddball. Let's relive the 60s, shall we?

Now then, whoduh ever thunk that healthcare costs, driven largely by insurance costs, would outpace inflation by a factor of two, and approach nearly 20 cents of every dollar in our economy? Not me. And seemingly, not folks in LBJ's Admin. Go figure.

Meanwhile, in other of them commie-lefty regimes, like France, Switzerland, etc., who have single-payer and lack all the terrific cost saving / service improving benefits of a for-profit market, they pay about half and live longer while also having about half as many still-born little miracle, on average, as we do.

Go figure.

Oh, suuuuuure...The fact that a gubmint program costs more than 10 times more than it was claimed to (counting inflation, BTW), it's all the fault of the marketplace!

Goddamn, are you Marxist stooges a hoot!

Actually, healthcare is in many ways, monopolized, and not governed by market forces. An example is the little (oops, huge) gift to Big Pharma we've come to know and love as Medicare Part D, or the Prescription Drug Bill ... oft sighted as the worst piece of legislation ever passed, fiscally speaking. No bidding on prescription drugs, as all other countries can, so we pay their asking price, whatever it is. And that's not a marketplace. It's a legislated monopoly, in effect.

 

[emilynghiem]

So you're OK with people dying on emergency room tables because of a paperwork glitch.

Because under your way of doing things, that's exactly what would have happened to my insured 4 month old son if he had a serious emergency during the couple months or so I was paying for his health insurance but it wasn't actually there because of a paper work glitch.

Sorry I don't wanna live in that world.

You already live in that world, and still do.
the health care bill does not fix these things, as private insurance can still limit coverage and is no guarantee you can get everything you need and/or afford it at whatever rates will be.

Just because things you envision will not happen to you now, doesn't mean other people aren't still suffering. So what you are saying, as long as YOU are protected from the things you envision going wrong, you don't care that other people may still be affected? Or the things opponents protest as going wrong that affect them don't count equally in your eyes?

If this bill solves your problems, then great, you pay for it and be under it.
As for those whose problems it doesn't solve, or have new problems that it causes or can't fix, let us be equally free as you to be under and fund the programs we want to make work.

 

[dblack]

So you're OK with people dying on emergency room tables because of a paperwork glitch.

Heh.. no. That's why I didn't say that.

Because under your way of doing things, that's exactly what would have happened to my insured 4 month old son if he had a serious emergency during the couple months or so I was paying for his health insurance but it wasn't actually there because of a paper work glitch.

No, I don't believe that. I've looked into this (though, of course I wouldn't want to do any of your research for you ) Hospitals never practiced the kind of draconian nonsense you want to scare us with. Which is why EMTALA was, and is, unnecessary. But even if we leave it in place, it's not a significant driver of inflation because - as pretty much any doctor or hospital will tell you - it hasn't changed their practices. They didn't turn people away before, and they wouldn't afterward.

Let's be clear here. You don't give a rat's ass about fiscal responsibility (frankly, you don't even comprehend its meaning). You want the opposite. You want everyone to be alleviated of the responsibility of paying for their own health care. That's not a bad motivation, in and of itself. And if it really were simply a matter of waving a wand and making all the unfortunate realities of living go away, I'd be all over it.

But it's not that simple. And what you, and others, are advocating is the classic tradeoff of giving up liberty for promises of security. Worse yet, you're not even promoting a simple tax-supported safety net - which we'd at least have nominal control over as voters. You want to sell us out to the insurance industry as modern serfs.

BTW: you having any luck with documentation of the "fact" emily was wanting to confirm? Just wondered.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The problem with the mandate is not only that the penalty is too small to motivate most of those who choose not to buy health insurance,

I already knew the right wing maintained that what is the best health care program in Mass. Isnt' the same as the rest of the country, but now you are claiming the laws of economics are different in Mass. as well? Because RomneyCare in Mass. has about the same divide between the penalty and the cost of health insurance - yet almost everyone has chosen the insurance over the penalty. Maybe its because health insurance has actual economic value to a person - but a tax penalty does not? Gee whiz, maybe so.

but as written, it is unenforcible. Under the current law the IRS can only attempt to assess the penalty by taking it out of your income tax refund, but by adjusting your withholding, you can avoid having any refund due at the end of the year and so pay no penalty.

You aren't allowed to adjust your withholding willy nilly. Its perjury to lie on your withholding form.

At any rate - you are mistaken. The law only prohibits CRIMINAL penalties for failure to pay the penalty. The IRS may still garnish your wages and seize your bank assets. These are not criminal penalties. You will not go to prison nor have a criminal record - but your property will be seized in order to pay for it.

 

[dblack]

Actually, healthcare is in many ways, monopolized, and not governed by market forces. An example is the little (oops, huge) gift to Big Pharma we've come to know and love as Medicare Part D, or the Prescription Drug Bill ... oft sighted as the worst piece of legislation ever passed, fiscally speaking. No bidding on prescription drugs, as all other countries can, so we pay their asking price, whatever it is. And that's not a marketplace. It's a legislated monopoly, in effect.

Exactly. We need to bust up the monopoly, not turn it into a government sponsored cartel.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Attaboy, Oddball. Let's relive the 60s, shall we?

Now then, whoduh ever thunk that healthcare costs, driven largely by insurance costs, would outpace inflation by a factor of two, and approach nearly 20 cents of every dollar in our economy? Not me. And seemingly, not folks in LBJ's Admin. Go figure.

