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I have no problem with a strong an overwhelming condemnation of Nazi hate groups. When the protest turn violent it is a problem and ANTIFA has definatley crossed lines. They are also being condemned by most sane people from both political partiesNazis or the KKK are a tiny minority, but the HUGE backlash against them is what scares me more. The group dynamics of liberals is similar to a Nazi rally in 1933. The anti fascist energy and the whole mindset is exactly like proto nazi Germany and the irony of that makes me want to cry. And these creeps don't get it, whoosh over their bleedin' heads.It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.
I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.
I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.
I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.
In case you haven't checked, Poland doesn't.If the majority of polish people don't like people of other races then why does your country allow immigration or even visitation from these groups? And why would you live in America which is a melting pot of multiracial and multicultural peopleThe don't keep out, they strictly vet. But you are ignoring my point and changing to a different subject. He was advocating tough vetting for security purposes not to keep a pure race. They still accept Muslims into their country.Glenn Beck had the Polish Depity Prime Minister on his show today. He asked the PM about the so called "Heritage Groups" that are making noise in the USA. That's a nice way of saying racist groups with people like you. The Polish PM condemned them and their philosophy. Those are your people man, what's going on?!?!So, the U.S.A doesn't have the largest White population in total numbers?
Of course it does.
The Polish Deputy PM, had said to Glenn Beck that Poland kept terrorism out by keeping out Islamic refugees?
The majority of people in Poland don't really like Muslims, Jews, Gypsies, Russians, Germans, or Ukrainians.
They might range from slight dislike, to strong dislike, but in not a whole lot of favorable views on those groups in Poland . (Which is confirmed by polls.)
As for Black Americans, or Hispanics, most in Poland don't really know much about them.
However, there's definitely a good deal of Polish Americans, who aren't keen on Blacks, and Hispanics.
If the majority of polish people don't like people of other races then why does your country allow immigration or even visitation from these groups? And why would you live in America which is a melting pot of multiracial and multicultural peopleThe don't keep out, they strictly vet. But you are ignoring my point and changing to a different subject. He was advocating tough vetting for security purposes not to keep a pure race. They still accept Muslims into their country.Glenn Beck had the Polish Depity Prime Minister on his show today. He asked the PM about the so called "Heritage Groups" that are making noise in the USA. That's a nice way of saying racist groups with people like you. The Polish PM condemned them and their philosophy. Those are your people man, what's going on?!?!So, the U.S.A doesn't have the largest White population in total numbers?
Of course it does.
The Polish Deputy PM, had said to Glenn Beck that Poland kept terrorism out by keeping out Islamic refugees?
The majority of people in Poland don't really like Muslims, Jews, Gypsies, Russians, Germans, or Ukrainians.
They might range from slight dislike, to strong dislike, but in not a whole lot of favorable views on those groups in Poland . (Which is confirmed by polls.)
As for Black Americans, or Hispanics, most in Poland don't really know much about them.
However, there's definitely a good deal of Polish Americans, who aren't keen on Blacks, and Hispanics.
This would depend upon what is meant by “whatever means necessary.”It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.
I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.
I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.
I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.
Then why does your country let the outsiders in?If the majority of polish people don't like people of other races then why does your country allow immigration or even visitation from these groups? And why would you live in America which is a melting pot of multiracial and multicultural peopleThe don't keep out, they strictly vet. But you are ignoring my point and changing to a different subject. He was advocating tough vetting for security purposes not to keep a pure race. They still accept Muslims into their country.Glenn Beck had the Polish Depity Prime Minister on his show today. He asked the PM about the so called "Heritage Groups" that are making noise in the USA. That's a nice way of saying racist groups with people like you. The Polish PM condemned them and their philosophy. Those are your people man, what's going on?!?!
The Polish Deputy PM, had said to Glenn Beck that Poland kept terrorism out by keeping out Islamic refugees?
The majority of people in Poland don't really like Muslims, Jews, Gypsies, Russians, Germans, or Ukrainians.
They might range from slight dislike, to strong dislike, but in not a whole lot of favorable views on those groups in Poland . (Which is confirmed by polls.)
As for Black Americans, or Hispanics, most in Poland don't really know much about them.
However, there's definitely a good deal of Polish Americans, who aren't keen on Blacks, and Hispanics.
Well, actually most Poles are culturalists, not multiculturalists, nor racists.
Poles don't like Jews, or Muslims for religious cultural reasons.
Poles don't like Russians, or Ukrainians, and Germans, for historic cultural clashes.
I wasnt trying to make the point that ignoring these groups is warranted I was saying that it would be effective as these groups feed off conflict and use it to escalate. This ends up giving them much more exposure and a louder voice then their collective would be able to do on their own.This would depend upon what is meant by “whatever means necessary.”It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.
