Prigozhin: What happens next?

[Bleipriester]

Hardly, Prigozhin virtually surrendered to Putin and I doubt any would stand behind him anymore.

His tinfoil news told him otherwise.

 

[JohnDB]

We don't have a clue as to why this ended this way....nobody does except Lukashenko and Prigozhin.

The very things that Prigozhin marched to Moscow to stop, he gave in exchange for amnesty and pardons?

All of his supporters and followers left holding an empty bag?
Like they really are going to accept that?

Like it or not Putin, you have a civil war coming. The very foundations your empire is built on are crumbling and soon will be gone. This is not over yet....the mutinies are just beginning IMHO.

 

[hjmick]

Prigozhin will fall to his death before the year is out...

 

[Ringo]

If Prigozhin would be the defense minister the war would be finished within 2 weeks maximally

All that Prigozhin has to his credit is the storming of Artemivsk(Bahmut) with its townships, which cannot be compared to the storming of Mariupol in terms of scale, time or losses. As of now, the army is successfully repulsing the "decisive" attack by the ukrainians, while the Prigozhin army was resting (until yesterday). What the Wagners are superior to the army in is the PR efforts of the "war correspondents".

 

[rightwinger]

Hardly, Prigozhin virtually surrendered to Putin and I doubt any would stand behind him anymore.

What does Putin do now?

He can’t trust Wagner and his own troops are too incompetent to carry on the fight

 

[JohnDB]

What does Putin do now?

He can’t trust Wagner and his own troops are too incompetent to carry on the fight

He can't trust his own troops and National Guard either....many joined Prigozhin.
Prigozhin started with less than 100 vehicles....he stopped with over 400. Many have taken to Social Media to complain about him stopping.

 

[rightwinger]

He can't trust his own troops and National Guard either....many joined Prigozhin.
Prigozhin started with less than 100 vehicles....he stopped with over 400. Many have taken to Social Media to complain about him stopping.

Which all comes down to the low morale of the invading Russian forces.
Poor logistics support, bad food, no recreation, poor leadership, no support……They have had enough

 

[Ringo]

The Russian president is somewhat mistaken about the collective West. Former White House staffer Paul Craig Roberts came to this conclusion.

Roberts recalled that a few months ago U.S. representatives said that they were not going to deliver fighters to Ukraine. And now NATO member states are already seriously talking about Kiev receiving American F-16 fighters. The former White House staffer is sure that such a reckless provocation of the West will lead to a significant expansion of the conflict.

Meanwhile, the American expert is surprised by Russia's reaction, which continues to take this development quite calmly. Roberts thinks: the president of Russia might still expect the West to come to its senses before it is too late. And therein lies the Russian leader's main delusion about his NATO opponents.

"Putin thinks there is a fundamental good somewhere in the West that will establish itself before the fateful step is taken," shares a U.S.-based political expert.
According to him, it is a mistake to reason this way, because Washington is insane and does not understand the consequences of its actions. Roberts says the West's lack of this understanding is even worse than the Russian side's delusion. The level of аmerican military propaganda against Russia today is incredibly high, and all the agreements reached between Washington and Moscow in previous years are abandoned ruins.

 

[rightwinger]

The Russian president is somewhat mistaken about the collective West. Former White House staffer Paul Craig Roberts came to this conclusion.

Roberts recalled that a few months ago U.S. representatives said that they were not going to deliver fighters to Ukraine. And now NATO member states are already seriously talking about Kiev receiving American F-16 fighters. The former White House staffer is sure that such a reckless provocation of the West will lead to a significant expansion of the conflict.

Meanwhile, the American expert is surprised by Russia's reaction, which continues to take this development quite calmly. Roberts thinks: the president of Russia might still expect the West to come to its senses before it is too late. And therein lies the Russian leader's main delusion about his NATO opponents.

"Putin thinks there is a fundamental good somewhere in the West that will establish itself before the fateful step is taken," shares a U.S.-based political expert.
According to him, it is a mistake to reason this way, because Washington is insane and does not understand the consequences of its actions. Roberts says the West's lack of this understanding is even worse than the Russian side's delusion. The level of аmerican military propaganda against Russia today is incredibly high, and all the agreements reached between Washington and Moscow in previous years are abandoned ruins.

The West has handled the situation correctly.
Punishing Russia and supporting Ukraine

As Ukraine has shown itself more capable of fighting, they have been given better weapons

 

[JohnDB]

Which all comes down to the low morale of the invading Russian forces.
Poor logistics support, bad food, no recreation, poor leadership, no support……They have had enough

That explains the guys from the front lines but not the National Guard, border patrol or police who also joined in....Prigozhin literally had a police escort the whole way.

No matter what...Putin just realized his plate is a LOT fuller than he thought.

Speaking of full plates....
Lukashenko and Belarus?

What is going on there?
They now hold Russian Nukes and Prigozhin? They almost had a coup theirselves yesterday when they thought they were going to lose Putin's boot from their neck....another rebellion in the making?

