RCC To Catholics: How To Convert A Wiccan

[Madeline]

Besides being condescending what's the problem?

You mean with the Pope's new "how to" for converting Wiccans? The world is on fire, the Papacy has still not dealt adequately with the child sex scandals, and the Pope has time to fritter away on THIS?

Dun that seem a tad odd, Father Time?

How do you "deal adequately with the child sex scandals" when one liberal host insist that it really not rape, rape (Whoopi Goldberg)? How do you deal with such a horrendous crime when many in society are promoting child - adult sex (including some in your faith)? I will tell you, IMHO, that you will never be able to "fix" those crimes. The only "adequate" punishment would be torture like that in the Inquisistion. Hopefully, that will not happen. They should be punished according to the laws of the country. Why people went through a church that preaches "forgiveness" seems to be "money" (they couldn't get as much if they went thru District Attornies).

This is so full of mistakes, I dunno where to begin.

I am a lapsed Catholic, logical4U. L-a-p-s-e-d. I dun represent all Catholics worldwide.

Whoopie Goldberg was an ass for what she said. So is the current crop of GOP congresscritters.

The Pope should open the Church's records, so that all wrong-doers can be found and prosecuted, and justice can be experienced by all the victims and the faithful.

Lawsuits for damages are the only way most victims can get justice, as in many jurisdictions, it is or was politically impossible for a DA to bring charges. Remember, the suits are not against the pedophile -- they are against the Church, for shielding him from view. Find me a DA who will arrest his local bishop, why donca.

 

[logical4u]

Okay.......I may be branded as a heretic for this, but here it goes.............

First off, Yeshua (Jesus to you Christians), ISN'T GOD!!!!!!!!!! When He was asked by His disciples when He would return, He stated "no one knows the day except The Father".

That means that if Yeshua WAS God, He'd know when He would come back.

Second...............the miracle on the Sea of Galilee wasn't so much a miracle as it was Yeshua teaching us that we can ALL do what He did. We just gotta learn physics, science and math, as well as remember who God is.

Remember when He told His disciples to come out on the water? Only 1 tried it, and that one person lost their faith as soon as Yeshua released his hand.

We are all a small piece of God. That's what Yeshua taught.

I just wish that we would all act more like it.

I agree with you ....except for the Yeshua is not G*d part. Yeshua, the Christ is part of the Holy Trinity. The three persons that Make the Trinity: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is probably the hardest mystery to understand about G*d. In Genesis, when they are discussing Adam & Eve eating the fruit, it is written as "they will become as 'We' are". Yeshua is THE SAVIOR, and no one goes to the Father, but through the Christ.

 

[Madeline]

Okay.......I may be branded as a heretic for this, but here it goes.............

First off, Yeshua (Jesus to you Christians), ISN'T GOD!!!!!!!!!! When He was asked by His disciples when He would return, He stated "no one knows the day except The Father".

That means that if Yeshua WAS God, He'd know when He would come back.

Second...............the miracle on the Sea of Galilee wasn't so much a miracle as it was Yeshua teaching us that we can ALL do what He did. We just gotta learn physics, science and math, as well as remember who God is.

Remember when He told His disciples to come out on the water? Only 1 tried it, and that one person lost their faith as soon as Yeshua released his hand.

We are all a small piece of God. That's what Yeshua taught.

I just wish that we would all act more like it.

I agree with you ....except for the Yeshua is not G*d part. Yeshua, the Christ is part of the Holy Trinity. The three persons that Make the Trinity: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is probably the hardest mystery to understand about G*d. In Genesis, when they are discussing Adam & Eve eating the fruit, it is written as "they will become as 'We' are". Yeshua is THE SAVIOR, and no one goes to the Father, but through the Christ.

How lovely it must be to have this sort of faith, logical4U. Are you as respectful of the beliefs of others?

 

[logical4u]

The "word of god" causes more problems than anything else. Look at the Middle East.

The problem in the middle east isnt the Word of God. It's the lack of it.

Tell ya what.......

Watch "The Book of Eli" and then get back to me.

The "fictional" movie where they kill all the religious leaders and ban religion? The one where even a heathen recognizes the Bible as words of power?

The middle east (islam) follows the word of Mohammed, not the word of G*d.

