Re-education camps are on the way.

[DKSuddeth]

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20031225_172.html

Fla. Gets Nation's 1st Faith-Based Prison
Florida Gets Nation's First Faith-Based Prison; Inmates From Nearly 26 Faiths Attend Dedication

The Associated Press

LAWTEY, Fla. Dec. 25 — Nearly 800 inmates from 26 faiths attended the dedication ceremony of what Gov. Jeb Bush called the nation's first faith-based prison a facility focused on encouraging the spirituality of inmates of all faiths.
Along with regular prayer sessions, the Lawtey Correctional Institution will offer religious studies, choir practice, religious counseling and other spiritual activities seven days a week. Participation is voluntary and inmates are free to transfer out.

"This is not just fluffy policy, this is serious policy," Bush told the crowd on Wednesday. "For the people who are skeptical about this initiative, I am proud that Florida is the home to the first faith-based prison in the United States."

Marlin Cliburn, inmate No. 575042, recently transferred to Lawtey, where he is serving 6 1/2 years for aggravated assault, auto theft and fleeing officers. "My life was headed down the wrong road," said Cliburn, a Baptist. "I've kind of seen the light. I've been screwing up my whole life. I see this as a turning point in my life."

Other prisons and programs have used religious thinking to try to turn inmates away from crime. The Prison Fellowship Ministries runs its Christ-centered InnerChange Freedom Initiative in prisons in Minnesota, Kansas, Iowa and Texas.

The idea of promoting God behind bars has a long history. From 1829 to 1913, for instance, the Eastern State Penitentiary in Philadelphia used a Quaker-inspired system in which prisoners were isolated from each other and made to perform labor in hopes of encouraging spiritual reflection and change.

Inmates at the Lawtey prison in north Florida were told more than a month ago that it would be completely converted to a faith-based institution, prompting 111 to transfer out. But their beds were quickly filled with volunteers from other prisons.

"We've developed a cocoon, a place where they can practice their faith and not have the severe negative pressures and interactions that naturally take place in some of our institutions," said Correction Secretary James Crosby Jr.

Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida, called the prison part of "a major constitutional showdown" over government funding for religious programs.

The ACLU is weighing the possibility of filing a lawsuit, waiting for the results of a test case challenging a state voucher program that gives students taxpayer money to attend religious schools.

But officials hope the program will lead to fewer repeat offenders.

The governor said about 38 percent of Florida's released inmates will be back in prison at some point.

"Wouldn't it be nice if we could figure out a way to lower that 38 percent closer to zero percent, for your family and your community?" Bush asked to rousing applause Wednesday.

During the dedication ceremony, many prisoners jumped to their feet and clapped in rhythm as a gospel singer sang "His Eye Is on the Sparrow." Some shouted "Sing it!" and "Amen!"

 

[jon_forward]

The ACLU are licking there chops at this. I would say that if the per deim per inmate stayed the same as "reg" prision why not let her rip and see if it turns a neg into something pos. it cant be a club med type prision. that would be my only problem, spend the same money as elsewhere and track those released to see if the return to prision was lower than the 38% quoted. if it is than the aclu needs to go stick there nose up someone else's ass.

 

[nbdysfu]

All I can say is "Lawtey! Lawtey! Lawtey!"

 

[Johnney]

far be it from me to speak badly of people who have found god and all that... but ive seen way too many who "find" god while they are prosoners only because it loosk good on their case files when it comes to parole. if its for real, then great, but you can never tell with them type of people. lets face it, you dont get to prison for being a nice guy.

 

[jon_forward]

this is true but I am not going to knock the concept if it #1 helps SOME inmates.....#2 lowers the rate of returning, 2 and 3 timers #3 cost the same money per deim as normal prisons.... you have to say that they are really thinking out of the box in Florida......

