Questions for Republicans, Conservatives, RINOs, Tea Partiers, et al:

[JimBowie1958]

Not supporting someone because you don't think they have a chance demonstrates very weak integrity.

That's how we get Clintons and Bushes and Obamas.

And exactly how we got Trump.

Like the lady said, "Stand by your man."

Wow, it must be real tough to be one of the precious few people who can think in this world.

/sarc

 

[BULLDOG]

For Republicans and RINO's:
If an anti-establishment candidate (like Trump or Cruz) gets nominated, will you vote for him?

For Conservatives and Tea Partiers:
If an establishment candidate (Rubio or, uh, Kasich) gets nominated, will you vote for him?
.

I'll vote for a 3 legged dog before I vote for whoever the Democrats offer up this year.

Of course you would. There always a few crazies who write in all kinds of crazy people and things.things. Pat Paulson still receives lots of votes every election.

And you fools seem poised to nominate one of two old white folks who have no new ideas, just hopes to create a socialist utopia here in the United States. Neither will win the general election.

If you don't want to vote for the democratic nominee,nobody says you have to.

 

[Mac1958]

The only person I have problems with right now is Trump because he isn't a conservative in the slightest

Some of the Trump supporters I've talked to say they know that and they can live with it. They say his ability to make deals is more important, even if some of the deal-making (by definition) would have to involve give & take. This, after eight years of saying that cooperation is essentially capitulation.

This has been amazing to watch.
.

 

[Mac1958]

I'll vote for a 3 legged dog before I vote for whoever the Democrats offer up this year.

So that means you'll vote Republican whether he's establishment or anti-establishment?
.

 

[Avatar4321]

The only person I have problems with right now is Trump because he isn't a conservative in the slightest

Some of the Trump supporters I've talked to say they know that and they can live with it. They say his ability to make deals is more important, even if some of the deal-making (by definition) would have to involve give & take. This, after eight years of saying that cooperation is essentially capitulation.

This has been amazing to watch.
.

Yes it is amazing. The reason McConnell and the Republicans are hated so much is because they've tried to make deals with Obama instead of fighting for the principles they were elected for. Heck Rubio's main problem is that he tries to make a deal for immigration reform.

And yet suddenly being able to make a deal is the main reason to support Trump? I don't buy it.

 

[Mac1958]

The only person I have problems with right now is Trump because he isn't a conservative in the slightest

Some of the Trump supporters I've talked to say they know that and they can live with it. They say his ability to make deals is more important, even if some of the deal-making (by definition) would have to involve give & take. This, after eight years of saying that cooperation is essentially capitulation.

This has been amazing to watch.
.

Yes it is amazing. The reason McConnell and the Republicans are hated so much is because they've tried to make deals with Obama instead of fighting for the principles they were elected for. Heck Rubio's main problem is that he tries to make a deal for immigration reform.

And yet suddenly being able to make a deal is the main reason to support Trump? I don't buy it.

Yeah, I'm not sure either. He could just be a big "fuck you" to the system that has them so frustrated. I dunno.
.

 

[Boss]

The only person I have problems with right now is Trump because he isn't a conservative in the slightest

Some of the Trump supporters I've talked to say they know that and they can live with it. They say his ability to make deals is more important, even if some of the deal-making (by definition) would have to involve give & take. This, after eight years of saying that cooperation is essentially capitulation.

This has been amazing to watch.
.

Look... Here's the thing, and I don't know that I can explain it adequately but I will try... Trump is not the typical ideal Conservative purist (for lack of a better word). Mark Levin, whom I respect greatly and agree with 99.9999% of the time, and actually agree with him on Trump and believe like he does, Ted Cruz is the best Conservative running... may be wrong on this. I'll say it again... myself, the so-called "constitutional conservatives" who believe in originalist intent, etc.... MAY be wrong. Here's why...

