Reagan: "the RIGHT to belong to a free trade union...

[GoneBezerk]

I recall Reagan fired all the UNION air traffic controllers that went on strike.....shut the fuck up.

 

[LoneLaugher]

So.... Whats your point? Everyone has the right to form a union here, Now in MI we have the right not to be forced to join a union....Lech Walesa supported Romney not Obama

Are you lying or are you uninformed?

The people of Michigan have always had the right NOT to be forced to join a union.

What percentage of workers innMichigan are, in fact, union members? Was this number 100% before their butthurt GOP legislators fucked them?

If it was a union shop you had to be in the union to work there , if there was no union of course you wouldn't have to be in a union...moron

That is not true. Learn the facts please.

 

[LoneLaugher]

There should be a right to join a union. And a right not to join a union and if you don't join a union, you shouldn't have to pay union dues.

Non union members do not pay union dues. They pay an agency fee. There is a difference. Please learn the facts.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Uh, actually get a job without joining a union is impossible in many workplaces unless one can fight in the parking lot.

There should be a right to join a union. And a right not to join a union and if you don't join a union, you shouldn't have to pay union dues.

Non union members do not pay union dues. They pay an agency fee. There is a difference. Please learn the facts.

 

[PratchettFan]

The dummy was building a strawman... PratchettFan knows nobody said that.

No, but I am not surprised you would hide behind that argument. When I was in school I went looking for a job. I was offered one but it required I join a union. I turned it down because I don't want to join a union. I had the right to not join and the employer had the right to run their business how they saw fit.

You are supporting the idea that the government should step in and tell businesses what kind of labor agreements they can negotiate and how they will run their hiring practices. Explain to me how that is not socialism.

You need to educate yourself on the right to work states... you dont realize it, but you support "right to work".

Texas has unions as well.... and it is a "right to work" state.

Thanks for trying.

Of course I support right to work. I am what you would call a socialist. I'm glad you finally acknowledge that you are as well. How's it going in the People's Republic of Texas?

 

[Moonglow]

A right to work state is a state in which you have no rights to get or keep a job, why? Because it is up to the employer wheather you work or not, and wages are generally lower in RTW states. A prevailing wage state is a state in which you can earn a better wage on certain jobs. It does not ensure that you have any rights to have a job or to keep it.

 

[PratchettFan]

If it was a union shop you had to be in the union to work there , if there was no union of course you wouldn't have to be in a union...moron

True. But the decision as to whether or not to be a union shop was not made by the union, it was made by the business. There was no law requiring the business be a union shop. So now the government is telling the business how they must operate.

I notice in your tag line you have a quote from Reagan about a limited government. How does this fit in with that quote?

No, that is actually false. Such decisions are not simply made by the business because the workers have the right to unionize. That right is protected by laws and businesses HAVE to respect that right. Such negotiations are NOT one sided. The business simply does not decide to be a closed shop. The union demands that as a condition and the businesses usually have to bend.

In that regard, the unions have special considerations under the law that gives them this power. Right to work states have simply went the other direction here. No longer does the union have the ability to demand that all future workers need to pay or join the union. I can guarantee that NO business has decided to be a closed shop because they want to. They do that because it is part of the agreement that the government has coerced them into with union legal protection.

With that said, the unions (really the workers) NEED those protections or companies would threaten and fire people when they unionized BUT that should not allow those agreements to force future workers into the contracts if they choose not to participate.


So far, not one person that is against right to work can give me a real reason that you should be forced to pay an entity that you do not want to be a part of. There is no other way to express this than servitude. It is not socialism to reign BACK some of the legal protections that unions have garnered over the years. Indeed, it needs to happen.

Socialism is precisely what it is. I am not arguing against it, by the way. I think it is proper for the government to set the rules of business and if Michigan thinks it appropriate, they should. I am not objecting to the new law. But that does not make it any less socialism. All you are saying is that you like socialism - when you perceive it to be in your favor.

 

[PratchettFan]

I recall Reagan fired all the UNION air traffic controllers that went on strike.....shut the fuck up.

Yes, he did. I guess that just goes to show you couldn't trust what he said.

 

[Star]

There should be a right to join a union. And a right not to join a union and if you don't join a union, you shouldn't have to pay union dues.

Non union members do not pay union dues. They pay an agency fee. There is a difference. Please learn the facts.

Are you saying that the MI Republican Legislature wrote a provision into their Right To Work For Less law mandating an Agency Fee?
.

 

[Star]

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Reagan: "the most elemental human rights—the right to belong to a free trade union...

​

Ronald Reagan-Address to the Nation on Christmas and the Situation in Poland (December 23, 1981) - YouTube


Ronald Reagan-Address to the Nation on Christmas and the Situation in Poland (December 23, 1981) - YouTube


President Reagan discusses the tragic events that have occurred in Poland at the hands of the Polish government, which he suspects is influenced by the Soviet Union. He warns the Polish government of severe consequences if they should continue to disregard the human rights of its citizens.

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You still have the right to join a union, and now people have the right NOT to join a union, and that's just busting yer chops. Makes me happy that you have busted chops. And remember when you cite Reagan, he's the dude that fired the entire union of ATC.. hilarious huh?


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5JSToyiyr8"]1981 Reagan fires air traffic controllers - YouTube[/ame]

Shame on you for calling your Republican messiah Ronald Reagan, just another Republican liar/hypocrite?