I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.
I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.
I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.
If “whatever means necessary” includes government engaging in prior restraint of rightwing hate speech, or otherwise ‘outlawing’ that hate speech, then you should indeed be conflicted, given the fact hate speech is entitled to Constitutional protections.
If, however, by “whatever means necessary” doesn’t include government ‘outlawing’ hate speech, then there is no conflict – as the First Amendment and the free speech it protects applies solely to the relationship between government and those governed, not between or among private persons or organizations.
Consequently, for you to oppose, denounce, or condemn hate speech as a private person in the context of private discourse and debate, the notion of ‘free speech’ doesn’t come into play, and no ‘rights’ have been ‘violated’ – including rightwing bigots and racists refraining from engaging in hate speech because they are subject to public condemnation.
Therefore, ignoring hate speech is not warranted – you are at liberty to speak out against rightwing bigotry and racism, and denounce their fear and hate.
you can't take down what someone else values simply because you have different values. all this bullshit started with "we must remove the confed flag from gov grounds!!!"You don't see the difference between the soldiers and the generals/leaders? Come on Marty, think on this one for a few minutes.Also, somebody wearing a shirt is very different than a statue or monument in a public square. You don't see statues of Hitler or his generals or a park named Nazi park in Germany. Doesn't that just make sense?It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.
I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.
I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.
I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.
by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.
There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.
It's the same angst that is created, the same butt hurt. The difference I don't feel the need to force my butt hurt on everyone else by banning Che shirts.
And while there are no Hitler memorials, there are monuments to German Soldiers who fell during the war.
German War Memorials
the left promised that's all they wanted. the right said bullshit.
who was right now?
germany has a holocaust museum. we should at least preserve our past, good and bad, so we know who we are and where we came from. we can't erase the things we don't like or sooner or later none of us will be here.
Then why does your country let the outsiders in?If the majority of polish people don't like people of other races then why does your country allow immigration or even visitation from these groups? And why would you live in America which is a melting pot of multiracial and multicultural peopleThe don't keep out, they strictly vet. But you are ignoring my point and changing to a different subject. He was advocating tough vetting for security purposes not to keep a pure race. They still accept Muslims into their country.The Polish Deputy PM, had said to Glenn Beck that Poland kept terrorism out by keeping out Islamic refugees?
The majority of people in Poland don't really like Muslims, Jews, Gypsies, Russians, Germans, or Ukrainians.
They might range from slight dislike, to strong dislike, but in not a whole lot of favorable views on those groups in Poland . (Which is confirmed by polls.)
As for Black Americans, or Hispanics, most in Poland don't really know much about them.
However, there's definitely a good deal of Polish Americans, who aren't keen on Blacks, and Hispanics.
Well, actually most Poles are culturalists, not multiculturalists, nor racists.
Poles don't like Jews, or Muslims for religious cultural reasons.
Poles don't like Russians, or Ukrainians, and Germans, for historic cultural clashes.
We have laws genius. Do you not understand the concept of how law and freedom exist in a civilized society. Do I need to talk to you like a kindergartener or can you show a sliver of intelligence and awareness of reality?
What's the benefits of race mixing?
If Latin America shows it, then Humanity is screwed. (The next Dark Ages will arise)
Um, the ability to combine the strengths of two races together?
I hate to break it to you, but the more you talk, the easier it is to believe that the your biggest, proudest accomplishment in life was to be born with a specific skin pigment.
Typical Brit, who's too dumb to grasp racial concepts.
If you mix an intelligent, and a dumb people together, you'll most of the time get a average person.
So, is it better to weed out the intelligence to average?
Absolutely not, because so many factors are involved in intelligence, obviously not only should the more intelligent group be isolated, to express genius more, they should be the fastest growing group.
That's the exact opposite, of what's going on.
So, no I don't think you think things through.
I'm not a "Brit", you retard. I have never been anywhere outside the US except for Mexico. My family has been in this country for centuries. And just by the by, what makes you so sure I'm white?
Furthermore, why do you assume you would be mixing with a person of average intelligence? As it happens, I have a tested IQ in the 98th percentile, as does my Chinese husband, as do all three of our children, as does my grandson, whose father was half-black, half-Mexican. Trust me, I have a lot more in common with my brilliant Asian husband than I ever could with some three-toothed racist dipshit simply because of an accident of pigmentation. After the first 30 seconds of conversation about which sunscreen is best, he wouldn't understand a single word I said, let alone the context when they're strung together into sentences.
If I want to breed for better, stronger children, my husband is far and away a better choice than you could ever have been, completely aside from the utter distaste I would feel for you every time you opened your mouth to speak.
