Reason and Experience tell us that there is Evidence for a Creator

[Czernobog]

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you. I find it interesting that anytime I, or anyone else talks about opposing religious encroachment of the non-religious, you call it "external locus of control", as if it is a mistake to do anything other than let religious theocrats, like yourself, do whatever they want. We (humans) tried that approach, once, and we learned a valuable lesson:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemöller

Of course, you think that Niemöller did exactly what he should have done - nothing. don't react to those "external loci", that's baaaad.

How are those examples of me having an external locus of control?

It doesn't surprise me that you don't understand the post.

Then please do explain it to me.

Here; allow me to rephrase it in a way that might help you understand:

First they came for the homosexuals, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a homosexual.

Then they came for the Muslims, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Muslim.

Then they came for the pagans, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a pagan.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

See if, reading this, you can suss out why we atheists think it is important to oppose Christians every time they try to dictate their believes on others through legislation, or public school indoctrination, even if it is about something that does not effect us, personally.

I have spoken out about a great many things, so I am still not understanding your point. I do not believe you understand the concept of external locus of control for even if I had not spoken out that still would not been a sign of an external locus of control.

Of course you don't. You say you have spoken out against a great many things. So explain to me why it is that when I suggest that I, or other atheists should do the same, you keep insisting that that is evidence of our reaction to external locus of control, but when you do so, it, apparently, is not?

 

[Czernobog]

people are learning that they don't need Christianity to be happy, moral, and ethical.

I see. So you believe that trolling religious forums to mock the beliefs of others is happy, moral and ethical?

I see it as a public service. Admit it, since you've been here, we've made you question your beliefs, and the proof of that is how the more you argue, the less you make sense because of all the holes you know that you leave in your arguments.
You're welcome.

Would you like to abolish religion?

Told you it was comin Mudda .

It is the logical conclusion to your subjective argument. Don't be afraid to say what you really believe. Opinions not worth expressing are opinions that are not worth a shit.

No it's not, as has been demonstrated for you, repeatedly. You are just too ignorant, and biased to understand logic.

 

[Mudda]

people are learning that they don't need Christianity to be happy, moral, and ethical.

I see. So you believe that trolling religious forums to mock the beliefs of others is happy, moral and ethical?

I see it as a public service. Admit it, since you've been here, we've made you question your beliefs, and the proof of that is how the more you argue, the less you make sense because of all the holes you know that you leave in your arguments.
You're welcome.

Would you like to abolish religion?

Abolishing religion is not feasible at this point in time. Over time, as the people overall get smarter, the facts of where we came from will emerge on their own. Until then, the battle against ignorance must go on since there are still too many people pushing their religious myths into the public sphere and trying to make everyone as ignorant as they are.

But if you could, would you do it? Because it seems that you are saying that at some later point in time you'd like to do it, right?

It's like asking me if I would abolish Santa Claus. As long as other people don't expect me to believe in Santa Claus and don't want to teach in schools that Santa Claus is real, and basically keep it to themselves, you can keep that picture of Scooby Doo on your wall and worship it every day.

 

[ding]

How are those examples of me having an external locus of control?

It doesn't surprise me that you don't understand the post.

Then please do explain it to me.

Here; allow me to rephrase it in a way that might help you understand:

First they came for the homosexuals, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a homosexual.

Then they came for the Muslims, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Muslim.

Then they came for the pagans, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a pagan.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

See if, reading this, you can suss out why we atheists think it is important to oppose Christians every time they try to dictate their believes on others through legislation, or public school indoctrination, even if it is about something that does not effect us, personally.

I have spoken out about a great many things, so I am still not understanding your point. I do not believe you understand the concept of external locus of control for even if I had not spoken out that still would not been a sign of an external locus of control.

Of course you don't. You say you have spoken out against a great many things. So explain to me why it is that when I suggest that I, or other atheists should do the same, you keep insisting that that is evidence of our reaction to external locus of control, but when you do so, it, apparently, is not?