 

[logical4u]

You mean with the Pope's new "how to" for converting Wiccans? The world is on fire, the Papacy has still not dealt adequately with the child sex scandals, and the Pope has time to fritter away on THIS?

Dun that seem a tad odd, Father Time?

The problems of the world can only be solved by the Gospel of Jesus Christ changing the hearts of all the people.

The world will always have fires to put out. But the human soul is Eternal.

The Word of God can do more to fix the world than anything else in it.

Yanno I like ya, Avatar, but the "my way or the highway" nonsense almost all major religions foment nauseates me. To harm or kill because another person does not worship God as you do seems to me the height of moral insanity.

Madeline, how about naming those religions that "harm or kill because another person does not worship God", the ones that currently engage in that behavior. Lets' not imply, let's use facts.

 

[logical4u]

You mean with the Pope's new "how to" for converting Wiccans? The world is on fire, the Papacy has still not dealt adequately with the child sex scandals, and the Pope has time to fritter away on THIS?

Dun that seem a tad odd, Father Time?

How do you "deal adequately with the child sex scandals" when one liberal host insist that it really not rape, rape (Whoopi Goldberg)? How do you deal with such a horrendous crime when many in society are promoting child - adult sex (including some in your faith)? I will tell you, IMHO, that you will never be able to "fix" those crimes. The only "adequate" punishment would be torture like that in the Inquisistion. Hopefully, that will not happen. They should be punished according to the laws of the country. Why people went through a church that preaches "forgiveness" seems to be "money" (they couldn't get as much if they went thru District Attornies).

This is so full of mistakes, I dunno where to begin.

I am a lapsed Catholic, logical4U. L-a-p-s-e-d. I dun represent all Catholics worldwide.

Whoopie Goldberg was an ass for what she said. So is the current crop of GOP congresscritters.

The Pope should open the Church's records, so that all wrong-doers can be found and prosecuted, and justice can be experienced by all the victims and the faithful.

Lawsuits for damages are the only way most victims can get justice, as in many jurisdictions, it is or was politically impossible for a DA to bring charges. Remember, the suits are not against the pedophile -- they are against the Church, for shielding him from view. Find me a DA who will arrest his local bishop, why donca.

Having the church "open its records" would be like asking the USA government to list the times they broke the law. It would not happen. As far as the bishops, wouldn't that be aiding and abetting?

 

[logical4u]

Okay.......I may be branded as a heretic for this, but here it goes.............

First off, Yeshua (Jesus to you Christians), ISN'T GOD!!!!!!!!!! When He was asked by His disciples when He would return, He stated "no one knows the day except The Father".

That means that if Yeshua WAS God, He'd know when He would come back.

Second...............the miracle on the Sea of Galilee wasn't so much a miracle as it was Yeshua teaching us that we can ALL do what He did. We just gotta learn physics, science and math, as well as remember who God is.

Remember when He told His disciples to come out on the water? Only 1 tried it, and that one person lost their faith as soon as Yeshua released his hand.

We are all a small piece of God. That's what Yeshua taught.

I just wish that we would all act more like it.

I agree with you ....except for the Yeshua is not G*d part. Yeshua, the Christ is part of the Holy Trinity. The three persons that Make the Trinity: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is probably the hardest mystery to understand about G*d. In Genesis, when they are discussing Adam & Eve eating the fruit, it is written as "they will become as 'We' are". Yeshua is THE SAVIOR, and no one goes to the Father, but through the Christ.

How lovely it must be to have this sort of faith, logical4U. Are you as respectful of the beliefs of others?

If they can explain them, yes. I talk with people of many different Christian faiths, and find more common ground, than not. I enjoy speaking to people of other religions to try and understand their faith. Usually, there is no problem. When I ask some muslims tough questions, like, if Yeshua is considered one of your prophets, why don't you follow His teaching, they want to call names and tell me that I am wrong. If Abraham is considered your "forefather" why do you refer to his other descendents as pigs and monkeys (Hebrews) I just asked some questions. Why don't these "enlightened" people answer the questions?

