Religion As A Virus Of The Mind

[Quantum Windbag]

Does this mean you believe that an invisible, undetectable force controls human society?

I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.

I never used the word mystical.

My problem with the whole meme thing is that it is an attempt to break a culture up into individual units that can evolve and adapt. Dawkins might be a noted atheist, and extremely popular with liberals who want to discredit all religion, but as a scientist he is on a par with the creationists he despises. He just makes things up as he goes along, and the left does not call him on it because they like what he says.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The analogy is really weak because the "copy me" followed by "threats and promises" observation is not endemic to religion by any means. There is not a single area of life void of that mantra and the author is trying to segregate people of faith from people in general as a method of demonizing what comes down to a world ethos that is simply different than agnotics or atheists.

Religion is the institution of trying to defend the indefensible. That is a neutral definition because it applies to what can be seen as good or bad and distinguishes people of faith from others without stigmatizing them.

Some memes are almost entirely exploitative, or viral, in nature, including chain letters and e-mail viruses. These consist of a “copy-me” instruction backed up with threats and promises. Religions have a similar structure...​

One must keep the context of the whole post, and especially the context of the paragraph, up front when trying to invalidate the analogy.

What exactly did the author say that I agreed with in the OP? The author is NOT "trying to segregate people of faith from people in general as a method of demonizing" them. That is the conclusion you have jumped to without fully understanding what was written. The author is discussing memes, and the survival of a memeplex.

The argument I agree with does not invalidate challenge or your argument. Your argument is actually a much broader one about human nature and not religion as a meme.

Would you say you think religion is NOT exploitative or viral in nature?

Would you argue religion does NOT work on promises and threats?

Religion As A Virus Of The Mind: I didn't know Dawkins used this analogy. I am impressed with the succinctness of the analogy as I admire and agree with it's simple profoundness of meaning: "Religions are viruses of the mind."

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here we have an interesting contextual discussion of...

Memes are habits, skills, songs, stories, or any other kind of information that is copied from person to person. Memes, like genes, are replicators...Large groups of memes that are copied and passed on together are called co-adapted meme complexes, or memeplexes.
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Some memes are almost entirely exploitative, or viral, in nature, including chain letters and e-mail viruses. These consist of a “copy-me” instruction backed up with threats and promises. Religions have a similar structure and this is why Dawkins refers to them as ‘viruses of the mind’.

Many religions threaten hell and damnation, promise heaven or salvation, and insist that their followers pass on their beliefs to others. This ensures the survival of the memeplex. Other viral memes include alternative therapies that don’t work, and new age fads and cults.

Relatively harmless memes include children’s games, urban legends and popular songs, all of which can spread like infections.

http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/memetics/about%20memes.htm

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[Quantum Windbag]

Does this mean you believe that an invisible, undetectable force controls human society?

Human nature? Maybe.

You should go and find a real scientist to hang your posts on, Dawkins is considered a full blown idiot among real scientists.

 

[uscitizen]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-17BNU7L6g]YouTube - Jesus and the Story of Horus[/ame]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Religion As A Virus Of The Mind: I didn't know Dawkins used this analogy. I am impressed with the succinctness of the analogy as I admire and agree with it's simple profoundness of meaning: "Religions are viruses of the mind."

Religion isn't meant to be an endeavor of the intellect, but is food for the soul. If humans were purely intellectual, I would venture a guess that we would be the biggest bunch of assholes that ever walked the planet- even more so than we already have a propensity for being. Our social/moral values arise out of religious belief in one form or another.

Fear, wars and hatred also arise out of religious beliefs.

I get along a lot better with intellectuals than emotionally driven people.

That is the typical answer of people who do not understand what they are talking about. To bad not anthropologists actually agree with this idea.

Disciplinary Views Of War: Anthropology: Information from Answers.com

I know the facts are not going to make a difference to you, but I still like pointing them out to people.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I never used the word mystical.

My problem with the whole meme thing is that it is an attempt to break a culture up into individual units that can evolve and adapt. Dawkins might be a noted atheist, and extremely popular with liberals who want to discredit all religion, but as a scientist he is on a par with the creationists he despises. He just makes things up as he goes along, and the left does not call him on it because they like what he says.

I think a personal attack on Dawkins is out of line and silly. If you feel you can't discuss his ideas, please try harder.

The whole idea and discussion and study of memes goes far beyond what Dawkins has personally posited.

No one discredits religion as they debate what religion is, the word of a mystical being or a human construct. What would be discredited is the notion that religion is untouchable.

I value myths, and memes. I am in awe of some of what it represents. When you or anyone else confuses the representation of symbols and myths with reality is when we all get into a discussion being an attack meant to discredit.

Religion can, and has, and does still get practiced with symbolism and myth as representations as opposed to being mistaken for factual reality handed down by mystical beings.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ahh, the mind and the intellect vs the soul.

People have been "the biggest bunch of assholes that ever walked the planet" throughout most of human history. The exception prove the rule.

