Q for Followers of Jesus

[dmp]

Originally posted by dilloduck
That'll be a tough sell to my son.

Let me guess - you are a 'seeing is believing' person eh?

 

[dilloduck]

not at all-----just a critical thinker. Newguy probably has proof this happened.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
not at all-----just a critical thinker. Newguy probably has proof this happened.

I read somewhere recently about science now showing clay mixtures can have tissue generation potential.

I will have to look it up.

I didn't get all of the info since I was on a time limit. I will see if I can retrieve it.

The point, as I said before, is that science is now proving the original Biblical ideas as possible.

That doesn't mean they can DO THE SAME THING THE SAME WAY, but they DO show it can be done a whole lot easier than first suspected.

That fact alone shows that the original reference was not thought up after a drug experience and put onto paper from random thoughts.

 

[NewGuy]

Found it:

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994307

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/10/25/clay.life.reut/

Are you going to doubt some more Dillo?

I tried to tell you you will not get anywhere trying to bet I cannot back up my beliefs.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by -=d=-
What you can't seem to get a grasp on is the fact God never set out to 'prove' his existance to Mankind. The only possible way for you to know who God is revovles around 'faith'.

That said, the Bible just makes sense. it's Rational. Throughout creation are filled signs and ideas of who God is.

You'll not find God unless you let go of some issues, bro.

Not my words - His.

The simple fact that faith is the only means of "knowing" God removes it from the realm of the objective and into the realm of the subjective. Thus the "experience" of God is a wholly subjective experience which is unique to each individual "experienceing" God. How many names are there for God? How many paths are there to God? How many people are upon the face of this earth?

I have no issues to let go of. I have my own experience of the world, and none of that experience has provided evidence of any supreme being. Knowledge of such a being is, due to the very nature attributed to such a being, unavailable to human experience. And while one many rationally deduce the existence of such a being, that deduction fails to provide any useful conclusion.

<blockquote>"There are five things that have a twofold result in this life. What five?...[Knowledge based on] faith, likes, tradition, reflection on form and delight in views...Even if I know something on the basis of best faith, that may be empty , hollow and confused, while what I do not know on the best faith may be factual and true and not otherwise. It is not proper for an intelligent being, safeguarding the truth, to come categorically to the conclusion in this matter that that such alone is true, and whatever else is false."</blockquote>

Faith can blind us to such an extent that no evidence contrary to that article of faith can be accepted. Such blind faith can only lead to dogmatism and the stagnation that invariably accompanies it.

Faith must, ultimately, be viewed in terms of its consequences to this life, in this world. If those consequences lead to the harm of oneself, others, or both then that faith is not grounded inthe human worldand should, therefore, be abandoned.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Found it:

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994307

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/10/25/clay.life.reut/

Are you going to doubt some more Dillo?

I tried to tell you you will not get anywhere trying to bet I cannot back up my beliefs.

Sorry boyo, but the clay doesn't "generate" anything. It merely serves as a catalyst.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Sorry boyo, but the clay doesn't "generate" anything. It merely serves as a catalyst.

I will repeat myself (again).

The point, as I said before, is that science is now proving the original Biblical ideas as possible.

That doesn't mean they can DO THE SAME THING THE SAME WAY, but they DO show it can be done a whole lot easier than first suspected.

That fact alone shows that the original reference was not thought up after a drug experience and put onto paper from random thoughts.

Those articles give more to the discussion than just a few points about clay if you read it.

 

[dmp]

Originally posted by dilloduck
not at all-----just a critical thinker. Newguy probably has proof this happened.

You may enjoy this book - http://www.equip.org/store/details.asp?SKU=B780

The author is obviously more articulate than I; he'd likely be considered a 'critical thinker'

 

[dmp]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
The simple fact that faith is the only means of "knowing" God removes it from the realm of the objective and into the realm of the subjective. Thus the "experience" of God is a wholly subjective experience which is unique to each individual "experienceing" God. How many names are there for God? How many paths are there to God? How many people are upon the face of this earth?

I have no issues to let go of. I have my own experience of the world, and none of that experience has provided evidence of any supreme being. Knowledge of such a being is, due to the very nature attributed to such a being, unavailable to human experience. And while one many rationally deduce the existence of such a being, that deduction fails to provide any useful conclusion.

<blockquote>"There are five things that have a twofold result in this life. What five?...[Knowledge based on] faith, likes, tradition, reflection on form and delight in views...Even if I know something on the basis of best faith, that may be empty , hollow and confused, while what I do not know on the best faith may be factual and true and not otherwise. It is not proper for an intelligent being, safeguarding the truth, to come categorically to the conclusion in this matter that that such alone is true, and whatever else is false."</blockquote>

Faith can blind us to such an extent that no evidence contrary to that article of faith can be accepted. Such blind faith can only lead to dogmatism and the stagnation that invariably accompanies it.

Faith must, ultimately, be viewed in terms of its consequences to this life, in this world. If those consequences lead to the harm of oneself, others, or both then that faith is not grounded inthe human worldand should, therefore, be abandoned.

