Questions for Conservatives

[maineman]

I accept your concession that you cannot show where the Constitution provides Congress the power to provide health care for the people and/or to provide for the retirement of the people, and therefore have no constitutional basis.

Thank you.

I accept your concession that you cannot show where the constitution provides congress the power to go to the moon, or to establish the national endowment for the arts or the corporation for public broadcasting, and your tacit acknowledgement that those efforts and organizations are, nonetheless, constitutional.

thank you.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I accept your concession that you cannot show where the constitution provides congress the power to go to the moon...

What you don't seem to remember is that the discussion here is about SocSec and Medicare/aid, not NASA...

So:
You're right - NASA is unconstitutional.

How does that raise your position on SocSec and Medicare/aid out of the toilet?

 

[maineman]

I accept your concession that you cannot show where the Constitution provides Congress the power to provide health care for the people and/or to provide for the retirement of the people, and therefore have no constitutional basis.

Thank you.

What you don't seem to remember is that the discussion here is about SocSec and Medicare/aid, not NASA...

So:
You're right - NASA is unconstitutional.

How does that raise your position on SocSec and Medicare/aid out of the toilet?

I have never said that NASA was unconstitutional. nor NEA, nor CPB, nor social security , nor medicare. It is you who are up in arms about some, but not others.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I have never said that NASA was unconstitutional. nor NEA, nor CPB, nor social security , nor medicare. It is you who are up in arms about some, but not others.

My how quickly you forget the topic under discussion.
I think its for your convenience...

You support Medicare/aid and SocSec.
You cannot show where the constitution provides the power to create any of them.

 

[Shogun]

The thread topic is

Questions for Conservatives


not, "hey, let's try to keep the subject narrow so my talking points make more sense"

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The thread topic is

Questions for Conservatives


not, "hey, let's try to keep the subject narrow so my talking points make more sense"

You mean like the opening post tries to dictate how and in what way we should respond?

 

[Shogun]

and did that keep you from responding how you will?


lame, rgs.. LAME.


Mainman is scoring points with the Nasa tangent and M14 knows it. Thus, all of a sudden the thread becomes ONLY about a narrow field of issues when, clearly, he want's Mainman to stop scoring.

Which, really has nothing to do with the first post anyway...


nice to see yo wearing a team jersey though. It helps your credibility.

 

[maineman]

My how quickly you forget the topic under discussion.
I think its for your convenience...

You support Medicare/aid and SocSec.
You cannot show where the constitution provides the power to create any of them.

and you support NASA and other programs yet do not scream that THEY are unconstitutional.

I think that the constitution provides the power for congress to promote the general welfare and I think that every supreme court for the past 70 years agrees with me and not with you.

 

[Dr Grump]

The constitution can be changed at any time, that is why there is an amendment process...it's hard to do, but it can be done. Your founding fathers had great foresight...

 

[midcan5]

Exactly Maine, they support more weapons to kill but nothing to help each other or their fellow citizens. Weird bunch, these righties.

 

[Bern80]

I do not support a woman's choice of abortion. I do not support a gun owner's choice of hunting defenseless animals. I am pro-choice and pro-gun.

You really don't want to start a 'poor defensless animal' debate. You'll lose.

 

[jillian]

and you support NASA and other programs yet do not scream that THEY are unconstitutional.

I think that the constitution provides the power for congress to promote the general welfare and I think that every supreme court for the past 70 years agrees with me and not with you.

yep

 

[Threedee]

and did that keep you from responding how you will?


lame, rgs.. LAME.


Mainman is scoring points with the Nasa tangent and M14 knows it. Thus, all of a sudden the thread becomes ONLY about a narrow field of issues when, clearly, he want's Mainman to stop scoring.

Which, really has nothing to do with the first post anyway...


nice to see yo wearing a team jersey though. It helps your credibility.

How? its completely retarded. That M14 believes its unconstitutional counters any ownage that Maineperson attempted to gain. It also makes him look bad. Your post lacks logic and merit.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The Congress and the Government DO have authority to proceed with Science, or did you miss that part of the Constitution? They also have total authority on relations and actions OUTSIDE the borders of our Country, I suspect Space counts as OUTSIDE our borders and as to Science.

But do make some more irrelevant points.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

NASA falls under more than one specific power granted the Federal Government.

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

and of course

He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties,

all before "and of course" are from Article one and the second bit is from Article 2 in regards the President.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.table.html#articlei

 

[Kid Pickle]

You would need then to explain why FDR's raising of taxes for 40 years worked.

It worked initially to bring a nation out of a catastrophic economic crisis and to mobilize for a massive war on multiple fronts. It then also worked in giving the government increasing amounts of power over the lives of individuals as well as allowing socialists to gain more and more influence over our nation, slowly destroying it from the inside and corrupting the priciples that it was founded upon.

You would also need to explain how a communist country, China is doing so well.

China is a country which has an incredibly massive population. It has a history of subjugation to authoritarian rule, so its population is easily ruled. It also has a history of thinking itself the only truly civilized nation on earth and all others are inferior. Put the three together and you have a powerhouse. The funny thing is, however, that they are more and more becoming capitalist to motivate thier people and pay for their communist government. Communism fails again.

It may just be that Marx was right (in a sense) and it is labor that is key.

Sure, if you convince them that they are in charge while the ruling class reaps all of the beneifts. And you dispose of all who disagree or even appear to do so or who wish to be creative, innovative or pioneering in any way for the satisfaction of their own self interest and not that of the state. In a Marxist system nothing, not even one's own thoughts, or very being belong to one's self. All must be equal, striving only for the "greater good." So all must be equally miserable and equally poor, completely dependant upon the teat of mother government.
The side effect is a labor force which barely labors because there is no real personal reason to do so. No matter what you do or how hard you work, it is always the same, so why try. Especially if the best and most stuff goes to those with the most problems. Better, then, to be a victim of the terrible oppressions of life and claim all of the benefits you can. The only "working" models of communism were massive, populous, resourse-rich places with national characters low on the spirit of individualism. And they failed. The others are tiny, isolated, easily oppresed regimes who barely eke out an existance.
You asked me, now I ask you "Do you really want a life like that?"

On your other statement: The most prosperous era of the American economy has been since the 1980's up to now. Taxes were cut in the 80's. Maybe it's a coincidence. Also, since the Bush tax cuts, our government has been recieving record revenues, unemployment is the lowest in over two decades, and the stock market went over 14,000.
Oh, please, can we have communism now? It's our only hope!

 

[maineman]

RGS sez:

NASA falls under more than one specific power granted the Federal Government:

"To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes"

Apollo 13 helped us regulate commerce with foreign nations and with indican tribes????

"To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries"

so the space program was designed to assist authors and inventors in obtaining copyrights and patents?

"To provide and maintain a navy"

I was in the navy.... I really see nothing that the space program did to impact ship construction and upkeep

A bit of a stretch if you ask me. So NASA is totally constitutional, but medicare is not?

 

[M14 Shooter]

I think that the constitution provides the power for congress to promote the general welfare...

... and yet you cannot cite the clauses that give it the power to provide heath care and retirement benefits to the people.

Why is that?

 

[ReillyT]

... and yet you cannot cite the clauses that give it the power to provide heath care and retirement benefits to the people.

Why is that?

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States. Article I, Section 8, Clause 1

 

[Dr Grump]

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States. Article I, Section 8, Clause 1

Sounds about right and abiguous enough to prove the point imo