I was beginning to think you just didn't get it but-----but, thank goodness, you found your way to the same page Warren Buffet is on - “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning."


Obviously, you are a happy redistribution of wealth warrior.

Chart 1: Share of Total U.S. Income Accruing to the Top 10%, 1917-2006​

.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Has anyone said people don't have a right to join a union if they chose to?

He's just being a cementhead.

 

[LoneLaugher]

There should be a right to join a union. And a right not to join a union and if you don't join a union, you shouldn't have to pay union dues.

Non union members do not pay union dues. They pay an agency fee. There is a difference. Please learn the facts.

Are you saying that the MI Republican Legislature wrote a provision into their Right To Work For Less law mandating an Agency Fee?
.

No.

 

[Stephanie]

Reagan was an actor.

He didn't have his own thoughts; he just read what his handlers put in front of him and made it sound convincing.

Just like the Dear leader Obama eh...amazing

 

[Stephanie]

ANYONE figure out the point of the thread yet?

sheesh

they love Reagan only when they can use him..

 

[g5000]

.
Reagan: "the most elemental human rights—the right to belong to a free trade union...

​

Ronald Reagan-Address to the Nation on Christmas and the Situation in Poland (December 23, 1981) - YouTube


Ronald Reagan-Address to the Nation on Christmas and the Situation in Poland (December 23, 1981) - YouTube


President Reagan discusses the tragic events that have occurred in Poland at the hands of the Polish government, which he suspects is influenced by the Soviet Union. He warns the Polish government of severe consequences if they should continue to disregard the human rights of its citizens.

.

I think this is the video you were really looking for:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mwIqqWlSb8]Reagan-Bush for Right to Work - YouTube[/ame]

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[g5000]

"I wholeheartedly support Right to Work legislation and would like to see more states adopt such laws. The man who founded the American Federation of Labor, probably the greatest labor statesman this country’s ever known, Samuel Gompers, said that the right of a man to choose whether he should belong to a union or not, that was his right, and that no matter how wrong you thought he might be for not belonging or joining your union, it was his right to make that decision. The rank and file union members in the country today would support Right to Work. They feel their leadership has removed itself too far from them and is no longer representing their interests.”

Ronald Reagan

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[boilermaker55]

Oh, No. they have thrown down the golden calf.
All hell will break loose in the right wing nut factory.
ronnie reagan is not their hero now.

Reagan was an actor.

He didn't have his own thoughts; he just read what his handlers put in front of him and made it sound convincing.

 

[FA_Q2]

True. But the decision as to whether or not to be a union shop was not made by the union, it was made by the business. There was no law requiring the business be a union shop. So now the government is telling the business how they must operate.

I notice in your tag line you have a quote from Reagan about a limited government. How does this fit in with that quote?

No, that is actually false. Such decisions are not simply made by the business because the workers have the right to unionize. That right is protected by laws and businesses HAVE to respect that right. Such negotiations are NOT one sided. The business simply does not decide to be a closed shop. The union demands that as a condition and the businesses usually have to bend.

In that regard, the unions have special considerations under the law that gives them this power. Right to work states have simply went the other direction here. No longer does the union have the ability to demand that all future workers need to pay or join the union. I can guarantee that NO business has decided to be a closed shop because they want to. They do that because it is part of the agreement that the government has coerced them into with union legal protection.

With that said, the unions (really the workers) NEED those protections or companies would threaten and fire people when they unionized BUT that should not allow those agreements to force future workers into the contracts if they choose not to participate.


So far, not one person that is against right to work can give me a real reason that you should be forced to pay an entity that you do not want to be a part of. There is no other way to express this than servitude. It is not socialism to reign BACK some of the legal protections that unions have garnered over the years. Indeed, it needs to happen.

Socialism is precisely what it is. I am not arguing against it, by the way. I think it is proper for the government to set the rules of business and if Michigan thinks it appropriate, they should. I am not objecting to the new law. But that does not make it any less socialism. All you are saying is that you like socialism - when you perceive it to be in your favor.

Precive it as in my favor? I have no idea what you mean by that as I am not going to get a cookie for these laws. It is better for society in general, perhaps that is what you mean.

Anyway, if you are labeling this as socialism you're way off base anyways. The cornerstone of socialism is rooted in the communal ownership of property, something that RTW laws have nothing to do. These contracts are government enforced in the first place, dictated by existing government laws and built around current labor law. Everything in them is a matter of government already. What you are trying to claim is that a process protected by the government, instigated by the government and demanded by the government is somehow not socialism BUT it magically becomes so because you altered some of the precepts around them. That is not true. Unions are no more or less socialist in a RTW state as they are in a non RTW state.

Stop throwing around the buzzword socialist. It does not fit in this case.

 

[boilermaker55]

That is how the right wing (i.e. corporate rats work, kick your ass to the curb when they no longer have a use for you.),always has thought about workers and now with their "Fearless Leader".

ANYONE figure out the point of the thread yet?

sheesh

they love Reagan only when they can use him..

 

[Truthseeker420]

So.... Whats your point? Everyone has the right to form a union here, Now in MI we have the right not to be forced to join a union....Lech Walesa supported Romney not Obama

What Michigan law forced people to join unions?