President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum

[Correll]

he just fullfilled another campaign promise!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611

And the market took a dump because of it.

Other ways to help the steel industry.

Like what?

 

[CowboyTed]

I'm not an economist, but I'll give you the small businessman's perspective. I have a trucking company. I can easily compete with other trucking companies that have equivalent costs to my own...that is all American companies AND all Canadian companies. But, you throw Mexican companies into the mix, now I am at a significant disadvantage...as a Mexican driver can work for about half of what an American or Canadian can live on, because the cost of living is lower in Mexico than the US and Canada.

In a business where a 5 cent per mile (cpm) discount makes a huge impact on freight contracts, and a Mexican company is getting a 15 cpm reduced labor rate, the Mexican company is actual making more profit than I am, even though they are charging less, and getting more contracts. You can see the eventual endgame...I either close my doors, or move my headquarters to Mexico and hire all Mexican drivers in order to compete.

And that is why we don't have a free market trucking industry and why Mexico was held to a 100 mile from Mexican border zone for 10 years after NAFTA was signed. Today, Mexican trucks and Canadian trucks can haul freight out of their respective countries into the U.S. and U.S. freight back to their respective countries.

This is why I understand the need for Tariffs. What we need is fair trade...and that means fair to the American worker, not just businesses. Democrat claim to be in favor of that...but for partisan reason, block attempts to level the playing field.

As long as American companies are forced to compete against a colossal wage disparity, high taxes, worker safety regulations, a litigious society and government bureaucracy, there is no way to compete against foreign companies other that for our own companies to move overseas.

We would be beyond foolish to retreat on worker safety, litigation is not going to be reduced in any meaningful way, government bureaucracy isn't going away...and unless Americans want to live in shanty towns and eat rice and beans, we can't reduce our cost of living.

So what, if not tariffs...fair tariffs that mitigate the higher costs American companies face...is the solution?

Serious responses only please...partisan hackery will be dismissed out of hand.

Tarriffs don't work... It just raises prices on US consumers, Republicans knew this years before Democrats and Democrats conceded that years ago.

What does work is deals like TPP, TPP was to address all countries working condition including pay. This is similar to the way the EU worked a few decades ago... It makes the cheaper countries pay higher wages and respect environmental laws, health and safety,.... This evens the playing filed but also creates a market in there country too... Over a generation US companies would be selling to Vietnam...

Look at NAFTA, Canada is US second highest exporter and Mexico third... If US helped stabilise Mexico (i.e. stop buying drugs and selling them black market guns, illegal but still happening) they would be easily your biggest trading partner...

It was Republicans who first said trade is good for both sides, they were right then and it is right now...

 

[Correll]

I'm not an economist, but I'll give you the small businessman's perspective. I have a trucking company. I can easily compete with other trucking companies that have equivalent costs to my own...that is all American companies AND all Canadian companies. But, you throw Mexican companies into the mix, now I am at a significant disadvantage...as a Mexican driver can work for about half of what an American or Canadian can live on, because the cost of living is lower in Mexico than the US and Canada.

In a business where a 5 cent per mile (cpm) discount makes a huge impact on freight contracts, and a Mexican company is getting a 15 cpm reduced labor rate, the Mexican company is actual making more profit than I am, even though they are charging less, and getting more contracts. You can see the eventual endgame...I either close my doors, or move my headquarters to Mexico and hire all Mexican drivers in order to compete.

And that is why we don't have a free market trucking industry and why Mexico was held to a 100 mile from Mexican border zone for 10 years after NAFTA was signed. Today, Mexican trucks and Canadian trucks can haul freight out of their respective countries into the U.S. and U.S. freight back to their respective countries.

This is why I understand the need for Tariffs. What we need is fair trade...and that means fair to the American worker, not just businesses. Democrat claim to be in favor of that...but for partisan reason, block attempts to level the playing field.

As long as American companies are forced to compete against a colossal wage disparity, high taxes, worker safety regulations, a litigious society and government bureaucracy, there is no way to compete against foreign companies other that for our own companies to move overseas.

We would be beyond foolish to retreat on worker safety, litigation is not going to be reduced in any meaningful way, government bureaucracy isn't going away...and unless Americans want to live in shanty towns and eat rice and beans, we can't reduce our cost of living.

So what, if not tariffs...fair tariffs that mitigate the higher costs American companies face...is the solution?

Serious responses only please...partisan hackery will be dismissed out of hand.

This is very good, but ignores that fact that European nations are also kicking our ass. And the Japanese. ANd the South Koreans.


