Remeber?,,John Kerry:Global Warming Is Real.The Argument Is Over.Anyone Laughing?

[Rexx Taylor]

am I the only one waking up to a 59 degree home? thats a record for me. and its pointless to turn the heat on in this condo being the cold will over power it

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, the proof is that global warming is nothing more than a scare tactic. Some of what I posted are the extremes, but I have more if you like.

The only "proof" is from people who can't understand what they're looking at.

Come on Ray, you're so used to not understanding things you find inconvenient, that you don't support the view that Man is making the Earth warmer is proof that man made global warming is happening.

Nobody has ever been able to prove it, that's the point. Do you really believe that God made a planet with all the resources to make a comfortable life only so we could destroy it?

There was not one factory, one car, one truck, one cow at the end of the ice age. Like I said, this planet changes every single day. It has changed in the past, it's changing now, and it will continue to change in the future no matter if every single human being died tomorrow.

I don't believe in God Ray, you're talking about evidence and proof, and then go talk about God having made stuff.

What are you going on about with factories in the Ice Age?

Come on Ray, we should be beyond this primary school level science, don't you think?

Primary school level and you can't figure out where I was getting at with the end of the ice age and no man to cause it?

I have an entire folder dedicated to Global Warming and the fact that it's not happening. Scientists from all over the world that claim it's entirely BS. A theory? Perhaps, but not a science.

But even if there were empirical evidence that yes, the plant has been warming for the last 500 years, that's nothing for a planet that's millions of years old. If there were any truth to it, warming would be consistent every single year. But it isn't. In fact, the country is experiencing record low temperatures across cities all across the nation. It doesn't look like it's going to warm up anytime soon either; at least here up north.

But again, not indicative of anything. It's still normal with those record low temperatures.

Oh I got what you wanted to say Ray, I just didn't deem it worthy of a reply, seeing as it's so primary school.

Oh, you have a whole folder. Well isn't that nice?

It's science Ray, you may not understand science, but often science doesn't know the answer, science is about searching for those answers. And yes, global warming isn't a 100%.

Basically they know about 85%, and you point to the 15% and say "there, that proves it's 0%" which is ludicrous.

There's a big picture, and then there are lots of smaller pictures, and people like you pick up one small picture and use it to show the big picture. It doesn't work like that Ray.

Saying "it's cold here right now" doesn't mean shit when it comes to GLOBAL warming. You can't tell whether the whole world is colder or warmer.

Also it ignores almost everything else that we do know about man made global warming.

First off, ask yourself where scientists get their money from. Then ask yourself if it's not the goal of many politicians to have more control over the people.

Even if we found any kind of evidence that man has anything to do with the climate, what do you suppose we should do about it, all commit suicide?

It's my rule of law: you can't make an environmentalist happy, it just isn't possible. How do I know this? Because after the trillions of dollars we spent trying to make them happy, they are more miserable today than they were 40 years ago.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The only "proof" is from people who can't understand what they're looking at.

Come on Ray, you're so used to not understanding things you find inconvenient, that you don't support the view that Man is making the Earth warmer is proof that man made global warming is happening.

Nobody has ever been able to prove it, that's the point. Do you really believe that God made a planet with all the resources to make a comfortable life only so we could destroy it?

There was not one factory, one car, one truck, one cow at the end of the ice age. Like I said, this planet changes every single day. It has changed in the past, it's changing now, and it will continue to change in the future no matter if every single human being died tomorrow.

I don't believe in God Ray, you're talking about evidence and proof, and then go talk about God having made stuff.

What are you going on about with factories in the Ice Age?

Come on Ray, we should be beyond this primary school level science, don't you think?

Primary school level and you can't figure out where I was getting at with the end of the ice age and no man to cause it?

I have an entire folder dedicated to Global Warming and the fact that it's not happening. Scientists from all over the world that claim it's entirely BS. A theory? Perhaps, but not a science.

But even if there were empirical evidence that yes, the plant has been warming for the last 500 years, that's nothing for a planet that's millions of years old. If there were any truth to it, warming would be consistent every single year. But it isn't. In fact, the country is experiencing record low temperatures across cities all across the nation. It doesn't look like it's going to warm up anytime soon either; at least here up north.

But again, not indicative of anything. It's still normal with those record low temperatures.

Oh I got what you wanted to say Ray, I just didn't deem it worthy of a reply, seeing as it's so primary school.

Oh, you have a whole folder. Well isn't that nice?

It's science Ray, you may not understand science, but often science doesn't know the answer, science is about searching for those answers. And yes, global warming isn't a 100%.

Basically they know about 85%, and you point to the 15% and say "there, that proves it's 0%" which is ludicrous.

There's a big picture, and then there are lots of smaller pictures, and people like you pick up one small picture and use it to show the big picture. It doesn't work like that Ray.

Saying "it's cold here right now" doesn't mean shit when it comes to GLOBAL warming. You can't tell whether the whole world is colder or warmer.

Also it ignores almost everything else that we do know about man made global warming.

First off, ask yourself where scientists get their money from. Then ask yourself if it's not the goal of many politicians to have more control over the people.

Even if we found any kind of evidence that man has anything to do with the climate, what do you suppose we should do about it, all commit suicide?

It's my rule of law: you can't make an environmentalist happy, it just isn't possible. How do I know this? Because after the trillions of dollars we spent trying to make them happy, they are more miserable today than they were 40 years ago.

I know scientists get their money from different places. The problem here is that scientists are coming up with stuff that is accepted by about 95% or more of scientists. No one person is controlling all this money.

And then the next big problem is, you end up agreeing with the big oil scientists and no one else.

Do politicians want to control people? Maybe, maybe not. The rich certainly want some of this control. Now, do they get their control by talking about global warming? If this were the case, then you'd be supporting global warming. Instead they've sent out a "global warming is a hoax" thing.
The US govt is far more controlled by big oil companies and other companies who have an interest in ignoring environmental issues.

The Koch brothers are the ones spending the most money on politics. They're oil people. Come on. You don't think they're spending a lot of money trying to make global warming look like a hoax?

Well, we have plenty of data that shows man has a lot to do about it.

What should we do? Suicide? Oh, come off it Ray with the simplistic nonsense.

How about investing in more renewable energy? How about increasing public transportation? How about recycling things we use? How about a lot of the things we know will actually make a difference but, for the umpteenth time, seem to have passed you by.

It's your rule of law? What the fuck are you talking about Ray? You're making shit up and then making some fancy title for it so you can ignore reality? Fuck me.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I know scientists get their money from different places. The problem here is that scientists are coming up with stuff that is accepted by about 95% or more of scientists. No one person is controlling all this money.

