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Not at all. They do - a fact of record. However, on this bill - since the Dems included the public option, they were given fair warning that one of the two independents whom they depend on for that power of cloture would not support it.Lieberman is in favor of a healthcare bill but will join the filibuster if the bill contains the public option and it does. This is nothing new to the Dems. They did not get blindsided by Lieberman on that. Perhaps the Dems should have thought this out a bit better and listened to the other party who said no public option.
Thank goodness that we aren't s single-party state - yet.
So you agree that the Dems don't have the votes for cloture. Thank you.
It sucks when cockiness comes back to bite one in the ass.
Look Article. You want to be right? OK. On this, obviously they do not have the votes. On this, the Dems were given fair warning by one of the independents that a public option would make them lose their power of cloture (which is what I have been saying all along that they have the power of cloture - a fact of record that you just cannot accept for some bizarre reason).Not at all. They do - a fact of record. However, on this bill - since the Dems included the public option, they were given fair warning that one of the two independents whom they depend on for that power of cloture would not support it.So you agree that the Dems don't have the votes for cloture. Thank you.
It sucks when cockiness comes back to bite one in the ass.
They don't have the votes. If they did then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Joe
Lieberman is against the public option because he wants to stick it to the Dems. Joe Lieberman from eight years ago would slap the shit out of present day Joe Lieberman.
LOL I do find it quite hilarious that the right is trying to preach personal responsibility even as they try to hold obama accountable for things that bush started and left undone as he left the WH. That's like blaming the chicken who entered the china shop after the bull had smashed everything and ran out the door.
It's nice that you preach personal responsibility but how about applying it to those who actually deserve it in thsi instance?
Is there someone else in the Presidency that should be accountable? Im all ears if there is someone else who needs to be responsible for the office.
You act as though Bush had unlimited time to finish everything. He didnt. You act as if he didnt have even more obstructionists than Obama. He did. He didnt try to pass the buck. He did what he could. He made some bad choices (no one wont make bad choices) but he was making a geniune effort.
Doing things for the sake of looking good was foreign to President Bush. It's routine for President Obama.
President Obama is the President. No one else is. Bush isnt in office anymore. Its pointless to play the blame game.
You can't just up and leave? The best thing to do right now is give Iraq there country back, we do no good over in Iraq or afghanistan (which 30,000 more troops are being sent). We are putting Americans in more danger for another attack like 9/11 for being there. We do no good policing the world because all it causes is resentment, that's simple stuff man....
LOL so the answer of the right is to cut and run damn the consequences and besides that if we do that NOW and thiings get worse the right can blame obama anyway. LOL
You know I remember back under clinton when W used to preach against nation building and the ill's of the US policing the world and then I heard the right parrot these arguments.
Then W became president and it was as if those arguments never existed in the minds of the right as W did exactly what he used to claim to be against. The right as a whole followed along and made excuses for the flip flop.
So it's quite interesing that NOW that a dem is in office those same arguments that all but disappeared from the right for eight years are now resurfacing as the right tries to attack and criticize a democrat for the same actions they excused when a republican engaged in them.
you sound like a bush supporter from a few years ago....all pro war and pro spending and giving money to big business....
You can't just up and leave? The best thing to do right now is give Iraq there country back, we do no good over in Iraq or afghanistan (which 30,000 more troops are being sent). We are putting Americans in more danger for another attack like 9/11 for being there. We do no good policing the world because all it causes is resentment, that's simple stuff man....
LOL so the answer of the right is to cut and run damn the consequences and besides that if we do that NOW and thiings get worse the right can blame obama anyway. LOL
You know I remember back under clinton when W used to preach against nation building and the ill's of the US policing the world and then I heard the right parrot these arguments.
Then W became president and it was as if those arguments never existed in the minds of the right as W did exactly what he used to claim to be against. The right as a whole followed along and made excuses for the flip flop.
So it's quite interesing that NOW that a dem is in office those same arguments that all but disappeared from the right for eight years are now resurfacing as the right tries to attack and criticize a democrat for the same actions they excused when a republican engaged in them.
i have always been against the war, whether it be Bush or Obama.
Yes Bush actually ran a BRILLIANT campaign in 2000, on exactly what you just said... He did flip flop that whole campaign and his excuse was 9/11 happend... That's Bush for ya... And the Liberal left has been a sorry excuse for an opponent of the war!
We shouldn't "cut and run", that's different then giving Iraq their country back. The longer we stay there the more blowback (do you know what that is?) we cause on the American people. This war could go on for a hundred year! We will never understand political ideology in the Middle East. WE DO NO GOOD BANKRUPTING OURSELVES BY BEING IN THE MIDDLE EAST!
I don't recall Bush blaming Clinton for the mess he left.
I admit. We know that Bush is the source of all our problems, but damn it Obama resolve an issue!!
I'm sorry, this thread is about blame.. Where did you miss that??
Bush is the blame and Obama rightly blames him!! I seriously don't understand this desire to control spending from rebuttlicans when they didn't nothing to curb it on their watch.. They ran up HUGE deficits and dug us into a HUGE hole.. Now they are worried when democrats want to spend a little more to help out the people of this nation.. And they still bitch piss, moan and groan about tax cuts..
Trickle down economics is a complete failure.. How bout trying trickle up now??
Can you tell me when was the last time a President pointed a finger at the last administration? And can you tell me how the hell you create any type of permanent jobs by throwing money into temporary jobs? Maybe you can tell me how the hell we are going to pay for any of this Drunken Sailor Spending? Maybe you can even tell us what policies Bush put into place that caused the recession......
Didn't think so.
That being said, Bush was far from Conservative.
I agree.
And where were you guys during Bushs first year?
Bush OWNS 911 then fellas
There is no American at fault for the attacks of 9-11-01.
