Putting ideology above country

[NYcarbineer]

That charge gets thrown around a lot, so lets see if it actually applies to someone that, in theory, has the power to make a real difference, if he wants to. A single person in the government that, if he wanted to lead by example, and show a real spirit of compromise, could have ended the debate over the shut down and the debt ceiling long before it reached crisis mode.

What is it that Republicans insisted on? I know the whackadoodles on the left say they wanted to rewrite an existing law, but everyone knows there is nothing legitimate about that complaint. (Anyone who doesn't actually have a brain is free to jump in and explain why negotiating on laws, something that has gone on for 237 years, is suddenly unprecedented and actually worse than the Holocaust, just don't expect me to pay attention.) Basically, they wanted Obama to treat individuals exactly the same way he treats big business. He deleyed the mandate for big business, why not delay it for individuals? After all, we know that Obama is all about the little guy.

The answer to that is pretty simple, big insurance wouldn't stand for it. If they can't force everyone who is healthy to buy insurance, even if they can't afford it, there is no way they can stay in business. Some of the wheeling and dealing that went on recognized this, and at least one of the proposals floated would have compensated insurance companies for the lost revenues from delaying Obamacare a year, and got the money back by tacking an extra year on the tax at the back end. Obama wasn't even willing to accept that compromise. Why not?

Because, ultimately, he thinks he is right. It doesn't matter that everyone from Wolf Blitzer to the guy who wrote the fucking law thinks it needs to be delayed. It doesn't matter that the website sucks so much that traffic to the site is dropping off like the Mount Thor. It doesn't matter that the law is a complete debacle, all that matters to Obama is that he is right. He is willing to put his belief in Obamacare, his ideology, above the good of the country. He told the entire world that, unless Republicans gave into his childish demand, he would take the country into default.

Then he blamed the other guy, just like every spoiled brat in history.

Do you know what 'begging the question' means?

 

[LTCArmyRet]

Ask me how I know that you don't understand what Socialism is.

Ask me how I know you don't.

I do. I've lived in two socialist countries, both in South America. This is not a socialist country, but Chile is.

In Chile if you are in a car accident, regardless of who is at fault, everyone involved pays equally, or else their insurance does.

If anyone is hurt, they are taken to hospital where they have Fonasa, which collects 7% of their income annually to pay for their health care, otherwise known as universal health care. After they get out of the hospital they can return to their jobs because employers are not allowed to fire them for absence from work for a legitimate health problem.

None of the above applies to the U.S. So you are safe. We live in a plutocracy. Happy now?

The only difference between your example and what obamacare is cramming down our throats is there is a middle man paying the tab (i.e. insurance industry). Everyone is (will be ) paying more when the health care premiums skyrocket in accordance with the bean counters in the industry deem is necessary to remain profitable. Eventually, the premiums will rise until EVERYONE has no resort but to go on government assisted (controlled) health plans.

 

[HenryBHough]

I do. I've lived in two socialist countries, both in South America. This is not a socialist country, but Chile is.

In Chile if you are in a car accident, regardless of who is at fault, everyone involved pays equally, or else their insurance does.

If anyone is hurt, they are taken to hospital where they have Fonasa, which collects 7% of their income annually to pay for their health care, otherwise known as universal health care. After they get out of the hospital they can return to their jobs because employers are not allowed to fire them for absence from work for a legitimate health problem.

None of the above applies to the U.S. So you are safe. We live in a plutocracy. Happy now?

So, along with a free Obamaphone and a free Chevy Volt and that cute little EBT card you also want a ticket home? For free?

 

[Katzndogz]

If people really put country above ideology, obama would be in a cell at Gitmo by now.

 

[HenryBHough]

If people really put country above ideology, obama would be in a cell at Gitmo by now.

Impossible! There's nobody at Gitmo. He sent everybody home in January, 2009 exactly as He promised.

Didn't He?

 

[Katzndogz]

If people really put country above ideology, obama would be in a cell at Gitmo by now.

Impossible! There's nobody at Gitmo. He sent everybody home in January, 2009 exactly as He promised.