Busting the 97% Myth | Climategate Book

Do politicians want to control people? Maybe, maybe not. The rich certainly want some of this control. Now, do they get their control by talking about global warming? If this were the case, then you'd be supporting global warming. Instead they've sent out a "global warming is a hoax" thing.
The US govt is far more controlled by big oil companies and other companies who have an interest in ignoring environmental issues.

The more they can BS people about GW, the more they will be permitted to control our energy. Take DumBama for instance, he closed down the Gulf after the oil spill, he closed down power plants that he deemed environmentally unfit to be allowed in this country, he even used taxpayer money for Cash for Clunkers which was a total flop.

Yes, they do use the GW hoax to gain more control over the people.

The Koch brothers are the ones spending the most money on politics. They're oil people. Come on. You don't think they're spending a lot of money trying to make global warming look like a hoax?

No, the Koch brothers do not spend the most money in politics. Yes, they are combatting the GW freaks to sustain business. You see something wrong with that?

Well, we have plenty of data that shows man has a lot to do about it.

And plenty of data that has been proved fudged. These scientists get their paycheck though politicians and they are going to say whatever it is that makes their bosses happy.

What should we do? Suicide? Oh, come off it Ray with the simplistic nonsense.

How about investing in more renewable energy? How about increasing public transportation? How about recycling things we use? How about a lot of the things we know will actually make a difference but, for the umpteenth time, seem to have passed you by.

Do you have a windmill in your backyard? How about solar panels on the roof of your home and garage? Do you use public transportation whenever possible? And when you can't, use your all electric car that you keep plugged in in the garage?

And even if every American lived like this, would that stop the GW people from ever complaining again? Do you think they would go away?

Make a difference? Okay, fair enough. What is the goal that would shut environmentalists up forever and what will it cost us? I want to know, because so far, not one of your kind has ever been able to answer my question.

It's your rule of law? What the fuck are you talking about Ray? You're making shit up and then making some fancy title for it so you can ignore reality? Fuck me.

We have spent trillions of dollars and lost even more in companies moving away just to escape some of our global antics, and thus far, I haven't seen one happy environmentalist yet. Do you know of any, and if so, who are these people?

 

[frigidweirdo]

I know scientists get their money from different places. The problem here is that scientists are coming up with stuff that is accepted by about 95% or more of scientists. No one person is controlling all this money.

Busting the 97% Myth | Climategate Book

Do politicians want to control people? Maybe, maybe not. The rich certainly want some of this control. Now, do they get their control by talking about global warming? If this were the case, then you'd be supporting global warming. Instead they've sent out a "global warming is a hoax" thing.
The US govt is far more controlled by big oil companies and other companies who have an interest in ignoring environmental issues.

The more they can BS people about GW, the more they will be permitted to control our energy. Take DumBama for instance, he closed down the Gulf after the oil spill, he closed down power plants that he deemed environmentally unfit to be allowed in this country, he even used taxpayer money for Cash for Clunkers which was a total flop.

Yes, they do use the GW hoax to gain more control over the people.

The Koch brothers are the ones spending the most money on politics. They're oil people. Come on. You don't think they're spending a lot of money trying to make global warming look like a hoax?

No, the Koch brothers do not spend the most money in politics. Yes, they are combatting the GW freaks to sustain business. You see something wrong with that?

Well, we have plenty of data that shows man has a lot to do about it.

And plenty of data that has been proved fudged. These scientists get their paycheck though politicians and they are going to say whatever it is that makes their bosses happy.

What should we do? Suicide? Oh, come off it Ray with the simplistic nonsense.

How about investing in more renewable energy? How about increasing public transportation? How about recycling things we use? How about a lot of the things we know will actually make a difference but, for the umpteenth time, seem to have passed you by.

Do you have a windmill in your backyard? How about solar panels on the roof of your home and garage? Do you use public transportation whenever possible? And when you can't, use your all electric car that you keep plugged in in the garage?

And even if every American lived like this, would that stop the GW people from ever complaining again? Do you think they would go away?

Make a difference? Okay, fair enough. What is the goal that would shut environmentalists up forever and what will it cost us? I want to know, because so far, not one of your kind has ever been able to answer my question.

It's your rule of law? What the fuck are you talking about Ray? You're making shit up and then making some fancy title for it so you can ignore reality? Fuck me.

We have spent trillions of dollars and lost even more in companies moving away just to escape some of our global antics, and thus far, I haven't seen one happy environmentalist yet. Do you know of any, and if so, who are these people?

Okay, I see you have the ability to post the web address of a dodgy websites. So...?

You're using insults again Ray. Are you some kind of child or an adult?

Obama (his name is Obama for fuck's sake) closed down the gulf after a major oil disaster which polluted the ocean and killed people.

How does this gain more control over the people exactly? Oh, you couldn't go off into the gulf and start drilling for oil. Could you just start doing this under Bush or any other president?

The Koch brothers don't spend the most money in politics? Really? Then who does?

Koch Brothers’ Budget of $889 Million for 2016 Is on Par With Both Parties’ Spending

"
Koch Brothers’ Budget of $889 Million for 2016 Is on Par With Both Parties’ Spending"

Do you know of any other person who spends around $889 million in a year on politics?

"Yes, they are combatting the GW freaks to sustain business. You see something wrong with that?"

Yes, I see they've bought you, and you've been taking in totally. You'll do as you're told.

Yes, there is data that has proven to be wrong. Some scientists will do things badly. But this doesn't mean the good data is any less good.

Your argument here is that there are a few bad apples, so all apples must be bad. That's bad logic Ray. I can imagine Koch brothers' paid workers sitting down and figuring out how to make people like you accept their way of thinking, and they're quite good at it.

They present things in a manner which makes you lose all sense of logic, in order to follow the religion of partisan politics and they KNOW you'll follow.

What do I do?

I don't own a car Ray, never have. I only use public transport. I walk to work. I use the heating only when necessary, it's cold now and I don't have any heating on.

However you've complete ignored all the stuff I said. The only way to reduce things is if the world is on board. The US has lost a lot of dirty industry to China. China will probably get fed up of a polluted world and send their dirty stuff elsewhere. Moving it around doesn't change things.

So, you're basically more interested in money than in actually having a planet that is livable?

 

[frigidweirdo]

am I the only one waking up to a 59 degree home? thats a record for me. and its pointless to turn the heat on in this condo being the cold will over power it

Is your condo the globe?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I know scientists get their money from different places. The problem here is that scientists are coming up with stuff that is accepted by about 95% or more of scientists. No one person is controlling all this money.