Conservatism has been given a big black eye by the left. Much of it is deserved. Fat Cat corporatists have exploited illegal immigration to repay their Big Business donors who profit off cheap labor and they don't care about what's good for our country. The Republicans have capitulated and gone along with Democrats on so many things regarding the budget and trade... all because they are tied to their donors and corporate lobbyists just like the Democrats and the American "working class" are being screwed. So Conservatism has been tied to this Cronyism that has been going on with Republicans since Reagan and whenever someone gets up like a Ted Cruz or Ben Carson and says... I am a Conservative and proud of it... they get hammered. Clobbered! They are turned into these monstrous ideologues who are dangerous and scary... and the people in general simply tune the fuck out.

Now, here is where the constitutional originalists such as myself and Levin might be wrong in our thinking... This is arguably one of the oldest and most heated debates in our nation's history. Whether we are Federalists or Statists... Whether our government is limited in power or has unlimited power... It is, at the very core and root, an ideological argument for the ages. It is clearly the thing that defines left and right today more than any other time in our history. Now... myself, Levin and others are of the firm belief we should be a Federalist country with a limited government and adhere to constitutional original interpretations as opposed to new age "living document" legislating from the bench insanity. Understood? That's what me, Levin and millions of Americans believe with our heart, soul and ever fiber of our being.... We are a country of 350 million people and they don't ALL share our viewpoint. They never have, they never will.

We need to come to terms with that fact. Realize that maybe we don't live in the Perfect World where everyone sees things the way we see them and feels we should return to core founding principles and smaller limited government the way we do. At the same time... we cannot sit back and allow one Socialist after another to take a crack at bringing down the greatest nation that ever existed on the planet! So what are we going to HAVE to do here? We're going to have to do what Americans are genius at doing... Compromise. Take a step back from our ideological views and look at what needs to be done in order to prevent our great nation from careening off the cliff with one of these insane Socialists who are drooling over the prospects of destroying free market capitalism and freedom for good.

Trump, for all the bad nasty things you can say about him, is not some left wing fruit loop like Bernie Sanders. All this nonsensical PC liberal idiocy is not things Donald Trump puts up with. He may not be the "ideal conservative" but so what? Maybe things politically have become too polarized to ever dream of the "ideal conservative like Ronnie Reagan" ever winning again? At least not until someone cleans the table, wipes the slate, does away with the negative rhetoric and stigma associated with Conservatives and Republicans and unifies America behind a populist message of making the country #1 again. Think of Trump as sort of an "ideological neutralizer" who will unite the silent majority in a way that hasn't been done in decades.

All I am saying is, when you take off your partisan shades, Trump looks much better than the alternative and may actually be the best possible chance at restoring some sanity in government. A purist ideologue is NOT going to do that... A Cruz or Rubio will prevail over 4 more years of in-fighting and hostile polarized rhetoric that will end up getting us nowhere. And I am saying this as someone who staunchly supports Cruz and plans to vote for him because I think he is the best Conservative in the race.

 

[Mac1958]

The only person I have problems with right now is Trump because he isn't a conservative in the slightest

Some of the Trump supporters I've talked to say they know that and they can live with it. They say his ability to make deals is more important, even if some of the deal-making (by definition) would have to involve give & take. This, after eight years of saying that cooperation is essentially capitulation.

This has been amazing to watch.
.

Look... Here's the thing, and I don't know that I can explain it adequately but I will try... Trump is not the typical ideal Conservative purist (for lack of a better word). Mark Levin, whom I respect greatly and agree with 99.9999% of the time, and actually agree with him on Trump and believe like he does, Ted Cruz is the best Conservative running... may be wrong on this. I'll say it again... myself, the so-called "constitutional conservatives" who believe in originalist intent, etc.... MAY be wrong. Here's why...