I feel your issue is you are hiding behind false logic, to help yourself feel better about your spirituality. In all honesty, the more one researches the Sciences, Biology...things of that nature, the more 'evidence' exists for God.

Check out the book I linked to - If you'd read it, I'd even buy it for you.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by -=d=-
I feel your issue is you are hiding behind false logic, to help yourself feel better about your spirituality. In all honesty, the more one researches the Sciences, Biology...things of that nature, the more 'evidence' exists for God.

Check out the book I linked to - If you'd read it, I'd even buy it for you.

Sorry my friend, but I'm hiding behind nothing. As far as the 'evidence' to be found in the sciences, I have yet to see any such evidence.

 

[dmp]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Sorry my friend, but I'm hiding behind nothing. As far as the 'evidence' to be found in the sciences, I have yet to see any such evidence.

where have you looked?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by -=d=-
where have you looked?

Not in MY posts, that is for sure.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by NewGuy
I agree. They are not to judge another's HEART. However, judging actions are a different matter. Jesus said He came "not to bring peace, but be a sword" and divide brother against brother. Taking a stand does that. "Going to Hell" is simply reserved for people who do not accept Jesus as their lord and savior. Insensitive statements? Rude? Out of line?

I would definitely say the statements you bring up would be out of line, but rude and insensitive are irrelevant when the facts are facts. Jesus was rather rude and insensitive when adressing the money changers in the temple by YOUR assessment.

Adolph Eichmann, murderer of millions of men, women and children, (Jewish and gentile alike) was tried in Israel in 1961. A Protestant minister from Canada who flew to Israel to provide Adolf Eichmann (the architect of the Holacaust) with last rites. Met at the airport by reporters, the minister said that if Eichmann confessed his sins and took on Christ he would be saved. And what about Eichmann's six million Jewish victims? If they died as Jews and without taking on Christ, could they too be saved? The minister replied with a pithy "no."

 

[KarlMarx]

All the slamming of Christianity and no one even looks at the who is killed the most people in the past 100 years. What group of people am I referring to? Atheists!

Atheistic communism was responsible for a minimum of 100 million deaths in the 20th century.

In addition, Hitler and the Nazis wanted to end Christianity and replace it with paganism. Officers in the SS were taught that Christianity was the religion started by the "bastard son of a Jewish harlot" (I am paraphrasing what I heard on a documentary on the SS) and therefore they should not follow its teachings.

People seem to ignore all the good that Christians and Christianity have done in the world. Many Christian missionaries feed and provide medical and other care to millions of people every day. The Catholic Church cares for more AIDS patients than any other organization in the world.

It seems Christianity-bashing has become somewhat fashionable amongst "independent" thinkers!

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by KarlMarx

All the slamming of Christianity and no one even looks at the who is killed the most people in the past 100 years. What group of people am I referring to? Atheists!
Atheistic communism was responsible for a minimum of 100 million deaths in the 20th century. In addition, Hitler and the Nazis wanted to end Christianity and replace it with paganism. Officers in the SS were taught that Christianity was the religion started by the "bastard son of a Jewish harlot" (I am paraphrasing what I heard on a documentary on the SS) and therefore they should not follow its teachings. People seem to ignore all the good that Christians and Christianity have done in the world. Many Christian missionaries feed and provide medical and other care to millions of people every day. The Catholic Church cares for more AIDS patients than any other organization in the world. It seems Christianity-bashing has become somewhat fashionable amongst "independent" thinkers!

Unfortunately Karl more human beings have been killed and tortured in the name of god than all killing and murders by any form of government or atheists by a factor of ten fold.

Your phobia of Christianity bashing is without merit on this fact....

 

[KarlMarx]

Originally posted by ajwps
All the slamming of Christianity and no one even looks at the who is killed the most people in the past 100 years. What group of people am I referring to? Atheists!
Atheistic communism was responsible for a minimum of 100 million deaths in the 20th century. In addition, Hitler and the Nazis wanted to end Christianity and replace it with paganism. Officers in the SS were taught that Christianity was the religion started by the "bastard son of a Jewish harlot" (I am paraphrasing what I heard on a documentary on the SS) and therefore they should not follow its teachings. People seem to ignore all the good that Christians and Christianity have done in the world. Many Christian missionaries feed and provide medical and other care to millions of people every day. The Catholic Church cares for more AIDS patients than any other organization in the world. It seems Christianity-bashing has become somewhat fashionable amongst "independent" thinkers!

Unfortunately Karl more human beings have been killed and tortured in the name of god than all killing and murders by any form of government or atheists by a factor of ten fold.

Your phobia of Christianity bashing is without merit on this fact....