If the beliefs are sinful, I will point it out to them. I do not reject them, I do not judge them, I just call it as I see it. I have a very good friend that I met when they were 'pushing drugs'. I enjoyed them as a person, but would tell them they were not making good choices. Eventually, they started throwing up the lining of their stomach and had to choose between life without drugs or death with drugs. They chose life! They tried to go to church but were constantly tortured by unseen forces. When they knew they would not make it without the Lord, they went to the church (not Catholic), and crawled up the steps, because their body was too heavy to stand. When they got to the top step, the wind started gusting so that they crawled to the door with their eyes closed. When they stood to open the door, it was extremely hard to open it. Once the door opened, the wind died and they felt normal. After a serious discussion with the Lord that night, they have never been the same. They are awesome! That was their story, not mine.

I like results, not pipe-dreams. I heard a quote from the Dali Lama after he was asked: what is the best religion. "What ever religion brings you closer to the truth", was his answer. I am not of that faith, but I can respect his faithfulness and his "wisdom" (a gift from the Holy Spirit which would mean the Lord knows the Dali Lama serves Him). If you can demonstrate how your religion improves people and their communities with them, I respect them. If you cannot demonstrate your religion is constructive and I can demonstrate it is destructive, I try to avoid it and those that follow it. If I have to be around the followers, I will be honest in my views. My views do not matter. It is the INDIVIDUAL's choices that are important.

 

[Madeline]

What an outstanding post, logical4U. I would rep you, if I had any left. I wish more people could see things as you do.

 

[strollingbones]

Marie, I am a lapsed Catholic and I also find much fault with the RCC...obviously, or else I'd still be there. But it's dogma is bible based....it's just that the RCC approaches the bible somewhat differently than most mainstream Protestant faiths. (Or did, when I was young, but I am fairly sure things have stayed the same on this.)

First of all, there's a separate RCC bible, and one reason why is, that bible is heavily annotated with interpretations of the passages. The RCC tends to direct an adherent to various prayers, cathecisms, missals, etc. and expects them to depend pretty heavily on clergy to teach them the bible, rather than delving in on their own.

I dun think the RCC is any more ridiculous in its dogma than any protestant faith, and though the RCC teaches that theirs is the only path to God, I dun think that's true, either. I posted the video because I find some of what the current Pope turns his attention to a tad goofy. All the evil in this world, and he's worried about the etiquette of harrassing Wiccans?

Actually, there is much RCC dogma that is NOT Bible based. Prayer to Mary or saints, where is that? That Mary remained a virgin beyond the birth of Jesus, where is that? Mary had additional children according to the Bible. The whole church hierarchy with the Pope and Bishops and celibate Nuns and Priests.......where is that? The RCC is largely built on traditions rather than Scripture. Just my two cents as a lapsed Baptist.

Where does it say Mary had additional children?

james the brother of jesus

While James grew up in the same house with Jesus in Nazareth, he was miles apart from Jesus' thinking for the early part of his life.

James did not grow up a believer (John 7:5). Though Jesus and James had the same mother, Jesus was the son not of Joseph, as James was, but of God the Father Himself—a fact that wouldn't fully sink into James'mind for years. It wasn't until Jesus' resurrection and His appearance to James and the disciples that James finally really understood who his half brother was.

After Jesus' instructions recorded in Acts 1:4, James accompanied the apostles, the women who had followed Jesus, his mother and his brothers to the upper room, where they prayed and waited patiently for the gift of the Holy Spirit (verse 14). James was present when God sent the Holy Spirit to the small group, at which point the New Testament Church was born (Acts 1:14; 2:1).

From Jesus' resurrection on, James gave himself entirely to God and soon became an important figure in the early Church. His role was so important that Peter told others to report to James of his miraculous release from prison (Acts 12:17; Galatians 1:19). He apparently became the overseeing pastor of the Jerusalem church, because in Acts 15:13-21 we see him making the final declaration during this early ministerial conference.

The apostle Paul, after his conversion, met with Peter and James before seeing any of the other apostles (Galatians 1:18-19). Later we see James advising Paul, and Paul then acting on that advice (Acts 21:18-26).

James: Half Brother of Jesus > The Good News : January/February 2003

 

[Madeline]

But, but, but...I ASKED if Mary had any other kids and was bitchslapped into next Tuesday in Religious Instruction when I was like 9.

Why is this not more widely known?