Conservatism has been given a big black eye by the left. Much of it is deserved. Fat Cat corporatists have exploited illegal immigration to repay their Big Business donors who profit off cheap labor and they don't care about what's good for our country. The Republicans have capitulated and gone along with Democrats on so many things regarding the budget and trade... all because they are tied to their donors and corporate lobbyists just like the Democrats and the American "working class" are being screwed. So Conservatism has been tied to this Cronyism that has been going on with Republicans since Reagan and whenever someone gets up like a Ted Cruz or Ben Carson and says... I am a Conservative and proud of it... they get hammered. Clobbered! They are turned into these monstrous ideologues who are dangerous and scary... and the people in general simply tune the fuck out.

Now, here is where the constitutional originalists such as myself and Levin might be wrong in our thinking... This is arguably one of the oldest and most heated debates in our nation's history. Whether we are Federalists or Statists... Whether our government is limited in power or has unlimited power... It is, at the very core and root, an ideological argument for the ages. It is clearly the thing that defines left and right today more than any other time in our history. Now... myself, Levin and others are of the firm belief we should be a Federalist country with a limited government and adhere to constitutional original interpretations as opposed to new age "living document" legislating from the bench insanity. Understood? That's what me, Levin and millions of Americans believe with our heart, soul and ever fiber of our being.... We are a country of 350 million people and they don't ALL share our viewpoint. They never have, they never will.

We need to come to terms with that fact. Realize that maybe we don't live in the Perfect World where everyone sees things the way we see them and feels we should return to core founding principles and smaller limited government the way we do. At the same time... we cannot sit back and allow one Socialist after another to take a crack at bringing down the greatest nation that ever existed on the planet! So what are we going to HAVE to do here? We're going to have to do what Americans are genius at doing... Compromise. Take a step back from our ideological views and look at what needs to be done in order to prevent our great nation from careening off the cliff with one of these insane Socialists who are drooling over the prospects of destroying free market capitalism and freedom for good.

Trump, for all the bad nasty things you can say about him, is not some left wing fruit loop like Bernie Sanders. All this nonsensical PC liberal idiocy is not things Donald Trump puts up with. He may not be the "ideal conservative" but so what? Maybe things politically have become too polarized to ever dream of the "ideal conservative like Ronnie Reagan" ever winning again? At least not until someone cleans the table, wipes the slate, does away with the negative rhetoric and stigma associated with Conservatives and Republicans and unifies America behind a populist message of making the country #1 again. Think of Trump as sort of an "ideological neutralizer" who will unite the silent majority in a way that hasn't been done in decades.

All I am saying is, when you take off your partisan shades, Trump looks much better than the alternative and may actually be the best possible chance at restoring some sanity in government. A purist ideologue is NOT going to do that... A Cruz or Rubio will prevail over 4 more years of in-fighting and hostile polarized rhetoric that will end up getting us nowhere. And I am saying this as someone who staunchly supports Cruz and plans to vote for him because I think he is the best Conservative in the race.

Holy crap, thank you, a lot of interesting stuff there.

First of all, excuse me while I try to adjust to the notion of someone from one party here saying "I might be wrong". Sensory overload.

The one part of this that I'm having trouble with is the point that Levin - whose influence is pretty clear with some people I speak with - is willing to stand by while Trump compromises with the Democrats on ANYTHING. This is the guy I'm seeing in my mind when I use the term "absolutist" to describe modern conservatives. Are you really sure that he would, even if that compromise produced some results that he likes?

And "take a step back from our ideological views"? Yes, amen, but that's just so difficult to see. Especially from the likes of Levin, Hannity, Limbaugh. Are you saying that you feel they would agree with that, really? Have they said something to that effect?

One point I've made that Trump supporters appear to agree with is that maybe he would "unclog the D.C. toilet". Okay, great, but again that would mean both sides would need to back down. That appears to be what you're supporting.

Thanks again for the candid comments.

Open, honest, civil conversation is possible here. Go figure.
.

 

[Anathema]

he was only a "liberal" in rightwingnuthackworld. but feel free to tell me how someone running on an anti-choice, theocratic, pro top 1%, anti poor anti social justice etc platform is a liberal.

