CDZ RCC Podcast: So what happened?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Andylusion, Jan 22, 2017.

  1. Andylusion

    Andylusion Gold Member

    Jan 23, 2014
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    Central Ohio

    Over the last few months, a bunch of people have been asking, how could this happen. While I’ve mostly remained silent during this election cycle, I do have my opinion on why things turned out this way.

    Now, part of my inexperience as a podcaster, and I had several things I wanted to talk about, that had nothing to do with the election, and I felt like people would be asking ‘why are you talking about that, while all of this is going on?’. I think going forward, I’ll just talk about what I want to talk about, and let you decide how relevant it is.

    That said, another problem was, there really wasn’t anyone that I “wanted” to be president. There were no winners in the lineup. There was a loser, but no real winners. There wasn’t anyone that truly represented my views. I had my issues with Trump, and at the same time, Hillary was/is a criminal, so I couldn’t support her either.

    But what was really interesting to me, was some of the reactions I got from people on the forums. During an election cycle, as I’ve said before, people lose their minds and speak out of blind unthinking emotion. I was on the forums and this guy screamed at me “Tell me what Trump is going to do for you! Huh? How is Trump going to improve your life?”

    At first, this knocked me back a bit, because I have never thought that way. Who thinks in these terms? People sitting around saying to themselves “I’ll vote for so-and-so because he’ll fix my life”? Really?

    I have never thought this way. I’ve never voted based on “This guy will fix everything for me, and make my life better”. If anything I vote for who I think will screw up everything less. And quite frankly if you are sitting around, voting for someone because “This guy is going to make my life better…..” First your life isn’t going to get better, and second, that’s insane.

    Another forum post screamed “So Trump is who you want to be like? Trump is your role model?” Again, I’m in shock. A role model? Seriously? How many thousands of politician jokes are there? Which one ends with “…and that’s who I want to be like”?

    In addition to that, my horror is, are these people suggesting that who they are voting for is their role model? Really? So Bill Clinton, screwing everything that moved, cheating non-stop on his wife, abusing interns and every female within arms reach…. that’s what you want to be like? That’s your role model? Did you miss where when Yasser Arafat was in the Rose Garden, waiting to talk about middle east peace, he was playing poke the intern with a cigar?

    This is crazy. Very few, if any, people in politics are people who I want to be like.
    There’s a famous meme on the internet. You may recognize this:

    Candidate A – He was kicked out of office twice, sleeps until noon, used opium in college and drinks a quart of whiskey every evening.
    Candidate B – He is a decorated war hero. He’s a vegetarian, doesn’t smoke, drinks an occasional beer and never cheated on his wife.

    The first guy was Winston Churchill, and the other was Adolf Hitler.

    I remember back in 2000, there was this preacher guy who was talking about all these mainstream churches, which were proclaiming “Bush is our man”. And he said something I never forgot, and agree with completely. For you Christians out there, listen there is only ONE man for us. Jesus Christ the Lord. There is no other man. There is no politician that we should be putting our hope and trust in.

    Just say that out loud. Say: “This politicians is our hope”. If you can say that and not laugh, there’s something wrong.

    But nevertheless, Trump with all his faults, is as far as we know from the information today, is not a criminal with a 30 year history of crime and corruption, and scandals.

    It always cracks me up when I point out that Hillary is a serial liar, and people say “Yeah but she supports my views. Huh? If she’s a liar, and you admit that, how do you know what views she has? How do you know what she truly supports and doesn’t?

    But beyond that, I had a guy ask me very sincerely, what is so bad about Hillary? He honestly didn’t know. I started to explain to him all the problems I have with Hillary, outside of her policy positions which of course she ‘honestly’ believes….. nyuck nyuck nyuck…

    Now I never watch debates to begin with. I don’t even own a TV, though I suppose it’s streamed somewhere on the internet. But debates have no value to me at all.

    I actually got into an argument with a guy, who claimed you can’t possibly say you are an informed voter if you don’t watch the debates…. really? Since when is watching the debates about being informed? Name the person who actually finished watching the debates and said “Oh I am so enlightened now!” When did that ever happen?

    You realize that literally tens of thousands voted for Batman….. oh golly, I hope they watched all the movies…. wouldn’t want them to be uninformed……. SERIOUSLY!??!

    I created a thread with a poll question “Did the debates, any of them, change your mind about anything?”

    Answers were "Yes", "No", "No but in other elections it has", and "No, and they are pointless."

    I got 12 that said no, 5 said no, and they are pointless, and 1 guy said no but in other elections it has.

    Debates are not about being informed, and never were. You want to know why we have debates? It’s the same reason people watch ‘reality TV’. It’s to see the blow ups, and zingers, and fights.

    Just go back and look at highlights of previous debates. Do you ever see clips where they explain the brilliance of a policy, and all the people had this eye-wide jaw-drop “ah-ha!” moment? Of course not.

