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Incorrect.Wrong, one must have reasonable grounds for claiming someone lose their rights due to mental illness. If you suspect someone report them and let the authorities decide what to do. In the US one does not have to justify the use of their rights, one must justify taking rights away. Further Psychiatrists do not decide if one loses their rights a Court does that. A Judge must rule you incompetent.In Feb of 2013 a former Marine named Eddie Ray Routh murdered former Navy Seal Chris Kyle and another Veteran Chad Littlefield at a gun range in Texas. The motive was unclear but the attorneys for Routh will base their defense on PTSD. Former Marine Sgt. (wrong way) Tahmooressi ended up in Mexico with a trunk full of weapons. His defense ....PTSD. Wouldn't it be prudent to prevent PTSD patients from possessing deadly weapons until they are cleared by government psychiatrists?
Wrong gunny. The ATF form asks if the applicant is currently undergoing treatment for mental illness. Crazy people are (rightfully) denied permission to purchase a firearm. There is no further judicial review. Now, if the government decides to confiscate weapons it is another issue.
The 4473 asks nothing about currently receiving mental health treatment:
“Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs) OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? (See Instructions for Question 11.f.)”
Only after someone has been afforded due process can an issue of mental health be a factor in determining whether or not one may be allowed possession of a firearm.
Incorrect.Wrong, one must have reasonable grounds for claiming someone lose their rights due to mental illness. If you suspect someone report them and let the authorities decide what to do. In the US one does not have to justify the use of their rights, one must justify taking rights away. Further Psychiatrists do not decide if one loses their rights a Court does that. A Judge must rule you incompetent.In Feb of 2013 a former Marine named Eddie Ray Routh murdered former Navy Seal Chris Kyle and another Veteran Chad Littlefield at a gun range in Texas. The motive was unclear but the attorneys for Routh will base their defense on PTSD. Former Marine Sgt. (wrong way) Tahmooressi ended up in Mexico with a trunk full of weapons. His defense ....PTSD. Wouldn't it be prudent to prevent PTSD patients from possessing deadly weapons until they are cleared by government psychiatrists?
Wrong gunny. The ATF form asks if the applicant is currently undergoing treatment for mental illness. Crazy people are (rightfully) denied permission to purchase a firearm. There is no further judicial review. Now, if the government decides to confiscate weapons it is another issue.
The 4473 asks nothing about currently receiving mental health treatment:
“Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs) OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? (See Instructions for Question 11.f.)”
Only after someone has been afforded due process can an issue of mental health be a factor in determining whether or not one may be allowed possession of a firearm.
You are a liar. PTSD does not always include violence nor mayhem. Further there are no civilian statutes that remove 2nd amendment rights without a court order. By the way dumb ass Federal statutes apply to retired military and to veterans as well as active duty military. A lot of cops have PTSD as well. You are such a fucking liar.Here's the deal, about PTSD. It's sometimes used a cop-out when a member of the Military gets drunk and is arrested in a domestic disturbance. The requirements are so broad that a member of the Military doesn't even have to have been in combat. Cite PTSD and everything goes away. The other PTSD arena has to do with good old Uncle awarding a pension to those Vets. who claim to be so mentally incapacitated and prone to incoherent violence because of their time in the Military that they require compensation from the government. The symptoms of PTSD include violent outbursts and antisocial behavior. The question for society is whether we should allow persons with PTSD to "legally" purchase firearms while federal statutes prevent civilians from obtaining firearms for exhibiting the same behavior.
Be so kind as to point out where in this definition of PTSD it states any of the crap you just spewed?Here's the deal, about PTSD. It's sometimes used a cop-out when a member of the Military gets drunk and is arrested in a domestic disturbance. The requirements are so broad that a member of the Military doesn't even have to have been in combat. Cite PTSD and everything goes away. The other PTSD arena has to do with good old Uncle awarding a pension to those Vets. who claim to be so mentally incapacitated and prone to incoherent violence because of their time in the Military that they require compensation from the government. The symptoms of PTSD include violent outbursts and antisocial behavior. The question for society is whether we should allow persons with PTSD to "legally" purchase firearms while federal statutes prevent civilians from obtaining firearms for exhibiting the same behavior.