Bologna! Over 100 million people were wiped out by atheistic communists during its single century of existence. Compare that to the number of people that died in religious wars during the same time period and you'll find that the atheists win hands down when it comes to dealing in death (I'm not even counting the Nazis in the 100 million figure). The only reason that "more people have died in the NAME OF GOD" as you put it, is that religion has been around a lot longer than atheistic communism. If atheistic communism and its brethern ideologies had been around since the dawn of civilization, there would be no one left to argue which is worse today. The atheists would have killed us all.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by KarlMarx
Bologna! Over 100 million people were wiped out by atheistic communists during its single century of existence. Compare that to the number of people that died in religious wars during the same time period and you'll find that the atheists win hands down when it comes to dealing in death (I'm not even counting the Nazis in the 100 million figure). The only reason that "more people have died in the NAME OF GOD" as you put it, is that religion has been around a lot longer than atheistic communism. If atheistic communism and its brethern ideologies had been around since the dawn of civilization, there would be no one left to argue which is worse today. The atheists would have killed us all.

These actions were taken in the name of the state, which replaced the godhead...murder in the name of God or in the name of the state...it's all the same thing.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by KarlMarx

Bologna! Over 100 million people were wiped out by atheistic communists during its single century of existence. Compare that to the number of people that died in religious wars during the same time period and you'll find that the atheists win hands down when it comes to dealing in death (I'm not even counting the Nazis in the 100 million figure). The only reason that "more people have died in the NAME OF GOD" as you put it, is that religion has been around a lot longer than atheistic communism. If atheistic communism and its brethern ideologies had been around since the dawn of civilization, there would be no one left to argue which is worse today. The atheists would have killed us all.

A bit selective in our human time span destruction in the name of one's god. You don't seem to want to count the Nazis. You should already be aware that the Nazi murderers killed men, women and children during the week and on Sunday went to their Christian churces with their wives and children. Then on Monday back to the hard work of murdering Jew, Gypsies and many others all in the name of their leader, Adolph Hitler, a great Christian in his own right.

When you say IF Communist atheists had been around since the first recorded days of civilization, you would be partially correct. Atheists (not communists) have been around since recorded history and were killing their fellow man in mass as recorded in ancient texts. But the number of people killed in the name of one particular god or another outnumbers the atheists by that same proportion of more than a power of ten.

If you really want to be time selective, instead of counting the number of murdered humans in the last one hundred years by the 'atheist communists', why not count the numbered of murdered by the 'atheist communists' in the last one and one-half years as compared to those killed in the name of the god allah in all the ethnic people since 09/11?

 

[KarlMarx]

Originally posted by ajwps
A bit selective in our human time span destruction in the name of one's god. You don't seem to want to count the Nazis. You should already be aware that the Nazi murderers killed men, women and children during the week and on Sunday went to their Christian churces with their wives and children. Then on Monday back to the hard work of murdering Jew, Gypsies and many others all in the name of their leader, Adolph Hitler, a great Christian in his own right.

When you say IF Communist atheists had been around since the first recorded days of civilization, you would be partially correct. Atheists (not communists) have been around since recorded history and were killing their fellow man in mass as recorded in ancient texts. But the number of people killed in the name of one particular god or another outnumbers the atheists by that same proportion of more than a power of ten.

No, I am not being selective. Saying that Hitler was a Christian is like saying that the Pope is Jewish. It also is an insult to those Christians e.g. Mother Teresa and others like her who dedicated their lives helping the poor and sick in the name of Christ.

Hitler and the Nazis wanted to demolish Christianity under the Reich and replace it with paganism (in which, of course, Hitler would undoubtedly be considered divine). Hitler and the Nazis imprisoned and murdered thousands of priests, nuns and Christians. Churches were shut down under the Reich if they did not tow the party line. Heinrich Himler (the head of the SS) and many of the Nazi elite were deeply involved in the occult. In fact, many SS ceremonies were taken from ancient pagan rites. The swastika is a symbol taken from the occult, too.

Atheists were never in power until the 20th century. But under Stalin and Lenin, thousands of churches were shut down, many more priests and nuns murdered, people were thrown into prison for practicing their faith (much like what is happening in Communist China and North Korea today!).

The real problem is that when Man gets the idea that he is divine and is not accountable to a higher power (whether it be the Law or to God), he's capable of committing the most heinous atrocities, regardless of whether it is in the name of Christ, God, or Communism. The root of evil is not religion, the root is human nature and arrogance.

P.S. If I were to compare the number of people murdered by atheistic communists to those killed in the name of God since 09/11, I'll wager I'd still win the argument. You seem to conveniently ignore the fact that Communist China, Cuba and North Korea are all atheistic regimes and have millions of people imprisoned and are torturing and murdering many of them. The fact that you don't hear about the atrocities committed by these three countries doesn't mean they aren't happening. Of course, thanks to our media which has a decidedly Left wing slant, you probably won't!

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by ajwps
Adolph Eichmann, murderer of millions of men, women and children, (Jewish and gentile alike) was tried in Israel in 1961. A Protestant minister from Canada who flew to Israel to provide Adolf Eichmann (the architect of the Holacaust) with last rites. Met at the airport by reporters, the minister said that if Eichmann confessed his sins and took on Christ he would be saved. And what about Eichmann's six million Jewish victims? If they died as Jews and without taking on Christ, could they too be saved? The minister replied with a pithy "no."

Its rather sad to see how Christians who dont understand all of the plan of salvation can condemn men so easily.