Reason and Experience tell us that there is Evidence for a Creator

[yiostheoy]

You have something against inner city kids?

You need to mind your p's and q's ding .

Your grammar is very bad.

It points to someone with little education.

 

[ding]

Great and the judge or the jury must weigh the evidence and testimony to decide which interpretation is the one they will choose, right?

Continue.

Right. So each of us are the judge and jury. We have to weigh the evidence and decide for ourselves. We can both look at the exact same evidence and come to different conclusions, but we know from our experiences and our own reasoning that what is created can be used as evidence to learn something about the creator who made it. So when people say that someone who believes in God has no evidence, that isn't really correct because reason and experience tells us that there is evidence. Its just that some people don't accept it while others do.

You have been a great sport. I appreciate your honesty. Do you have any questions for me?

So you chose to believe that there is a creator. What is that supposed to mean to me? You can believe any silly thing you want. I don't care. Just don't expect me to make that choice without some reason to believe it. You haven't presented anything to convince anything to anybody. I already knew you believed in a creator. What were you trying to prove?

We just went through this. I have evidence that I accept. That's what I have proved.

As I said. Believe what you want. If you want me to agree with you, I'll need some reason to do so. You have not presented anything near that.

I don't want you to agree with me. I couldn't care less what you choose to believe. Seriously. Believe anything you want. I have my reason. I'm not a missionary. I'm just a bad Catholic.

 

[BULLDOG]

As I said. Believe what you want. If you want me to agree with you, I'll need some reason to do so. You have not presented anything near that.

ding has a very bad habit of trapping himself that way, yes, you are right BULLDOG .

I wonder if he will ever see his way out of his recurring dilemma?

Nobody doubts that he believes what he believes. If that makes him feel better then, good for him.

 

[ding]

You are missing the point.

If you are going to allege that I am missing a point then STATE YOUR POINT and demonstrate how I am missing it, Child.

I did already. It was in post #98.

Each of us are the judge and jury. We have to weigh the evidence and decide for ourselves. We can both look at the exact same evidence and come to different conclusions, but we know from our experiences and our own reasoning that what is created can be used as evidence to learn something about the creator who made it. So when people say that someone who believes in God has no evidence, that isn't really correct because reason and experience tells us that there is evidence. Its just that some people don't accept it while others do.

Restate your thesis.

The numbering system is different for everyone due to people on "ignore".

Use a multi quote if you need to.

Each of us are the judge and jury. We have to weigh the evidence and decide for ourselves. We can both look at the exact same evidence and come to different conclusions, but we know from our experiences and our own reasoning that what is created can be used as evidence to learn something about the creator who made it. So when people say that someone who believes in God has no evidence, that isn't really correct because reason and experience tells us that there is evidence. Its just that some people don't accept it while others do.

Ok. I'll change that to you have no evidence that a sane person would accept.

I can live with that. I've been called worse, but if I were you, I'd direct my attention to yosi. He's calling you all kind of names. Apparently it matter to him what you believe. Me? Couldn't care less. Live and let live.

 

[yiostheoy]

I'll wait until your next thread ding and see if you can formulate your notions logically and rationally next time.

So far you are not too good at rationality or logic.

You are missing a foundation of philosophy as well.

And in religion you have missed the whole point of faith.

 

[ding]

As I said. Believe what you want. If you want me to agree with you, I'll need some reason to do so. You have not presented anything near that.

ding has a very bad habit of trapping himself that way, yes, you are right BULLDOG .

I wonder if he will ever see his way out of his recurring dilemma?

Nobody doubts that he believes what he believes. If that makes him feel better then, good for him.

Good Lord, did you see what he wrote about you in post #107?

 

[ding]

I'll wait until your next thread ding and see if you can formulate your notions logically and rationally next time.

So far you are not too good at rationality or logic.

You are missing a foundation of philosophy as well.

And in religion you have missed the whole point of faith.

I believe philosophy sucks. Those guys couldn't find their ass with both hands. Most of them are sexual deviants anyway.

 

[ding]

You have something against inner city kids?

You need to mind your p's and q's ding .

Your grammar is very bad.

It points to someone with little education.

lol, is that so? What was it that you were saying about atheists again?

 

[BULLDOG]

As I said. Believe what you want. If you want me to agree with you, I'll need some reason to do so. You have not presented anything near that.

ding has a very bad habit of trapping himself that way, yes, you are right BULLDOG .