Didn't He?

No. He doesn't want to send them home. obama wants to bring them all here and give them green cards.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Ask me how I know you don't.

I do. I've lived in two socialist countries, both in South America. This is not a socialist country, but Chile is.

In Chile if you are in a car accident, regardless of who is at fault, everyone involved pays equally, or else their insurance does.

If anyone is hurt, they are taken to hospital where they have Fonasa, which collects 7% of their income annually to pay for their health care, otherwise known as universal health care. After they get out of the hospital they can return to their jobs because employers are not allowed to fire them for absence from work for a legitimate health problem.

None of the above applies to the U.S. So you are safe. We live in a plutocracy. Happy now?

The only difference between your example and what obamacare is cramming down our throats is there is a middle man paying the tab (i.e. insurance industry). Everyone is (will be ) paying more when the health care premiums skyrocket in accordance with the bean counters in the industry deem is necessary to remain profitable. Eventually, the premiums will rise until EVERYONE has no resort but to go on government assisted (controlled) health plans.

Let me take your first point and blast it the hell into space: The insurance industry fucks people over and keeps the premiums. They have lawyers who will squash you.

They can rescind, cancel, waive and deny anything they want and you have the choice to fight and go broke doing so or accept whatever paltry sum they deign to give you.

So let a corporation with a board of shareholders determine if you live and die. But the rest of us want single payer or universal.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

That charge gets thrown around a lot, so lets see if it actually applies to someone that, in theory, has the power to make a real difference, if he wants to. A single person in the government that, if he wanted to lead by example, and show a real spirit of compromise, could have ended the debate over the shut down and the debt ceiling long before it reached crisis mode.

What is it that Republicans insisted on? I know the whackadoodles on the left say they wanted to rewrite an existing law, but everyone knows there is nothing legitimate about that complaint. (Anyone who doesn't actually have a brain is free to jump in and explain why negotiating on laws, something that has gone on for 237 years, is suddenly unprecedented and actually worse than the Holocaust, just don't expect me to pay attention.) Basically, they wanted Obama to treat individuals exactly the same way he treats big business. He deleyed the mandate for big business, why not delay it for individuals? After all, we know that Obama is all about the little guy.

The answer to that is pretty simple, big insurance wouldn't stand for it. If they can't force everyone who is healthy to buy insurance, even if they can't afford it, there is no way they can stay in business. Some of the wheeling and dealing that went on recognized this, and at least one of the proposals floated would have compensated insurance companies for the lost revenues from delaying Obamacare a year, and got the money back by tacking an extra year on the tax at the back end. Obama wasn't even willing to accept that compromise. Why not?

Because, ultimately, he thinks he is right. It doesn't matter that everyone from Wolf Blitzer to the guy who wrote the fucking law thinks it needs to be delayed. It doesn't matter that the website sucks so much that traffic to the site is dropping off like the Mount Thor. It doesn't matter that the law is a complete debacle, all that matters to Obama is that he is right. He is willing to put his belief in Obamacare, his ideology, above the good of the country. He told the entire world that, unless Republicans gave into his childish demand, he would take the country into default.

Then he blamed the other guy, just like every spoiled brat in history.

Do you know what 'begging the question' means?

Why won't GasBag name the law? It's got a name and number and yet he blathers on......and won't nail it.

 

[LTCArmyRet]

I do. I've lived in two socialist countries, both in South America. This is not a socialist country, but Chile is.

In Chile if you are in a car accident, regardless of who is at fault, everyone involved pays equally, or else their insurance does.

If anyone is hurt, they are taken to hospital where they have Fonasa, which collects 7% of their income annually to pay for their health care, otherwise known as universal health care. After they get out of the hospital they can return to their jobs because employers are not allowed to fire them for absence from work for a legitimate health problem.

None of the above applies to the U.S. So you are safe. We live in a plutocracy. Happy now?

The only difference between your example and what obamacare is cramming down our throats is there is a middle man paying the tab (i.e. insurance industry). Everyone is (will be ) paying more when the health care premiums skyrocket in accordance with the bean counters in the industry deem is necessary to remain profitable. Eventually, the premiums will rise until EVERYONE has no resort but to go on government assisted (controlled) health plans.