And finally, if you want to see the result of your breeding theories about isolating the "elites" from the "common stock", you need look no further than the medical histories of the royalty and nobility of Europe, rife with hereditary defects like hemophilia, which was once known as "the king's disease", and mental illness.
I'd also bet money we're all better-looking than you are, too.
Right here below you admitted to being of a British background.
Racist groups vs Free Speech, i've converted...
I never mentioned anything about mixing, you or I.
I clearly only mentioned a reference to weeding down the intensity of Humanity by mixing different levels of intelligence together.
I'm starting to think it's you who's the retard.
Then why does your country let the outsiders in?If the majority of polish people don't like people of other races then why does your country allow immigration or even visitation from these groups? And why would you live in America which is a melting pot of multiracial and multicultural peopleThe don't keep out, they strictly vet. But you are ignoring my point and changing to a different subject. He was advocating tough vetting for security purposes not to keep a pure race. They still accept Muslims into their country.
The majority of people in Poland don't really like Muslims, Jews, Gypsies, Russians, Germans, or Ukrainians.
They might range from slight dislike, to strong dislike, but in not a whole lot of favorable views on those groups in Poland . (Which is confirmed by polls.)
As for Black Americans, or Hispanics, most in Poland don't really know much about them.
However, there's definitely a good deal of Polish Americans, who aren't keen on Blacks, and Hispanics.
Well, actually most Poles are culturalists, not multiculturalists, nor racists.
Poles don't like Jews, or Muslims for religious cultural reasons.
Poles don't like Russians, or Ukrainians, and Germans, for historic cultural clashes.
Poland hasn't let in many foreigners.
I'd give Native Americans much stronger statehood to protect them.
What does that even mean?
It means that he thinks you benefit people by treating them like permanently helpless victims.
Sorry, I don't see it.
I could write something long about America being a mixed race nation that has grown to be the most innovative, influential and powerful nation in the world but I'll keep it simple... the benefit of mix racing is very easily explained with in word... FREEDOM.We have laws genius. Do you not understand the concept of how law and freedom exist in a civilized society. Do I need to talk to you like a kindergartener or can you show a sliver of intelligence and awareness of reality?
What's the benefits of race mixing?
If Latin America shows it, then Humanity is screwed. (The next Dark Ages will arise)
It's not about controlling mixing or non mixing it's about having the freedom to choose whatever you want. That's the American way and something you don't seem to understand.
Actually a lot of the intellect of the U.S.A was clearly imported from Europe, like Nikola Tesla (Serbia) Wernher Von Braun (Germany) Alexander Graham Bell (Scotland) Igor Sikorsky (Russia) Enrico Fermi (Italy) Henryk Magnuski (Poland) Albert Einstein (Germany) Anthony Francis Lucas (Croatia) Pupin (Serbia) Vladimir Zworykin (Russia) Robert Oppenheimer (Germany)
Still waiting, here's a quote from you. What the heck does it mean?
"I'd give Native Americans much stronger statehood to protect them."
I'd support breaking away Native Americans into their own countries.
You are the king at dodging questions, I give upThen why does your country let the outsiders in?If the majority of polish people don't like people of other races then why does your country allow immigration or even visitation from these groups? And why would you live in America which is a melting pot of multiracial and multicultural peopleThe don't keep out, they strictly vet. But you are ignoring my point and changing to a different subject. He was advocating tough vetting for security purposes not to keep a pure race. They still accept Muslims into their country.
The majority of people in Poland don't really like Muslims, Jews, Gypsies, Russians, Germans, or Ukrainians.
They might range from slight dislike, to strong dislike, but in not a whole lot of favorable views on those groups in Poland . (Which is confirmed by polls.)
As for Black Americans, or Hispanics, most in Poland don't really know much about them.
However, there's definitely a good deal of Polish Americans, who aren't keen on Blacks, and Hispanics.
Well, actually most Poles are culturalists, not multiculturalists, nor racists.
Poles don't like Jews, or Muslims for religious cultural reasons.
Poles don't like Russians, or Ukrainians, and Germans, for historic cultural clashes.
Poland hasn't let in many foreigners.
What's the benefits of race mixing?
If Latin America shows it, then Humanity is screwed. (The next Dark Ages will arise)
Um, the ability to combine the strengths of two races together?
I hate to break it to you, but the more you talk, the easier it is to believe that the your biggest, proudest accomplishment in life was to be born with a specific skin pigment.
Typical Brit, who's too dumb to grasp racial concepts.
If you mix an intelligent, and a dumb people together, you'll most of the time get a average person.
So, is it better to weed out the intelligence to average?