EVERYONE is fucking US.


Because the goal of their Trade POlicies are their national interest where ours are driven equal parts by Free Trader Ideologues and Globalist Ideologues, neither of which give a damn about American workers,

 

[Weatherman2020]

he just fullfilled another campaign promise!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611

And the market took a dump because of it.

Other ways to help the steel industry.

Like what?

Regulation reductions, tax breaks.

What Trump just said is growth in the construction industry and goods made here just took a big cost hit. The goal should be to lower our costs.

 

[undertherqadar]

Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.

Get back with us at the end of the year and again tell us how these tariffs are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Killing American jobs is why you bunch of dummies lost the election.

So dorks, china and europe say they will now cut buying ag products from the US, how will that workout for the flyover crowd

 

[Vandalshandle]

What is it about "full employment" that Trumpettes do not understand. We currently have full employment, and companies are having a hard time finding decent workers. That's what all that bonus crap was about after the tax cut. So, virtually everyone who wants a job has one, and Trump wants to tax Americans by raising consumer prices to create more jobs for people who either already have a job, or don't want a job.

Jesus on a bicycle, are Trumpettes that dumb?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

he just fullfilled another campaign promise!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611

Yeah, and the stock market is tanking.

The last thing Wall Street wants to hear is “tariff”.

And it was up for the day prior to the announcement from Trump


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

"Control the border" is another thing they don't like to hear. On the other hand, workers do like to hear it.

When they lose their jobs due to the isolationist policies of the president, they will care more about that than the border.


Tariffs cost jobs, always have and always will.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Low wage labor from across the border costs far more jobs. An American is 100 times more likely to lose his job because of an illegal alien then because of a 10% tariff on steal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of tariffs, but I have mixed emotions when it comes to China. They engage in all kinds of practices that make me question whether 100% pure free trade is always a good thing.

You think that steel workers and auto plant workers and all the other manufacturing jobs are going to illegal aliens?

 

[Correll]

I live in the Rust Belt. We have not bought up the rest of the world.


THey have fucked US.

This is just a tax increase bud whether you live in the rust belt or east coast.

'The president is proposing a massive tax increase': Conservatives tee off on Trump for tariff move

The Free Traders conservative have been proven wrong by the history of the last 30 years.

You know I am 70 years old and I do not live in the past, I live for the future and right now the future does not look to bright if I am to higher prices for just about everything. To many of you oldster's like trump live in the 50's and 60's except for the tweeting. It's 2018 things have changed.

If you are that old, then you remember.

Was this the way Free Trade was supposed to work, ie we would always lose, and the working poor and middle class would never again advance economically?

Correll, your job at Fruit of the Loom underwear is not coming back, no matter what Trump does.

Your use of the Logical Fallacy of Proof by Ridicule is noted and accepted as an tacit admission that you cannot refute what I said.

THe answer is no, this was not the way the Free Trade Policy was supposed to work.


It has failed. The reasons are debatable. The failure is not.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.

Get back with us at the end of the year and again tell us how these tariffs are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Killing American jobs is why you bunch of dummies lost the election.

So dorks, china and europe say they will now cut buying ag products from the US, how will that workout for the flyover crowd

Mexico has already cut purchases of wheat from the US, because of the NAFTA threats, and are starting to buy it from Brazil.

 

[Correll]

What is it about "full employment" that Trumpettes do not understand. We currently have full employment, and companies are having a hard time finding decent workers. That's what all that bonus crap was about after the tax cut. So, virtually everyone who wants a job has one, and Trump wants to tax Americans by raising consumer prices to create more jobs for people who either already have a job, or don't want a job.

Jesus on a bicycle, are Trumpettes that dumb?

The part that an economy that produces all the burger flipping jobs you can want, is not a win.

 

[Weatherman2020]

What is it about "full employment" that Trumpettes do not understand. We currently have full employment, and companies are having a hard time finding decent workers. That's what all that bonus crap was about after the tax cut. So, virtually everyone who wants a job has one, and Trump wants to tax Americans by raising consumer prices to create more jobs for people who either already have a job, or don't want a job.

Jesus on a bicycle, are Trumpettes that dumb?

Same when Obama crushed the economy with his regulations. Only then it was the unemployed faced with higher costs.

 

[Vandalshandle]

This is just a tax increase bud whether you live in the rust belt or east coast.

'The president is proposing a massive tax increase': Conservatives tee off on Trump for tariff move

The Free Traders conservative have been proven wrong by the history of the last 30 years.