 

[Moi]

I myself seriously doubt all religions- I'm just an atheist at heart. However, if the people in these prisons are choosing to be there, rather than someone forcing it on them, than perhaps it will help. I doubt it will hurt. And, like someone said, if it halts recidivism because it's giving these guys/gals something else to believe in, I say go for it.

The ACLU may be salivating at it, but I haven't heard them grumbling about the all gay high school my tax dollars are supporting in NYC.

 

[DKSuddeth]

what everyones concern should be with this is the inevitability of this program being labeled a 'success' because a couple of inmates actually turned their life around and now we'll see these programs instituted around the country while the governers extoll the almighty virtues of christianity and how it saves people.

 

[jon_forward]

according to the post there are 26 faiths represented by almost 800 in-mates. also stated to be a faith based prisopn. where did they say only christianity ? The sky is not falling Dk.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
what everyones concern should be with this is the inevitability of this program being labeled a 'success' because a couple of inmates actually turned their life around and now we'll see these programs instituted around the country while the governers extoll the almighty virtues of christianity and how it saves people.

If it stops crime, helps inmates rescue their lives and thus helps their families and society, I don't think whether they are religious should be our concern. Whatever works is fine with me. This is a voluntary program...how can that possibly be a concern? And, I may add, where does it say that Christianity is the only faith being supported????

 

[Moi]

I've done a little research into this program and I was pretty happy to find that:

In the program, volunteers will act as personal mentors, offering support to each inmate both during their incarceration and as they settle back into the community after serving their sentences.

Inmates will participate in all the usual day-to-day prison activities, but during evenings and at weekends will undergo extra classes examining issues such as anger management, good parenting, and the effect of crime on victims, run by representatives from a variety of faiths including Islam, Judaism, and Christianity.

As of today, 26 religions will be represented among Lawtey's population. Belief in a god is not a requirement of the program. But a commitment to self-improvement is. Of the 819 prisoners housed at Lawtey when the scheme was announced in early December, less than 100 have indicated that they do not wish to take part; they have been moved to facilities elsewhere in the state.

Furthermore, there is some evidence that using faith can change the recidivism rates in a statistically important way. Right now, recidivism in Florida is roughly 50%. That's an unacceptably high number by anyone's standards.

But advocates of the scheme say there is proof that a faith-based approach to criminal rehabilitation can cut recidivism, citing the Iowa project - the Inner Change Freedom Initiative - as an example.

Results of a two-year study, released in June by the University of Pennsylvania and the conservative Manhattan Institute, showed that Inner Change graduates were 50 percent less likely to be arrested and 60 percent less likely to be re incarcerated than those who did not take part.

I'll admit that this program is different than the one in Florida because it's strictly Christian and requires church membership afterwards. But, it shows a light at the end of the tunnel. If the new program can have similar results that would be a good thing for all involved: society, the incarcerated and their families.

 

[jon_forward]

nice post moi, I feel the program has merit...kinda like a big bro thing. if we as a community stop putting our hand out to those that have fallen or strayed, what would become of them? better yet...what would become of us?

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by jon_forward
according to the post there are 26 faiths represented by almost 800 in-mates. also stated to be a faith based prisopn. where did they say only christianity ? The sky is not falling Dk.

I never said it was, to read that into my post is pure speculation on your point.

As to the original intent of my issue with this, and we've seen it before with other things, is that when there are successful occurrences with these kinds of pet projects it will inevitably result in other states initiating the same kinds of institutions. Eventually it will become mandatory, especially when groups belonging to the religious right go preaching about the enormous success that a handful of voluntary inmates provide it. If you think that my 'prediction' of this is another 'sky is falling' proclomation then I request that you dig in to your historical databanks and see how many times a government (fed, state, or local) project has gone from voluntary to mandatory.

 

[jon_forward]

If the program works, why not ? to be wary is one thing, to sound an alarm is another. the key word is "voluntary"..