Absolutely not, because so many factors are involved in intelligence, obviously not only should the more intelligent group be isolated, to express genius more, they should be the fastest growing group.
That's the exact opposite, of what's going on.
So, no I don't think you think things through.
I'm not a "Brit", you retard. I have never been anywhere outside the US except for Mexico. My family has been in this country for centuries. And just by the by, what makes you so sure I'm white?
Furthermore, why do you assume you would be mixing with a person of average intelligence? As it happens, I have a tested IQ in the 98th percentile, as does my Chinese husband, as do all three of our children, as does my grandson, whose father was half-black, half-Mexican. Trust me, I have a lot more in common with my brilliant Asian husband than I ever could with some three-toothed racist dipshit simply because of an accident of pigmentation. After the first 30 seconds of conversation about which sunscreen is best, he wouldn't understand a single word I said, let alone the context when they're strung together into sentences.
If I want to breed for better, stronger children, my husband is far and away a better choice than you could ever have been, completely aside from the utter distaste I would feel for you every time you opened your mouth to speak.
And finally, if you want to see the result of your breeding theories about isolating the "elites" from the "common stock", you need look no further than the medical histories of the royalty and nobility of Europe, rife with hereditary defects like hemophilia, which was once known as "the king's disease", and mental illness.
I'd also bet money we're all better-looking than you are, too.
Right here below you admitted to being of a British background.
Racist groups vs Free Speech, i've converted...
I never mentioned anything about mixing, you or I.
I clearly only mentioned a reference to weeding down the intensity of Humanity by mixing different levels of intelligence together.
I'm starting to think it's you who's the retard.
I disbelieve that you are starting to think, at all, about anything. Certainly no evidence is being presented.
1) There's no "admitting" about anything, since one's heritage is not a crime, or shameful, or anything else that would be "admitted".
2) Right there, I also said what I'm clearly going to have to say again, since you apparently don't have much reading comprehension beyond kindergarten level: There's a difference between British heritage and "being a Brit". Moron. My family has been here for centuries, since before there even was a US, as well as drawing from many places besides Great Britain, including the Cherokee nation. Which makes me nothing but an American.
3) You said nothing about mixing? So this quote, drawn from this very conversation, wasn't you? "If you mix an intelligent, and a dumb people together, you'll most of the time get a average person."
4) Judging by what little of benefit you would bring to any breeding program, I can see why you have a bee in your bonnet about mixing in less intelligent specimens. If you were a dog, the breeder would have snipped your jewels in record time, methinks.
You are the king at dodging questions, I give upThen why does your country let the outsiders in?If the majority of polish people don't like people of other races then why does your country allow immigration or even visitation from these groups? And why would you live in America which is a melting pot of multiracial and multicultural peopleThe majority of people in Poland don't really like Muslims, Jews, Gypsies, Russians, Germans, or Ukrainians.
They might range from slight dislike, to strong dislike, but in not a whole lot of favorable views on those groups in Poland . (Which is confirmed by polls.)
As for Black Americans, or Hispanics, most in Poland don't really know much about them.
However, there's definitely a good deal of Polish Americans, who aren't keen on Blacks, and Hispanics.
Well, actually most Poles are culturalists, not multiculturalists, nor racists.
Poles don't like Jews, or Muslims for religious cultural reasons.
Poles don't like Russians, or Ukrainians, and Germans, for historic cultural clashes.
Poland hasn't let in many foreigners.
I could write something long about America being a mixed race nation that has grown to be the most innovative, influential and powerful nation in the world but I'll keep it simple... the benefit of mix racing is very easily explained with in word... FREEDOM.What's the benefits of race mixing?
If Latin America shows it, then Humanity is screwed. (The next Dark Ages will arise)
It's not about controlling mixing or non mixing it's about having the freedom to choose whatever you want. That's the American way and something you don't seem to understand.
Actually a lot of the intellect of the U.S.A was clearly imported from Europe, like Nikola Tesla (Serbia) Wernher Von Braun (Germany) Alexander Graham Bell (Scotland) Igor Sikorsky (Russia) Enrico Fermi (Italy) Henryk Magnuski (Poland) Albert Einstein (Germany) Anthony Francis Lucas (Croatia) Pupin (Serbia) Vladimir Zworykin (Russia) Robert Oppenheimer (Germany)
Still waiting, here's a quote from you. What the heck does it mean?
"I'd give Native Americans much stronger statehood to protect them."
I'd support breaking away Native Americans into their own countries.
Hey, this is America. If they want to leave, they're welcome to. No one will stop them. Noticeably, they aren't even twitching in that direction.
FYI, though, they're not taking the dirt. It's not theirs anymore, nation-wise. They want the dirt, they're gonna have to stick with the country that owns it.