Busting the 97% Myth | Climategate Book

Do politicians want to control people? Maybe, maybe not. The rich certainly want some of this control. Now, do they get their control by talking about global warming? If this were the case, then you'd be supporting global warming. Instead they've sent out a "global warming is a hoax" thing.
The US govt is far more controlled by big oil companies and other companies who have an interest in ignoring environmental issues.

The more they can BS people about GW, the more they will be permitted to control our energy. Take DumBama for instance, he closed down the Gulf after the oil spill, he closed down power plants that he deemed environmentally unfit to be allowed in this country, he even used taxpayer money for Cash for Clunkers which was a total flop.

Yes, they do use the GW hoax to gain more control over the people.

The Koch brothers are the ones spending the most money on politics. They're oil people. Come on. You don't think they're spending a lot of money trying to make global warming look like a hoax?

No, the Koch brothers do not spend the most money in politics. Yes, they are combatting the GW freaks to sustain business. You see something wrong with that?

Well, we have plenty of data that shows man has a lot to do about it.

And plenty of data that has been proved fudged. These scientists get their paycheck though politicians and they are going to say whatever it is that makes their bosses happy.

What should we do? Suicide? Oh, come off it Ray with the simplistic nonsense.

How about investing in more renewable energy? How about increasing public transportation? How about recycling things we use? How about a lot of the things we know will actually make a difference but, for the umpteenth time, seem to have passed you by.

Do you have a windmill in your backyard? How about solar panels on the roof of your home and garage? Do you use public transportation whenever possible? And when you can't, use your all electric car that you keep plugged in in the garage?

And even if every American lived like this, would that stop the GW people from ever complaining again? Do you think they would go away?

Make a difference? Okay, fair enough. What is the goal that would shut environmentalists up forever and what will it cost us? I want to know, because so far, not one of your kind has ever been able to answer my question.

It's your rule of law? What the fuck are you talking about Ray? You're making shit up and then making some fancy title for it so you can ignore reality? Fuck me.

We have spent trillions of dollars and lost even more in companies moving away just to escape some of our global antics, and thus far, I haven't seen one happy environmentalist yet. Do you know of any, and if so, who are these people?

Okay, I see you have the ability to post the web address of a dodgy websites. So...?

You're using insults again Ray. Are you some kind of child or an adult?

Obama (his name is Obama for fuck's sake) closed down the gulf after a major oil disaster which polluted the ocean and killed people.

How does this gain more control over the people exactly? Oh, you couldn't go off into the gulf and start drilling for oil. Could you just start doing this under Bush or any other president?

The Koch brothers don't spend the most money in politics? Really? Then who does?

Koch Brothers’ Budget of $889 Million for 2016 Is on Par With Both Parties’ Spending

"
Koch Brothers’ Budget of $889 Million for 2016 Is on Par With Both Parties’ Spending"

Do you know of any other person who spends around $889 million in a year on politics?

"Yes, they are combatting the GW freaks to sustain business. You see something wrong with that?"

Yes, I see they've bought you, and you've been taking in totally. You'll do as you're told.

Yes, there is data that has proven to be wrong. Some scientists will do things badly. But this doesn't mean the good data is any less good.

Your argument here is that there are a few bad apples, so all apples must be bad. That's bad logic Ray. I can imagine Koch brothers' paid workers sitting down and figuring out how to make people like you accept their way of thinking, and they're quite good at it.

They present things in a manner which makes you lose all sense of logic, in order to follow the religion of partisan politics and they KNOW you'll follow.

What do I do?

I don't own a car Ray, never have. I only use public transport. I walk to work. I use the heating only when necessary, it's cold now and I don't have any heating on.

However you've complete ignored all the stuff I said. The only way to reduce things is if the world is on board. The US has lost a lot of dirty industry to China. China will probably get fed up of a polluted world and send their dirty stuff elsewhere. Moving it around doesn't change things.

So, you're basically more interested in money than in actually having a planet that is livable?

I see. So you don't have solar panels and you don't own a windmill. Never owned a car? WTF do you live?

As for the Koch article, the NYT got their information from Sanders during his campaign speeches and it's proven to be false. The Koch's themselves only contributed a fraction of that 889 million and the rest of the money were given by others. Koch only arranged to get the people together to raise that kind of dough. And no, it didn't all go to candidates or the Republican party:

Bernie Sanders’s inaccurate claim that the two Koch brothers will spend more than either major party on 2016 elections

 

[frigidweirdo]

I know scientists get their money from different places. The problem here is that scientists are coming up with stuff that is accepted by about 95% or more of scientists. No one person is controlling all this money.

Busting the 97% Myth | Climategate Book

Do politicians want to control people? Maybe, maybe not. The rich certainly want some of this control. Now, do they get their control by talking about global warming? If this were the case, then you'd be supporting global warming. Instead they've sent out a "global warming is a hoax" thing.
The US govt is far more controlled by big oil companies and other companies who have an interest in ignoring environmental issues.

The more they can BS people about GW, the more they will be permitted to control our energy. Take DumBama for instance, he closed down the Gulf after the oil spill, he closed down power plants that he deemed environmentally unfit to be allowed in this country, he even used taxpayer money for Cash for Clunkers which was a total flop.

Yes, they do use the GW hoax to gain more control over the people.

The Koch brothers are the ones spending the most money on politics. They're oil people. Come on. You don't think they're spending a lot of money trying to make global warming look like a hoax?

No, the Koch brothers do not spend the most money in politics. Yes, they are combatting the GW freaks to sustain business. You see something wrong with that?

Well, we have plenty of data that shows man has a lot to do about it.

And plenty of data that has been proved fudged. These scientists get their paycheck though politicians and they are going to say whatever it is that makes their bosses happy.

What should we do? Suicide? Oh, come off it Ray with the simplistic nonsense.

How about investing in more renewable energy? How about increasing public transportation? How about recycling things we use? How about a lot of the things we know will actually make a difference but, for the umpteenth time, seem to have passed you by.

Do you have a windmill in your backyard? How about solar panels on the roof of your home and garage? Do you use public transportation whenever possible? And when you can't, use your all electric car that you keep plugged in in the garage?

And even if every American lived like this, would that stop the GW people from ever complaining again? Do you think they would go away?

Make a difference? Okay, fair enough. What is the goal that would shut environmentalists up forever and what will it cost us? I want to know, because so far, not one of your kind has ever been able to answer my question.

It's your rule of law? What the fuck are you talking about Ray? You're making shit up and then making some fancy title for it so you can ignore reality? Fuck me.

We have spent trillions of dollars and lost even more in companies moving away just to escape some of our global antics, and thus far, I haven't seen one happy environmentalist yet. Do you know of any, and if so, who are these people?