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by jon_forward
If the program works, why not ? to be wary is one thing, to sound an alarm is another. the key word is "voluntary"..

why not? you see nothing wrong with a mandatory faith based prison system? how soon then should we institute it in government offices, or schools, maybe pre-school and kindergarten, right?

I've said it before, Apathy is the chosen way to be.

When will people understand that wary means either stopping something in its tracks or insituting safeguards BEFORE things get out of control, not trying to dial it back after the damage is done.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
As to the original intent of my issue with this, and we've seen it before with other things, is that when there are successful occurrences with these kinds of pet projects it will inevitably result in other states initiating the same kinds of institutions. Eventually it will become mandatory, especially when groups belonging to the religious right go preaching about the enormous success that a handful of voluntary inmates provide it. If you think that my 'prediction' of this is another 'sky is falling' proclomation then I request that you dig in to your historical databanks and see how many times a government (fed, state, or local) project has gone from voluntary to mandatory.

I don't think you are claiming that the sky is falling, but I fail to see any down side here- the program is a test case. In the only other test case out there, there was a significant contributing reduction to the recidivism rates. It's not just a handful of people.

I also have to say that I don't think the government mandating things is so out there so I'm not sure what the big deal here is. They are not putting one religion over another nor are they requiring anyone to participate. They are allowing those who want to participate the means to do so.

Why are you so adamant that the government is going to start mandating something inappropriate? I have yet to see evidence that it happens as often as you suggest. The people of the state have the right to handle their prisons as they see fit. If there are enough people to support this type of prison so be it.

 

[DKSuddeth]

but I fail to see any down side here

as it stands, I don't either.

the program is a test case

great, test cases are fine. let every state out there make a test case. In fact, If every state wants a VOLUNTARY faith based prison system, do it.

In the only other test case out there, there was a significant contributing reduction to the recidivism rates. It's not just a handful of people.

Personally, its not the numbers that matter to me even though I originally stated 'a few'. The higher success rate, hey, the better it is.

Why are you so adamant that the government is going to start mandating something inappropriate?

there are numerous cases out there, how far back do you need me to go? You are a smart person and you know that it happens even if at the time it seemed appropriate. We can't get focused on short term effects.

My bottom line is this....If a state wants a faith based prison then so be it as long as its voluntary. The minute you make it mandatory it no longer has any meaning. You can't make someone find god, or any other spiritual belief, if they don't want to. I thought we learned that back in the 1600's.

 

[jon_forward]

I agree, it HAS to be voluntary...that is the only way it will succeed

 

[nbdysfu]

My understanding of this is not that they are indoctrinating people into a religion. Rather councilors from Christian, Islamic, Judaic, and 23 other faiths, try to teach them what clinical psychologists have so far failed to do. The issue is not wether religion should be kept out of the prison system, but wether it should be encouraged for the inmates to follow their own religion.

DK's suggestion that this could be used by zealous politicians to claim christianity was the soul reason for improvement is serious, unless we realize that this is about encouraging people to be moral through their own faiths, not necessarily christianity or the current secularity.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
My bottom line is this....If a state wants a faith based prison then so be it as long as its voluntary. The minute you make it mandatory it no longer has any meaning. You can't make someone find god, or any other spiritual belief, if they don't want to. I thought we learned that back in the 1600's.

DK, I agree with you 100% on this statement. As I see it, this program is exactly what should be offered to inmates - it's voluntary, it costs approximately the same, and it looks as if it will reduce the likelihood of repeat offenses. As long as all religions are treated equally in this facility, I think it's a great idea.

And I share your wariness of voluntary gov't programs becoming mandatory. However, the way that courts rule on these types of programs, the burden of proof would be on the faith-based prisons to prove that they are abiding by the Constitution. This, I think, would keep anyone from attempting to overstep their bounds and make this type of program mandatory.

 

[injury]

26 faiths....I imagine the kitchen staff will be busy trying to drum up dishes that don't go against some of the religous beliefs.