Pro-life at 51%

[Cecilie1200]

And I have NEVER heard a woman say "I wish so and so hadn't been born."

But I sure as hell have heard them say "I wish I hadn't had an abortion."

The whole "the child is better off dead" argument is as flat as rainwater, as well, btw. There's no evidence that legalizing abortion has in any way decreased the incidence of child abuse/neglect or even poverty. The kids who are poor were born to mothers who WANTED them, dumbass.

You know what? So what. NO matter how careful people are, accidents can happen. I had a pregnancy scare with my boyfriend last year. We'd been dating for about 6 months, and I missed a period.

Fortunately, I wasn't pregnant, but in that week, I thought about whether or not I could have a baby. At this point in my life, I couldn't. I'm 43, with two kids, and not married. I cannot afford the expense, the time off work, and I don't want to take time away from my kids to raise another baby.

I know for a fact that I'd have aborted.

And you know what? That's well within my rights. I'm more than an egg-incubator. A fetus at 4 weeks is not a human infant. They are not at all the same. Sure that fetus contains the POTENTIAL to become a human infant, but it's not there. It's a tiny cluster of cells.

I miscarried when I was 26. I caught the baby in my hand in the bathroom, after hours of agony. I was 12 weeks pregnant.

I've delivered 2 healthy full term babies.

They are not remotely the same.

If anyone doesn't give a crap about babies, it's GOD. 1/3 of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. Most of the fetuses are too damaged or malformed to survive. Most women who miscarry do so before they are even aware that they are pregnant.

Beyond that, if God cares so much, why does he allow millions of children - every single year - to starve to death?

Being pro-abortion during the first trimester is not the same as being pro-abortion for a late term abortion.

And, I get tired of your inflammatory, judgemental rhetoric, Allie.

You're a self-righteous jerk. I'm tired of the fanatics controlling this discussion, as if they have a right to.

If you would never have an abortion, well-done you. You don't get the right to make that decision for someone else. Nor are you entitled to judge women who choose differently.

Good answers, Cat. And I can empathize with your two situations. I too miscarried (into the toilet). Lots and lots of blood because I was hemorrhaging. The whole bathroom looked like a scene from Saw. Then after 2 healthy children, by then adolescents, I thought I was pregnant again (oops, not by my husband ), and just the pure agony over the decision was enough to postpone my period for a full three months. When I finally saw an OBGYN, he said it's very common for a woman in her late 30's or early 40's to start missing periods, as the ovaries begin to shrink. So I wasn't pregnant after all. Needless to say, it was PARTY TIME!!

Frankly, I think it's mostly MEN who are so anti-abortion and if they ever had to actually give birth themselves, it wouldn't even be an issue.

Well, that'll teach you to think when you're so obviously unqualified. Abortion actually enjoys its greatest support among men in their late teens and twenties, one assumes because they - like you - are self-absorbed narcissists who think of everything solely in terms of how it inconveniences them. Women are more likely to think of a baby as . . . well, a baby.

 

[Cecilie1200]

and your point? you think anyone really wants to stop a multi million dollar business?

The libs certainly don't. Planned Parenthood is their mealticket.

You certainly don't show a lot of sympathy, seeing as you "work with" addicts, homeless, etc. If you have a job, or even volunteer, at a social worker's level, it seems to me you would need to provide your "clients" with all the options, including the MANY services of Planned Parenthood which is NOT solely frequented by "libs."

It's amazing how much easier it is to be sympathetic when you have no actual contact with the objects of sympathy, and how quickly one becomes practical when confronted with the reality, rather than the starry-eyed fantasy of them.

As an example, I work as a process server, and recently started my own business doing this. In order to drum up business quickly, I market to shelters for battered women. I offer them a discount price, knowing that while their circumstances mean that they often need legal papers served, they also mean that they don't have a lot of money available. Other servers I know have offered to serve their papers for free, as a charitable service. They felt so sorry for these women. They quickly stopped doing so when confronted with the reality of the situation, which is that you end up serving an order of protection on the same man every two months, as his battered wife leaves him, then returns to him, then leaves him, then returns. You could go broke being sympathetic in such cases.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Frankly, I think it's mostly MEN who are so anti-abortion and if they ever had to actually give birth themselves, it wouldn't even be an issue.

I think that's probably true. I understand the number used to be something like 80% of anti-choice activists were male.

It's a control thing... the religious right hasn't been able to stand it since the pill was invented.

And the proof of that? The same people who fight re-productive choice don't want birth control made readily available...... or the morning after pill...

and they preach "abstinence only"... which doesn't work. and is the sex version of fire and brimstone.

