pro life vs pro choice

[rightwinger]

I hate the terms pro-life and pro-choice. It dances around the issue which is abortion. Personally, I oppose abortion, I look at it as a permanent solution to a temporary pregnancy.
However, our society, and the world as a whole has made a decision to permit abortions. The cat is out of the bag and is not going back. Patchwork bans will only force women to go places where it is legal or go underground.
As a society, our best option is to eliminate the need for abortion. Abstinence gets laughed at, but kids need to develop skills to handle the pressures to have sex. Birth control needs to be readily available and unwed mothers need a support structure that allows them to carry a baby to term.

 

[editec]

Heaven forbid that people have sex out of wedlock, eh?

Note the word?

WedLOCK?

Pretty much says it all, doesn't it?

We can pass all the legislation we want.

When kids come to adulthood, they are going to have sex.

Life's a real bitch for you puritans, isn't it?

 

[Jackson]

Pro-choice in most situations, but I'm actually quite torn on the issue since recently reading about fetal development. However I believe the woman's right to her body overrules until the fetus is viable; It is, after all, essentially a parasite on her body until that time.

Parasite?

My reaction, exactly!

 

[Immanuel]

13-5 in favor of pro-choice.

Interesting...

Obviously you are claiming the "Depends" crowd are "pro-choice". I would disagree. I would say that they are the ones who are basically Pro-life but have been brow-beat, or might I dare say pussy-whipped, so much that they are not willing to admit that they stand up for life. Oh crap!! You weren't one of the "Depends" crowd were you? If so, no offense!

Of course it would also be a good idea to define the two terms. I view myself as pro-life and voted so, but I also believe their should be some leeway when it comes to fetal abnormalities, the life of the mother and rape. Many who are devoutly "pro-life" would claim that makes me "pro-abortion", which I am not by any means.

BTW: that makes the current count 11-10 in favor of the Pro-life crowd which seems much more accurate based on polling although generally it seems in polls the "pro-choice" crowd has a small lead.

Immie

 

[Cuyo]

Pro-choice in most situations, but I'm actually quite torn on the issue since recently reading about fetal development. However I believe the woman's right to her body overrules until the fetus is viable; It is, after all, essentially a parasite on her body until that time.

Parasite?

My reaction, exactly!

That would be a lot of peoples' reactions, because you, and Mr. Meister, cannot divorce your emotion from the factual basis of the discussion.

 

[Meister]

13-5 in favor of pro-choice.

Interesting...

Obviously you are claiming the "Depends" crowd are "pro-choice". I would disagree. I would say that they are the ones who are basically Pro-life but have been brow-beat, or might I dare say pussy-whipped, so much that they are not willing to admit that they stand up for life. Oh crap!! You weren't one of the "Depends" crowd were you? If so, no offense!

Of course it would also be a good idea to define the two terms. I view myself as pro-life and voted so, but I also believe their should be some leeway when it comes to fetal abnormalities, the life of the mother and rape. Many who are devoutly "pro-life" would claim that makes me "pro-abortion", which I am not by any means.

BTW: that makes the current count 11-10 in favor of the Pro-life crowd which seems much more accurate based on polling although generally it seems in polls the "pro-choice" crowd has a small lead.

Immie

Yep, my vote was depends. I 'm in the pro-life camp except for rape and health reasons. Manifold projected too much from that.

 

[spectrumc01]

I'm pro choice. I truly believe the government needs to stay out of my life and not just my life but everyone elses. This is all part of smaller government, and freedoms. You can't just pick and choose which freedoms we have, this is an all or nothing game. You either believe in freedom or you don't. That freedom includes the choice to carry to term or not. And just like its nobodys business what you do in your backyard, it's nobodys fucking business who does or does not get an abortion.

 

[manifold]

Obviously you are claiming the "Depends" crowd are "pro-choice".

It's not a claim, it's a fact.

Dress it up any way you like, but anyone who concedes that abortion is ok 'depending' on the circumstance, is pro-choice.

 

[manifold]

Now up to 19-6 in favor of pro-choice. That's more like it.

 

[Immanuel]

13-5 in favor of pro-choice.

Interesting...

Obviously you are claiming the "Depends" crowd are "pro-choice". I would disagree. I would say that they are the ones who are basically Pro-life but have been brow-beat, or might I dare say pussy-whipped, so much that they are not willing to admit that they stand up for life. Oh crap!! You weren't one of the "Depends" crowd were you? If so, no offense!

Of course it would also be a good idea to define the two terms. I view myself as pro-life and voted so, but I also believe their should be some leeway when it comes to fetal abnormalities, the life of the mother and rape. Many who are devoutly "pro-life" would claim that makes me "pro-abortion", which I am not by any means.

BTW: that makes the current count 11-10 in favor of the Pro-life crowd which seems much more accurate based on polling although generally it seems in polls the "pro-choice" crowd has a small lead.

Immie

Yep, my vote was depends. I 'm in the pro-life camp except for rape and health reasons. Manifold projected too much from that.