PTSD can cause many symptoms. These symptoms can be grouped into three categories:
1. Re-experiencing symptoms
Re-experiencing symptoms may cause problems in a person’s everyday routine. They can start from the person’s own thoughts and feelings. Words, objects, or situations that are reminders of the event can also trigger re-experiencing.
- Flashbacks—reliving the trauma over and over, including physical symptoms like a racing heart or sweating
- Bad dreams
- Frightening thoughts.
2. Avoidance symptoms
Things that remind a person of the traumatic event can trigger avoidance symptoms. These symptoms may cause a person to change his or her personal routine. For example, after a bad car accident, a person who usually drives may avoid driving or riding in a car.
- Staying away from places, events, or objects that are reminders of the experience
- Feeling emotionally numb
- Feeling strong guilt, depression, or worry
- Losing interest in activities that were enjoyable in the past
- Having trouble remembering the dangerous event.
3. Hyperarousal symptoms
Hyperarousal symptoms are usually constant, instead of being triggered by things that remind one of the traumatic event. They can make the person feel stressed and angry. These symptoms may make it hard to do daily tasks, such as sleeping, eating, or concentrating.
- Being easily startled
- Feeling tense or “on edge”
- Having difficulty sleeping, and/or having angry outbursts.
It’s natural to have some of these symptoms after a dangerous event. Sometimes people have very serious symptoms that go away after a few weeks. This is called acute stress disorder, or ASD. When the symptoms last more than a few weeks and become an ongoing problem, they might be PTSD. Some people with PTSD don’t show any symptoms for weeks or months.
Help me out.
Suffering from PTSD officially rightfully gets you some disability, correct?
So does suffering from a missing limb.
Actually a hell of a lot of cops have PTSD. Shall we disarm them too?Almost every freaking person in the Country has experienced traumatic stress at some time in their lives and they don't whine about bad dreams and fast heartbeats. The good people who work in emergency rooms in big cities see more trauma in a month than the average post WW2 Soldier ever did. Modern kids see more realistic trauma courtesy of Hollywood than WW2 Soldiers ever dreamed of. Cops see it close up and in their faces during their careers but if they get drunk and beat up their wives they don't get to cite PTSD, they just lose their jobs and and if they are convicted of misdemeanor domestic abuse they lose their 2nd Amendment right to purchase a gun in most states.
There are few cases of PTSD related shootings. This is one nuts crusade that has no facts to back it up.I guess before I worry about something that is not broken. How many people, cops, military, Bosnians, whoever with PTSD get in trouble with firearms? Seems like it would be more than the general population but I honestly do not know. If it is not a higher percentage then we are doing ok.
There are few cases of PTSD related shootings. This is one nuts crusade that has no facts to back it up.I guess before I worry about something that is not broken. How many people, cops, military, Bosnians, whoever with PTSD get in trouble with firearms? Seems like it would be more than the general population but I honestly do not know. If it is not a higher percentage then we are doing ok.
In Feb of 2013 a former Marine named Eddie Ray Routh murdered former Navy Seal Chris Kyle and another Veteran Chad Littlefield at a gun range in Texas. The motive was unclear but the attorneys for Routh will base their defense on PTSD. Former Marine Sgt. (wrong way) Tahmooressi ended up in Mexico with a trunk full of weapons. His defense ....PTSD. Wouldn't it be prudent to prevent PTSD patients from possessing deadly weapons until they are cleared by government psychiatrists?
Nope doesn't work that way. Once again for the slow and stupid, a JUDGE must rule you incompetent. Just because something disables you does not make you incompetent. I have delusional paranoia and recurring major depression am rated at 70 percent by VA and paid at the 100 percent rate. I can still own possess and carry firearms. And my shrink does not disagree. Nor my therapist.And your point?Help me out.
Suffering from PTSD officially rightfully gets you some disability, correct?
