Religion's Fakes and Phonies.

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Gold Supporting Member
Oct 6, 2008
124,904
60,285
2,300
Brooklyn, NY
As the old saying goes, 'Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.'



Upon opening the latest Columbia mag, I found his interesting letter to the editor....

A letter to the editors in the Fall 2014 Columbia University magazine:

"Luanne Zurlo’s letter to the editor (Summer 2014) could not have been better timed, as yesterday I finished reading "Absolute Monarchs," a very well-written history of the entire papacy by the well-respected historian John Julius Norwich.

Lord Norwich writes with specificity on the way Pope Pius XII remained silent time after time when a vigorous word would have made a significant difference in the plight of the Jews under Hitler.

He quotes the pope as referring to Judaism as a cult, and gives repeated evidence of the pope’s anti-Semitism. He also notes that the pope considered communism to be a greater threat to the papacy and himself personally than Nazi Germany was to the world, so he declined to raise a finger against the deportation of Roman Jews, lest in doing so it somehow might encourage a communist takeover of Rome.

Norwich notes that for the entire period after the war, “not one word of apology or regret, not a single requiem or Mass of Remembrance was held for the 1,989 Jewish deportees from Rome who had met their deaths at Auschwitz alone.”

Later, in describing the twilight of the pope’s life, he notes, “The old anti-Semitism was still in evidence: to his dying day he was to refuse recognition to the State of Israel.”
Andrew Alpern ’64GSAPP

New York, NY
Letters Fall 2014 Columbia Magazine




Wow.

Looks like "Absolute Monarchs" should go on a future reading list.
 
Luanne Zurlo @LuanneZurlo From Wall Street to Latin American education to academia animated by my Catholic faith (and opera, Rome aficionado) Transparency requires us to know that Zurlo is a Catholic homer for her particular faction of Catholicism.

Pius XII, for me, is a poor choice of poster boy for Catholic sainthood.
 
Um, yeah. Okay.

Actually, it was kind of disgraceful the way Pius XII got in bed with the Nazis. And the world gave him a pass for it. The church wants to canonize him today.

Probbaly just a political decision. If they didn't people would wonder why and investigate his life, find the anti-semitism, and that'd be embarassing. If they canonize him it's just another 'well that makes sense' sorta thing.
 
And some more fuel to this fire.....

2. "Alois Hudal(also known as Luigi Hudal; 31 May 1885 – 13 May 1963) was an Austrian titular bishop, based in Rome. For thirty years, he was the head of the Austrian-German congregation of Santa Maria dell'Anima in Rome and, until 1937, an influential representative of the Austrian Church.

In his 1937 book, "The Foundations of National Socialism," Hudal praised Adolf Hitler and his policies and indirectly attacked Vatican policies.

After World War II, Hudal helped establish the ratlines, which allowed prominent Nazi German and other European former Axis officers and political leaders, among them accused war criminals, to escape Allied trials and denazification." Alois Hudal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia




3. "Hudal used this position to aid the escape of wanted Nazi war criminals, including Franz Stangl, commanding officer of Treblinka, Gustav Wagner, commanding officer of Sobibor, Alois Brunner, responsible for the Drancy internment camp near Paris and in charge of deportations in Slovakia to German concentration camps, and Adolf Eichmann[10]— a fact about which he was later unashamedly open. Some of these wanted men were being held in internment camps: generally without identity papers, they would be enrolled in camp registers under false names. Other Nazis were in hiding in Italy, and sought Hudal out as his role in assisting escapes became known on the Nazi grapevine." Ratlines World War II aftermath - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
 
The Catholic Church's link with right-wing extremism doesn't look great today; although I doubt they looked a lot better at the time.

Many of the principles of fascism did naturally appear to what has always been a reactionary church, and at that level perhaps the mutual affection was understandable.

Certainly I think it is interesting to view Hitler with 1939's glasses - seeing the appeal to what we might now call 'family values', in fact. Hitler was all about loyalty, honor, duty and fidelity - no surprising the chuch preferred that to Stalin's godless hordes.

This is a key point actually - from the point of the view of the church perhaps the options seems to be life with Hitler's perverted right-wing extremism or Stalin's atheism.
 
And, for balance, here's the real deal:


4. August 9, 1920 Sister Rose Thering born in Plains, Wis. She spent her life as an activist nun fostering better relations between Jews and Christians.

Her doctoral thesis, completed in 1961, is widely credited with influencing the Vatican to stop blaming the Jews for killing Jesus. The official pronouncement came in the Vatican II document Nostra Aetate (“Our Time”), issued in (October 28)1965, which overturned hundreds of years of Catholic anti-Semitism.
See the film “Sister Rose’s Passion,” which won the 2004 Oscar for shot subject.
Sister Rose died May 7, 2006, of kidney failure.


a. . " ....reversed church policy and declared of Christ's death that "what happened in his passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today," and, as for teaching, added: "The Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God." http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/08/nyregion/08thering.html?_r=0
 
5. " Nostra Aetate (Latin:In our Time) is the Declaration on the Relation of the Church with Non-Christian Religions of the Second Vatican Council. Passed by a vote of 2,221 to 88 of the assembledbishops, this declaration was promulgated on October 28, 1965, by Pope Paul VI...


. It mentions some of the answers that some Hindus, Buddhists, and members of other faiths have suggested...

.... goes on to say that the Catholic Church regards the Muslims with esteem, and then continues by describing some of the things Islam has in common with Christianity and Catholicism: worship of One God, the Creator of Heaven and Earth, Merciful and Omnipotent, ...