Let me take your first point and blast it the hell into space: The insurance industry fucks people over and keeps the premiums. They have lawyers who will squash you.

They can rescind, cancel, waive and deny anything they want and you have the choice to fight and go broke doing so or accept whatever paltry sum they deign to give you.

So let a corporation with a board of shareholders determine if you live and die. But the rest of us want single payer or universal.

I'm betting the only thing you could blow into space is your dog, and I'm sure he enjoys it, but no one else does. So, you speak for the rest of the U.S. when you say "the rest of us want single payer?" I think you think too much of yourself. Or I guess you're just like Obama, want to be the lord tyrant and control everything, eh?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, Obama should be ashamed of putting his socialist ideology before the good of the nation.

Strangely (NOT) he doesn't appear to be.

that you don't know what is socialism, HBH.

 

[JakeStarkey]

light bird, you are in the very small minority about this, remember that, troop

 

[KGB]

Ask me how I know that you don't understand what Socialism is.

Ask me how I know you don't.

I do. I've lived in two socialist countries, both in South America. This is not a socialist country, but Chile is.

In Chile if you are in a car accident, regardless of who is at fault, everyone involved pays equally, or else their insurance does.

If anyone is hurt, they are taken to hospital where they have Fonasa, which collects 7% of their income annually to pay for their health care, otherwise known as universal health care. After they get out of the hospital they can return to their jobs because employers are not allowed to fire them for absence from work for a legitimate health problem.

None of the above applies to the U.S. So you are safe. We live in a plutocracy. Happy now?

clearly, you have never lived in Maryland...

 

[ScienceRocks]

50% of the republican party agree's with me...We want our government reopened and our economy to work.

fact...Businesses and advancement of this country are the heart of our economy...NOT some loon that wants us to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Infrastructure, tech, science, education and manufacturing is the future of America.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ask me how I know that you don't understand what Socialism is.

Ask me how I know you don't.

I do. I've lived in two socialist countries, both in South America. This is not a socialist country, but Chile is.

In Chile if you are in a car accident, regardless of who is at fault, everyone involved pays equally, or else their insurance does.

If anyone is hurt, they are taken to hospital where they have Fonasa, which collects 7% of their income annually to pay for their health care, otherwise known as universal health care. After they get out of the hospital they can return to their jobs because employers are not allowed to fire them for absence from work for a legitimate health problem.

None of the above applies to the U.S. So you are safe. We live in a plutocracy. Happy now?

Never said this is a socialist country, did I. It must be the bold font, everyone who uses it sees things that aren't there, and usually is so stupid they think it isn't their fault they keep attacking things that aren't there. Stop the font abuse.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That charge gets thrown around a lot, so lets see if it actually applies to someone that, in theory, has the power to make a real difference, if he wants to. A single person in the government that, if he wanted to lead by example, and show a real spirit of compromise, could have ended the debate over the shut down and the debt ceiling long before it reached crisis mode.

What is it that Republicans insisted on? I know the whackadoodles on the left say they wanted to rewrite an existing law, but everyone knows there is nothing legitimate about that complaint. (Anyone who doesn't actually have a brain is free to jump in and explain why negotiating on laws, something that has gone on for 237 years, is suddenly unprecedented and actually worse than the Holocaust, just don't expect me to pay attention.) Basically, they wanted Obama to treat individuals exactly the same way he treats big business. He deleyed the mandate for big business, why not delay it for individuals? After all, we know that Obama is all about the little guy.

The answer to that is pretty simple, big insurance wouldn't stand for it. If they can't force everyone who is healthy to buy insurance, even if they can't afford it, there is no way they can stay in business. Some of the wheeling and dealing that went on recognized this, and at least one of the proposals floated would have compensated insurance companies for the lost revenues from delaying Obamacare a year, and got the money back by tacking an extra year on the tax at the back end. Obama wasn't even willing to accept that compromise. Why not?