I wonder if he will ever see his way out of his recurring dilemma?

Nobody doubts that he believes what he believes. If that makes him feel better then, good for him.

Good Lord, did you see what he wrote about you in post #107?

Not sure why you would think anything said about atheists would bother me. Uninformed fools say all kinds of dumb shit.

 

[Skull Pilot]

V'Ger seeks the creator......also, to merge.....

Great one.
I wonder how many people got it

 

[BULLDOG]

You have something against inner city kids?

You need to mind your p's and q's ding .

Your grammar is very bad.

It points to someone with little education.

lol, is that so? What was it that you were saying about atheists again?

I'm pretty sure this will surprise you, but I respect your faith. I'm just tired of religious nuts spouting crap from their heart felt beliefs without using the slightest bit of logic or Jesus's teachings to determine what they believe. Jesus said to be as wise as a serpent, but as gentile as a dove. The so called religious right,and you are neither.

 

[there4eyeM]

Reason and experience tell us that there is evidence for a Creator.

Ok it looks like you are going to try this thread again.

Philosophical reasoning does indeed give us reason to conclude that a God or Gods must exist.

In a nutshell, the argument and reasoning go that something had to exist endlessly for the creation of matter to occur at some point.

Experience is anecdotal and subject to reasonable or unreasonable self determination.

If God appeared to you, as in the reputed cases of Moses, Elijah, Mary, John The Baptist, Jesus, Peter, James, John the Apostle, and Paul the Apostle, then you can say that in your experience you KNOW there is a living God or Gods.

Any other type of delusion such as self delusion is not valid. Unless you have seen with your eyes, heard with your ears, and touched with you hands, you do not know for yourself.

Faith is what comes into play if you do not know. Faith is the criterion that Jesus gave us for knowing God.

If this is what you are trying to say then I agree.

Even the appearance of a divine One would still only come into the consciousness of the person through the totally subjective avenue of perception. That individual may be convinced; no one else has any more information than he or she had before. There cannot be any absolute objective confirmation of one's consciousness. This is the reason that the only thing we can know for certain exists is our consciousness.
Ultimately, belief in God is only that, belief, a choice. That is precisely why all the upset and violence around faith/religion is so absurd.

 

[Czernobog]

No, you cannot. I am not a proxy for your imaginary Creator. Either you have prove that the Sun was created, or you don't. Since we know that I did not create the Sun, I am not necessary for your proof, if your proof is sound. So, go ahead. Prove the Sun was created.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

The fact that you won't answer these question proves that you are too stupid to have this discussion with me.

LOL! Your concession is noted. Have a good evening.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

I am happy how this convversation has played out. When you are ready to answer these questions honestly, we can move on to the discussion of proof. Evidence and proof are not necessarily the same thing, but you are not intelligent enough to make a distinction.

I'm also happy how this converstaion played out. When you are ready to offer honest proof, then I will be happy to see it. Demanding that I begin by conceding your presumption is not honest; it is admitting that you have no rational argument.

Dude, you were too much of a coward to be honest. I can't prove anything to someone who is as dishonest as you are.

Bullshit. Cowardice has nothing to do with it. You wanted me to start from a position of presuming that the universe is created. This is why you wanted to use a smart phone as your "proxy". The Smart phone is your proxy for the cosmos. I am unwilling to start from your presumption. I'm sorry that refusing to start from your already pre-conceived notion that the universe is created makes it too difficult for you to prove that there is a creator.

Try again.

 

[Czernobog]

Continue.If I find a misunderstanding, I will point it out.

Great. Have you ever been to court? Whether it is a criminal case or a civil case or a regulatory proceeding, they all have one thing in common. Evidence will be presented. The interesting thing is that opposing sides will almost have a different interpretation of what that evidence means, right? Do you agree with that?

Continue. Yes opposing parties will have different opinions of what the facts present.

Great and the judge or the jury must weigh the evidence and testimony to decide which interpretation is the one they will choose, right?

Continue.

Right. So each of us are the judge and jury. We have to weigh the evidence and decide for ourselves. We can both look at the exact same evidence and come to different conclusions, but we know from our experiences and our own reasoning that what is created can be used as evidence to learn something about the creator who made it. So when people say that someone who believes in God has no evidence, that isn't really correct because reason and experience tells us that there is evidence. Its just that some people don't accept it while others do.

You have been a great sport. I appreciate your honesty. Do you have any questions for me?