.... the bond that ties the people of the 'New Covenant' (Christians) to Abraham's stock (Jews). It states that even though some Jewish authorities and those who followed them called forJesus' death, the blame for this cannot be laid at the door of all those Jews present at that time, nor can the Jews in our time be held as guilty, thus repudiating an indiscriminate charge of Jewish deicide; 'the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God'. The Declaration also decries all displays of antisemitism made at any time by anyone."
Nostra Aetate - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
 
6. While some in the Roman Catholic branch of Christianity subscribed to Nazi doctrine, on our side of the Atlantic, Paul Kangor, in "Dupes: How America's Adversaries Have Manipulated Progressives for a Century," speaks of the Mainline Protestant groups that embraced other totalitarian doctrines.

" At the behest of the Commintern, as the archives reveals, the American Peace Mobilization committee was formed in April of ’41. It’s function was to support the Soviet line, bring progressives aboard, protest against the lend-lease program to aid Britain…they paraded in front of the White House, chanting “FDR is a fascist, …he’s starting a war!’

They managed to dupe the easiest group to dupe: progressive pastors. The NYTimes article at the time said “Clergyman Group Opposes War Aid!’"




7. Many Protestant groups' rejection of traditional beliefs and embrace of the Gospel of “social justice” resulted in their loss of membership. Another coincidence: the shift to the left started right around the time the Progressive era was getting into full swing.

a. "In 1907, a group of Methodists formed the Methodist Federation for Social Service (MFSS). The aim was to influence other Protestant groups. The next day, the group is received by President Theodore Roosevelt in the White House. One of the leaders, Harry F. Ward drafts a Social Creed that will be adopted by the 1908 General Conference and by the Federal Council of the Churches of Christ in America."
MFSA History Timeline


b. In the early Twenties the Communist Party made considerable gains in its program to infiltrate the churches. This effort was led by such prominent "American" clergymen as Harry F. Ward ("one of the leading collaborators of, and apologists for, the Soviet Union."...), Jerome Davis, William B. Spofford, and Albert Rhys Williams.

At the 1942 convention of the Federal Council of Churches called for: Ultimately,"a world government of delegated powers." Complete abandonment of U.S. isolationism. Strong immediate limitations on national sovereignty. International control of all armies and navies. A universal system of money.... Worldwide freedom of immigration. Progressive elimination of all tariff and quota restrictions on world trade .... A "democratically controlled" international bank ....
APOSTASY -- The National Council Of Churches





Nazism, communism, socialism......Leftism of every stripe was well represented among sizable segments of every religion.

Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.
 
So PC is engaging in Catholic Bashing. That's nice.

Their belief in Magic Sky men isn't any less less than yours.




You should learn to read more carefully.

I can see the reason for the elisions in your educational background.
 
So PC is engaging in Catholic Bashing. That's nice.

Their belief in Magic Sky men isn't any less less than yours.

You should learn to read more carefully.

I can see the reason for the elisions in your educational background.

No, you need to learn how to write something that doesn't sound like it was written by someone who just went on a bombing spree.
 
So PC is engaging in Catholic Bashing. That's nice.

Their belief in Magic Sky men isn't any less less than yours.

You should learn to read more carefully.

I can see the reason for the elisions in your educational background.

No, you need to learn how to write something that doesn't sound like it was written by someone who just went on a bombing spree.


Oooooo.....

Looks like I hurt your widdle feelings.....


Bull's-eye!!
 
Oooooo.....

Looks like I hurt your widdle feelings.....


Bull's-eye!!

No, just being helpful. Your writing style is pretty much incoherent. It kind of sounds like Ted Kaczinski explaining how industrialization is destroying humanity.

Except in your case, it's how Catholicism and Socialism are teaming up to destroy America and Evolution isn't true and FDR was a Communist.
 
Oooooo.....

Looks like I hurt your widdle feelings.....


Bull's-eye!!

No, just being helpful. Your writing style is pretty much incoherent. It kind of sounds like Ted Kaczinski explaining how industrialization is destroying humanity.

Except in your case, it's how Catholicism and Socialism are teaming up to destroy America and Evolution isn't true and FDR was a Communist.



You can run, but you can't hide.
 
Popes and Catholicism and pedophiles, what a mess. But, then there is the mess of Islam, sharia law and suicide bombers/cells. Pedophilia is bad enough, stoning people to death like Fred Flintstone and crashing airplanes or strapping on bombs and killing innocent people? Drink the purple kool-aid. Jim Jones and his followers reminds me of these Muslims/Palestinian so much, it makes my head spin.
 
Nazism, communism, socialism......Leftism of every stripe was well represented among sizable segments of every religion.

Uuummmmmm.....except for the fact that Nazism is RIGHT wing, anyway.

As I mentioned earlier, a very right-wing and trationalist church was always going to find much to admire in a very right-wing and tradionalist Nazi party. They held many of the same values and principles, even though I don't think it is fair to accuse the church of having supported a genocide they could not have predicted.

I think it is crucial to consider that the church was faced with a choice between collaboration with Stalin's godless hordes and a party with whom they shared some very basic ideals. History condemns them for this, but I am not sure the choice was as shocking in 1935 as it had become by 1945.
 
btw . I do have to thank P.Chic for the honesty of this thread - it does make the first time that I have seen her attack the extreme right wing, and I think that is creditable.
 

Forum List

Back
Top