I have to say, it's really a mistake to blame Bush and only Bush. The real fault for the mess this country is in belongs to the entire screwy Republican Party. The party of mysticism, anti science, anti middle class, anti education. The political party that the entire world was afraid of and now points and laughs at.
yep....thats it, democrats aren't responsible for a single thing.....
yep....thats it, democrats aren't responsible for a single thing.....
Wrong. When Republicans controlled both houses, the Presidency and had a majority in the Supreme Court, the Democrats were in charge of holding things together as best as possible and defeating the screwy Republicans.
what a whiner....you guys had a majority as far back as 2006....obama went around saying things were fine, we don't need to do anythign to fix the real estate issues like freddie or fannie....
democrats didn't shit....so now you guys act like children and blame anyone but yourselves....
One word - cloture. The Dems have all the power to use it. If they can't get their act together to use it, then they can blame themselves as they have the power.Well just fella, this chart only goes to 2008, the Democratic party took over in early 2007 so how do you arrive at your conclusions? I might add that the last 2 years of the Bush Presidency pretty well screwed him.
1.) The chart shows that the Dems hardly used the filibuster for the majority of Bush's time in office especially when compared to how frequently the GOP used in once in the minority.
2.) The number of filibusters skyrocketed from 2007 on and in case you missed is the filibuster has been the GOPs favorite tool for all of 2009.
You really can't sit there with a straight face and try to dispute that. The GOP is the party of NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Joe Lieberman formally caucuses with the Dems. That is a fact of record. The other independent is a socialist who also formally caucuses with the Dems - another fact of record.[I edited out the whining as I suspected that you might take it personally when it was meant for the congresscritters. I was right.]
Yes, the Dems have complete cloture power - 58 members and two independents who formally caucus with the Dems. So, the Dems DO have the power.
If they can't get their act together to use it, then only THEY are to blame.
No, they don't. Joe Lieberman has made it very clear that he isn't loyal to the Dems and that he will support GOP filibusters.
I'm sorry, this thread is about blame.. Where did you miss that??
Bush is the blame and Obama rightly blames him!! I seriously don't understand this desire to control spending from rebuttlicans when they didn't nothing to curb it on their watch.. They ran up HUGE deficits and dug us into a HUGE hole.. Now they are worried when democrats want to spend a little more to help out the people of this nation.. And they still bitch piss, moan and groan about tax cuts..
Trickle down economics is a complete failure.. How bout trying trickle up now??
Can you tell me when was the last time a President pointed a finger at the last administration? And can you tell me how the hell you create any type of permanent jobs by throwing money into temporary jobs? Maybe you can tell me how the hell we are going to pay for any of this Drunken Sailor Spending? Maybe you can even tell us what policies Bush put into place that caused the recession......
Didn't think so.
That being said, Bush was far from Conservative.
The last time or the last president to do so? The last president to do so before obama would be bush when he constantly claimed that he inherited a recession.
As for the temp jobs even bush created jobs by "throwing money at temp jobs"
As for the drunken sailor spending you righties didn't seem to mind when you were douing the drinking and the spending so why so concerned now?? Oh that's right back then a republican was in charge but now that a dem is in charge it's ok to hold the dem to a different standard. LOL
And where were you guys during Bushs first year?
Bush OWNS 911 then fellas
There is no American at fault for the attacks of 9-11-01.
LOL that's not what the right said when they tried to blame clinton for every terrorist attack or event that happened during, before, or after his presidency. For years the right blamed clinton for ruby ridge when the event took place BEFORE he was even president. Then they blamed clinton for every attack/event that occured on his watch and even tried to blame clinton for 9/11 despite the fact that it happened on W's watch.
Furthermore, as recent as a last week many on the right were trying to blame obama for hasan as they tried to claim it was a terrorist attack so they could argue that obama hasn't kept us safe.
Which reminds me of another hypocrisy of the right when they argued that attacks on our embassies counted as US soil therefore clinton didn't keep the US safe and yet when our embassies were attacked on W's watch the right refused to apply that same standard to W as they tried to claim he kept us safe by fighting them over there so we could be safe over here.
What was there to "puss" about? Bush had a fucking $500 billion surplus to spend!! And spend it he did.
No he didnt. there was never a surplus to begin with.
If that trend continues then he should be blaming Pelosi and Reid when they lose the House and Senate in 2010.
We've been hearing this since 2006..
And rightfully so.....The problems we face now began after the Democrats took over control
of congress in 2006....For most of Bush's Presidency even fighting two wars the economy was in good shape then everything crashes with the Dems in control and then we have to
hear that we have these problems because of Bush's failed polices. The Dems can blame
Bush all they want,The President can whine like a baby that the problems he faces are not
his doing,grow up and start dealing with it and stop crying about it.
hey Avatar , just because you say it's so, doesn't mean shit, would you please add up Bush's 2 wars off the books please
I never claimed that anything is so simply because I said so.
Please tell me how a 10 year projected surplus exists when the figures used to calculate it are incorrect.
yep....thats it, democrats aren't responsible for a single thing.....
Wrong. When Republicans controlled both houses, the Presidency and had a majority in the Supreme Court, the Democrats were in charge of holding things together as best as possible and defeating the screwy Republicans.
Unfortunately the Republicans have gotten even screwier.
What a bunch of nut cases!
Avatar4321 said:We atleast have the decency to give Obama and the Democrats props when they do something correct. It's not our fault the occaision tends to be rare. We also criticize Republicans when they are wrong, which is much more frequently. I've never seen you once criticize a Democrat.
What was there to "puss" about? Bush had a fucking $500 billion surplus to spend!! And spend it he did.
No he didnt. there was never a surplus to begin with.
Bush sure thought there was.
Bush Speech to Congress: 27 Feb 2001