    10 Memorable Moments in Presidential Debate History

    There’s the Quayle debate where he compared himself to JFK, and the other guy goes “Senator, I knew JFK, JFK was a friend of mine, Senator, you’re no JFK”.

    OOOOOoooo Bazinga! He got him! BURN!…. really? That’s why people watch debates. Not to be informed, more like be entertained.

    Of course everyone know the famous Reagan, being asked about age, and saying “I will not make age an issue in this campaign. I will not use for political purposes, my opponents youth and inexperience.”

    ZING! Nailed him! Smack down!

    Even in this recent debate, what did we all remember? The brilliant policy positions? “It’s a good thing this man isn’t in charge of the laws of this country” “Yeah because you’d be in jail”.

    BURN! Bazinga!

    And politicians know this, that’s why they say stuff like this. They know all you are going to remember, is that great zap you nailed the other person with. Trump has no intention of putting Hillary in prison, but it makes for a great sound bite, and everyone cheers.

    Similarly, what is Hillary zinger? “When they go low, you go high!”… Remember this?

    I can hear you now, if you don’t watch the debates, how did you hear this? I was on my break time, which is 10PM (I work second shift), and the one day in 6 months I turn on the radio, it’s the presidential debates. Unbelievable.

    At any rate, this ticked me off…. which gets back to my problem with Hillary. When has this woman ever gone high? Which did she ever take the high road? When was that?

    When she told the widows of murdered embassy staff in Benghazi, that their loved ones were killed over an obscure amateur video no one anywhere, had ever heard of, and she knew for a fact wasn’t true?

    Or was it when she her women abusing husband, and lied about his victims to discredit them? When has she ever taken the high road on anything?

    So many people don’t remember the Clinton’s when they first came to power in 1992. Remember the first thing they did was tell everyone they were going to be the most ethical administration in history. You remember this?

    I said this before, it’s like putting the word “sport” on the side of a car. If you need to write the word “Sport” on the side of the car…. then it’s not a sports car. No one walks up to a Lamborghini, and says “oh nice commuter car. Perfect for soccer moms”. Everyone knows just by looking at it, that it’s a sports car.

    The cars that have “sport” written on the side, are cars that not sports cars. That Geo Metro Sport, has sport on the side, because you wouldn’t know otherwise.

    Similarly, if you have to tell everyone “we’re going to have an ethical administration”, it’s because you are not, and you need to tell them you will, to fool them.

    25 and counting: Hillary’s huge scandal list explodes

    And what was the first thing they did in office? Anyone remember?

    They fired the travel office, and replaced everyone with personal friends and supporters. Moreover, they knew that would look extremely corrupt, so they trumped-up false charges against the travels office staff.

    Now years later, we found out that personal memos from Hillary Clinton, directed the firing of the staff, and that the people who replaced them were personal friends and supporters of Hillary Clinton.

    Then we had Whitewater, which was a corruption scandal involving a banker who used a fraudulent land deal, to make millions. You can’t do that without help from investors who launder the money, two of which were Bill and Hillary Clinton.

    You had Troopergate, where Bill Clinton had Arkansas state troopers get sexual liaisons for Billy. Talk about your tax dollars at work.

    How about Filegate, where Hillary Clinton had a personal friend, with FBI files on hundreds of political opponents. While it’s still unclear exactly how the files ended up in the hands of Craig Livingstone, a bar room bouncer. What we do know is that Livingstone had absolutely no qualification for being in White House security, and that he volunteered for the Clinton campaign, and his mother was a close personal friend of Hillary.

    Then there’s Vince Foster’s death, which was ruled a suicide, even though there was no blood at the scene. I don’t know how anyone can shoot themselves, and have no blood, but regardless of your view of his death, the fact remains that Hillary Clinton’s personal staff were viewed by multiple witnesses, going into Vince Fosters office, and removing stuff. This magically happened on the exact night of his death. Lucky guess at which day to raid someone’s office I suppose.

    Then there was Chinagate. Where the Clinton’s collected money from Chinese front companies, whose backers were military of China. In exchange for the money, they Chinese got trade deals for high-end technology, that ultimately dramatically improved their military capability. Moreover, details have come up that, Hillary specifically directed the Secretary of Commerce, to sell open seats on the trade mission to China. By the way, who was that? Ron Brown, who conveniently died in a plane crash in Croatia when the scandal started to break.

    The Rose Law firm billing records, was another scandal. While this is connected to the Whitewater scandal, in that they were investigating the services provided by the Rose Law Firm, to facilitate the Whitewater fraud. But Hillary claimed she had no involvement in Whitewater. Thus the investigators subpoenaed the Rose Law firms billing records, which shockingly… disappeared. Then after a deal with investigators was negotiated, where Hillary had immunity, again…. shockingly…. they appeared…. in the white house. Later the FBI found Hillary’s finger prints on the billing records.

    Then you have the mystery speeches. Over two years, Hillary and Billy Clinton, raked in $21 Million dollars for giving speeches. We don’t know where. We don’t to whom. And we don’t know what was said. But $21 Million dollars for a few speeches, is at best concerning. At worst, is a bribe.