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Actually, there is much RCC dogma that is NOT Bible based. Prayer to Mary or saints, where is that? That Mary remained a virgin beyond the birth of Jesus, where is that? Mary had additional children according to the Bible. The whole church hierarchy with the Pope and Bishops and celibate Nuns and Priests.......where is that? The RCC is largely built on traditions rather than Scripture. Just my two cents as a lapsed Baptist.

Where does it say Mary had additional children?

james the brother of jesus

While James grew up in the same house with Jesus in Nazareth, he was miles apart from Jesus' thinking for the early part of his life.

James did not grow up a believer (John 7:5). Though Jesus and James had the same mother, Jesus was the son not of Joseph, as James was, but of God the Father Himself—a fact that wouldn't fully sink into James'mind for years. It wasn't until Jesus' resurrection and His appearance to James and the disciples that James finally really understood who his half brother was.

After Jesus' instructions recorded in Acts 1:4, James accompanied the apostles, the women who had followed Jesus, his mother and his brothers to the upper room, where they prayed and waited patiently for the gift of the Holy Spirit (verse 14). James was present when God sent the Holy Spirit to the small group, at which point the New Testament Church was born (Acts 1:14; 2:1).

From Jesus' resurrection on, James gave himself entirely to God and soon became an important figure in the early Church. His role was so important that Peter told others to report to James of his miraculous release from prison (Acts 12:17; Galatians 1:19). He apparently became the overseeing pastor of the Jerusalem church, because in Acts 15:13-21 we see him making the final declaration during this early ministerial conference.

The apostle Paul, after his conversion, met with Peter and James before seeing any of the other apostles (Galatians 1:18-19). Later we see James advising Paul, and Paul then acting on that advice (Acts 21:18-26).

James: Half Brother of Jesus > The Good News : January/February 2003

The passages you site have additional commentary not stated in scripture at all, also in the language used in those days cousins and brothers were used inteerchangably.
Here is a good article..............
http://www.catholic.com/library/Bad_Aramaic_Made_Easy.asp

 

[Madeline]

The problems of the world can only be solved by the Gospel of Jesus Christ changing the hearts of all the people.

The world will always have fires to put out. But the human soul is Eternal.

The Word of God can do more to fix the world than anything else in it.

Yanno I like ya, Avatar, but the "my way or the highway" nonsense almost all major religions foment nauseates me. To harm or kill because another person does not worship God as you do seems to me the height of moral insanity.

Madeline, how about naming those religions that "harm or kill because another person does not worship God", the ones that currently engage in that behavior. Lets' not imply, let's use facts.

It is not the religion itself that harms and kills, logical4U. It's people. In Ireland, different flavors of christians have been hammering each other for centuries. In Israel, there have been riots between secular and religious Jews.

People, logical4U, have a few design flaws.

 

[konradv]

Actually, there is much RCC dogma that is NOT Bible based. Prayer to Mary or saints, where is that? That Mary remained a virgin beyond the birth of Jesus, where is that? Mary had additional children according to the Bible. The whole church hierarchy with the Pope and Bishops and celibate Nuns and Priests.......where is that? The RCC is largely built on traditions rather than Scripture. Just my two cents as a lapsed Baptist.

Where does it say Mary had additional children?

james the brother of jesus

While James grew up in the same house with Jesus in Nazareth, he was miles apart from Jesus' thinking for the early part of his life.

James did not grow up a believer (John 7:5). Though Jesus and James had the same mother, Jesus was the son not of Joseph, as James was, but of God the Father Himself—a fact that wouldn't fully sink into James'mind for years. It wasn't until Jesus' resurrection and His appearance to James and the disciples that James finally really understood who his half brother was.

After Jesus' instructions recorded in Acts 1:4, James accompanied the apostles, the women who had followed Jesus, his mother and his brothers to the upper room, where they prayed and waited patiently for the gift of the Holy Spirit (verse 14). James was present when God sent the Holy Spirit to the small group, at which point the New Testament Church was born (Acts 1:14; 2:1).

From Jesus' resurrection on, James gave himself entirely to God and soon became an important figure in the early Church. His role was so important that Peter told others to report to James of his miraculous release from prison (Acts 12:17; Galatians 1:19). He apparently became the overseeing pastor of the Jerusalem church, because in Acts 15:13-21 we see him making the final declaration during this early ministerial conference.

