Princeton: The US Government is Now an Oligarchy.

[kaz]

You think just publicly funding elections will do away with vote buying? Seriously? Wow, you're naive.

How so? Unless you're talking out and out bribery, which I'm not. I'm talking about soliciting campaign funds and making expensive promises to get the money.

First of all, as you give government ubiquitous power, just to believe that money won't seek to control that power and the more power government has the harder people with money will work to control it is just ridiculously naive.

So ways that they do that sort of thing now after giving money directly to candidates is to run campaign issue adds rather than candidate ads. There is always a way around your stupid government laws and we always find it. There are so many ways to get money to candidates and support their candidacy to influence their support.

So seriously, government is controlled by the rich, and you just think we publicly fund campaigns and the rich will say oh crap and walk away? Seriously? You believe that?

 

[Iceweasel]

The rich pay most of the taxes. How is that going to get money out of politics? You think politicians are going to cut off their cash flow? That would make it far worse.

I don't see how who pays the taxes effects what I have to say. I'm talking about money being given out evenly to candidates meeting a certain threshold of votes in preliminary elections. Candidates would get their positions out through publicly sponsored open-mike events and televised debates . All of this may take several rounds of votes, but would eliminate the need to go hat-in-hand to make expensive promises to special interests, whether they be business, labor, racial, ethnic, etc.

I'll try it slower. If the rich are paying most of the taxes, and they are, would politicians then be less inclined to pass legislation that hurts them? Or more inclined to help them?

 

[The2ndAmendment]

So, are the Grubers of Princeton going to advocate to return to the Constitution, or push for bigger government to fix their discovery?

 

[JakeStarkey]

A good step is to make all donations transparent and to make all ads transparent.

 

[konradv]

First of all, as you give government ubiquitous power, just to believe that money won't seek to control that power and the more power government has the harder people with money will work to control it is just ridiculously naive.So ways that they do that sort of thing now after giving money directly to candidates is to run campaign issue adds rather than candidate ads. There is always a way around your stupid government laws and we always find it. There are so many ways to get money to candidates and support their candidacy to influence their support. So seriously, government is controlled by the rich, and you just think we publicly fund campaigns and the rich will say oh crap and walk away?

Am I being naive or are you just giving up? If third party ads were outlawed for a given time before elections, that would clear up one concern. Making the penalties severe for undermining the laws would put a damper on a lot of shenanigans. Nothing's perfect, but you'd need to prove that the current system is better than what I propose to convince me. People trying to game the system is a given, but it doesn't prove that I've got a bad idea.

 

[konradv]

I'll try it slower. If the rich are paying most of the taxes, and they are, would politicians then be less inclined to pass legislation that hurts them? Or more inclined to help them?

You can be a slow as you like, you're question still doesn't make much sense. What would politicians have to gain, if the rich can't contribute to their campaigns?

 

[georgephillip]

Obama is a neo-liberal?
I have never heard that before.Is this a new term from the intelligentsia?

What else would you call another Wall Street presidency, a signature drone presidency, and another national security presidency?

Cornel West:

"'It turned out that he’s just another neoliberal centrist with a smile and with a nice rhetorical flair,' Mr. West said. 'And that’s a very sad moment in the history of the nation because we are — we’re an empire in decline … You would think that we needed somebody — aLincoln-like figure who could revive some democratic spirit and democratic possibility.'

“It was like, ‘We finally got somebody who can help us turn the corner.’ And he posed as if he was a kind of Lincoln,” he said. 'And we ended up with a brown-faced Clinton. Another opportunist. Another neoliberal opportunist.'”

Cornel West Obama just another neoliberal opportunist - Washington Times

 

[Iceweasel]

You can be a slow as you like, you're question still doesn't make much sense. What would politicians have to gain, if the rich can't contribute to their campaigns?

Nothing. That's the point.

 

[konradv]

You can be a slow as you like, you're question still doesn't make much sense. What would politicians have to gain, if the rich can't contribute to their campaigns?

Nothing. That's the point.

You better explain yourself better. That tells me nothing.

 

[Iceweasel]

You better explain yourself better. That tells me nothing.