Because, ultimately, he thinks he is right. It doesn't matter that everyone from Wolf Blitzer to the guy who wrote the fucking law thinks it needs to be delayed. It doesn't matter that the website sucks so much that traffic to the site is dropping off like the Mount Thor. It doesn't matter that the law is a complete debacle, all that matters to Obama is that he is right. He is willing to put his belief in Obamacare, his ideology, above the good of the country. He told the entire world that, unless Republicans gave into his childish demand, he would take the country into default.

Then he blamed the other guy, just like every spoiled brat in history.

Do you know what 'begging the question' means?

Every post you make?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That charge gets thrown around a lot, so lets see if it actually applies to someone that, in theory, has the power to make a real difference, if he wants to. A single person in the government that, if he wanted to lead by example, and show a real spirit of compromise, could have ended the debate over the shut down and the debt ceiling long before it reached crisis mode.

What is it that Republicans insisted on? I know the whackadoodles on the left say they wanted to rewrite an existing law, but everyone knows there is nothing legitimate about that complaint. (Anyone who doesn't actually have a brain is free to jump in and explain why negotiating on laws, something that has gone on for 237 years, is suddenly unprecedented and actually worse than the Holocaust, just don't expect me to pay attention.) Basically, they wanted Obama to treat individuals exactly the same way he treats big business. He deleyed the mandate for big business, why not delay it for individuals? After all, we know that Obama is all about the little guy.

The answer to that is pretty simple, big insurance wouldn't stand for it. If they can't force everyone who is healthy to buy insurance, even if they can't afford it, there is no way they can stay in business. Some of the wheeling and dealing that went on recognized this, and at least one of the proposals floated would have compensated insurance companies for the lost revenues from delaying Obamacare a year, and got the money back by tacking an extra year on the tax at the back end. Obama wasn't even willing to accept that compromise. Why not?

Because, ultimately, he thinks he is right. It doesn't matter that everyone from Wolf Blitzer to the guy who wrote the fucking law thinks it needs to be delayed. It doesn't matter that the website sucks so much that traffic to the site is dropping off like the Mount Thor. It doesn't matter that the law is a complete debacle, all that matters to Obama is that he is right. He is willing to put his belief in Obamacare, his ideology, above the good of the country. He told the entire world that, unless Republicans gave into his childish demand, he would take the country into default.

Then he blamed the other guy, just like every spoiled brat in history.

Do you know what 'begging the question' means?

Why won't GasBag name the law? It's got a name and number and yet he blathers on......and won't nail it.

Name what law? Are you hearing voices again? That is another symptom of font abuse.

 

[Amelia]

That charge gets thrown around a lot, so lets see if it actually applies to someone that, in theory, has the power to make a real difference, if he wants to. A single person in the government that, if he wanted to lead by example, and show a real spirit of compromise, could have ended the debate over the shut down and the debt ceiling long before it reached crisis mode.

What is it that Republicans insisted on? I know the whackadoodles on the left say they wanted to rewrite an existing law, but everyone knows there is nothing legitimate about that complaint. (Anyone who doesn't actually have a brain is free to jump in and explain why negotiating on laws, something that has gone on for 237 years, is suddenly unprecedented and actually worse than the Holocaust, just don't expect me to pay attention.) Basically, they wanted Obama to treat individuals exactly the same way he treats big business. He deleyed the mandate for big business, why not delay it for individuals? After all, we know that Obama is all about the little guy.

The answer to that is pretty simple, big insurance wouldn't stand for it. If they can't force everyone who is healthy to buy insurance, even if they can't afford it, there is no way they can stay in business. Some of the wheeling and dealing that went on recognized this, and at least one of the proposals floated would have compensated insurance companies for the lost revenues from delaying Obamacare a year, and got the money back by tacking an extra year on the tax at the back end. Obama wasn't even willing to accept that compromise. Why not?