Then the harlots are supposed to take "responsibility' for their choice while the dads skip town and don't pay child support...

leaving single moms as the largest single group on welfare.

but the people who fight against your right to control what you do with your body also don't want to pay for welfare either.... or for job training... or anything else that would make the lives of these women easier.

because it's all about exacting pennance for their transgressions.

Wow, well-said.

I am pro life (with certain exceptions, most of which were argued here), but most of what you said is spot on. It's true: Most conservatives don't really care about the fetus. It's about the control. They aren't a culture of life. The Republican party is the culture of death.

Thanks for sharing the mind-reading act, Miss Cleo. And the party of death is the party trying to save lives, as opposed to the one supporting the killing of millions of people a year? Talk about your "1984"-style Newspeak. Up is down, war is peace, life is death. And I note the people applauding your "profound" bullshit. Congrats. Definitely the bunch I look for accolades from.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So, it's morally okay to kill a 12 week old baby, but not a 40 week old baby?

Have you not read the writings of the noted and greatly admired (among leftists) bioethicist, Peter Singer? He apparently thinks it should be okay to kill any baby whose parents don't think he is adding enough "total happiness" to their world. What's shocking isn't that there's an outrageous nutball out there, but that leftists venerate him and give him a prestigious post at Princeton University.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Like I said... it's about the other human life involved.. not about your vagina.. you want to concrete up your vagina, carve it out, or turn it into a party room... all well and good...

OR, since you are the ultimate gatekeeper, enjoy the prerogative that your bra burning ancestors fought for and stop letting irresponsible decision turn your vagina into a trash receptacle at the park.

Has extreme vagina envy turned Shogun and Diamond Dave into a couple of very bitter bitches?

It appears to me that both of them like to think they're unwilling co-participants in the whole pregnancy thing. How many women posting here, as younger and more fantasy prone romantics, ever heard the words breathlessly whispered "I'll pull out--I PROMISE!!"

Then they don't, leaving the girl to agonize for another month while the boy goes about his merry way.

Well, I never heard those words, because I wasn't stupid enough to get to that point, anyway. I never trusted the man to handle the birth control, and if I were a man, I wouldn't trust the woman to. It's MY life and future, so it's not too much to expect ME to handle it.

On the other hand, I'd be a lot more leery as a man than as a woman in regards to the fact that once it happens, the guy is helpless and his future is completely out of his control.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Who the hell promotes abortion? I know of several women who have had abortions, and not one of them enjoyed the experience one iota...

Federal dollars asswipe! If a woman wants an abortion then make it expensive like an elective surgery and they foot the bill not the fucking tax payers! Maybe if it's expensive little molly and joey will take more precautions....you're a moron.

Explain how taxpayers foot the bill for abortions. Planned Parenthood may get some grant money, but that's funding already allocated for a myriad of similar community health programs.

Just because Roe v. Wade made abortion legal hardly means the procedure is automatically government funded. Hello?

Man, you'll just believe any pap they feed you, won't you? Do you ever plug in your brain and THINK about what you're saying?

"The government gives Planned Parenthood money, but it goes for other stuff." Yes, and then the money that's freed up by using the government money goes for abortions and the promotion of abortion. So how is that different from the government simply funding abortions directly? When corporations try that sort of money-shifting shell games, leftists scream in outrage. When abortion clinics do it, you just smile and say, "See? The government funds OTHER STUFF, not abortions."

Give me a break.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It appears to me that both of them like to think they're unwilling co-participants in the whole pregnancy thing. How many women posting here, as younger and more fantasy prone romantics, ever heard the words breathlessly whispered "I'll pull out--I PROMISE!!"

Then they don't, leaving the girl to agonize for another month while the boy goes about his merry way.

and yet, by THAT point you've already failed in that little thing we call responsibility. What man has ever forced his dick into you to the point of promising to pull out? Hell, pregnancies ALREADY provide a net profit via child support. How the fuck do you fathom that promising to pull out invalidates your CHOICE TO ALLOW THE PENIS INTO YOUR VAG IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE? Or, without condoms, spermacidal lube and a fucking diaphragm? You are hardly a damsel in pregnant distress here. Again, enjoy your PRE-ZIPPER choice. If that means that you don't get to feed your self esteem through giving unprotected pussy away then, I guess, there are always mechanical options for you.

Good SEX is often spontaneous, even though the female AND the male carry protection just in case. But it doesn't come with a set of rules that the two parties must first discuss and then ponder over the final decision. Ever had sex yourself? Obviously at least not until you found someone willing to get out the directions first. Your rant allows for NO margin of error when emotions and libidos peak.