Meanwhile, in other of them commie-lefty regimes, like France, Switzerland, etc., who have single-payer and lack all the terrific cost saving / service improving benefits of a for-profit market, they pay about half and live longer while also having about half as many still-born little miracle, on average, as we do.

Go figure.

Oh, suuuuuure...The fact that a gubmint program costs more than 10 times more than it was claimed to (counting inflation, BTW), it's all the fault of the marketplace!

Goddamn, are you Marxist stooges a hoot!

Actually, healthcare is in many ways, monopolized, and not governed by market forces. An example is the little (oops, huge) gift to Big Pharma we've come to know and love as Medicare Part D, or the Prescription Drug Bill ... oft sighted as the worst piece of legislation ever passed, fiscally speaking. No bidding on prescription drugs, as all other countries can, so we pay their asking price, whatever it is. And that's not a marketplace. It's a legislated monopoly, in effect.

Of course! Too much government involvement? Then we need more government involvement.

Problem
Reaction
Solution
Problem
reaction
solution

 

[Oddball]

Attaboy, Oddball. Let's relive the 60s, shall we?

Now then, whoduh ever thunk that healthcare costs, driven largely by insurance costs, would outpace inflation by a factor of two, and approach nearly 20 cents of every dollar in our economy? Not me. And seemingly, not folks in LBJ's Admin. Go figure.

Meanwhile, in other of them commie-lefty regimes, like France, Switzerland, etc., who have single-payer and lack all the terrific cost saving / service improving benefits of a for-profit market, they pay about half and live longer while also having about half as many still-born little miracle, on average, as we do.

Go figure.

Oh, suuuuuure...The fact that a gubmint program costs more than 10 times more than it was claimed to (counting inflation, BTW), it's all the fault of the marketplace!

Goddamn, are you Marxist stooges a hoot!

Actually, healthcare is in many ways, monopolized, and not governed by market forces. An example is the little (oops, huge) gift to Big Pharma we've come to know and love as Medicare Part D, or the Prescription Drug Bill ... oft sighted as the worst piece of legislation ever passed, fiscally speaking. No bidding on prescription drugs, as all other countries can, so we pay their asking price, whatever it is. And that's not a marketplace. It's a legislated monopoly, in effect.

Medicare D was the idea of socialist stooges like you....It only became a "giveaway to BigPharma" when a guy with an (R) by his name passed it.

Fact remains that the feds have never ever contained the costs of anything....In fact, the costs of everything they touch go through the roof.

Yet, somehow or another, we're supposed to believe that this time it's going to be different.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Obama was reelected, and the ACA will stay. I would like to see the GOP start working to address the flaws in Obamacare since replacing it with RomneyCare is out( not that I was looking forward to that option either).

What do you think are the odds that they will work to amend it and stop wasting time and tax payer money trying to scrap it? Also, thoughts on what the 1st change to the ACA should be?

Defund it.

 

[dblack]

You aren't allowed to adjust your withholding willy nilly. Its perjury to lie on your withholding form.

At any rate - you are mistaken. The law only prohibits CRIMINAL penalties for failure to pay the penalty. The IRS may still garnish your wages and seize your bank assets. These are not criminal penalties. You will not go to prison nor have a criminal record - but your property will be seized in order to pay for it.

Are these just bad lies, or simple idiocy? Tell me, if you refuse to let them seize your property or garnish your wages or seize your bank account... hmmm, think they'll be any criminal charges then?

 

[Koios]

Actually, healthcare is in many ways, monopolized, and not governed by market forces. An example is the little (oops, huge) gift to Big Pharma we've come to know and love as Medicare Part D, or the Prescription Drug Bill ... oft sighted as the worst piece of legislation ever passed, fiscally speaking. No bidding on prescription drugs, as all other countries can, so we pay their asking price, whatever it is. And that's not a marketplace. It's a legislated monopoly, in effect.

Exactly. We need to bust up the monopoly, not turn it into a government sponsored cartel.

Nah; just do what every other country is doing successfully: bid on prescription drugs, for Medicare recipients. They'd (Big Pharma) bend over backwards getting after that market, were it a market and not merely an asking-price monopoly, by law. Old folks are heavy users, and growing in numbers faster than I can type these letters and spaces. So Big Pharma would cut prices to the quick, saving the American People billions, of Dollars.

 

[emilynghiem]

We need a law requiring doctors to stabilize life threatened patients regardless of ability based on trauma/condition.

Maybe a loss of medical license for any patient not saved, or maybe send them to the clink.

It's called the Hippocratic Oath...Everyone down to EMT-B students take it.

Add to that: we also need both govt and citizens to sign agreements to pay the costs of any violations or abuses that otherwise put a burden on other taxpayers. In other words a "non-hypocrite" oath. So if you want the privileges of rights and freedoms as a US citizen, you cannot abuse law or due process to violate the same rights/freedoms of others. If you use a gun, by the Second Amendment you respect the same rules as a "well-regulated militia" and go through the same training and oath as a police or military officer defending Constitutional law and never abusing firearms or authority to commit crimes. If you use the legal system, you respect the equal due process of others, and never abuse it to obstruct justice and defy equal protections of the law for others; especially if you want the state to pay for your defense and the taxpayers to pay for the costs of prosecution, courts or prison.