Okay, I see you have the ability to post the web address of a dodgy websites. So...?

You're using insults again Ray. Are you some kind of child or an adult?

Obama (his name is Obama for fuck's sake) closed down the gulf after a major oil disaster which polluted the ocean and killed people.

How does this gain more control over the people exactly? Oh, you couldn't go off into the gulf and start drilling for oil. Could you just start doing this under Bush or any other president?

The Koch brothers don't spend the most money in politics? Really? Then who does?

Koch Brothers’ Budget of $889 Million for 2016 Is on Par With Both Parties’ Spending

"
Koch Brothers’ Budget of $889 Million for 2016 Is on Par With Both Parties’ Spending"

Do you know of any other person who spends around $889 million in a year on politics?

"Yes, they are combatting the GW freaks to sustain business. You see something wrong with that?"

Yes, I see they've bought you, and you've been taking in totally. You'll do as you're told.

Yes, there is data that has proven to be wrong. Some scientists will do things badly. But this doesn't mean the good data is any less good.

Your argument here is that there are a few bad apples, so all apples must be bad. That's bad logic Ray. I can imagine Koch brothers' paid workers sitting down and figuring out how to make people like you accept their way of thinking, and they're quite good at it.

They present things in a manner which makes you lose all sense of logic, in order to follow the religion of partisan politics and they KNOW you'll follow.

What do I do?

I don't own a car Ray, never have. I only use public transport. I walk to work. I use the heating only when necessary, it's cold now and I don't have any heating on.

However you've complete ignored all the stuff I said. The only way to reduce things is if the world is on board. The US has lost a lot of dirty industry to China. China will probably get fed up of a polluted world and send their dirty stuff elsewhere. Moving it around doesn't change things.

So, you're basically more interested in money than in actually having a planet that is livable?

I see. So you don't have solar panels and you don't own a windmill. Never owned a car? WTF do you live?

As for the Koch article, the NYT got their information from Sanders during his campaign speeches and it's proven to be false. The Koch's themselves only contributed a fraction of that 889 million and the rest of the money were given by others. Koch only arranged to get the people together to raise that kind of dough. And no, it didn't all go to candidates or the Republican party:

Bernie Sanders’s inaccurate claim that the two Koch brothers will spend more than either major party on 2016 elections

Solar panels would be impossible, I'm not going to explain the circumstances, but I have moved around a lot.

As for the Koch brother's money, there are some telling things even in this article.

"About two-thirds of the $889 million “will help support research and education programs, scholarships and other efforts designed to change policies and promote a culture of freedom in the United States,”"

Do you know what this is? This is the Koch brothers not spending the money on politicians, but on articles, on "research" on basically getting their message across through many different means. These means are far more likely to end up coming out of your mouth and those of other partisan hacks on forums like this.

They're essentially spending money, and have done for a long time, on trying to change America. "a culture of freedom", bullshit is it a culture of freedom. It's a culture of the rich getting richer.

They're the sort of people who talk about freedom and then promote the FPTP (do you remember what that is?) system because it suits them. They'll tell you FPTP is freedom. They'll tell you that FPTP protects smaller states, it doesn't, they'll tell you that FPTP is what the Founding Fathers wanted, it isn't, they'll tell you lots and lots and lots of bullshit and you'll lap it up, because it's what they've told you that you want to hear. They'll dress it all up in a way which makes you think it's the right way, but only if you don't do too much thinking and almost no research into it.

"According to 2015 campaign finance records, Charles Koch donated $2,700 this year to support Republican Jerry Moran in the Kansas Senate race."

Here's the problem. The actual spending that people can actually see is very little. But we know they spend a hell of a lot more than this.

The problem is we don't know how much they actually spend, it's all a big secret. Why? Because they know it'll make you think something differently.

They dress everything up. They've made this group for spending money, they don't say how much money the group gets from each donor, they say they only put in a fraction of this, but then they know no one is actually going to find out, so they can lie their asses off.

He said

"He said: “As I said, very small portion of that $250 [million] comes from the so-called Koch brothers, and even less from me than from my brother, because everybody can choose what they want to give to. So it isn’t the Koch brothers doing it. It’s other people doing it.”"

The so-called Koch brothers?? What does that mean?

He's taken a figure of $750 million. Chopped it down to $250 million because he's passing off the other $500 million as nothing because it's not directly going to politicians, and then he's saying "very small portion", which is meaningless. It's not a figure, it's an emotive sentence that can mean ANYTHING.

I'm calling bullshit on this one.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Now you know they got all the bases covered don't you ? You see that's the glory of their theory, where as it works when it's cold or hot.

When you've got all the bases covered, that's the sign of a good theory. Maybe the denialists need to invest in a basic scientific education, instead of just peeking out the door and giving us a weather report.

its mot science to say

good wather = global warming
bad weather = global warming
any change in weather = global.warming



that was pretty easy

 

[Rexx Taylor]

i wonder where John Kerry is riding his little bicycle today? the south pole? and what if he gets stuck in the ice? will he call 911?

 

[skookerasbil]

So where is John Kerry this week? Riding his Wal-Mart bicycle in three feet of snow somewhere in the Northeast?
Oh, and didnt some/or someone on the far left want to put anyone who didnt believe the world was warming in jail?
So where are they now? Probably not in the rust belt/trip-state/New England.
Well, 2018 looks like the year the world will be laughing at Liberals,,,BIG TIME !!!
Even the polar bears have already started making new Al Gore Jokes in the north pole.

the Northeast region is not the planet. It's not "regional warming". It's global warming.
where were your global warming-related thread after the heatwaves and hurricanes?
thread fail.

actually...........its perception fAiL by those who support the religion. Clearly the people see that when the religion pushes warm temps as "climate change" and cold temps as "weather", the public tunes out. The evidence is everywhere.........bad news if you are a climate k00k.

Some facts that display nobody is caring about global warming in 2017 because they are freezing their nut sacks off 7-8 months out of the year............

• No interest in global warming movies in 2017
• No congressional legislation on climate change for over 10 years now.
• Paris Treaty............dead
• EPA........being gutted as we speak
• After 25 years, solar and wind combine to provide the US about 5% of our electricity....laughable
• Still zero discussion on climate change in the presidential debates
• In the last 3 midterm elections, green candidates have gotten their clocks cleaned despite spending tens of millions.
• Sea levels falling
• No significant rise in global temperatures since 1997
• Polls on "voter concerns" from Gallup, Pew and Rasmussen have "climate change" at the bottom of the list.

Like the temperature since 2006, interest in climate change has shown a steady decline.......people don't like feeling stoopid and patronized.