Just the other day I admonished Christians for behaving poorly. What does that have to do with having an external locus of control? Nothing, that's what. Are you so ignorant on this subject that you cannot converse intelligently about what it is and what it looks like when someone displays it?

 

[ding]

I see. So you believe that trolling religious forums to mock the beliefs of others is happy, moral and ethical?

I see it as a public service. Admit it, since you've been here, we've made you question your beliefs, and the proof of that is how the more you argue, the less you make sense because of all the holes you know that you leave in your arguments.
You're welcome.

Would you like to abolish religion?

Abolishing religion is not feasible at this point in time. Over time, as the people overall get smarter, the facts of where we came from will emerge on their own. Until then, the battle against ignorance must go on since there are still too many people pushing their religious myths into the public sphere and trying to make everyone as ignorant as they are.

But if you could, would you do it? Because it seems that you are saying that at some later point in time you'd like to do it, right?

It's like asking me if I would abolish Santa Claus. As long as other people don't expect me to believe in Santa Claus and don't want to teach in schools that Santa Claus is real, and basically keep it to themselves, you can keep that picture of Scooby Doo on your wall and worship it every day.

No one has asked you to believe it. You are here asking others to not believe it. So are you going to be a man and admit what you want?

 

[ding]

I see. So you believe that trolling religious forums to mock the beliefs of others is happy, moral and ethical?

I see it as a public service. Admit it, since you've been here, we've made you question your beliefs, and the proof of that is how the more you argue, the less you make sense because of all the holes you know that you leave in your arguments.
You're welcome.

Would you like to abolish religion?

Told you it was comin Mudda .

It is the logical conclusion to your subjective argument. Don't be afraid to say what you really believe. Opinions not worth expressing are opinions that are not worth a shit.

No it's not, as has been demonstrated for you, repeatedly. You are just too ignorant, and biased to understand logic.

Of course it is the logical conclusion to your argument.

1. It has done no good for man.
2. It has resulted in great evil being done by man.
3. People who believe in religion should be ridiculed and mocked.
4. Ultimately religion should be banned.

How is that illogical?

 

[ding]

I wonder if any people have ever banned religion before and what happened to their people after they did.

 

[there4eyeM]

What is the proof the things on that long list would not be present even without 'religion'?

 

[Mudda]

I see it as a public service. Admit it, since you've been here, we've made you question your beliefs, and the proof of that is how the more you argue, the less you make sense because of all the holes you know that you leave in your arguments.
You're welcome.

Would you like to abolish religion?

Abolishing religion is not feasible at this point in time. Over time, as the people overall get smarter, the facts of where we came from will emerge on their own. Until then, the battle against ignorance must go on since there are still too many people pushing their religious myths into the public sphere and trying to make everyone as ignorant as they are.

But if you could, would you do it? Because it seems that you are saying that at some later point in time you'd like to do it, right?

It's like asking me if I would abolish Santa Claus. As long as other people don't expect me to believe in Santa Claus and don't want to teach in schools that Santa Claus is real, and basically keep it to themselves, you can keep that picture of Scooby Doo on your wall and worship it every day.

No one has asked you to believe it. You are here asking others to not believe it. So are you going to be a man and admit what you want?

Actually, when I first came here, I was interested in WHY people believe in the invisible big guy. Turns out nodoby has any real proof as the foundation of their beliefs. Now I'm just trying to help people see reality, which is that there's no proof either way for or against the existence of a god. It can lead to interesting discussions, as people lay out their fantastic vision of things.

 

[Czernobog]

I see it as a public service. Admit it, since you've been here, we've made you question your beliefs, and the proof of that is how the more you argue, the less you make sense because of all the holes you know that you leave in your arguments.
You're welcome.

Would you like to abolish religion?

Told you it was comin Mudda .

It is the logical conclusion to your subjective argument. Don't be afraid to say what you really believe. Opinions not worth expressing are opinions that are not worth a shit.

No it's not, as has been demonstrated for you, repeatedly. You are just too ignorant, and biased to understand logic.

Of course it is the logical conclusion to your argument.

1. It has done no good for man.
2. It has resulted in great evil being done by man.
3. People who believe in religion should be ridiculed and mocked.
4. Ultimately religion should be banned.