Having lived through 4 years of the Romney Regime here in Massachusetts, I'll tell yoi that I have seen nothing in his words or actions that ever made me believe he was, is, or ever will be, a Conservative.

 

[jillian]

he was only a "liberal" in rightwingnuthackworld. but feel free to tell me how someone running on an anti-choice, theocratic, pro top 1%, anti poor anti social justice etc platform is a liberal.

Having lived through 4 years of the Romney Regime here in Massachusetts, I'll tell yoi that I have seen nothing in his words or actions that ever made me believe he was, is, or ever will be, a Conservative.

from what i've heard he did a pretty good job in Massachusetts. he was a moderate there. but i'm speaking to the positions he took when he ran for president. he so locked himself into the right to get the nod that he couldn't move center for the general election. so i'll reiterate all of the things i said previously.

 

[Anathema]

You're trying to say there are liberal right wingers? That's pretty dumb, don't you think?

I'm telling you that the Republican Party is NOT a Right-Wing party at its core. Especially not in terms of its Establishment branch. They're moderate-Libs at best and damn near Democrats at worst. They go along to get along (see Mit h McConnell).

 

[Anathema]

from what i've heard he did a pretty good job in Massachusetts. he was a moderate there. but i'm speaking to the positions he took when he ran for president. he so locked himself into the right to get the nod that he couldn't move center for the general election. so i'll reiterate all of the things i said previously.

He did a horrible job in Massachusetts.... when he came out from under the Speaker of the House's desk long enough to get a breath of fresh air and do his job.

I dont give a **** what someone promises in a campaign. Show me whst theyce DONE in their lives and in office.

 

[jillian]

from what i've heard he did a pretty good job in Massachusetts. he was a moderate there. but i'm speaking to the positions he took when he ran for president. he so locked himself into the right to get the nod that he couldn't move center for the general election. so i'll reiterate all of the things i said previously.

He did a horrible job in Massachusetts.... when he came out from under the Speaker of the House's desk long enough to get a breath of fresh air and do his job.

I dont give a **** what someone promises in a campaign. Show me whst theyce DONE in their lives and in office.

My friends in Massachusetts didnt dislike him. Just for the record. They saw him as a down the middle kind of guy.

See. When someone tells me they will put judges on the beach to overthrow roe v wade I believe them. And when a person disavows his own health care plan like Romney did to suck up to the base, then I just think he's a jerk.

Also, being a liberal who makes a good living, has worked since I was 15, and probably pays a higher percentage of her income in taxes than Romney does (since I don't have the same deductions or reduced tax rate for dividend income), I found it offensive to be counted among some fictitious 47% of people who sit drooling into their beer and living off of government hand-outs.

Either way, we both agree he'd have made a terrible president.

 

[Anathema]

My friends in Massachusetts didnt dislike him. Just for the record. They saw him as a down the middle kind of guy....

There is no middle of the road, only roadkill that's been run over by the traffic on one, or both sides of the road.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The only person I have problems with right now is Trump because he isn't a conservative in the slightest

Some of the Trump supporters I've talked to say they know that and they can live with it. They say his ability to make deals is more important, even if some of the deal-making (by definition) would have to involve give & take. This, after eight years of saying that cooperation is essentially capitulation.

I dont know of who is saying that 'cooperation is capitulation'. The Obama version of cooperation and compromise is that he gets only half of what he is demanding. Obviously that is not compromise but the GOP leadership in Congress is stuck on stupid and they keep on giving him what he demands.

Obama is going to close down Gitmo and bring the most hard core fanatic terrorists onto American soil where the ACLU and every other googoo libtard group will argue they have Constitutional rights as prisoners of war. And the GOP Congressional leaders will play fight it again. And we will end up with hard core veteran Muslim terrorists getting out and taking advisory and leadership positions RIGHT HERE IN THE USA.

How do I know they will put up a half hearted fight and then cave?