And we're back to your irrational leap of logic. You can presume BULLDOG's motorised cart was a created thing, because you have the experiential knowledge of motorised vehicles being built, so there is a logical reason to believe that the cart in question was built. From that logical position, you can infer a builder, and one can, of course, begin to explore, from the evidence of the creation, qualities about the creator.

Now, please demonstrate for us your experiential knowledge of a Sun being created. Where were you, and under what circumstance, were you present when a Sun was created, in order to lead you to the certainty that our Sun was created? See? This was why I was not willing to play your silly game. I knew where you were going, and where you were going requires me, or in this case BULLDOG, to concede that just as he "built" the motorised cart, that the Sun was also "built". You have no evidence of that presumption.

 

[ding]

You have something against inner city kids?

You need to mind your p's and q's ding .

Your grammar is very bad.

It points to someone with little education.

lol, is that so? What was it that you were saying about atheists again?

I'm pretty sure this will surprise you, but I respect your faith. I'm just tired of religious nuts spouting crap from their heart felt beliefs without using the slightest bit of logic or Jesus's teachings to determine what they believe. Jesus said to be as wise as a serpent, but as gentile as a dove. The so called religious right,and you are neither.

This too shall pass.

 

[ding]

Great. Have you ever been to court? Whether it is a criminal case or a civil case or a regulatory proceeding, they all have one thing in common. Evidence will be presented. The interesting thing is that opposing sides will almost have a different interpretation of what that evidence means, right? Do you agree with that?

Continue. Yes opposing parties will have different opinions of what the facts present.

Great and the judge or the jury must weigh the evidence and testimony to decide which interpretation is the one they will choose, right?

Continue.

Right. So each of us are the judge and jury. We have to weigh the evidence and decide for ourselves. We can both look at the exact same evidence and come to different conclusions, but we know from our experiences and our own reasoning that what is created can be used as evidence to learn something about the creator who made it. So when people say that someone who believes in God has no evidence, that isn't really correct because reason and experience tells us that there is evidence. Its just that some people don't accept it while others do.

You have been a great sport. I appreciate your honesty. Do you have any questions for me?

And we're back to your irrational leap of logic. You can presume BULLDOG's motorised cart was a created thing, because you have the experiential knowledge of motorised vehicles being built, so there is a logical reason to believe that the cart in question was built. From that logical position, you can infer a builder, and one can, of course, begin to explore, from the evidence of the creation, qualities about the creator.

Now, please demonstrate for us your experiential knowledge of a Sun being created. Where were you, and under what circumstance, were you present when a Sun was created, in order to lead you to the certainty that our Sun was created? See? This was why I was not willing to play your silly game. I knew where you were going, and where you were going requires me, or in this case BULLDOG, to concede that just as he "built" the motorised cart, that the Sun was also "built". You have no evidence of that presumption.

I thought you left.

 

[Czernobog]

Continue. Yes opposing parties will have different opinions of what the facts present.

Great and the judge or the jury must weigh the evidence and testimony to decide which interpretation is the one they will choose, right?

Continue.

Right. So each of us are the judge and jury. We have to weigh the evidence and decide for ourselves. We can both look at the exact same evidence and come to different conclusions, but we know from our experiences and our own reasoning that what is created can be used as evidence to learn something about the creator who made it. So when people say that someone who believes in God has no evidence, that isn't really correct because reason and experience tells us that there is evidence. Its just that some people don't accept it while others do.

You have been a great sport. I appreciate your honesty. Do you have any questions for me?

And we're back to your irrational leap of logic. You can presume BULLDOG's motorised cart was a created thing, because you have the experiential knowledge of motorised vehicles being built, so there is a logical reason to believe that the cart in question was built. From that logical position, you can infer a builder, and one can, of course, begin to explore, from the evidence of the creation, qualities about the creator.

Now, please demonstrate for us your experiential knowledge of a Sun being created. Where were you, and under what circumstance, were you present when a Sun was created, in order to lead you to the certainty that our Sun was created? See? This was why I was not willing to play your silly game. I knew where you were going, and where you were going requires me, or in this case BULLDOG, to concede that just as he "built" the motorised cart, that the Sun was also "built". You have no evidence of that presumption.

I thought you left.

Nope, and you still have not achieved your stated goal.

 

[ding]

Great and the judge or the jury must weigh the evidence and testimony to decide which interpretation is the one they will choose, right?

Continue.

