Prevention is cheaper than cure

[Arianrhod]

But "Waaaaaaaah, Obamacare, waaaah!"

Sucks when reality doesn't fit with what Faux News tells you:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/848259?src=wnl_edit_tpal&uac=127342PX

 

[Moonglow]

Now that was a well thought out statement , very clear...

 

[Arianrhod]

Sorry. Didn't realize that some people here need help clicking on links.

 

[emilynghiem]

But "Waaaaaaaah, Obamacare, waaaah!"

Sucks when reality doesn't fit with what Faux News tells you:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/848259?src=wnl_edit_tpal&uac=127342PX

Hi Arianrhod

If you are going for prevention
why not research, develop and apply spiritual healing to cure a wide range
of physical, mental and even criminal illnesses,
then take all that money saved from getting people off meds and out of prisons
and use THOSE resources to pay for health care, education, housing
though microloan programs where the money paid back is paid forward.

Spiritual healing does more to cut costs of disease
than insurance which doesn't cure anything.

Why isn't spiritual healing a choice for a mandate or exemption
instead of buying insurance as the only choice for cutting costs of health care?

 

[Arianrhod]

^Not sure what you mean by "spiritual healing." Please elaborate.

 

[emilynghiem]

^Not sure what you mean by "spiritual healing." Please elaborate.

Hi Arianrhod
I promote medical research and development of methods
currently applied to healing cancer, schizophrenia, and other medical and mental conditions, that basically involve diagnosing where people have held on to negative conflicts, emotions or memories that are BLOCKING their minds and bodies from healing naturally. When regular medical or mental therapy doesn't work, the healers look deeper into what is blocking the natural process, since the mind and body are geared toward self-healing by design.

The levels that people tend to have the most serious blockages:
* addictions and abuses tied to unresolved issues with "mother or father" conflicts, either family or romantic relations that aren't fully at peace. So this builds up negative fears, anxieties or resentments and the denial and blame gets projected forward onto future situations in a vicious cycle.

when the healers identify the people or memories that the person hasn't forgiven, then by letting these go this can open up the channels to receive more lifegiving positive energy that allows healing on many levels, body mind spirit and relations with others.

Because this has been used to heal Physical conditions of abuse, addiction and disease, that's where spiritual healing therapy can cut the costs of treatment and also the cost of abuse, crime and other social ills related to the cycles of abuse. The whole recovery process follows this same "forgiveness" therapy where problems can be corrected instead

* generational issues and ills
Some illnesses and conditions are inherited from past generations passed down that affect future relations. Some of these are traceable genetically, some psychologicaly, but others are spiritual connections.
Either way, again, the process of healing involves Identifying the root causes of blockages or "negative energy or karma/sin/conditions" projected forward that actually are tied to events in the past that collected negative energy that the healing prayers seek to remove.

By forgiving and praying for healing, these channels can be opened up to let the natural flow through and renew the person's health. There are even cases I would like studied of praying with the mother or grandmother, where the child receives healing as a result; so this seems to indicate a spiritual connection.

* demonic voices, sickness, personalities and obsessions/addictions
The most extreme conditions I would recommend for study are
the deeply sick and dangerous criminal illnesses involving demonic personalities taking over a person's mind and will. Cases of healing severe schizophrenia are covered in Scott Peck's books "Glimpses of the Devil" and "People of the Lie" where he discovered the distinction between the real person and the demonic sickness that could be removed so their natural will and mind could be restored if helped in time.

Dr. Francis MacNutt also mentions healing schizophrenia in his book on "Healing" while his wife, a licensed psychotherapist, has applied these methods to help clients overcome a wide range of conditions from suicidal refusal to cooperate, to unwanted homosexual attractions, by working on deep healing at the root of where the conditions came from.

I listed some of these resources on a webpage to promote medical research studies on http://www.spiritual-healing.us

Dr. MacNutt has a study on RA conducted formally on his team, where the conclusion was that HIS methods and team showed a positive result from spiritual healing on RA patients (but this doesn't mean all groups or methods work the same way and yield the same results). In fact, his books and teachings advise people that the results ARE going to be unique for each case, and can never be dictated. The whole point is to work with nature, science and medicine in harmony, focus on diagnosing the cause of blocking and prayer/forgiveness to remove it,
and then let the healing process work by itself. It is not to dictate or control the healing which is up to nature and not something we control.

So the results can vary from miraculous overnight changes that can only be attributed to the healing prayer, to longterm changes that may be harder to monitor for study, to changing other circumstances around the person instead of what was thought to be the target issue.

In general the healing process is natural, voluntary, safe and effective in whatever form it turns out to manifest. The only dangerous practices are mixing the positive healing prayer with any negative occult or dark energy forces, or the "fraudulent faith" malpractice of DENYING medical help "as a test of faith" instead of using all available resources together.
Neither of those is part of the natural type of spiritual healing, but people have gotten confused with the other approaches that become harmful.