How is that illogical?

Oh, i't's perfectly logical...if you are an authoritarian, and only understand forcing people to do things you want them to, whether they want to, or not. That's why you will never understand the position of enlightened atheists. Because you are, as your religion has raised you to be, and authoritarian.

 

[MisterBeale]

And since it is also authoritarian, and repressive, it is also no wonder that Christianity was abandoned, and continues to be abandoned since the Age of Reason. Man is figuring out that we don't need your repressive, authoritarian religion to be moral, or to find self-worth, and, as a result, happiness And before you suggest that I am, again, "amending" my position, I never denied that Christianity had fundamental influence on Western civilisation. I dispute that the majority of that influence was positive. There's a difference.

Christianity has not been abandoned. You must have a different definition of abandoned.

Christianity is the opposite of repressive and authoritarian. We are given free will to choose. Repressive and authoritarian is what your religion of militant atheism is all about.

Since you have never done an objective assessment on the value of religion, and since you have already gone on record as saying there is no baby in the bathwater, I'm going to go with you have no objectivity on this subject.

Between 2007 to 2014 Americans who consider themselves Christian decreased by 8%, while those who claim no religious affiliations rose by a whopping 6.7% The biggest percentage of those fleeing religion (36%) are millennials. The reality is that Christianity is becoming old, and dying. Those are just facts - you know that objective reality we were talking about. You deny reality all you like. It doesn't stop being reality. Christianity is being abandoned. First the religion lost all of its political power during the Age of Reason, and now that the leaders of Christianity can no longer force citizens to affiliate themselves with Christianity, people are learning that they don't need Christianity to be happy, moral, and ethical.

Most of my millennial friends on FB follow this page. . .

This is not the sign of true happiness.
Nihilist Memes | Facebook


A good percentage of them are on some sort of psychotropic.

Happiness from a pill doesn't count.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out you yourself are taking Soma.

 

[Czernobog]

And since it is also authoritarian, and repressive, it is also no wonder that Christianity was abandoned, and continues to be abandoned since the Age of Reason. Man is figuring out that we don't need your repressive, authoritarian religion to be moral, or to find self-worth, and, as a result, happiness And before you suggest that I am, again, "amending" my position, I never denied that Christianity had fundamental influence on Western civilisation. I dispute that the majority of that influence was positive. There's a difference.

Christianity has not been abandoned. You must have a different definition of abandoned.

Christianity is the opposite of repressive and authoritarian. We are given free will to choose. Repressive and authoritarian is what your religion of militant atheism is all about.

Since you have never done an objective assessment on the value of religion, and since you have already gone on record as saying there is no baby in the bathwater, I'm going to go with you have no objectivity on this subject.

Between 2007 to 2014 Americans who consider themselves Christian decreased by 8%, while those who claim no religious affiliations rose by a whopping 6.7% The biggest percentage of those fleeing religion (36%) are millennials. The reality is that Christianity is becoming old, and dying. Those are just facts - you know that objective reality we were talking about. You deny reality all you like. It doesn't stop being reality. Christianity is being abandoned. First the religion lost all of its political power during the Age of Reason, and now that the leaders of Christianity can no longer force citizens to affiliate themselves with Christianity, people are learning that they don't need Christianity to be happy, moral, and ethical.

Most of my millennial friends on FB follow this page. . .

This is not the sign of true happiness.
Nihilist Memes | Facebook


A good percentage of them are on some sort of psychotropic.

Happiness from a pill doesn't count.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out you yourself are taking Soma.

I'm sure it wouldn't. Suicide is higher among Mormons than any other demographic. Among Catholics, 63% have admitted to substance abuse. Spousal abuse is 4 times more likely among Baptists than any other belief system. Seems atheism isn't really the source of modern unhappiness, and religion doesn't seem to have any secret cure for unhappiness, and violence.