The apostle Paul, after his conversion, met with Peter and James before seeing any of the other apostles (Galatians 1:18-19). Later we see James advising Paul, and Paul then acting on that advice (Acts 21:18-26).

James: Half Brother of Jesus > The Good News : January/February 2003

Actually, none of those passages explicitly state that James or any other of Jesus' brothers and sisters were the children of Mary. Tradition in the RCC holds that they were the children of Joseph by a previous marriage.

 

[logical4u]

Actually, there is much RCC dogma that is NOT Bible based. Prayer to Mary or saints, where is that? That Mary remained a virgin beyond the birth of Jesus, where is that? Mary had additional children according to the Bible. The whole church hierarchy with the Pope and Bishops and celibate Nuns and Priests.......where is that? The RCC is largely built on traditions rather than Scripture. Just my two cents as a lapsed Baptist.

Where does it say Mary had additional children?

james the brother of jesus

While James grew up in the same house with Jesus in Nazareth, he was miles apart from Jesus' thinking for the early part of his life.

James did not grow up a believer (John 7:5). Though Jesus and James had the same mother, Jesus was the son not of Joseph, as James was, but of God the Father Himself—a fact that wouldn't fully sink into James'mind for years. It wasn't until Jesus' resurrection and His appearance to James and the disciples that James finally really understood who his half brother was.

After Jesus' instructions recorded in Acts 1:4, James accompanied the apostles, the women who had followed Jesus, his mother and his brothers to the upper room, where they prayed and waited patiently for the gift of the Holy Spirit (verse 14). James was present when God sent the Holy Spirit to the small group, at which point the New Testament Church was born (Acts 1:14; 2:1).

From Jesus' resurrection on, James gave himself entirely to God and soon became an important figure in the early Church. His role was so important that Peter told others to report to James of his miraculous release from prison (Acts 12:17; Galatians 1:19). He apparently became the overseeing pastor of the Jerusalem church, because in Acts 15:13-21 we see him making the final declaration during this early ministerial conference.

The apostle Paul, after his conversion, met with Peter and James before seeing any of the other apostles (Galatians 1:18-19). Later we see James advising Paul, and Paul then acting on that advice (Acts 21:18-26).

James: Half Brother of Jesus > The Good News : January/February 2003

Where does i say that Mary gave birth to James (or any other child)? Do you have the chapter and verse?

 

[logical4u]

Yanno I like ya, Avatar, but the "my way or the highway" nonsense almost all major religions foment nauseates me. To harm or kill because another person does not worship God as you do seems to me the height of moral insanity.

Madeline, how about naming those religions that "harm or kill because another person does not worship God", the ones that currently engage in that behavior. Lets' not imply, let's use facts.

It is not the religion itself that harms and kills, logical4U. It's people. In Ireland, different flavors of christians have been hammering each other for centuries. In Israel, there have been riots between secular and religious Jews.

People, logical4U, have a few design flaws.

Ahhh Madeline! You still will not be intellectually honest and state that many muslims (and a few Hindus) will "harm or kill" to convert or keep a follower from converting to another faith. Why is it that you will only focus on Christians?

 

[Madeline]

logical4U wrote:

Ahhh Madeline! You still will not be intellectually honest and state that many muslims (and a few Hindus) will "harm or kill" to convert or keep a follower from converting to another faith. Why is it that you will only focus on Christians?

I only know one Muslim IRL, logical4U and no Hindus at all. As for killing a child to prevent conversion, do you really think there is any sin that only a non-christian commits?

 

[logical4u]

logical4U wrote:

Ahhh Madeline! You still will not be intellectually honest and state that many muslims (and a few Hindus) will "harm or kill" to convert or keep a follower from converting to another faith. Why is it that you will only focus on Christians?

I only know one Muslim IRL, logical4U and no Hindus at all. As for killing a child to prevent conversion, do you really think there is any sin that only a non-christian commits?

No, I think that Christians commit every sin known to men and probably some that aren't know to men. I find your direction, pointed, against Christians. I have never seen you include ANY other religion included in committing ANY sin (against their own, or Christians), without being pinned into an admission.
Today, in this place in time, it is not the Christian faiths that are the violent 'sinners'. Targeting Christians (in your words) while ignoring those other religions makes it seem as though, you too, given the opportunity would commit violence and harm against Christians. It does not make for an open and intellectually honest discussion.