It actually scares me that you're wandering around out there, never knowing from one minute to the next whether or not you're going to have sex, apparently just randomly falling onto penises out of nowhere. Sex doesn't come with a set of rules the two parties must discuss? Seriously? You seriously become physically intimate with people without first having any conversation with them about it ahead of time? Hell, I employ more planning just in having coffee with someone than you appear to in having sex with them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So it's a woman's fault if they trust a man but not a man's fault for being untrustworthy?

She was speaking about getting so caught up in things that you just can't say 'no', therefore you have to have the ability to do away with the consequences should there be any. Why is it okay for the female to get so caught up in things that it totally takes priority over everything, inclusing the risk of getting pregnant. But, now you're saying that the guy is untrustworthy if he is equally caught up in the moment and doesn't pull out? Hypocrisy much? It's YOUR body, as I've heard ad nauseum, you are responsible for what you put into it and how you allow it to get there, but now you want to conveniently shift all the responibility to the guy? Are you ever responsible for anything?

Once again, where have I shifted "ALL" the responsibility to the guy? I made one fucking comment on a very common occurrence. ONE. When a guy says "I'll pull out" and at 180 pounds is on top of a woman weighing 115 pounds, it's kinda hard to start SHOVING HIS FAT ASS OFF when it becomes obvious he has no intention of pulling out.

It ain't rocket science. (But it IS the weight of gravity compounded by the frenzy of the moment.)

What kind of ignorant frigging bimbo waits until there's a 180-pound man on top of her to discuss birth control? Frenzy of the moment? Ain't no moment THAT frenzied.

 

[Shogun]

and yet, by THAT point you've already failed in that little thing we call responsibility. What man has ever forced his dick into you to the point of promising to pull out? Hell, pregnancies ALREADY provide a net profit via child support. How the fuck do you fathom that promising to pull out invalidates your CHOICE TO ALLOW THE PENIS INTO YOUR VAG IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE? Or, without condoms, spermacidal lube and a fucking diaphragm? You are hardly a damsel in pregnant distress here. Again, enjoy your PRE-ZIPPER choice. If that means that you don't get to feed your self esteem through giving unprotected pussy away then, I guess, there are always mechanical options for you.

Good SEX is often spontaneous, even though the female AND the male carry protection just in case. But it doesn't come with a set of rules that the two parties must first discuss and then ponder over the final decision. Ever had sex yourself? Obviously at least not until you found someone willing to get out the directions first. Your rant allows for NO margin of error when emotions and libidos peak.

It actually scares me that you're wandering around out there, never knowing from one minute to the next whether or not you're going to have sex, apparently just randomly falling onto penises out of nowhere. Sex doesn't come with a set of rules the two parties must discuss? Seriously? You seriously become physically intimate with people without first having any conversation with them about it ahead of time? Hell, I employ more planning just in having coffee with someone than you appear to in having sex with them.

SPACE HERPES!

 

[Neser Boha]

What kind of ignorant frigging bimbo waits until there's a 180-pound man on top of her to discuss birth control? Frenzy of the moment? Ain't no moment THAT frenzied.

... said the frigid bitch...

 

[Shogun]

What kind of ignorant frigging bimbo waits until there's a 180-pound man on top of her to discuss birth control? Frenzy of the moment? Ain't no moment THAT frenzied.

... said the frigid bitch...

being responsible doesn't equal being frigid. I bet you'd put a little more time into being responsible if you were about to jump out of a fucking plane. Clearly, someone must have developed a cure for AIDS in Aurope given your disinterest in the topic of responsibility.

 

[Neser Boha]

What kind of ignorant frigging bimbo waits until there's a 180-pound man on top of her to discuss birth control? Frenzy of the moment? Ain't no moment THAT frenzied.

... said the frigid bitch...

being responsible doesn't equal being frigid. I bet you'd put a little more time into being responsible if you were about to jump out of a fucking plane. Clearly, someone must have developed a cure for AIDS in Aurope given your disinterest in the topic of responsibility.

Yeah, it doesn't. But that's not the point.

I'm sick of you people sitting on your fucking high horse acting like you've never made a mistake in your life... It's so fucking dishonest!

As I said earlier - what I would or wouldn't do doesn't matter in this discussion - it's about what others CAN do. What they SHOULD be able to do is to have a CHOICE.

And don't tell me that getting an abortion isn't a traumatic and haunting experience - a consequence of its own... Either way - keeping the fetus or not - the ones being irresponsible will face consequences.

I just don't want a group of self-righteous dishonest fuckfaces dictating what one can or CANNOT LEGALY DO.

Howgh.