Well at some point if you are suffering PTSD you have said you have mental problems. I am sure there are tons of forms to get the disability from it and a few tests.
Can we just say anyone who is determined to be disabled due to PTSD is ineligible to own a gun? Heck, I'll give PTSD disability victims $1,000 more a year in exchange if that keeps whoever their lobbying group is happy. Lord knows the poor bastards deserve more.
We are talking about two different things. You can be arrested for lying about your mental condition on an ATF form. Surely everyone cares about crazy people buying firearms. The maniac who was responsible for the worst school shooting in history wasn't a Vet but he slipped through the system and was able to purchase firearms even though he was insane because privacy issues about mental illness trumped the safety of citizens. The loophole has been corrected in Virginia and court ordered psychiatric counseling shows up in the instant name check. You can prevent criminals and mental patients from purchasing firearms by the instant name check but it does take a court order to confiscate firearms.
Nope doesn't work that way. Once again for the slow and stupid, a JUDGE must rule you incompetent. Just because something disables you does not make you incompetent. I have delusional paranoia and recurring major depression am rated at 70 percent by VA and paid at the 100 percent rate. I can still own possess and carry firearms. And my shrink does not disagree. Nor my therapist.And your point?Help me out.
Suffering from PTSD officially rightfully gets you some disability, correct?
Well at some point if you are suffering PTSD you have said you have mental problems. I am sure there are tons of forms to get the disability from it and a few tests.
Can we just say anyone who is determined to be disabled due to PTSD is ineligible to own a gun? Heck, I'll give PTSD disability victims $1,000 more a year in exchange if that keeps whoever their lobbying group is happy. Lord knows the poor bastards deserve more.
We are talking about two different things. You can be arrested for lying about your mental condition on an ATF form. Surely everyone cares about crazy people buying firearms. The maniac who was responsible for the worst school shooting in history wasn't a Vet but he slipped through the system and was able to purchase firearms even though he was insane because privacy issues about mental illness trumped the safety of citizens. The loophole has been corrected in Virginia and court ordered psychiatric counseling shows up in the instant name check. You can prevent criminals and mental patients from purchasing firearms by the instant name check but it does take a court order to confiscate firearms.
PTSD does not equate to crazy.
Nope doesn't work that way. Once again for the slow and stupid, a JUDGE must rule you incompetent. Just because something disables you does not make you incompetent. I have delusional paranoia and recurring major depression am rated at 70 percent by VA and paid at the 100 percent rate. I can still own possess and carry firearms. And my shrink does not disagree. Nor my therapist.And your point?
Well at some point if you are suffering PTSD you have said you have mental problems. I am sure there are tons of forms to get the disability from it and a few tests.
Can we just say anyone who is determined to be disabled due to PTSD is ineligible to own a gun? Heck, I'll give PTSD disability victims $1,000 more a year in exchange if that keeps whoever their lobbying group is happy. Lord knows the poor bastards deserve more.
We are talking about two different things. You can be arrested for lying about your mental condition on an ATF form. Surely everyone cares about crazy people buying firearms. The maniac who was responsible for the worst school shooting in history wasn't a Vet but he slipped through the system and was able to purchase firearms even though he was insane because privacy issues about mental illness trumped the safety of citizens. The loophole has been corrected in Virginia and court ordered psychiatric counseling shows up in the instant name check. You can prevent criminals and mental patients from purchasing firearms by the instant name check but it does take a court order to confiscate firearms.
PTSD does not equate to crazy.
Aren't people declared disabled because of it?
What does PTSD usually do to folks?
Nope doesn't work that way. Once again for the slow and stupid, a JUDGE must rule you incompetent. Just because something disables you does not make you incompetent. I have delusional paranoia and recurring major depression am rated at 70 percent by VA and paid at the 100 percent rate. I can still own possess and carry firearms. And my shrink does not disagree. Nor my therapist.Well at some point if you are suffering PTSD you have said you have mental problems. I am sure there are tons of forms to get the disability from it and a few tests.