 

[MisterBeale]

And since it is also authoritarian, and repressive, it is also no wonder that Christianity was abandoned, and continues to be abandoned since the Age of Reason. Man is figuring out that we don't need your repressive, authoritarian religion to be moral, or to find self-worth, and, as a result, happiness And before you suggest that I am, again, "amending" my position, I never denied that Christianity had fundamental influence on Western civilisation. I dispute that the majority of that influence was positive. There's a difference.

Christianity has not been abandoned. You must have a different definition of abandoned.

Christianity is the opposite of repressive and authoritarian. We are given free will to choose. Repressive and authoritarian is what your religion of militant atheism is all about.

Since you have never done an objective assessment on the value of religion, and since you have already gone on record as saying there is no baby in the bathwater, I'm going to go with you have no objectivity on this subject.

Between 2007 to 2014 Americans who consider themselves Christian decreased by 8%, while those who claim no religious affiliations rose by a whopping 6.7% The biggest percentage of those fleeing religion (36%) are millennials. The reality is that Christianity is becoming old, and dying. Those are just facts - you know that objective reality we were talking about. You deny reality all you like. It doesn't stop being reality. Christianity is being abandoned. First the religion lost all of its political power during the Age of Reason, and now that the leaders of Christianity can no longer force citizens to affiliate themselves with Christianity, people are learning that they don't need Christianity to be happy, moral, and ethical.

Most of my millennial friends on FB follow this page. . .

This is not the sign of true happiness.
Nihilist Memes | Facebook


A good percentage of them are on some sort of psychotropic.

Happiness from a pill doesn't count.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out you yourself are taking Soma.

I'm sure it wouldn't. Suicide is higher among Mormons than any other demographic. Among Catholics, 63% have admitted to substance abuse. Spousal abuse is 4 times more likely among Baptists than any other belief system. Seems atheism isn't really the source of modern unhappiness, and religion doesn't seem to have any secret cure for unhappiness, and violence.

Wow. Thanks.

Post me the link would you, I'd be interested in reading that article.

 

[Czernobog]

And since it is also authoritarian, and repressive, it is also no wonder that Christianity was abandoned, and continues to be abandoned since the Age of Reason. Man is figuring out that we don't need your repressive, authoritarian religion to be moral, or to find self-worth, and, as a result, happiness And before you suggest that I am, again, "amending" my position, I never denied that Christianity had fundamental influence on Western civilisation. I dispute that the majority of that influence was positive. There's a difference.

Christianity has not been abandoned. You must have a different definition of abandoned.

Christianity is the opposite of repressive and authoritarian. We are given free will to choose. Repressive and authoritarian is what your religion of militant atheism is all about.

Since you have never done an objective assessment on the value of religion, and since you have already gone on record as saying there is no baby in the bathwater, I'm going to go with you have no objectivity on this subject.

Between 2007 to 2014 Americans who consider themselves Christian decreased by 8%, while those who claim no religious affiliations rose by a whopping 6.7% The biggest percentage of those fleeing religion (36%) are millennials. The reality is that Christianity is becoming old, and dying. Those are just facts - you know that objective reality we were talking about. You deny reality all you like. It doesn't stop being reality. Christianity is being abandoned. First the religion lost all of its political power during the Age of Reason, and now that the leaders of Christianity can no longer force citizens to affiliate themselves with Christianity, people are learning that they don't need Christianity to be happy, moral, and ethical.

Most of my millennial friends on FB follow this page. . .

This is not the sign of true happiness.
Nihilist Memes | Facebook


A good percentage of them are on some sort of psychotropic.

Happiness from a pill doesn't count.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out you yourself are taking Soma.

I'm sure it wouldn't. Suicide is higher among Mormons than any other demographic. Among Catholics, 63% have admitted to substance abuse. Spousal abuse is 4 times more likely among Baptists than any other belief system. Seems atheism isn't really the source of modern unhappiness, and religion doesn't seem to have any secret cure for unhappiness, and violence.

Wow. Thanks.

Post me the link would you, I'd be interested in reading that article.

That information didn't come from "an article". It came from researching suicide, and other statistics, from various sources. You see, that's the problem with you religious folks. No one ever taught you how to research, and think critically, and come to conclusions on your own. Rather it taught you how to read "acceptable" literature, magazines, and websites, and parrot what other people think.