Right. So each of us are the judge and jury. We have to weigh the evidence and decide for ourselves. We can both look at the exact same evidence and come to different conclusions, but we know from our experiences and our own reasoning that what is created can be used as evidence to learn something about the creator who made it. So when people say that someone who believes in God has no evidence, that isn't really correct because reason and experience tells us that there is evidence. Its just that some people don't accept it while others do.

You have been a great sport. I appreciate your honesty. Do you have any questions for me?

And we're back to your irrational leap of logic. You can presume BULLDOG's motorised cart was a created thing, because you have the experiential knowledge of motorised vehicles being built, so there is a logical reason to believe that the cart in question was built. From that logical position, you can infer a builder, and one can, of course, begin to explore, from the evidence of the creation, qualities about the creator.

Now, please demonstrate for us your experiential knowledge of a Sun being created. Where were you, and under what circumstance, were you present when a Sun was created, in order to lead you to the certainty that our Sun was created? See? This was why I was not willing to play your silly game. I knew where you were going, and where you were going requires me, or in this case BULLDOG, to concede that just as he "built" the motorised cart, that the Sun was also "built". You have no evidence of that presumption.

I thought you left.

Nope, and you still have not achieved your stated goal.

Sure I did, just not with you. You don't have the security of belief to have an honest discussion on the subject like Bulldog did.

 

[Czernobog]

Continue.

Right. So each of us are the judge and jury. We have to weigh the evidence and decide for ourselves. We can both look at the exact same evidence and come to different conclusions, but we know from our experiences and our own reasoning that what is created can be used as evidence to learn something about the creator who made it. So when people say that someone who believes in God has no evidence, that isn't really correct because reason and experience tells us that there is evidence. Its just that some people don't accept it while others do.

You have been a great sport. I appreciate your honesty. Do you have any questions for me?

And we're back to your irrational leap of logic. You can presume BULLDOG's motorised cart was a created thing, because you have the experiential knowledge of motorised vehicles being built, so there is a logical reason to believe that the cart in question was built. From that logical position, you can infer a builder, and one can, of course, begin to explore, from the evidence of the creation, qualities about the creator.

Now, please demonstrate for us your experiential knowledge of a Sun being created. Where were you, and under what circumstance, were you present when a Sun was created, in order to lead you to the certainty that our Sun was created? See? This was why I was not willing to play your silly game. I knew where you were going, and where you were going requires me, or in this case BULLDOG, to concede that just as he "built" the motorised cart, that the Sun was also "built". You have no evidence of that presumption.

I thought you left.

Nope, and you still have not achieved your stated goal.

Sure I did, just not with you. You don't have the security of belief to have an honest discussion on the subject like Bulldog did.

"Security of belief" is just another way of saying preconceived notion for which I am seeking confirmation. You're right. I don't. I don't need "belief". I need evidence. With evidence comes certainty. Belief requires the suspension of intellect.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[BULLDOG]

Continue.

Right. So each of us are the judge and jury. We have to weigh the evidence and decide for ourselves. We can both look at the exact same evidence and come to different conclusions, but we know from our experiences and our own reasoning that what is created can be used as evidence to learn something about the creator who made it. So when people say that someone who believes in God has no evidence, that isn't really correct because reason and experience tells us that there is evidence. Its just that some people don't accept it while others do.

You have been a great sport. I appreciate your honesty. Do you have any questions for me?

And we're back to your irrational leap of logic. You can presume BULLDOG's motorised cart was a created thing, because you have the experiential knowledge of motorised vehicles being built, so there is a logical reason to believe that the cart in question was built. From that logical position, you can infer a builder, and one can, of course, begin to explore, from the evidence of the creation, qualities about the creator.

Now, please demonstrate for us your experiential knowledge of a Sun being created. Where were you, and under what circumstance, were you present when a Sun was created, in order to lead you to the certainty that our Sun was created? See? This was why I was not willing to play your silly game. I knew where you were going, and where you were going requires me, or in this case BULLDOG, to concede that just as he "built" the motorised cart, that the Sun was also "built". You have no evidence of that presumption.

I thought you left.

Nope, and you still have not achieved your stated goal.

Sure I did, just not with you. You don't have the security of belief to have an honest discussion on the subject like Bulldog did.

Just an afterthought, but you might want to know that the story about the cart was just made up on the spot, and anything you might have considered evidence from your evaluation of what you knew about it would be nothing but pure conjecture. I suspect much of what you consider to be evidence of a creator has been derived with the same analytical effort.