Because, ultimately, he thinks he is right. It doesn't matter that everyone from Wolf Blitzer to the guy who wrote the fucking law thinks it needs to be delayed. It doesn't matter that the website sucks so much that traffic to the site is dropping off like the Mount Thor. It doesn't matter that the law is a complete debacle, all that matters to Obama is that he is right. He is willing to put his belief in Obamacare, his ideology, above the good of the country. He told the entire world that, unless Republicans gave into his childish demand, he would take the country into default.

Then he blamed the other guy, just like every spoiled brat in history.

You knocked that out of the park!

 

[LTCArmyRet]

light bird, you are in the very small minority about this, remember that, troop

Ummh, really, a small minority? So a 60% disapproval rating of ACHA is a small minority, huh? I think you need to go back to 3rd grade and re-learn what the greater and lesser than symbols actually mean SHIT BIRD!!!

 

[ScienceRocks]

There isn't anything more moderate then Infrastructure, science and tech. fact.

 

[emilynghiem]

That charge gets thrown around a lot, so lets see if it actually applies to someone that, in theory, has the power to make a real difference, if he wants to. A single person in the government that, if he wanted to lead by example, and show a real spirit of compromise, could have ended the debate over the shut down and the debt ceiling long before it reached crisis mode.

What is it that Republicans insisted on? I know the whackadoodles on the left say they wanted to rewrite an existing law, but everyone knows there is nothing legitimate about that complaint. (Anyone who doesn't actually have a brain is free to jump in and explain why negotiating on laws, something that has gone on for 237 years, is suddenly unprecedented and actually worse than the Holocaust, just don't expect me to pay attention.) Basically, they wanted Obama to treat individuals exactly the same way he treats big business. He deleyed the mandate for big business, why not delay it for individuals? After all, we know that Obama is all about the little guy.

The answer to that is pretty simple, big insurance wouldn't stand for it. If they can't force everyone who is healthy to buy insurance, even if they can't afford it, there is no way they can stay in business. Some of the wheeling and dealing that went on recognized this, and at least one of the proposals floated would have compensated insurance companies for the lost revenues from delaying Obamacare a year, and got the money back by tacking an extra year on the tax at the back end. Obama wasn't even willing to accept that compromise. Why not?

Because, ultimately, he thinks he is right. It doesn't matter that everyone from Wolf Blitzer to the guy who wrote the fucking law thinks it needs to be delayed. It doesn't matter that the website sucks so much that traffic to the site is dropping off like the Mount Thor. It doesn't matter that the law is a complete debacle, all that matters to Obama is that he is right. He is willing to put his belief in Obamacare, his ideology, above the good of the country. He told the entire world that, unless Republicans gave into his childish demand, he would take the country into default.

Then he blamed the other guy, just like every spoiled brat in history.

Dear QW: you don't know how much I regretted giving thanks and agreeing with your post.

That is truly sad, as I normally am sympathetic and don't like blaming and faulting people for believing what they are doing is right. I understand how much they truly believe that more good than harm is coming from that, or else they would do otherwise.

I think this whole thing is a collective backlash over the Bush arguments
about rationalizing the costs and damages of the war vs. the benefits.
Now it's Obama and his supporters committing the same namecalling
of discrediting opposition as political instead of hearing and addressing real grievances.

Same with prochoice and prolife sides that seemed to switch midstream,
both justifying their views of ACA using the opposite arguments as before!
Suddenly the prolife side wants choice and to take govt control completely out of the equation.
Suddenly my prochoice friends support compromising freedom in order to serve some greater good,
when that is not what they said about the choice of abortion and weren't willing to compromise freedom at all.

Unless people can see both sides clearly, it looks insane that each side
can only see their way and think the other is "merely opposed for political points"

in both cases there was legitimate opposition, and both times it got hijacked
and twisted politically beyond recognition where it looked like political posturing only.

very sad, and we are all paying for this destructive habit

when the second half of this storm passes, maybe we will pick up the pieces
and rebuild based on hard lessons learned from taking turns bullying one side or the other
instead of investing directly in solutions that would have ended conflicts to begin with.

when we quit discrediting each other and start validating views to hold people responsible for them instead of cutting them down, maybe we will learn to hear what we're missing.