    Then there’s the cattle futures scandal. So the largest employer in Arkansas, and a major donator to the Clintons, is Tyson foods. Tyson benefited form actions the Arkansas government had taken. Hillary was a friend of James Blair, who was outside counsel, and direct friend of Robert Bone, a former Tyson executive. Hillary invested just $1,000 into cattle futures, and managed to magical make $100,000 in profit, in just 8 months. Just like that. Wow... lucky investing!

    You have Bimbogate, where Hillary personally directed smear campaigns against the women who claimed Bill Clinton had abused them.

    You have Foundation-gate, where people who donated significant amounts to the Clinton Foundation, were given positions in the Clinton government, including an appointment of completely unqualified people to the State Department.

    You have the sheer number of dead people, and criminals. Over 33 people tied to the Clinton’s have died since the 1980s, and over 500 that have pleaded the 5th, or fled the country.

    You have Pardongate, where presidential pardons were given out to those who gave support, or money, to the Hillary Clinton Senate campaign in 2000.

    And lastly, we have the email scandal, and Russian hacking. But I’ll save that for another time.

    But here we have clear evidence of 30 years of corruption and scandals with this women.

    Despite how much the media fawned over Hillary, the average people really didn’t have that much interest in her.

    Even so, I was surprised by the outcome as well, because all the polls showed Trump didn’t have a chance. Of course the polls have been wrong so often lately, one wonders why we ever pay attention to them. Brexit was supposed to be shot down, and it was passed. The French upset threw everyone for a loop. And the Columbian peace deal was shot down, against the polls. 2016 has been the year of false polls.

    But after the election, when I started thinking about it, I was less and less surprised. Everyone should have seen this coming. Remember in 2008, when everyone assumed Hillary was the defacto leader, and out of nowhere comes this no-name guy, who literally rolled Hillary out of the way, like she was nothing.

    Then fast forward 8 years, a 200 year-old mummified Communist, with a mad scientist hair cut and coke bottle glasses, almost rolled Hillary away again.

    It’s undeniable that people hated Hillary. In 2008, one of my neighbors here in Columbus Ohio, had a “No Hillary” sign in his front yard. Two states over, people express their hatred of Hillary.

    However, I have another reason why I think Trump won. It has to do with the mentality and attitude in the country.

    I remember this starting to happen around 2011. Every single time I expressed an opinion that differed from the Obama policy, I was instantly accused of being racists. Every time I disagreed with someone’s views, I was accused of being sexist.

    “Well I don’t think raising the minimum wage is all that great…” Bigot!

    “Well the equal pay laws may have a negative effect on….” Sexist!

    “Well the affordable care act hasn’t had the results…” RACISTS!

    And I got to the point where…. I didn’t care anymore. Some people would scream bigot, and I’d say “…and?” They would scream sexist, and I’d respond “…so?” They would yell racists and I would respond “what are you going to do about it?”.

    At some point when you attack people relentlessly, the result isn’t that they back down, it’s that they no longer care. You don’t win the debate, you end up with a debater who doesn’t care what you think anymore.

    At first, I thought it was just me, and I have a style of conversation that invites criticism, which might be true. But I started to notice other people saying the same thing. In fact, we have a number of memes, that highlight this. One called Liberal Debate Tactics says “First ignore facts. Second blame Bush. Third accuse them of racism, and run away”.


    Why did someone come up with that? Because that’s what we have experience. I personally have experienced exactly this happening to me, when I talk to people I disagree with.

    There is a parade video, is based on the Lego movie, of the song “everything is awesome.” titled “everything is racist”.

    Now I thought back then when I started seeing this, that this is going to bite these people in the butt. When you cause an entire group of voters, not care anymore, because you cry wolf at everything, that’s going to come back around.

    And it did. I remember when the first accusations about Trump came out, and people started screaming about it, before I even heard what Trump said, my first reaction was…. oh it’s nothing. They have been accusing me of that for the last 5 years.

    Sure enough, the more they screamed, and foamed at the mouth, the higher his poll numbers got. Every time they screamed another accusation, his poll numbers went up another 2 points. Every claim of racism, and sexism, and bigotry, his support went up and up and up.

    Why? Because they have been attacking us with all those false allegations for 5 years now. Every time someone gave a different opinion, they screamed accusations. Now we don’t care.

    By the way, let that be a lesson for all of us. Be very careful when you accuse someone of anything. Make sure you are doing it from reason and fact, not emotional spitting. Don’t be accusing your spouse, or your kids, when you don’t know for sure. Every single time you do that, you lose credibility with everyone.

    Nevertheless, I think that this is how we ended up where we are. Now whether Trump causes problems or not, I don’t know. I can only hope he does as little damage as possible. If we can repeal Obama care, that would be a good first step, but I wager our government will only replace it with something worse. At least this is the nail in the coffin of Hillary, and Billy Clinton. There is no come back from this defeat.

    Good riddance to bad couple of politicians.
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1

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