But I will say this...........never thought in a million years Id come to love Al Gore being around so much. Every time he opens his mouth, a new generation of climate skeptics is born. Who cant love that if you're not a climate k00k?

 

[skookerasbil]

Who's not winning?

 

[Foxfyre]

I know scientists get their money from different places. The problem here is that scientists are coming up with stuff that is accepted by about 95% or more of scientists. No one person is controlling all this money.

Busting the 97% Myth | Climategate Book

Do politicians want to control people? Maybe, maybe not. The rich certainly want some of this control. Now, do they get their control by talking about global warming? If this were the case, then you'd be supporting global warming. Instead they've sent out a "global warming is a hoax" thing.
The US govt is far more controlled by big oil companies and other companies who have an interest in ignoring environmental issues.

The more they can BS people about GW, the more they will be permitted to control our energy. Take DumBama for instance, he closed down the Gulf after the oil spill, he closed down power plants that he deemed environmentally unfit to be allowed in this country, he even used taxpayer money for Cash for Clunkers which was a total flop.

Yes, they do use the GW hoax to gain more control over the people.

The Koch brothers are the ones spending the most money on politics. They're oil people. Come on. You don't think they're spending a lot of money trying to make global warming look like a hoax?

No, the Koch brothers do not spend the most money in politics. Yes, they are combatting the GW freaks to sustain business. You see something wrong with that?

Well, we have plenty of data that shows man has a lot to do about it.

And plenty of data that has been proved fudged. These scientists get their paycheck though politicians and they are going to say whatever it is that makes their bosses happy.

What should we do? Suicide? Oh, come off it Ray with the simplistic nonsense.

How about investing in more renewable energy? How about increasing public transportation? How about recycling things we use? How about a lot of the things we know will actually make a difference but, for the umpteenth time, seem to have passed you by.

Do you have a windmill in your backyard? How about solar panels on the roof of your home and garage? Do you use public transportation whenever possible? And when you can't, use your all electric car that you keep plugged in in the garage?

And even if every American lived like this, would that stop the GW people from ever complaining again? Do you think they would go away?

Make a difference? Okay, fair enough. What is the goal that would shut environmentalists up forever and what will it cost us? I want to know, because so far, not one of your kind has ever been able to answer my question.

It's your rule of law? What the fuck are you talking about Ray? You're making shit up and then making some fancy title for it so you can ignore reality? Fuck me.

We have spent trillions of dollars and lost even more in companies moving away just to escape some of our global antics, and thus far, I haven't seen one happy environmentalist yet. Do you know of any, and if so, who are these people?

Okay, I see you have the ability to post the web address of a dodgy websites. So...?

You're using insults again Ray. Are you some kind of child or an adult?

Obama (his name is Obama for fuck's sake) closed down the gulf after a major oil disaster which polluted the ocean and killed people.

How does this gain more control over the people exactly? Oh, you couldn't go off into the gulf and start drilling for oil. Could you just start doing this under Bush or any other president?

The Koch brothers don't spend the most money in politics? Really? Then who does?

Koch Brothers’ Budget of $889 Million for 2016 Is on Par With Both Parties’ Spending

"
Koch Brothers’ Budget of $889 Million for 2016 Is on Par With Both Parties’ Spending"

Do you know of any other person who spends around $889 million in a year on politics?

"Yes, they are combatting the GW freaks to sustain business. You see something wrong with that?"

Yes, I see they've bought you, and you've been taking in totally. You'll do as you're told.

Yes, there is data that has proven to be wrong. Some scientists will do things badly. But this doesn't mean the good data is any less good.

Your argument here is that there are a few bad apples, so all apples must be bad. That's bad logic Ray. I can imagine Koch brothers' paid workers sitting down and figuring out how to make people like you accept their way of thinking, and they're quite good at it.

They present things in a manner which makes you lose all sense of logic, in order to follow the religion of partisan politics and they KNOW you'll follow.

What do I do?

I don't own a car Ray, never have. I only use public transport. I walk to work. I use the heating only when necessary, it's cold now and I don't have any heating on.

However you've complete ignored all the stuff I said. The only way to reduce things is if the world is on board. The US has lost a lot of dirty industry to China. China will probably get fed up of a polluted world and send their dirty stuff elsewhere. Moving it around doesn't change things.

So, you're basically more interested in money than in actually having a planet that is livable?

And you are citing fake news. WAPO and the New York Times and numerous others all bought into a Bernie Sanders claim that the Koch Brothers would outspend both political parties which was utter nonsense. Not only was that budget considerably smaller than what both political parties spent in 2016, only about 1/3rd of it went federal, state, and local elections and the Koch Brothers themselves contributed only a small portion of that. I believe they gave nothing to President Trump and they actively campaigned and spoke against him in the primaries.
Sanders says Koch brothers are outspending either political party in 2016 elections

Donald Trump won’t be getting money from the billionaire Koch brothers

Ultimately President Trump was outspent by the Clinton campaign by at least 2 to 1 and he received nothing from the Koch Brothers who opposed his candidacy.
What Trump and Clinton spent per electoral vote

Now if your sources get their facts so really REALLY wrong re the Koch Brothers, how reliable are they to be accurate in what they report about climate change? Not much.

Actually the Koch Bros. have been pretty equal opportunity contributors in the climate change debate.
https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/w...thers-changed-their-mind-about-climate-change

Sometimes it helps to actually do one's own research and read something other than the assigned and/or parroted talking points. Probably none of us have the access or means to do our own climate research so for what we know, we are dependent on others to tell us. And if we actually want the truth instead of just reinforcing our own beliefs/prejudices, it really helps to look for both sides of any story.

Given the huge amount of money involved, and the fact that only pro-global warming scientists are getting the huge lion's share of it, that is especially true when it comes to truth re climate change.

 

[Foxfyre]

So where is John Kerry this week? Riding his Wal-Mart bicycle in three feet of snow somewhere in the Northeast?
Oh, and didnt some/or someone on the far left want to put anyone who didnt believe the world was warming in jail?
So where are they now? Probably not in the rust belt/trip-state/New England.
Well, 2018 looks like the year the world will be laughing at Liberals,,,BIG TIME !!!
Even the polar bears have already started making new Al Gore Jokes in the north pole.

the Northeast region is not the planet. It's not "regional warming". It's global warming.
where were your global warming-related thread after the heatwaves and hurricanes?
thread fail.

actually...........its perception fAiL by those who support the religion. Clearly the people see that when the religion pushes warm temps as "climate change" and cold temps as "weather", the public tunes out. The evidence is everywhere.........bad news if you are a climate k00k.