Can we just say anyone who is determined to be disabled due to PTSD is ineligible to own a gun? Heck, I'll give PTSD disability victims $1,000 more a year in exchange if that keeps whoever their lobbying group is happy. Lord knows the poor bastards deserve more.
We are talking about two different things. You can be arrested for lying about your mental condition on an ATF form. Surely everyone cares about crazy people buying firearms. The maniac who was responsible for the worst school shooting in history wasn't a Vet but he slipped through the system and was able to purchase firearms even though he was insane because privacy issues about mental illness trumped the safety of citizens. The loophole has been corrected in Virginia and court ordered psychiatric counseling shows up in the instant name check. You can prevent criminals and mental patients from purchasing firearms by the instant name check but it does take a court order to confiscate firearms.
PTSD does not equate to crazy.
Aren't people declared disabled because of it?
What does PTSD usually do to folks?
It can be all kinds of things. Depression, difficulty concentrating, difficulty in dealing with day to day living, nightmares, etc. It can be mild or severe. It is not a one size fits all kind of thing. It does not mean someone is a danger to themselves or others. Neither does having a disability mean you are a danger.
You are a liar. PTSD does not always include violence nor mayhem. Further there are no civilian statutes that remove 2nd amendment rights without a court order. By the way dumb ass Federal statutes apply to retired military and to veterans as well as active duty military. A lot of cops have PTSD as well. You are such a fucking liar.Here's the deal, about PTSD. It's sometimes used a cop-out when a member of the Military gets drunk and is arrested in a domestic disturbance. The requirements are so broad that a member of the Military doesn't even have to have been in combat. Cite PTSD and everything goes away. The other PTSD arena has to do with good old Uncle awarding a pension to those Vets. who claim to be so mentally incapacitated and prone to incoherent violence because of their time in the Military that they require compensation from the government. The symptoms of PTSD include violent outbursts and antisocial behavior. The question for society is whether we should allow persons with PTSD to "legally" purchase firearms while federal statutes prevent civilians from obtaining firearms for exhibiting the same behavior.
In Feb of 2013 a former Marine named Eddie Ray Routh murdered former Navy Seal Chris Kyle and another Veteran Chad Littlefield at a gun range in Texas. The motive was unclear but the attorneys for Routh will base their defense on PTSD. Former Marine Sgt. (wrong way) Tahmooressi ended up in Mexico with a trunk full of weapons. His defense ....PTSD. Wouldn't it be prudent to prevent PTSD patients from possessing deadly weapons until they are cleared by government psychiatrists?
In Feb of 2013 a former Marine named Eddie Ray Routh murdered former Navy Seal Chris Kyle and another Veteran Chad Littlefield at a gun range in Texas. The motive was unclear but the attorneys for Routh will base their defense on PTSD. Former Marine Sgt. (wrong way) Tahmooressi ended up in Mexico with a trunk full of weapons. His defense ....PTSD. Wouldn't it be prudent to prevent PTSD patients from possessing deadly weapons until they are cleared by government psychiatrists?
I'm crazy as a fruit house bat and I have a shit load of weapons.[/QUO
Maybe someone who admits to being "crazy as a fruit house bat" is a crazy confessor to criminal possession of illegal weapons or if he has a snoot full of "jack" and wants to fight. Either way I rest my case.
Actually a hell of a lot of cops have PTSD. Shall we disarm them too?Almost every freaking person in the Country has experienced traumatic stress at some time in their lives and they don't whine about bad dreams and fast heartbeats. The good people who work in emergency rooms in big cities see more trauma in a month than the average post WW2 Soldier ever did. Modern kids see more realistic trauma courtesy of Hollywood than WW2 Soldiers ever dreamed of. Cops see it close up and in their faces during their careers but if they get drunk and beat up their wives they don't get to cite PTSD, they just lose their jobs and and if they are convicted of misdemeanor domestic abuse they lose their 2nd Amendment right to purchase a gun in most states.
And to repeat for the slow and amazingly stupid.... It takes a Judge to remove your rights not a doctor.