We have developed beyond the need of religion. Religion has also given rise to the most horrific acts carried out by humans.

The idea to respect a neighbor most likely predates religion. Survival depended upon it. Religious beliefs came about in ways that mostly have mostly benefited society at the expense of individuals. Religion as a virus is an interesting concept.

What one initially takes from the use of the term 'virus' says more about one, than one consciously appreciates.

If we have developed past the need for need for religion why does it still thrive?

 

[syrenn]

Does this mean you believe that an invisible, undetectable force controls human society?

I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.

I never used the word mystical.

My problem with the whole meme thing is that it is an attempt to break a culture up into individual units that can evolve and adapt. Dawkins might be a noted atheist, and extremely popular with liberals who want to discredit all religion, but as a scientist he is on a par with the creationists he despises. He just makes things up as he goes along, and the left does not call him on it because they like what he says.

I never said you did use the word mystical. You did use the word...Force.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Ahh, the mind and the intellect vs the soul.

People have been "the biggest bunch of assholes that ever walked the planet" throughout most of human history. The exception prove the rule.

We have developed beyond the need of religion. Religion has also given rise to the most horrific acts carried out by humans.

The idea to respect a neighbor most likely predates religion. Survival depended upon it. Religious beliefs came about in ways that mostly have mostly benefited society at the expense of individuals. Religion as a virus is an interesting concept.

What one initially takes from the use of the term 'virus' says more about one, than one consciously appreciates.

If we have developed past the need for need for religion why does it still thrive?

Human beings hold on to lots of things we do not need. In both science and philosophy. Body parts, genetic switches, ideas and ideals, culture, tradition...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I never used the word mystical.

My problem with the whole meme thing is that it is an attempt to break a culture up into individual units that can evolve and adapt. Dawkins might be a noted atheist, and extremely popular with liberals who want to discredit all religion, but as a scientist he is on a par with the creationists he despises. He just makes things up as he goes along, and the left does not call him on it because they like what he says.

I think a personal attack on Dawkins is out of line and silly. If you feel you can't discuss his ideas, please try harder.

The whole idea and discussion and study of memes goes far beyond what Dawkins has personally posited.

No one discredits religion as they debate what religion is, the word of a mystical being or a human construct. What would be discredited is the notion that religion is untouchable.

I value myths, and memes. I am in awe of some of what it represents. When you or anyone else confuses the representation of symbols and myths with reality is when we all get into a discussion being an attack meant to discredit.

Religion can, and has, and does still get practiced with symbolism and myth as representations as opposed to being mistaken for factual reality handed down by mystical beings.

Dawkin's memes deserve no more consideration than Behe's irreducible complexity. If you have a problem dealing with the truth you should go home and sulk.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Does this mean you believe that an invisible, undetectable force controls human society?

Human nature? Maybe.

You should go and find a real scientist to hang your posts on, Dawkins is considered a full blown idiot among real scientists.

I do not read or answer most responses to rep PMs. Too many trolls with too much time.

sorry

 

[Care4all]

what about the ''god gene'' discovered in 1995? Is this gene a virus? Nature not nurture makes people religious is the theory now....

btw, Hawkings is in love with his wife....she is why they say, he's had such a strong will to live 30 years longer than he should have lived, and his wife says without God, she could not have had the strength to cope with stephen's illness

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.

I never used the word mystical.

My problem with the whole meme thing is that it is an attempt to break a culture up into individual units that can evolve and adapt. Dawkins might be a noted atheist, and extremely popular with liberals who want to discredit all religion, but as a scientist he is on a par with the creationists he despises. He just makes things up as he goes along, and the left does not call him on it because they like what he says.

I never said you did use the word mystical. You did use the word...Force.

Memes are supposed to be ideas that evolve through natural selection, with successful ones spreading, and unsuccessful ones dying off. I was trying to determine why a person who wants to pretends that religion is stupid is attempting to rely on a concept that has no basis in science.

Dawkin's ideas are falling to advanced science, yet people still look to him as an expert. He really sin't, and the soomer uninformed proponents of evolution realize it, the better off they will be in the debate.

The Dawkins dogma – New Scientist K21st – Essential 21st Century Knowledge

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Dawkin's memes deserve no more consideration than Behe's irreducible complexity. If you have a problem dealing with the truth you should go home and sulk.

nope.

here is an anonymous quote you might appreciate when you get unstuck: "the argument from irreducible complexity is essentially a rehash of the famously flawed watchmaker argument advanced by William Paley at the start of the 19th century"

then we get this:

The British scientist Richard Dawkins coined the word "meme" in The Selfish Gene (1976)[1][4] as a concept for discussion of evolutionary
principles in explaining the spread of ideas and cultural phenomena.

---

Dawkins is NOT trying to discredit religion although in some ways that can be the message taken away by a look at memes as a concept, but you see it that way. Why? I have no idea, but memes is an explanation ::: as a concept for discussion of evolutionary principles in explaining the spread of ideas and cultural phenomena.

you get hung up on the obvious motives of Behe and mix them up with Dawkins' concept which is outside a discussion of religion.