Some facts that display nobody is caring about global warming in 2017 because they are freezing their nut sacks off 7-8 months out of the year............

• No interest in global warming movies in 2017
• No congressional legislation on climate change for over 10 years now.
• Paris Treaty............dead
• EPA........being gutted as we speak
• After 25 years, solar and wind combine to provide the US about 5% of our electricity....laughable
• Still zero discussion on climate change in the presidential debates
• In the last 3 midterm elections, green candidates have gotten their clocks cleaned despite spending tens of millions.
• Sea levels falling
• No significant rise in global temperatures since 1997
• Polls on "voter concerns" from Gallup, Pew and Rasmussen have "climate change" at the bottom of the list.

Like the temperature since 2006, interest in climate change has shown a steady decline.......people don't like feeling stoopid and patronized.


But I will say this...........never thought in a million years Id come to love Al Gore being around so much. Every time he opens his mouth, a new generation of climate skeptics is born. Who cant love that if you're not a climate k00k?

I hadn't thought about that until your post, but Al Gore and others of his ilk really are the gift that keeps on giving aren't they?

Without that kind of handy reference to use, those of us who want real science re climate change instead of politically motivated dogma they call science, would have a lot tougher time getting the message out that it isn't a done deal yet and the jury is still out on climate change so far as what government policy should be. Having a visible conversation at least provides our individual liberties and self determination some protection from those who want to take more of that away. When there is no national conversation, it is too easy to forget there is an issue there and stop paying attention. And that allows those who would do wrong to do so without detection.

 

[Rexx Taylor]

Until new nnork is under water....there is no global warming

 

[Foxfyre]

Until new nnork is under water....there is no global warming

Pick a city with shorter buildings for that benchmark re global warming policy please.

But it's so silly. Science has only been seriously recording ocean sea levels since 1993--that's a scant 24 years or about the same amount of time that global warming has become a major political issue. Twenty four years is about 1 millionth of an eyelash blink in paleontological climate science. Yet they are setting 1993 as the average when calculating sea rise? And they have to admit that the rise they calculate isn't constant all over the world?
Is sea level rising?

But when you get into the scientific community outside the politically correct realm of the NOAA, IPCC, etc. you get much more comprehensive information. So come on. Let's see the real arguments for that and not just the politically correct IPCC talking point.

So instead of citing that NOAA article as the only information we need to confirm that anthropological global warming is a serious problem, it is wise to objectively look at the counter arguments. These do not in any way suggest that ocean levels aren't rising long term. They are and will continue to do so for several thousand more years or until the next ice age, whichever comes first. And that would happen regardless of any human activity, if there had never been any human activity, and/or if humans were suddenly zapped off the face of the Earth and put somewhere else.
Alarmists Are In Way Over Their Heads On Rising Ocean Claims

So how about we objectively consider that the climate alarmists are not living their lives as if AGW is a problem. And all this business about fining carbon emission abusers or dealing with that re carbon trading among industries doesn't suggest alarm to me--it just looks like a handy way to take money from taxpayers and curry favor with others. Allowing the worst polluters to escape the regulations doesn't suggest alarm to me. And when each mini doomsday prediction comes and goes without any perceptible harm so they just set the goal posts further and further out and keep hollering 'wolf' doesn't suggest alarm to me.

It does suggest protecting one's own lucrative turf and excuse for government to ratchet more and more control over the people by taking about their liberties, options, resources, choices, and opportunities. And that I just don't think they have justified.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

"About two-thirds of the $889 million “will help support research and education programs, scholarships and other efforts designed to change policies and promote a culture of freedom in the United States,”"

Do you know what this is? This is the Koch brothers not spending the money on politicians, but on articles, on "research" on basically getting their message across through many different means. These means are far more likely to end up coming out of your mouth and those of other partisan hacks on forums like this.

Hey, at least they are honest about where the money goes. Not so in our public schools and other indoctrination sectors across the land such as colleges and Hollywood.

You on the left just can't stand it when people challenge your world views. The left has been brainwashing people since the time they started to learn their A,B,C's. The defectors are called "partisan hacks" in your own words, and nobody should ever question the validity or honesty of leftist claims.

Here's the problem. The actual spending that people can actually see is very little. But we know they spend a hell of a lot more than this.

The problem is we don't know how much they actually spend, it's all a big secret. Why? Because they know it'll make you think something differently.

Ohhhhh, so now it's questionable how the money is collected and where it is spent, but not so when you came out with the claim Koch gave 889 million dollars.

I'm calling bullshit on this one.

You call bullshit on anything you don't agree with.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I know scientists get their money from different places. The problem here is that scientists are coming up with stuff that is accepted by about 95% or more of scientists. No one person is controlling all this money.

Busting the 97% Myth | Climategate Book

Do politicians want to control people? Maybe, maybe not. The rich certainly want some of this control. Now, do they get their control by talking about global warming? If this were the case, then you'd be supporting global warming. Instead they've sent out a "global warming is a hoax" thing.
The US govt is far more controlled by big oil companies and other companies who have an interest in ignoring environmental issues.

The more they can BS people about GW, the more they will be permitted to control our energy. Take DumBama for instance, he closed down the Gulf after the oil spill, he closed down power plants that he deemed environmentally unfit to be allowed in this country, he even used taxpayer money for Cash for Clunkers which was a total flop.

Yes, they do use the GW hoax to gain more control over the people.

The Koch brothers are the ones spending the most money on politics. They're oil people. Come on. You don't think they're spending a lot of money trying to make global warming look like a hoax?

No, the Koch brothers do not spend the most money in politics. Yes, they are combatting the GW freaks to sustain business. You see something wrong with that?

Well, we have plenty of data that shows man has a lot to do about it.

And plenty of data that has been proved fudged. These scientists get their paycheck though politicians and they are going to say whatever it is that makes their bosses happy.

What should we do? Suicide? Oh, come off it Ray with the simplistic nonsense.

How about investing in more renewable energy? How about increasing public transportation? How about recycling things we use? How about a lot of the things we know will actually make a difference but, for the umpteenth time, seem to have passed you by.

Do you have a windmill in your backyard? How about solar panels on the roof of your home and garage? Do you use public transportation whenever possible? And when you can't, use your all electric car that you keep plugged in in the garage?

And even if every American lived like this, would that stop the GW people from ever complaining again? Do you think they would go away?

Make a difference? Okay, fair enough. What is the goal that would shut environmentalists up forever and what will it cost us? I want to know, because so far, not one of your kind has ever been able to answer my question.

It's your rule of law? What the fuck are you talking about Ray? You're making shit up and then making some fancy title for it so you can ignore reality? Fuck me.