I will ask you what I have asked before (not sure if I asked you before or not): What other way of life has been as beneficial to a large percentage of mankind as Christianity? What other way of life encourages people to support themselves, their neighbors, and their community? I can give examples of how "Christianity" acknowledged and protected individual rights, and raised the standard of living for Christian community after Christian community? Can you present examples of any other system that has done that (religious)?

 

[Madeline]

There's a terrible cost associated with religion, logical4U. Only you can decide whether it is worth paying.

* The "my way or the highway" routine, that leads even members of the same faith but different sects to wage war on one another. Jews, Hindus, christians, Muslims....this is likely a universal problem. Even the Amish are hostile to non-Amish people, peaceful as they are.

* The interference in politics by religious organizations with too much power and too much money.

* The common belief that clergy are "morally superior", church property should not be taxed, church elders should never be brought to justice, etc.

Are we better off, as humans, if we have an official group think on ethics? Of course. Are we better off if some group is formed to enforce that ethical code?

Mayhaps not so much.

Find me a nation of atheists and we'll compare.

 

[logical4u]

There's a terrible cost associated with religion, logical4U. Only you can decide whether it is worth paying.

* The "my way or the highway" routine, that leads even members of the same faith but different sects to wage war on one another. Jews, Hindus, christians, Muslims....this is likely a universal problem. Even the Amish are hostile to non-Amish people, peaceful as they are.

* The interference in politics by religious organizations with too much power and too much money.

* The common belief that clergy are "morally superior", church property should not be taxed, church elders should never be brought to justice, etc.

Are we better off, as humans, if we have an official group think on ethics? Of course. Are we better off if some group is formed to enforce that ethical code?

Mayhaps not so much.

Find me a nation of atheists and we'll compare.

Still, you will not have the "open" discussion. It is closeted against Christians while giving every other religion a pass... your atheist nation: communist, check the violence that happened when there was supposedly "no god".
Why do you "hate" Christians so much?

"* The "my way or the highway" routine" this is done when there is absolute power (Christianity calls every person to a "personal" relationship with the Lord, no one else is "necessary", the variety of faiths are from people concentrating their religious learning to specifics). The "highway" is being robbed (legally of course) of everything that person or their family has worked for or produced. It is always in the name of _____ (usually something that causes warm and fuzzy thoughts)

"* The interference in politics by religious organizations with too much power and too much money." Religious organizations are made of "people". Are you saying that a group of people with similar interests should not be allowed to have representation or influence?

"* The common belief that clergy are "morally superior", church property should not be taxed, church elders should never be brought to justice, etc." The "clergy" are people. There is not one that is not tempted by sin. The clergy (typically) has studied their faith more intensively, than the average person sitting in the pew. If the Holy Spirit has blessed them, they may have one or more of the powers that were given the disciples. The church property was not taxed, primarily because the "church property" was a joint ownership of the congregation. It would be like taxing government property.


Previously, the thing and people that "enforced ethical codes" was the "law". Not so much any more. It is used to give the corrupt politicians more power and the "people", less (of everthing from freedom to money).

Are you afraid to say that muslims (some) will hurt or kill to force others to join their religion? Are you afraid to mention there are a few Hindu groups that are also doing this?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Wanna know why the "my way or the highway" works? Because it keeps people coming back to your way of understanding God, and because you are the interpreter, they give you the money as well.

Personally? I took the "make a friend in Yeshua" literally. Know what I found out then? Good "Christians" get nervous around you because you're the fly in the ointment that could blow their whole Ponzi scheme.

I don't mind Christians. Matter of fact, there's a few I call friend. What I DO mind however, is when they tell me their own little interpretation of God, and then tell me what I should and shouldn't do.

I'm a Taoist who happens to also enjoy studying Judaic theology. Seems that there is a lot more similarities between the two than there are differences. Interestingly enough, if a person decides to become a B'nei Noach" (which means Son of Noah), all ya really gotta do is follow the 7 Noahide commandments, recognize that there is only 1 God and that is HaShem (one of His many Names).

Why invent another religion? I've got several that serve me quite well, and, they show me a bit more about who God is each and every time I decide to study it.