I want to make sure that when I talk about spiritual healing, it is clear I mean the natural process that works WITH science and medicine,
doesn't reject either one, and does not make a condition of religion.

The truly effective methods help people let go, not project further.

I believe the natural types of spiritual healing can reduce
the causes of abuse addictions and crime, so that the prison
and mental health systems can focus on corrections and cure,
and more resources are freed up to cover the greater populations.

 

[Arianrhod]

Um, okay.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Wow.....

Who knew prevention was cheaper than a cure ?

 

[Arianrhod]

Wow.....

Who knew prevention was cheaper than a cure ?

Not too many people in this forum, apparently. Got a story you'd like to share?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Wow.....

Who knew prevention was cheaper than a cure ?

Not too many people in this forum, apparently. Got a story you'd like to share?

You started this thread.

You think people will actually join in ?

Not to bright.....are you ?

 

[westwall]

But "Waaaaaaaah, Obamacare, waaaah!"

Sucks when reality doesn't fit with what Faux News tells you:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/848259?src=wnl_edit_tpal&uac=127342PX

What do you do about people with genetic predispositions? Families with a history of coronary artery disease for example can do everything absolutely correct and still need bypass surgery.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Please link their posts in.

Because you're suddenly being polite to me?

Out another one of your fabrications is being polite ?

You really need to see a doctor.

BTW: No links yet.....not looking good (or should I say you appear to be your normal lying self).

Does that help ?

 

[Correll]

Actually some insurances plans tried that, and found it not to be true.

Trying to prevent everything led to many wasted resources on people who did NOT need them, while not always preventing the problems that ended up costing money.

 

[Arianrhod]

What do you do about people with genetic predispositions? Families with a history of coronary artery disease for example can do everything absolutely correct and still need bypass surgery.

Precisely. Although there are far less invasive procedures available now, assuming the problem is caught early enough. QED.

 

[Arianrhod]

Westwall, I gave your post short shrift before, and I apologize. Here’s what screening for preexisting conditions can do for just one example, i.e., the one you gave of coronary artery disease.

Suppose you go to your doctor and say “My father and my grandfather both died of CAD. I’d like to know my risk factors.”

First your doctor will ask you about your personal history. Do you smoke? Are you overweight? What’s your diet like? How much alcohol do you consume? Are you diabetic as well?

Then he’ll ask you about the people in your family who had CAD and how their behavior and medical history compared to yours. How old were they when they died?

If you’re overweight, a smoker, a heavy drinker, your doctor can refer you to programs that can advise you and help you remedy those situations.

Your doctor will also send you for bloodwork to test your cholesterol and other risk factors. He'll listen to your heart, take you BP, do an EKG, send you for a stress test.

There’s also genetic screening. If you have the genetic markers, you’ll need to be especially careful.

You may need blood thinners and medications to control hypercholesterolemia and BP.

And, yes, in spite of all of this, you may need stents or even angioplasty, but you may be able to postpone those for years or even decades.

Now, if you don’t have insurance, you may put off going to the doctor until it’s too late, and you end up in the ER with a myocardial infarct or worse.

That’s what I was getting at in the OP.

Hope that helps.

 

[westwall]

Westwall, I gave your post short shrift before, and I apologize. Here’s what screening for preexisting conditions can do for just one example, i.e., the one you gave of coronary artery disease.

Suppose you go to your doctor and say “My father and my grandfather both died of CAD. I’d like to know my risk factors.”

First your doctor will ask you about your personal history. Do you smoke? Are you overweight? What’s your diet like? How much alcohol do you consume? Are you diabetic as well?

Then he’ll ask you about the people in your family who had CAD and how their behavior and medical history compared to yours. How old were they when they died?

If you’re overweight, a smoker, a heavy drinker, your doctor can refer you to programs that can advise you and help you remedy those situations.

Your doctor will also send you for bloodwork to test your cholesterol and other risk factors. He'll listen to your heart, take you BP, do an EKG, send you for a stress test.

There’s also genetic screening. If you have the genetic markers, you’ll need to be especially careful.

You may need blood thinners and medications to control hypercholesterolemia and BP.

And, yes, in spite of all of this, you may need stents or even angioplasty, but you may be able to postpone those for years or even decades.

Now, if you don’t have insurance, you may put off going to the doctor until it’s too late, and you end up in the ER with a myocardial infarct or worse.

That’s what I was getting at in the OP.

Hope that helps.

My family all has CAD. I almost died from it. I have never smoked or been obese. In fact I was a competitive fencer for several decades. Cholesterol makes no difference to my family. The fact that I was as athletic as I was is what saved my life. MOST people can't do what I did.

You are long on pablum, but real short on actual knowledge of the issue.

 

[Arianrhod]

My family all has CAD. I almost died from it. I have never smoked or been obese. In fact I was a competitive fencer for several decades. Cholesterol makes no difference to my family. The fact that I was as athletic as I was is what saved my life. MOST people can't do what I did.