Behe has a religion-ist agenda for sure. His religious beliefs dictate his scientific research. He is looking for data to support religious claims -- beliefs. Dawkins sometimes deals with bogus religion claims and refutes them, but Most of Dawkins' efforts are outside of the narrow provincial discussion of religion.

 

[syrenn]

I never used the word mystical.

My problem with the whole meme thing is that it is an attempt to break a culture up into individual units that can evolve and adapt. Dawkins might be a noted atheist, and extremely popular with liberals who want to discredit all religion, but as a scientist he is on a par with the creationists he despises. He just makes things up as he goes along, and the left does not call him on it because they like what he says.

I never said you did use the word mystical. You did use the word...Force.

Memes are supposed to be ideas that evolve through natural selection, with successful ones spreading, and unsuccessful ones dying off. I was trying to determine why a person who wants to pretends that religion is stupid is attempting to rely on a concept that has no basis in science.

Dawkin's ideas are falling to advanced science, yet people still look to him as an expert. He really sin't, and the soomer uninformed proponents of evolution realize it, the better off they will be in the debate.

The Dawkins dogma – New Scientist K21st – Essential 21st Century Knowledge

Ok, sorry but you are not getting what i said. Granted i did not put it in quotes, but it did seem to fit.

I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense

~Han Solo, starwars

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

what about the ''god gene'' discovered in 1995? Is this gene a virus? Nature not nurture makes people religious is the theory now....

btw, Hawkings is in love with his wife....she is why they say, he's had such a strong will to live 30 years longer than he should have lived, and his wife says without God, she could not have had the strength to cope with stephen's illness

Most people have misunderstood exactly what was meant by 'god gene' but no surprise there. There was never really a claim that a god gene was discovered: The God gene hypothesis proposes that human beings inherit a set of genes that predisposes them towards spiritual or mystic experiences.

Hawkings' wife beliefs are not science based.

Some of the god gene hypothesis goes hand in hand with the meme concept. People use the term 'gene' in a general way. Technically we all have and share very few genes compared to what was hypothesized a few years before the genome project.

We do have lots of triggers and 'stuff'

 

[uscitizen]

Religion isn't meant to be an endeavor of the intellect, but is food for the soul. If humans were purely intellectual, I would venture a guess that we would be the biggest bunch of assholes that ever walked the planet- even more so than we already have a propensity for being. Our social/moral values arise out of religious belief in one form or another.

Fear, wars and hatred also arise out of religious beliefs.

I get along a lot better with intellectuals than emotionally driven people.

That is the typical answer of people who do not understand what they are talking about. To bad not anthropologists actually agree with this idea.

Disciplinary Views Of War: Anthropology: Information from Answers.com

I know the facts are not going to make a difference to you, but I still like pointing them out to people.

You mean we invaded Iraq not thinking god was on our side?

 

[uscitizen]

I never said you did use the word mystical. You did use the word...Force.

Memes are supposed to be ideas that evolve through natural selection, with successful ones spreading, and unsuccessful ones dying off. I was trying to determine why a person who wants to pretends that religion is stupid is attempting to rely on a concept that has no basis in science.

Dawkin's ideas are falling to advanced science, yet people still look to him as an expert. He really sin't, and the soomer uninformed proponents of evolution realize it, the better off they will be in the debate.

The Dawkins dogma – New Scientist K21st – Essential 21st Century Knowledge

Ok, sorry but you are not getting what i said. Granted i did not put it in quotes, but it did seem to fit.

I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense

~Han Solo, starwars

the strangest and most intertaining stuff I see revolves around political hacks and their blind faith in the party or leader.
I don't think God gives a rats ass about their madness.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Human nature? Maybe.

You should go and find a real scientist to hang your posts on, Dawkins is considered a full blown idiot among real scientists.

I do not read or answer most responses to rep PMs. Too many trolls with too much time.

sorry

Don't really give a fuck if you read my response. If you don't like my posts point out the problems you have in public. It is not my fault you fell in love with a psuedoscience simply because it fits into your world view. Maybe you and JBuekema can have a mutual admiration society for your false beliefs.

The new pseudoscience of memes

Memes Are Not Science

Meme - Criticism Of Memetic Theory - York, Oxford, Press, Memetics, Human, and Memes

I was more than willing to discuss this rationally, but you want to go out and neg rep simply because I hold contempt for stupidity like this. I hold Dawkins in contempt because he does not deserve respect. If you want to defend him then be my guest, but I will point out your stupidity every time you do so. The man is an insult to scientists and right thinking people everywhere.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

what about the ''god gene'' discovered in 1995? Is this gene a virus? Nature not nurture makes people religious is the theory now....

btw, Hawkings is in love with his wife....she is why they say, he's had such a strong will to live 30 years longer than he should have lived, and his wife says without God, she could not have had the strength to cope with stephen's illness

There is no god gene.

Jeff Schweitzer: The Fallacy of the God Gene