History? That is huge enough, but that doesnt explain such a 100% consistent record of negotiation failure.

They just cant get anything accomplished due to not having enough signatures to pass things over Obama veto? Well that didnt stop Tip O'Neal from shoving things through when Reagan was in office. You think Democrats are just smarter than Republicans in Congress? Thats obviously not the case if you have ever listened to any of them.

The real question is 'Why are GOP leaders such fucking losers?' And 'how do they continue to acquire positions of power?'

The answer; they get that power by selling out to the multinational corporations who then compel the Congressmen to give them what they want (pork and open borders) and make corporate concerns top priority and forget the average America until election time, where they go out and lie to us all over again.

Trump is putting a big wrench in the machinery and I love it.

But Trump is not conservative in your opinion? Based on what issue?

He is going to make control of immigration a top priority, end Common Core, stop the idiotic trade we have going, strengthen our military, end Obama Care, and make CCW licenses reciprocal across state lines. And Trump might actually keep those promises as he has huge money he can make off a successful Presidency and he wants to be a hero.

What the hell makes you think he isnt a 'real' conservative?

This has been amazing to watch.
.

Yeah, sure has been. I have watched Republicans who agree with each other on 95% of the issues attacking and lying about the other candidates in the most outrageous ways, like saying Trump is not conservative.

It is unbelievable.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Also, being a liberal who makes a good living, has worked since I was 15, and probably pays a higher percentage of her income in taxes than Romney does

With the cap on Social Security, unless yo are a millionaire, you do pay a higher percentage in taxes than Romney does.

That is why the establishments of both parties maintain the fiction that Social Security is not part of the general budget and they borrow that money and put I.O.U. Treasuries in a little vault out in W Virginia.

This keeps THEIR taxes lower and fuck you and everyone else.

 

[Mac1958]

The only person I have problems with right now is Trump because he isn't a conservative in the slightest

Some of the Trump supporters I've talked to say they know that and they can live with it. They say his ability to make deals is more important, even if some of the deal-making (by definition) would have to involve give & take. This, after eight years of saying that cooperation is essentially capitulation.

I dont know of who is saying that 'cooperation is capitulation'. The Obama version of cooperation and compromise is that he gets only half of what he is demanding. Obviously that is not compromise but the GOP leadership in Congress is stuck on stupid and they keep on giving him what he demands.

Obama is going to close down Gitmo and bring the most hard core fanatic terrorists onto American soil where the ACLU and every other googoo libtard group will argue they have Constitutional rights as prisoners of war. And the GOP Congressional leaders will play fight it again. And we will end up with hard core veteran Muslim terrorists getting out and taking advisory and leadership positions RIGHT HERE IN THE USA.

How do I know they will put up a half hearted fight and then cave?

History? That is huge enough, but that doesnt explain such a 100% consistent record of negotiation failure.

They just cant get anything accomplished due to not having enough signatures to pass things over Obama veto? Well that didnt stop Tip O'Neal from shoving things through when Reagan was in office. You think Democrats are just smarter than Republicans in Congress? Thats obviously not the case if you have ever listened to any of them.

The real question is 'Why are GOP leaders such fucking losers?' And 'how do they continue to acquire positions of power?'

The answer; they get that power by selling out to the multinational corporations who then compel the Congressmen to give them what they want (pork and open borders) and make corporate concerns top priority and forget the average America until election time, where they go out and lie to us all over again.

Trump is putting a big wrench in the machinery and I love it.

But Trump is not conservative in your opinion? Based on what issue?

He is going to make control of immigration a top priority, end Common Core, stop the idiotic trade we have going, strengthen our military, end Obama Care, and make CCW licenses reciprocal across state lines. And Trump might actually keep those promises as he has huge money he can make off a successful Presidency and he wants to be a hero.

What the hell makes you think he isnt a 'real' conservative?

This has been amazing to watch.
.