And yeah... I dislike Cecilie and will always make offensive little remarks aimed at her.

 

[Shogun]

YOu have a choice.... BEFORE you fuck. Just like you have a choice BEFORE you shott someone in the head with a .32. I never said an abortion wasn't traumatic for the woman.. but, guess who ELSE it's pretty fucking traumatic for? Thats right... fetus jelly that would have othewise been a distinct human being.

MAKE A MISTAKE? Buying a lemon car is a mistake. Ordering sausage when you wanted bacon is a mistake. SHOTTING SOMEONE IS THE FACE IS NOT A MISTAKE. Neither is using what you seem to think is disposable life as an excuse for irresponsibility. Seriously, in this decade AFTER the AIDS generation you might want to rethink your position before yuo become a public service announcement.


And, I hate to break it to you.. but the very nature of laws themselves are exactly that: people telling what you can or cant do. Next time someone cuts you off on the highway go shoot them in the face with a .32 and see what anyone cares about your right to choose.


dishonest, indeed.

 

[DiamondDave]

YOu have a choice.... BEFORE you fuck. Just like you have a choice BEFORE you shott someone in the head with a .32. I never said an abortion wasn't traumatic for the woman.. but, guess who ELSE it's pretty fucking traumatic for? Thats right... fetus jelly that would have othewise been a distinct human being.

MAKE A MISTAKE? Buying a lemon car is a mistake. Ordering sausage when you wanted bacon is a mistake. SHOTTING SOMEONE IS THE FACE IS NOT A MISTAKE. Neither is using what you seem to think is disposable life as an excuse for irresponsibility. Seriously, in this decade AFTER the AIDS generation you might want to rethink your position before yuo become a public service announcement.


And, I hate to break it to you.. but the very nature of laws themselves are exactly that: people telling what you can or cant do. Next time someone cuts you off on the highway go shoot them in the face with a .32 and see what anyone cares about your right to choose.


dishonest, indeed.

Precisely, shog... that is the basis of having laws... to legally set down what you can and cannot do in society

And lord knows what this ignorant euro cannot understand is that we have have, and will continue to, make mistakes.. the key is people who take responsibility for their mistakes and act right with the consequences to those mistakes...

 

[AllieBaba]

And establishing a norm which establishes guidelines to help prevent those mistakes.

If we just lower the standards everytime someone makes a mistake, we'd be savages. People make mistakes and murder people. Well then, murder should be legal. People make mistakes and drive drunk. Legalize drinking and driving! People make mistakes and hit their kids. It should no longer be illegal, then!

Which is exactly where we're headed.

 

[Anguille]

ahh yes.. when push comes to shove.. blame some testicles.

Do you have a persecution complex or are you just resorting to intentionally misinterpreting what I said in order to give yourself the illusion of having made a point?

 

[Shogun]

ahh yes.. when push comes to shove.. blame some testicles.

Do you have a persecution complex or are you just resorting to intentionally misinterpreting what I said in order to give yourself the illusion of having made a point?

You made a point beyond deflecting blame at a pair of testicles? I guess I was too busy reading the tampon box to notice.

 

[We Are They]

Allie, admit it, you're pro-no choice. We should force everyone to have their babies? That's laughable.

 

[jeffrockit]

You have no idea what people's situations are or how they handle them. Sometimes it's better to not be born than to be born into terrible situations.

And that circumstance should have been thought about before unprotected sex. If you are not stable enough to have a child, what makes you stable to have the relationship that results in a pregnancy?

 

[jeffrockit]

Abortion is one of those issues where commonsense loses out.

We have a president who wants to "just get along" and agree to disagree on abortion when he is in favor of letting minors obtain abortions without parental notification or consent. who disagrees with providing medical care for those fetuses that happen to survive late term abortion procedures thereby denying what all of us would call a living breathing child life saving medical care.

minors cannot get a tattoo, cannot vote etc and parents are more often than not held responsible for the misdeeds of their minor children but we have a government that favors handing out birth control pills to 8th graders and supports providing invasive, potentially dangerous surgical procedures to minors with absolutely no parental notification or consent all for the sake of abortion rights.

Kids can't even bring Advil to school for fear of being strip searched and expelled but birth control and abortion are provided carte blanche.

Women can abandon children with no legal repercussions under safe haven laws but a child surviving a late term abortion is left to suffer and die without medical care.

Does no one see the problem here?

Absolutely -- the biggest of which is the government. Let people, including parents and their children, in consultation with their own medical professionals handle their own problems/decisions.

Unfortunately by having an unwanted pregnancy, they have proven that they can't make the right decisions. Some people are just too stupid to to use contraception.