 

[Litwin]

Russian

Russian "voenkor" Irina Kuksenkova says she has no words regarding IL-22 crush: According to updated data from Wagner, it was not IL-18 but IL-22 that was shot down near Voronezh. There were 10 people on board. When Prigozhin was already asked in the Headquarters of the South Military District why, because this aircraft does not make strikes, but performs other functions, he said - the fool in the column shot down everything that takes off ... Prigozhin agreed to pay 50 million compensation to the relatives of the dead pilots. I have no words.

 

[Ringo]

As Ukraine has shown itself more capable of fighting, they have been given better weapons

The next time the U.S. gets into another military adventure, maybe its adversaries will get "better weapons" from those who support them. Although.... as history shows AК is enough for U.S. adversaries.

 

[strollingbones]

He is going to Belarus where he will die of a mysterious illness

Posion is hardly a mysterious illness

 

[MisterBeale]

Putin will gone before the end of the year.

I didn't think Biden would last his full term either. . . . I wouldn't place a bet on this.

It very well could be, both Putin and Prigozhin, will have resolved their differences by years end, and any who marched with Prigozhin, will be rotting in a grave.

 

[MisterBeale]

Definitively NOPE, a corrupted coward from the bunker can't allow being screwed up so drastically like yesterday

You have a bunch of criminals and convicts, who have seen the worst fighting of the war, who have all been promised glory and freedom if they will serve Russia, and now?

. . . . . . .

They will all most certainly be plagued with permanent mental instability and shell shock for the rest of their lives. Each and everyone of them is a threat to society, just as when over in the states, during the COVID pandemic, the leaders here, purposely released convicts from prison, and then used them first in BLM riots, and then for that J6 clown show.

Its all political theater. If they lead them to the slaughter now, so they don't have to deal with them later, one by one, individually, it would not in the least surprise me, for all of them, are as much a threat to the state, as NATO is. . . .

IT is important to remember, Prigozhin, is/was a close confident and friend of Putin. . . the whole thing could be just show, the west has a tendency to gas-light itself into believing what it wants to believe.

Go back and read your Sun Tzu and your Machiavelli.

 

[Litwin]

What does Putin do now?

He can’t trust Wagner and his own troops are too incompetent to carry on the fight

BBC: "What was your rank, soldier?"
Average Wagner SS conscript: "I think the judge called it First Degree Murder, Armed Robbery and Sexual Assault ...and the medic told me that I am HIV and TBC positive. That's why I got this job: I passed all the tests

."

 

[ESay]

What does Putin do now?

He can’t trust Wagner and his own troops are too incompetent to carry on the fight

Yes and no. The Prigozhin's march showed how fragile Putin's vertical of power really is. But still, I wouldn't say that he can't trust his troops. His troops are busy in Ukraine now. And they didn't show any signs of rebellion.

 

[Litwin]

What is going on there?

Luka is making his state ready for coming collapse of Moscow empire, he believes that Nukes can protect him. His main problem that Belarusian are not like Mongol - Muscovites , THEY WANT DEMOCRACY THEY WANT HIM TO STEP DOWN ...

PS I dont think that Luka allows FSB to kill Prigozhin in Belarus .

 

[luiza]

I didn't think Biden would last his full term either. . . . I wouldn't place a bet on this.

It very well could be, both Putin and Prigozhin, will have resolved their differences by years end, and any who marched with Prigozhin, will be rotting in a grave.

Lets wait and see if Putin and Priggy have any differences NOW . It could all have been a scripted drama and Priggy is now perfectly placed to handle the thrusts and support action from Belarus as Russia sets about the weakened US and Ukey Nazi third army -- or what remains of it. Remember that of all the places on the planet Priggy could have gone , the best place for Moscow is Belarus to lead or be inolved in the likely huge advance from there. Now there is a coincidence.

 

[JohnDB]

Luka is making his state ready for coming collapse of Moscow empire, he believes that Nukes can protect him. His main problem that Belarusian are not like Mongol - Muscovites , THEY WANT DEMOCRACY THEY WANT HIM TO STEP DOWN ...

PS I dont think that Luka allows FSB to kill Prigozhin in Belarus .

It could be that he wants Prigozhin's abilities in logistics and mitary structures for CC and training knowledge of how to train troops. (CC=command and control)

Prigozhin's mercenaries were much much more successful than Russian troops in a LOT of ways and against equal numbers of an entrenched enemy. Although Prigozhin used cannon fodder to remove/reduce those troops. He still was successful in doing so.
BUT
Prigozhin's mercenaries had no fire control discipline. (Meaning they wasted a LOT of ammunition and constantly wanted more)
Wagner Group also stole munitions from other units regularly....(could be considered treason on many battlefields)

Logistics (what Wagner excells at) has been problematic for Russian military leadership. "Shell famine" is the term...but it can be anything difficult to obtain on the front lines...like first aide supplies, food, water, or even socks.
War is difficult...and an army can be overcome by a thousand paper cuts just as well as a well placed round of artillery fire. Putin's army is having paper cut losses often. Nearly 25-40% have medical issues from covid to trench foot. Nevermind the influenza and cholera outbreaks.

When Ukraine has wounded there's an immediate reaction of getting those soldiers healthy and back in the fight....Russian wounded need good luck in Healthcare when wounded. The French under Napoleon had no problems with recruitment because of their treatment of wounded. (His was the first to offer such)