Hopefully one day you will learn to actually think for yourself.

 

[MisterBeale]

Christianity has not been abandoned. You must have a different definition of abandoned.

Christianity is the opposite of repressive and authoritarian. We are given free will to choose. Repressive and authoritarian is what your religion of militant atheism is all about.

Since you have never done an objective assessment on the value of religion, and since you have already gone on record as saying there is no baby in the bathwater, I'm going to go with you have no objectivity on this subject.

Between 2007 to 2014 Americans who consider themselves Christian decreased by 8%, while those who claim no religious affiliations rose by a whopping 6.7% The biggest percentage of those fleeing religion (36%) are millennials. The reality is that Christianity is becoming old, and dying. Those are just facts - you know that objective reality we were talking about. You deny reality all you like. It doesn't stop being reality. Christianity is being abandoned. First the religion lost all of its political power during the Age of Reason, and now that the leaders of Christianity can no longer force citizens to affiliate themselves with Christianity, people are learning that they don't need Christianity to be happy, moral, and ethical.

Most of my millennial friends on FB follow this page. . .

This is not the sign of true happiness.
Nihilist Memes | Facebook


A good percentage of them are on some sort of psychotropic.

Happiness from a pill doesn't count.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out you yourself are taking Soma.

I'm sure it wouldn't. Suicide is higher among Mormons than any other demographic. Among Catholics, 63% have admitted to substance abuse. Spousal abuse is 4 times more likely among Baptists than any other belief system. Seems atheism isn't really the source of modern unhappiness, and religion doesn't seem to have any secret cure for unhappiness, and violence.

Wow. Thanks.

Post me the link would you, I'd be interested in reading that article.

That article didn't come from "an article". It came from researching suicide, and other statistics, from various sources. You see, that's the problem with you religious folks. No one ever taught you how to research, and think critically, and come to conclusions on your own. Rather it taught you how to read "acceptable" literature, magazines, and websites, and parrot what other people think.

Hopefully one day you will learn to actually think for yourself.

Oh no, I know how to research, I also know about the burden of proof.

It is not up to me to prove YOUR claim.

Either put up or shut up.

I am not denying your statistics, but, on the other hand, I find them highly suspect. You need to cite your source, or go away. I find those stats highly suspect.

 

[Czernobog]

Between 2007 to 2014 Americans who consider themselves Christian decreased by 8%, while those who claim no religious affiliations rose by a whopping 6.7% The biggest percentage of those fleeing religion (36%) are millennials. The reality is that Christianity is becoming old, and dying. Those are just facts - you know that objective reality we were talking about. You deny reality all you like. It doesn't stop being reality. Christianity is being abandoned. First the religion lost all of its political power during the Age of Reason, and now that the leaders of Christianity can no longer force citizens to affiliate themselves with Christianity, people are learning that they don't need Christianity to be happy, moral, and ethical.

Most of my millennial friends on FB follow this page. . .

This is not the sign of true happiness.
Nihilist Memes | Facebook


A good percentage of them are on some sort of psychotropic.

Happiness from a pill doesn't count.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out you yourself are taking Soma.

I'm sure it wouldn't. Suicide is higher among Mormons than any other demographic. Among Catholics, 63% have admitted to substance abuse. Spousal abuse is 4 times more likely among Baptists than any other belief system. Seems atheism isn't really the source of modern unhappiness, and religion doesn't seem to have any secret cure for unhappiness, and violence.

Wow. Thanks.

Post me the link would you, I'd be interested in reading that article.

That article didn't come from "an article". It came from researching suicide, and other statistics, from various sources. You see, that's the problem with you religious folks. No one ever taught you how to research, and think critically, and come to conclusions on your own. Rather it taught you how to read "acceptable" literature, magazines, and websites, and parrot what other people think.

Hopefully one day you will learn to actually think for yourself.

Oh no, I know how to research, I also know about the burden of proof.

It is not up to me to prove YOUR claim.

Either put up or shut up.