Yeah, sure has been. I have watched Republicans who agree with each other on 95% of the issues attacking and lying about the other candidates in the most outrageous ways, like saying Trump is not conservative.

It is unbelievable.

I'm just putting two and two together, and yes, I sure as hell could be wrong.

This is a guy who has made it clear in the past that he has/had positions on issues that are in direct conflict with conservatism. The argument is that he has changed his mind over the years and that he is being sincere.

Personally, I don't believe that for a minute. I think this is a guy who will say absolutely anything at any time if he senses advantage in doing so. I don't think there's any way to know what a salesman is actually thinking, and that he's the ultimate salesman.

I also think that the conservative movement has been desperate for inspiration and leadership for the last 8 years or so and is willing to gravitate to some pretty questionable characters in its quest - Palin and Trump being the top two.
.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The one part of this that I'm having trouble with is the point that Levin - whose influence is pretty clear with some people I speak with - is willing to stand by while Trump compromises with the Democrats on ANYTHING. This is the guy I'm seeing in my mind when I use the term "absolutist" to describe modern conservatives. Are you really sure that he would, even if that compromise produced some results that he likes?

And "take a step back from our ideological views"? Yes, amen, but that's just so difficult to see. Especially from the likes of Levin, Hannity, Limbaugh. Are you saying that you feel they would agree with that, really? Have they said something to that effect?

One point I've made that Trump supporters appear to agree with is that maybe he would "unclog the D.C. toilet". Okay, great, but again that would mean both sides would need to back down. That appears to be what you're supporting.

Thanks again for the candid comments.

Open, honest, civil conversation is possible here. Go figure.
.

Reagan made compromises and got half a loaf with the democrats, and it was enough to turn this country around. But giving the Democrats half of what they demand and getting trivial concessions in return is a play fight and not something Reagan would have ever done.

 

[JimBowie1958]

This is a guy who has made it clear in the past that he has/had positions on issues that are in direct conflict with conservatism. The argument is that he has changed his mind over the years and that he is being sincere.

Trump is not an ideological capital 'C' Conservative and he has admitted that on day one. HE is a small 'c' conservative in a reflexive way, and he doesnt like what is going on in this country. I'll take that over an ideological Conservative who is in favor of letting corporations export jobs and blow up the trade deficit.

Personally, I don't believe that for a minute. I think this is a guy who will say absolutely anything at any time if he senses advantage in doing so. I don't think there's any way to know what a salesman is actually thinking, and that he's the ultimate salesman.

That is a myth. Good negotiators and salesmen do not lie as their integrity is the source of most of their ability to make income.

We are not talking about used car salesmen here who can hoodwink customers who have never met them before.

Trump is in real estate in New York where these guys all know each other very well. And if any of them are caught engaging in fraud, they wind up shunned. In the circles Trump does business in he has to maintain his reputation as an honest broker. Otherwise he is out of the top real estate markets and selling used cars.

Look what happened to Madoff's family after he was finally caught. He was only able to do this pyramid scheme because these people cant imagine that any of their own would cheat each other, and Madoffs family paid the price for his lies and deceit and they still are.

You think the supposedly egomaniacal Trump would allow that to happen to his family?

I also think that the conservative movement has been desperate for inspiration and leadership for the last 8 years or so and is willing to gravitate to some pretty questionable characters in its quest - Palin and Trump being the top two.
.

There are no genuine ideological Conservative leaders any more other than Huckabee and a few others. The party Establishment of today was built by George H W Bush and they have been systematically purging the party of genuine paleo-conservatives and replacing them with neocon sell outs.

Then genuine conservatives like Huckabee get slaughtered in federal elections.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The right is divided into so many factions till they are hard to keep up with.

Not really.... there are rwo actual groups Traditional Conservatives and Worthless Sack of Shit Liberals. Everything else is just semantics.

No traditional Conservative would associate with Anathema, so that leaves him being . . . what he said.

what can you say about a guy who hates the world and time period he lives in....