I know. Please don't vote.

 

[Contumacious]

Cambridge Journals Online - Perspectives on Politics - Abstract - Testing Theories of American Politics Elites Interest Groups and Average Citizens

Many people understand it, but not many people actually label it.

But everything is clear enough. Politicians trade votes for money, and their policy shows that. Policy is now written with only the rich in mind, not the people and the country's best interests.

Really?

Why is that?

Doesn't the parasitic majority vote?

.

 

[georgephillip]

You forgot labor unions (especially public employees), whose impact dwarfs all others

Democratic impact or dollar impact?

 

[NYcarbineer]

America has become an oleogarchy,

now that the voters have become margarinized.

 

[konradv]

You better explain yourself better. That tells me nothing.

I know. Please don't vote.

You seem to have trouble getting your points across. Why should I be the one that doesn't vote? I'm not a mind reader. Why should a little more in depth explanation of your position throw you for such a loop? You're not one of those low-information voters, are you? Or is the problem that you haven't had anyone to tell you what to think on this topic. Call Rush, maybe he'll tell you what you think.

 

[konradv]

America has become an oleogarchy,
now that the voters have become margarinized.

The cis and trans do seem to be talking past each other these days.

 

[NYcarbineer]

America has become an oleogarchy,
now that the voters have become margarinized.

The cis and trans do seem to be talking past each other these days.

I Can't Believe It's Not Democracy is the new spread.

 

[konradv]

America has become an oleogarchy,
now that the voters have become margarinized.

The cis and trans do seem to be talking past each other these days.

I Can't Believe It's Not Democracy is the new spread.

Ah yes, the favorite of the Putin fans.

 

[Iceweasel]

You better explain yourself better. That tells me nothing.

I know. Please don't vote.

You seem to have trouble getting your points across. Why should I be the one that doesn't vote? I'm not a mind reader. Why should a little more in depth explanation of your position throw you for such a loop? You're not one of those low-information voters, are you? Or is the problem that you haven't had anyone to tell you what to think on this topic. Call Rush, maybe he'll tell you what you think.

You call him. He gets paid for entertaining audiences. Explaining how politicians aren't going to vote against the people that feed them would be fun. I said that the rich pay most of the taxes so it is they who would be funding the campaigns. I can't break it down any smaller for you but Rush is a trained professional and it might be worth a shot.

 

[kaz]

First of all, as you give government ubiquitous power, just to believe that money won't seek to control that power and the more power government has the harder people with money will work to control it is just ridiculously naive.So ways that they do that sort of thing now after giving money directly to candidates is to run campaign issue adds rather than candidate ads. There is always a way around your stupid government laws and we always find it. There are so many ways to get money to candidates and support their candidacy to influence their support. So seriously, government is controlled by the rich, and you just think we publicly fund campaigns and the rich will say oh crap and walk away?

Am I being naive or are you just giving up? If third party ads were outlawed for a given time before elections, that would clear up one concern. Making the penalties severe for undermining the laws would put a damper on a lot of shenanigans. Nothing's perfect, but you'd need to prove that the current system is better than what I propose to convince me. People trying to game the system is a given, but it doesn't prove that I've got a bad idea.

Strawman, where did I ever say I was "giving up?"

Your solution is to give government ubiquitous power then try to keep people with money from controlling it and you believe then politicians will act in the common man's interest instead of the rich. Naivete on top of naivete. Politicians are in this for power, not to help you. They want careers after politics. To think that removing direct money will either make them care about you or act in your interested is just a fairy tale.

My solution is to dramatically reduce the size and power of government, That will dramatically reduce that which government is capable of controlling.

.

 

[DriftingSand]

Cambridge Journals Online - Perspectives on Politics - Abstract - Testing Theories of American Politics Elites Interest Groups and Average Citizens

Many people understand it, but not many people actually label it.

But everything is clear enough. Politicians trade votes for money, and their policy shows that. Policy is now written with only the rich in mind, not the people and the country's best interests.

Obama's sweeping "executive orders" become "law" to appease the rich? Tell that to the millions of poor illegals who are about to benefit by sucking the blood from America's taxpayers.