Then you are the exception, and I'm sorry for your misfortune. But someday medical science will have the ability not only to screen for the genetic markers, but to alter the genes that cause familial CAD, in which case future generations will be spared similar misfortune.

However, the majority of CAD cases are not only familial, but based on any or all of the factors I mentioned. An obese smoker might change his lifestyle if he was aware of the risk factors and able to improve his quality of life.

I'm sorry that won't help you but, bottom line, prevention - when possible - is preferable to cure.

 

[westwall]

My family all has CAD. I almost died from it. I have never smoked or been obese. In fact I was a competitive fencer for several decades. Cholesterol makes no difference to my family. The fact that I was as athletic as I was is what saved my life. MOST people can't do what I did.

Then you are the exception, and I'm sorry for your misfortune. But someday medical science will have the ability not only to screen for the genetic markers, but to alter the genes that cause familial CAD, in which case future generations will be spared similar misfortune.

However, the majority of CAD cases are not only familial, but based on any or all of the factors I mentioned. An obese smoker might change his lifestyle if he was aware of the risk factors and able to improve his quality of life.

I'm sorry that won't help you but, bottom line, prevention - when possible - is preferable to cure.

No, that is the MAJORITY of CAD sufferers. Most of us don't live beyond 50 and there is no amount of prevention that will help you. Like I said, the only reason why I am still here is the competitive fencing. I was EXTREMELY active 5 days out of 7. I started in college and never quit. I didn't begin to suffer the effects till I was 63, but like I said, I was as active as a human can possibly be.

 

[Arianrhod]

My family all has CAD. I almost died from it. I have never smoked or been obese. In fact I was a competitive fencer for several decades. Cholesterol makes no difference to my family. The fact that I was as athletic as I was is what saved my life. MOST people can't do what I did.

Then you are the exception, and I'm sorry for your misfortune. But someday medical science will have the ability not only to screen for the genetic markers, but to alter the genes that cause familial CAD, in which case future generations will be spared similar misfortune.

However, the majority of CAD cases are not only familial, but based on any or all of the factors I mentioned. An obese smoker might change his lifestyle if he was aware of the risk factors and able to improve his quality of life.

I'm sorry that won't help you but, bottom line, prevention - when possible - is preferable to cure.

No, that is the MAJORITY of CAD sufferers. Most of us don't live beyond 50 and there is no amount of prevention that will help you. Like I said, the only reason why I am still here is the competitive fencing. I was EXTREMELY active 5 days out of 7. I started in college and never quit. I didn't begin to suffer the effects till I was 63, but like I said, I was as active as a human can possibly be.

I appreciate your sharing so much personal information, and I'll understand if you don't want to share more, but may I ask which subgroup you fall into?

Also, the OP was not specific to any one disease, but to those diseases that can be screened for early on, mainly lifestyle diseases.

I doubt you'd argue that screening for cancers or hypercholesterolemia or diabetes and early diagnosis would be a bad thing.

 

[westwall]

My family all has CAD. I almost died from it. I have never smoked or been obese. In fact I was a competitive fencer for several decades. Cholesterol makes no difference to my family. The fact that I was as athletic as I was is what saved my life. MOST people can't do what I did.

Then you are the exception, and I'm sorry for your misfortune. But someday medical science will have the ability not only to screen for the genetic markers, but to alter the genes that cause familial CAD, in which case future generations will be spared similar misfortune.

However, the majority of CAD cases are not only familial, but based on any or all of the factors I mentioned. An obese smoker might change his lifestyle if he was aware of the risk factors and able to improve his quality of life.

I'm sorry that won't help you but, bottom line, prevention - when possible - is preferable to cure.

No, that is the MAJORITY of CAD sufferers. Most of us don't live beyond 50 and there is no amount of prevention that will help you. Like I said, the only reason why I am still here is the competitive fencing. I was EXTREMELY active 5 days out of 7. I started in college and never quit. I didn't begin to suffer the effects till I was 63, but like I said, I was as active as a human can possibly be.

I appreciate your sharing so much personal information, and I'll understand if you don't want to share more, but may I ask which subgroup you fall into?

Also, the OP was not specific to any one disease, but to those diseases that can be screened for early on, mainly lifestyle diseases.

I doubt you'd argue that screening for cancers or hypercholesterolemia or diabetes and early diagnosis would be a bad thing.

I am fully in favor of wellness programs. I am also in favor of significant medical insurance reform. Sadly Obamacare ain't it. Obamacare is slowly going to put my local pharmacy out of business, as it will drive all other small mom and pop businesses out of business.

Type II diabetes is a lifestyle disease. Some forms of lung cancer are lifestyle diseases. Most forms of COPD are lifestyle diseases. However, your belief that through a government controlled medical system coupled with governmental tyrannical control of people, to somehow control those diseases, is simply ludicrous.

The NHS in the UK has tried to do that and the result is more people are dying from medical "care" than ever before.