You know I am 70 years old and I do not live in the past, I live for the future and right now the future does not look to bright if I am to higher prices for just about everything. To many of you oldster's like trump live in the 50's and 60's except for the tweeting. It's 2018 things have changed.

If you are that old, then you remember.

Was this the way Free Trade was supposed to work, ie we would always lose, and the working poor and middle class would never again advance economically?

Correll, your job at Fruit of the Loom underwear is not coming back, no matter what Trump does.

Your use of the Logical Fallacy of Proof by Ridicule is noted and accepted as an tacit admission that you cannot refute what I said.

THe answer is no, this was not the way the Free Trade Policy was supposed to work.


It has failed. The reasons are debatable. The failure is not.

It is NOT ridicule. The world economy dictates that each country produce what they can produce most efficiently. It is the natural law. They make underwear in the Philippines. We make computer chips.

 

[Vandalshandle]

What is it about "full employment" that Trumpettes do not understand. We currently have full employment, and companies are having a hard time finding decent workers. That's what all that bonus crap was about after the tax cut. So, virtually everyone who wants a job has one, and Trump wants to tax Americans by raising consumer prices to create more jobs for people who either already have a job, or don't want a job.

Jesus on a bicycle, are Trumpettes that dumb?

The part that an economy that produces all the burger flipping jobs you can want, is not a win.

My town is FULL of burger joints begging for people to work for them. All they can get are untrained late teenagers. There are no more underemployed people flipping burgers. McDonald is starting to automate everything including the order process. I was at one this morning, and ordered by computer.

 

[Correll]

Should we allow other countries like communist China to dump steel in the U.S. killing jobs for American workers? That's what liberals in this thread are saying. If China dumping steel into the U.S. was hurting illegals the liberals would be in an uproar.

There is no evidence of that. Actually you are taking the liberal position. You are saying what liberals are saying.

Why is the US constantly having massive trade deficits, with nearly all of our partners?

Because we’re crazy rich and we want the rest of the world’s stuff

That's not why the EU subsidized Airbus, to the loss of thousands of very high tech, high paying jobs.


They couldn't compete, so they cheated and benefited their workers and their economies at the expense of ours.


I want those jobs back for America and Americans.


This was not the way Free Trade was supposed to work.

If I remember correctly Ryanair (one of Europe's largest airlines) ordered 100s of Boeings over the years which is US government backed

Ryanair orders 100 Boeing 737s
"For Boeing, in financial difficulties for the last quarter, 85% of the deal will be guaranteed by the US government."

These types of deals have continued for years... Ryanair runs an almost all new fleet.

Now here is the problem...

View attachment 179771

That is Germany and it is high end steel US imports which it has trouble producing themselves.... Look where china is...

The Limits of 'Made in America' Economics

"The E.U. has sworn to fight back if the Trump White House goes ahead and is reportedly already preparing measures, such as levies on American whiskey, rum, orange juice, potatoes, and tomatoes."

This was just stupid...

That one deal does not change the fact of Airbus supports, nor the mindset that it reveals in their governments.


They are out to fuck US, and they have been doing so.


If their response to US refuses to be their bitch is to blow up world trade,

so much for them being the mature ones.


And what is the problem? I thought Trade Deficits didn't matter?


So what are they pissed off about?


Seems they think that trade surplus matter to them.

 

[Correll]

The Free Traders conservative have been proven wrong by the history of the last 30 years.

You know I am 70 years old and I do not live in the past, I live for the future and right now the future does not look to bright if I am to higher prices for just about everything. To many of you oldster's like trump live in the 50's and 60's except for the tweeting. It's 2018 things have changed.

If you are that old, then you remember.

Was this the way Free Trade was supposed to work, ie we would always lose, and the working poor and middle class would never again advance economically?

Correll, your job at Fruit of the Loom underwear is not coming back, no matter what Trump does.

Your use of the Logical Fallacy of Proof by Ridicule is noted and accepted as an tacit admission that you cannot refute what I said.

THe answer is no, this was not the way the Free Trade Policy was supposed to work.


It has failed. The reasons are debatable. The failure is not.

It is NOT ridicule. The world economy dictates that each country produce what they can produce most efficiently. It is the natural law. They make underwear in the Philippines. We make computer chips.

The WTO Airbus rulings show that is not the case.


The mindset of the EU government was to use government supports to benefit their companies and their workers, and to do so by fucking American companies and workers.


That was not about some Invisible Hand, but them fixing the game.


And I doubt that it was an aberration.