I am not denying your statistics, but, on the other hand, I find them highly suspect. You need to cite your source, or go away. I find those stats highly suspect.

I didn't say that it was. I was informing you that I can't post a single link that coalesces all of that data into a single, simple article, because no such article exists.

 

[ding]

What is the proof the things on that long list would not be present even without 'religion'?

I don't know. Can you show me which values atheism promotes and how they are promoting it?

If only there was a place they could gather once a week... say like on Sundays. Where they could promote the values of virtue and morality, and not force those at the meeting place to follow those those rules but leave it up to them to decide for themselves.

I don't think China, Russia, Albania, Cambodia, Cuba, etc. gave their people many choices. I don't know... atheist nations only murdered 200 million people in the 20th century, maybe we should give it another chance.

 

[MisterBeale]

Most of my millennial friends on FB follow this page. . .

This is not the sign of true happiness.
Nihilist Memes | Facebook


A good percentage of them are on some sort of psychotropic.

Happiness from a pill doesn't count.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out you yourself are taking Soma.

I'm sure it wouldn't. Suicide is higher among Mormons than any other demographic. Among Catholics, 63% have admitted to substance abuse. Spousal abuse is 4 times more likely among Baptists than any other belief system. Seems atheism isn't really the source of modern unhappiness, and religion doesn't seem to have any secret cure for unhappiness, and violence.

Wow. Thanks.

Post me the link would you, I'd be interested in reading that article.

That article didn't come from "an article". It came from researching suicide, and other statistics, from various sources. You see, that's the problem with you religious folks. No one ever taught you how to research, and think critically, and come to conclusions on your own. Rather it taught you how to read "acceptable" literature, magazines, and websites, and parrot what other people think.

Hopefully one day you will learn to actually think for yourself.

Oh no, I know how to research, I also know about the burden of proof.

It is not up to me to prove YOUR claim.

Either put up or shut up.

I am not denying your statistics, but, on the other hand, I find them highly suspect. You need to cite your source, or go away. I find those stats highly suspect.

I didn't say that it was. I was informing you that I can't post a single link that coalesces all of that data into a single, simple article, because no such article exists.

I suspected you were making shit up.

 

[ding]

abandon: to cease from maintaining, practicing, or using.

Yep, I'm not seeing it. I am still seeing way too many churches throughout the land. Maybe it is just wishful thinking of some who are too big of cowards to say out loud what they really want.

I have no such problem. I believe socialism is evil and should be wiped from the face of the planet. See? That's how it's done.

 

[Czernobog]

I'm sure it wouldn't. Suicide is higher among Mormons than any other demographic. Among Catholics, 63% have admitted to substance abuse. Spousal abuse is 4 times more likely among Baptists than any other belief system. Seems atheism isn't really the source of modern unhappiness, and religion doesn't seem to have any secret cure for unhappiness, and violence.

Wow. Thanks.

Post me the link would you, I'd be interested in reading that article.

That article didn't come from "an article". It came from researching suicide, and other statistics, from various sources. You see, that's the problem with you religious folks. No one ever taught you how to research, and think critically, and come to conclusions on your own. Rather it taught you how to read "acceptable" literature, magazines, and websites, and parrot what other people think.

Hopefully one day you will learn to actually think for yourself.

Oh no, I know how to research, I also know about the burden of proof.

It is not up to me to prove YOUR claim.

Either put up or shut up.

I am not denying your statistics, but, on the other hand, I find them highly suspect. You need to cite your source, or go away. I find those stats highly suspect.

I didn't say that it was. I was informing you that I can't post a single link that coalesces all of that data into a single, simple article, because no such article exists.

I suspected you were making shit up.

Not making shit up. Just citing various research. This is what I mean about critical thinking. It doesn't rely on "reading an article". It relies on wanting to learn, and taking the time to find answers, even if those answers require time, and effort to find the data.

For instance, here is a study on the suicide rates of youth among Mormons that helped me to put together the data for my claim about Mormons suicides.

As I said, my information didn't come from any single source. It came from extrapolating data from a number of sources.