I actually wavered between pro-life and depends, but I wear the pants in... oops here comes my... oh wait, she turned around...

I would not even think about asking any woman who has been told by the doctors that it was her or the baby to choose the baby and yes, everyone, I realize that is a very rare occurrence. Also, when a child has severe abnormalities, I have to realize that some parents may not be able to cope with that, especially when I can think of some instances in which I know I could not cope. And in the case of rape, well, even though if my wife were raped I would want her to keep the child and we would raise it as our own, I don't know that every family or single mother could do that although I would pray they would choose adoption over abortion if they could.

Anyway, because of that, I almost chose "depends" even though I am basically pro-life.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Obviously you are claiming the "Depends" crowd are "pro-choice".

It's not a claim, it's a fact.

Dress it up any way you like, but anyone who concedes that abortion is ok 'depending' on the circumstance, is pro-choice.

No it not a fact, maybe in your mind, but not in reality.

Immie

 

[Toronado3800]

The anti abortion folks come largely from a view which claims to want small federal government. They have an uphill battle creating a fragmented system of county or state laws banning abirtions. I see a century of folks having to drive a few hundred miles for a medical procedure if they ever get any traction.

Folks who are anti abortion sometimes make me nervous with their big brother loving 'no dancing or drinking in my county' laws.

And thise who voted for Ronald, Ronald again, George, the other George, and George again because of their anti abortion stance sure must feel cheated. Thats 22 out of a 30 year stretch where the party of anti abortion was in power and only lip service was paid to the cause. (To be fair, anyone who voted democrat to ban guns should feel cheated also lol)

 

[Iridescence]

I am most definitely pro-life leaning pro-educated-choice. It is one thing to give people choices... quite something else to educate them properly to the point they understand themselves well enough to deal with whatever consequence their 'choices' provoke. There are situational circumstances through which an individual should not ever be forced to carry a child and yet there are also so many other options that could be logically considered. It is not for any government to decide, but rather to perhaps just always keep it so that those that choose to do so can in the most healthy and productive way possible for both themselves and their family. There is a 'darker' side to alternative measures. My thoughts are simple... Nothing should be 'disposed of as trash' when there is obviously viable research and medical/medicinal purposes for such things 'discarded'.

 

[Toronado3800]

I am most definitely pro-life leaning pro-educated-choice. It is one thing to give people choices... quite something else to educate them properly to the point they understand themselves well enough to deal with whatever consequence their 'choices' provoke. There are situational circumstances through which an individual should not ever be forced to carry a child and yet there are also so many other options that could be logically considered. It is not for any government to decide, but rather to perhaps just always keep it so that those that choose to do so can in the most healthy and productive way possible for both themselves and their family. There is a 'darker' side to alternative measures. My thoughts are simple... Nothing should be 'disposed of as trash' when there is obviously viable research and medical/medicinal purposes for such things 'discarded'.

Melissa, are you saying an aborted fetus should have its cells collected and grown into new organs so they are not wasted?

Or are you talking about using the stem cells in the "mass abortion factories" aka fertilization clinics which store thousands of extra fertilized eggs/babies in freezers out of sheer laziness?

Keep in mind I am pro choice here. Just want to clarify.

 

[hipeter924]

Is Abortion murder? Yes, especially since the child has the capacity for life and you are taking away a child's capacity for life. Should it be forbidden then? Women and Men have the right to their own bodies to do as they wish, just as we have the right to eat eggs from abused hens, buy oil on the blood of dead Arabs, sell arms to brutal dictatorships, and tax people against their will. If we are going to start going into the moral sphere over issues like abortion, expect every American soldier in the dock for murder.

 

[Iridescence]

I am most definitely pro-life leaning pro-educated-choice. It is one thing to give people choices... quite something else to educate them properly to the point they understand themselves well enough to deal with whatever consequence their 'choices' provoke. There are situational circumstances through which an individual should not ever be forced to carry a child and yet there are also so many other options that could be logically considered. It is not for any government to decide, but rather to perhaps just always keep it so that those that choose to do so can in the most healthy and productive way possible for both themselves and their family. There is a 'darker' side to alternative measures. My thoughts are simple... Nothing should be 'disposed of as trash' when there is obviously viable research and medical/medicinal purposes for such things 'discarded'.

Melissa, are you saying an aborted fetus should have its cells collected and grown into new organs so they are not wasted?

Or are you talking about using the stem cells in the "mass abortion factories" aka fertilization clinics which store thousands of extra fertilized eggs/babies in freezers out of sheer laziness?

Keep in mind I am pro choice here. Just want to clarify.

It is necessary for eggs and sperm to be frozen from what I have learned so far, but I don't know enough to comment about the fertilized things in freezers out of what you say is sheer laziness. It seems sometimes the vision of 'a freak' may be what potentially saves many from the same. Stem cells are currently in high demand from my understanding because of massive research, or am I mistaken?

The blood, the cells, and anything else collected from an already deceased fetus makes the best sense to me than just 'throwing it in the trash'. It isn't pretty and it isn't comfortable, but it is logical, considering.