 

[Vandalshandle]

There is no evidence of that. Actually you are taking the liberal position. You are saying what liberals are saying.

Why is the US constantly having massive trade deficits, with nearly all of our partners?

Because we’re crazy rich and we want the rest of the world’s stuff

That's not why the EU subsidized Airbus, to the loss of thousands of very high tech, high paying jobs.


They couldn't compete, so they cheated and benefited their workers and their economies at the expense of ours.


I want those jobs back for America and Americans.


This was not the way Free Trade was supposed to work.

If I remember correctly Ryanair (one of Europe's largest airlines) ordered 100s of Boeings over the years which is US government backed

Ryanair orders 100 Boeing 737s
"For Boeing, in financial difficulties for the last quarter, 85% of the deal will be guaranteed by the US government."

These types of deals have continued for years... Ryanair runs an almost all new fleet.

Now here is the problem...

View attachment 179771

That is Germany and it is high end steel US imports which it has trouble producing themselves.... Look where china is...

The Limits of 'Made in America' Economics

"The E.U. has sworn to fight back if the Trump White House goes ahead and is reportedly already preparing measures, such as levies on American whiskey, rum, orange juice, potatoes, and tomatoes."

This was just stupid...

That one deal does not change the fact of Airbus supports, nor the mindset that it reveals in their governments.


They are out to fuck US, and they have been doing so.


If their response to US refuses to be their bitch is to blow up world trade,

so much for them being the mature ones.


And what is the problem? I thought Trade Deficits didn't matter?


So what are they pissed off about?


Seems they think that trade surplus matter to them.

Your argument is equivalent to a man holding a gun to his head, and shouting, "Stop, or I will shoot!"

 

[mikegriffith1]

And, gee, I thought Trump was in Putin's hip pocket? Russia stands to lose a bunch of money because of Trump's steel tariff.

 

[Correll]

What is it about "full employment" that Trumpettes do not understand. We currently have full employment, and companies are having a hard time finding decent workers. That's what all that bonus crap was about after the tax cut. So, virtually everyone who wants a job has one, and Trump wants to tax Americans by raising consumer prices to create more jobs for people who either already have a job, or don't want a job.

Jesus on a bicycle, are Trumpettes that dumb?

The part that an economy that produces all the burger flipping jobs you can want, is not a win.

My town is FULL of burger joints begging for people to work for them. All they can get are untrained late teenagers. There are no more underemployed people flipping burgers. McDonald is starting to automate everything including the order process. I was at one this morning, and ordered by computer.

That's a good sign.


But the Middle Class has years of stagnation to make up for.


I want to see decades of rapidly rising wages to make up for the decades of shit.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I can only take so much of teaching 9th grade economics before I get burned out, I am now burned out............

 

[Correll]

Why is the US constantly having massive trade deficits, with nearly all of our partners?

Because we’re crazy rich and we want the rest of the world’s stuff

That's not why the EU subsidized Airbus, to the loss of thousands of very high tech, high paying jobs.


They couldn't compete, so they cheated and benefited their workers and their economies at the expense of ours.


I want those jobs back for America and Americans.


This was not the way Free Trade was supposed to work.

If I remember correctly Ryanair (one of Europe's largest airlines) ordered 100s of Boeings over the years which is US government backed

Ryanair orders 100 Boeing 737s
"For Boeing, in financial difficulties for the last quarter, 85% of the deal will be guaranteed by the US government."

These types of deals have continued for years... Ryanair runs an almost all new fleet.

Now here is the problem...

View attachment 179771

That is Germany and it is high end steel US imports which it has trouble producing themselves.... Look where china is...

The Limits of 'Made in America' Economics

"The E.U. has sworn to fight back if the Trump White House goes ahead and is reportedly already preparing measures, such as levies on American whiskey, rum, orange juice, potatoes, and tomatoes."

This was just stupid...

That one deal does not change the fact of Airbus supports, nor the mindset that it reveals in their governments.


They are out to fuck US, and they have been doing so.


If their response to US refuses to be their bitch is to blow up world trade,

so much for them being the mature ones.


And what is the problem? I thought Trade Deficits didn't matter?


So what are they pissed off about?


Seems they think that trade surplus matter to them.

Your argument is equivalent to a man holding a gun to his head, and shouting, "Stop, or I will shoot!"

You didn't answer the question.


If Trade Deficits don't matter, than why are our trading partners threatening retaliation?


Seems they really want those trade surpluses they have had with US for so long.


Seems they think trade balance matters.