We have spent trillions of dollars and lost even more in companies moving away just to escape some of our global antics, and thus far, I haven't seen one happy environmentalist yet. Do you know of any, and if so, who are these people?

Okay, I see you have the ability to post the web address of a dodgy websites. So...?

You're using insults again Ray. Are you some kind of child or an adult?

Obama (his name is Obama for fuck's sake) closed down the gulf after a major oil disaster which polluted the ocean and killed people.

How does this gain more control over the people exactly? Oh, you couldn't go off into the gulf and start drilling for oil. Could you just start doing this under Bush or any other president?

The Koch brothers don't spend the most money in politics? Really? Then who does?

Koch Brothers’ Budget of $889 Million for 2016 Is on Par With Both Parties’ Spending

"
Koch Brothers’ Budget of $889 Million for 2016 Is on Par With Both Parties’ Spending"

Do you know of any other person who spends around $889 million in a year on politics?

"Yes, they are combatting the GW freaks to sustain business. You see something wrong with that?"

Yes, I see they've bought you, and you've been taking in totally. You'll do as you're told.

Yes, there is data that has proven to be wrong. Some scientists will do things badly. But this doesn't mean the good data is any less good.

Your argument here is that there are a few bad apples, so all apples must be bad. That's bad logic Ray. I can imagine Koch brothers' paid workers sitting down and figuring out how to make people like you accept their way of thinking, and they're quite good at it.

They present things in a manner which makes you lose all sense of logic, in order to follow the religion of partisan politics and they KNOW you'll follow.

What do I do?

I don't own a car Ray, never have. I only use public transport. I walk to work. I use the heating only when necessary, it's cold now and I don't have any heating on.

However you've complete ignored all the stuff I said. The only way to reduce things is if the world is on board. The US has lost a lot of dirty industry to China. China will probably get fed up of a polluted world and send their dirty stuff elsewhere. Moving it around doesn't change things.

So, you're basically more interested in money than in actually having a planet that is livable?

And you are citing fake news. WAPO and the New York Times and numerous others all bought into a Bernie Sanders claim that the Koch Brothers would outspend both political parties which was utter nonsense. Not only was that budget considerably smaller than what both political parties spent in 2016, only about 1/3rd of it went federal, state, and local elections and the Koch Brothers themselves contributed only a small portion of that. I believe they gave nothing to President Trump and they actively campaigned and spoke against him in the primaries.
Sanders says Koch brothers are outspending either political party in 2016 elections

Donald Trump won’t be getting money from the billionaire Koch brothers

Ultimately President Trump was outspent by the Clinton campaign by at least 2 to 1 and he received nothing from the Koch Brothers who opposed his candidacy.
What Trump and Clinton spent per electoral vote

Now if your sources get their facts so really REALLY wrong re the Koch Brothers, how reliable are they to be accurate in what they report about climate change? Not much.

Actually the Koch Bros. have been pretty equal opportunity contributors in the climate change debate.
https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/w...thers-changed-their-mind-about-climate-change

Sometimes it helps to actually do one's own research and read something other than the assigned and/or parroted talking points. Probably none of us have the access or means to do our own climate research so for what we know, we are dependent on others to tell us. And if we actually want the truth instead of just reinforcing our own beliefs/prejudices, it really helps to look for both sides of any story.

Given the huge amount of money involved, and the fact that only pro-global warming scientists are getting the huge lion's share of it, that is especially true when it comes to truth re climate change.

I didn't claim that they outspent the two political parties. I claimed they spent a lot of money on politics. My claim was they spent more than any other individual on politics. That claim still holds.

We don't know how much they spend. That's the biggest problem here. You go onto opensecrets and it'll probably show they spent like $2,000 or something ridiculous like that.

What is a small portion? 5%? 95%? We have no idea, just vague words from someone I wouldn't trust with a stick.

I didn't say Trump received from the Koch brothers. The Koch brothers have decided to go for a more direct route at the voters, rather than spending on the politicians. They have tried to change how people think, rather than getting their own politicians in power.

And how the fuck do you get climate change in here. Jeesuz foowkin' krist.

There's a massive difference between SCIENCE and trying to figure out where people are sending their money, if you haven't noticed.

 

[Foxfyre]

I know scientists get their money from different places. The problem here is that scientists are coming up with stuff that is accepted by about 95% or more of scientists. No one person is controlling all this money.

Busting the 97% Myth | Climategate Book

Do politicians want to control people? Maybe, maybe not. The rich certainly want some of this control. Now, do they get their control by talking about global warming? If this were the case, then you'd be supporting global warming. Instead they've sent out a "global warming is a hoax" thing.
The US govt is far more controlled by big oil companies and other companies who have an interest in ignoring environmental issues.

The more they can BS people about GW, the more they will be permitted to control our energy. Take DumBama for instance, he closed down the Gulf after the oil spill, he closed down power plants that he deemed environmentally unfit to be allowed in this country, he even used taxpayer money for Cash for Clunkers which was a total flop.

Yes, they do use the GW hoax to gain more control over the people.

The Koch brothers are the ones spending the most money on politics. They're oil people. Come on. You don't think they're spending a lot of money trying to make global warming look like a hoax?

No, the Koch brothers do not spend the most money in politics. Yes, they are combatting the GW freaks to sustain business. You see something wrong with that?

Well, we have plenty of data that shows man has a lot to do about it.

And plenty of data that has been proved fudged. These scientists get their paycheck though politicians and they are going to say whatever it is that makes their bosses happy.

What should we do? Suicide? Oh, come off it Ray with the simplistic nonsense.

How about investing in more renewable energy? How about increasing public transportation? How about recycling things we use? How about a lot of the things we know will actually make a difference but, for the umpteenth time, seem to have passed you by.

Do you have a windmill in your backyard? How about solar panels on the roof of your home and garage? Do you use public transportation whenever possible? And when you can't, use your all electric car that you keep plugged in in the garage?

And even if every American lived like this, would that stop the GW people from ever complaining again? Do you think they would go away?

Make a difference? Okay, fair enough. What is the goal that would shut environmentalists up forever and what will it cost us? I want to know, because so far, not one of your kind has ever been able to answer my question.

It's your rule of law? What the fuck are you talking about Ray? You're making shit up and then making some fancy title for it so you can ignore reality? Fuck me.

We have spent trillions of dollars and lost even more in companies moving away just to escape some of our global antics, and thus far, I haven't seen one happy environmentalist yet. Do you know of any, and if so, who are these people?

Okay, I see you have the ability to post the web address of a dodgy websites. So...?

You're using insults again Ray. Are you some kind of child or an adult?