 

[Immanuel]

I am most definitely pro-life leaning pro-educated-choice. It is one thing to give people choices... quite something else to educate them properly to the point they understand themselves well enough to deal with whatever consequence their 'choices' provoke. There are situational circumstances through which an individual should not ever be forced to carry a child and yet there are also so many other options that could be logically considered. It is not for any government to decide, but rather to perhaps just always keep it so that those that choose to do so can in the most healthy and productive way possible for both themselves and their family. There is a 'darker' side to alternative measures. My thoughts are simple... Nothing should be 'disposed of as trash' when there is obviously viable research and medical/medicinal purposes for such things 'discarded'.

Melissa, are you saying an aborted fetus should have its cells collected and grown into new organs so they are not wasted?

Or are you talking about using the stem cells in the "mass abortion factories" aka fertilization clinics which store thousands of extra fertilized eggs/babies in freezers out of sheer laziness?

Keep in mind I am pro choice here. Just want to clarify.

It is necessary for eggs and sperm to be frozen from what I have learned so far, but I don't know enough to comment about the fertilized things in freezers out of what you say is sheer laziness. It seems sometimes the vision of 'a freak' may be what potentially saves many from the same. Stem cells are currently in high demand from my understanding because of massive research, or am I mistaken?

The blood, the cells, and anything else collected from an already deceased fetus makes the best sense to me than just 'throwing it in the trash'. It isn't pretty and it isn't comfortable, but it is logical, considering.

The main issue with what it seems you have described is that this leads to abortion mills where women get pregnant in order to sell their "product".

From everything I have read, the stem cells produced by adult tissues seem to be as valuable if not more so than embryonic stem cells.

Here is a pretty decent article that I found on the issue:

Embryonic Stem Cells Vs. Adult Stem Cells, Page 3 of 3 - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com

Adult stem cells, however, are not completely subordinate to ES cells in terms of clinical and laboratory utility. Although adult stem cells harvested from adult organisms are problematic in one sense, they are beneficial in another. If the problem of culturing cells in vitro cold be overcome, adult stem cells would possess a great advantage over ES cells. They would not have the problem of being rejected upon re-implantation into the donor body (that is also the recipient). In addition, adult stem cells do not have the tumorigenic problem of ES cells upon implantation. Using adult stem cells for research and therapy is also advantageous in the sense that embryos do not have to be destroyed in order to extract the experimental cells.

Immie

 

[Meister]

Now up to 19-6 in favor of pro-choice. That's more like it.

Quit being a moron, manifold.

 

[Iridescence]

Melissa, are you saying an aborted fetus should have its cells collected and grown into new organs so they are not wasted?

Or are you talking about using the stem cells in the "mass abortion factories" aka fertilization clinics which store thousands of extra fertilized eggs/babies in freezers out of sheer laziness?

Keep in mind I am pro choice here. Just want to clarify.

It is necessary for eggs and sperm to be frozen from what I have learned so far, but I don't know enough to comment about the fertilized things in freezers out of what you say is sheer laziness. It seems sometimes the vision of 'a freak' may be what potentially saves many from the same. Stem cells are currently in high demand from my understanding because of massive research, or am I mistaken?

The blood, the cells, and anything else collected from an already deceased fetus makes the best sense to me than just 'throwing it in the trash'. It isn't pretty and it isn't comfortable, but it is logical, considering.

The main issue with what it seems you have described is that this leads to abortion mills where women get pregnant in order to sell their "product".

From everything I have read, the stem cells produced by adult tissues seem to be as valuable if not more so than embryonic stem cells.

Here is a pretty decent article that I found on the issue:

Embryonic Stem Cells Vs. Adult Stem Cells, Page 3 of 3 - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com

Adult stem cells, however, are not completely subordinate to ES cells in terms of clinical and laboratory utility. Although adult stem cells harvested from adult organisms are problematic in one sense, they are beneficial in another. If the problem of culturing cells in vitro cold be overcome, adult stem cells would possess a great advantage over ES cells. They would not have the problem of being rejected upon re-implantation into the donor body (that is also the recipient). In addition, adult stem cells do not have the tumorigenic problem of ES cells upon implantation. Using adult stem cells for research and therapy is also advantageous in the sense that embryos do not have to be destroyed in order to extract the experimental cells.

Immie

Thank you for the link to the article.

That would definitely be something that I could not fathom as being productive or logical. I won't go into ranting mode, but there are enough already within the systematic belief of multiplying without regard to support or consequences, 'farming' (of a different kind) seems more necessary after the fact of delivery. Most people refer to some methods of 'farming' as religion and spirituality.

 

[JBeukema]

As a society, our best option is to eliminate the need for abortion.

Whores can get birth control just about anywhere in America

male whores can get free condoms in just about any sizable city

The leading cause of unwanted pregnancy is simple irresponsibility

93 percent of abortions are done out of simple convenience

One-third of all women who go in for an abortion are repeat customers

So, yeah, I call bullshit on your little spiel