Obama (his name is Obama for fuck's sake) closed down the gulf after a major oil disaster which polluted the ocean and killed people.

How does this gain more control over the people exactly? Oh, you couldn't go off into the gulf and start drilling for oil. Could you just start doing this under Bush or any other president?

The Koch brothers don't spend the most money in politics? Really? Then who does?

Koch Brothers’ Budget of $889 Million for 2016 Is on Par With Both Parties’ Spending

"
Koch Brothers’ Budget of $889 Million for 2016 Is on Par With Both Parties’ Spending"

Do you know of any other person who spends around $889 million in a year on politics?

"Yes, they are combatting the GW freaks to sustain business. You see something wrong with that?"

Yes, I see they've bought you, and you've been taking in totally. You'll do as you're told.

Yes, there is data that has proven to be wrong. Some scientists will do things badly. But this doesn't mean the good data is any less good.

Your argument here is that there are a few bad apples, so all apples must be bad. That's bad logic Ray. I can imagine Koch brothers' paid workers sitting down and figuring out how to make people like you accept their way of thinking, and they're quite good at it.

They present things in a manner which makes you lose all sense of logic, in order to follow the religion of partisan politics and they KNOW you'll follow.

What do I do?

I don't own a car Ray, never have. I only use public transport. I walk to work. I use the heating only when necessary, it's cold now and I don't have any heating on.

However you've complete ignored all the stuff I said. The only way to reduce things is if the world is on board. The US has lost a lot of dirty industry to China. China will probably get fed up of a polluted world and send their dirty stuff elsewhere. Moving it around doesn't change things.

So, you're basically more interested in money than in actually having a planet that is livable?

And you are citing fake news. WAPO and the New York Times and numerous others all bought into a Bernie Sanders claim that the Koch Brothers would outspend both political parties which was utter nonsense. Not only was that budget considerably smaller than what both political parties spent in 2016, only about 1/3rd of it went federal, state, and local elections and the Koch Brothers themselves contributed only a small portion of that. I believe they gave nothing to President Trump and they actively campaigned and spoke against him in the primaries.
Sanders says Koch brothers are outspending either political party in 2016 elections

Donald Trump won’t be getting money from the billionaire Koch brothers

Ultimately President Trump was outspent by the Clinton campaign by at least 2 to 1 and he received nothing from the Koch Brothers who opposed his candidacy.
What Trump and Clinton spent per electoral vote

Now if your sources get their facts so really REALLY wrong re the Koch Brothers, how reliable are they to be accurate in what they report about climate change? Not much.

Actually the Koch Bros. have been pretty equal opportunity contributors in the climate change debate.
https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/w...thers-changed-their-mind-about-climate-change

Sometimes it helps to actually do one's own research and read something other than the assigned and/or parroted talking points. Probably none of us have the access or means to do our own climate research so for what we know, we are dependent on others to tell us. And if we actually want the truth instead of just reinforcing our own beliefs/prejudices, it really helps to look for both sides of any story.

Given the huge amount of money involved, and the fact that only pro-global warming scientists are getting the huge lion's share of it, that is especially true when it comes to truth re climate change.

I didn't claim that they outspent the two political parties. I claimed they spent a lot of money on politics. My claim was they spent more than any other individual on politics. That claim still holds.

We don't know how much they spend. That's the biggest problem here. You go onto opensecrets and it'll probably show they spent like $2,000 or something ridiculous like that.

What is a small portion? 5%? 95%? We have no idea, just vague words from someone I wouldn't trust with a stick.

I didn't say Trump received from the Koch brothers. The Koch brothers have decided to go for a more direct route at the voters, rather than spending on the politicians. They have tried to change how people think, rather than getting their own politicians in power.

And how the fuck do you get climate change in here. Jeesuz foowkin' krist.

There's a massive difference between SCIENCE and trying to figure out where people are sending their money, if you haven't noticed.

The thread is about global warming so excuse me, If I try to relate to the topic at least in some way.

I provided links to support my opinion. Dispute them if you can.

Your unsupported opinion is noted.

 

[frigidweirdo]

"About two-thirds of the $889 million “will help support research and education programs, scholarships and other efforts designed to change policies and promote a culture of freedom in the United States,”"

Do you know what this is? This is the Koch brothers not spending the money on politicians, but on articles, on "research" on basically getting their message across through many different means. These means are far more likely to end up coming out of your mouth and those of other partisan hacks on forums like this.

Hey, at least they are honest about where the money goes. Not so in our public schools and other indoctrination sectors across the land such as colleges and Hollywood.

You on the left just can't stand it when people challenge your world views. The left has been brainwashing people since the time they started to learn their A,B,C's. The defectors are called "partisan hacks" in your own words, and nobody should ever question the validity or honesty of leftist claims.

Here's the problem. The actual spending that people can actually see is very little. But we know they spend a hell of a lot more than this.

The problem is we don't know how much they actually spend, it's all a big secret. Why? Because they know it'll make you think something differently.

Ohhhhh, so now it's questionable how the money is collected and where it is spent, but not so when you came out with the claim Koch gave 889 million dollars.

I'm calling bullshit on this one.

You call bullshit on anything you don't agree with.

Yeah, they're so honest that they don't tell people what money they're spending or where it's going. That's honest?

"You on the left", what, all the people on the left? Oh, come off it.

I can actually stand it when people challenge my views. In fact I welcome it Ray, this is why I come on forums like this, to actually talk about things and to see if my views are right, if they're wrong.

Ray, to have someone like you, someone who is as partisan as they get, with your head stuck so far into the sand, who hardly ever does research on what they're saying, who hardly ever thinks logically on it, who takes the line given to you, to tell me that I don't like people challenging their views.

Ray, I will back up what I have as much as possible.

You're the one who talks complete crap and then disappears whenever someone calls you out of it, to then reappear with the same argument a few weeks or months later.

The evidence is there Ray. Remember the FPTP and PR debate? You said in a different topic that "Choice is freedom" but then when it came to discussing PR you didn't want to choose freedom. In fact you said you didn't know what PR or FPTP were, you couldn't be bothered to even do a simple search for what they are to understand what was being spoken about. I explained to you what they were. Then two months later (or three) we discussed the same thing again, and again you didn't know what FPTP or PR were. Then I called you out on the fact that I'd told you before and you stopped replying.

Or how about the time when you admitted you didn't read most of what I wrote? That was fun. Knowing you actually make an argument and the other guy doesn't give a shit. He reads the first two lines and then replies only to that.

You don't debate properly Ray. You don't look to find the truth either. You're attempting to convert people to your way of thinking.

I am looking for the truth. I back my stuff up where I can.