Poll: Most Americans Oppose Gay Marriage

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by acludem
So which version of the bible is the correct one? Could it be that the references to homosexual acts were added later, just like the references to witches?

acludem

The earilest versions of the Bible that we have still have the references to homosexuality. Sorry, but your 'it was added later' argument is unsubstantiated.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by NewGuy
If we want to get into this discussion, it would be suited for another thread. In summary, the Bible IS the word of god. There IS NO discrepencies. There ARE different versions which have been subverted through King James, as mentioned, the catholic church, Wescott and Hort, and others.

I am perfectly willing to illustrate all of this and in addition show how the original Greek and Hebrew texts DO line up PERFECTLY with only one version whose literary and poetic language can match these two like no other version before or after. [/B]

I'm assuming you are referring to the 400-year old KJV, which most people today can hardly understand. BUt, if you want to start a separate thread on it, we can certainly discuss it.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Whose job is it to enforce gods will or laws?

 

[Reilly]

John Ashcroft, I think?

 

[acludem]

Oh, Jimmy, Jimmy are you really that naive? You don't think there are any men who are gay that have married women for the health benefits and tax breaks? Just because a man is married to a woman doesn't mean he still isn't having affairs with other men. There is a very, very good reason I'm not married, it's because I don't want to be. I can't afford a woman right now

And just so you know, I was on the debate team all three years in high school. You might be interested to know that most of my teammates were conservatives, many are still friends, and we always debated with respect for one another, whether in a tournament or on the bus to the tournament.

acludem

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
Whose job is it to enforce gods will or laws?

If speaking in terms of groups, God's. In terms of individuals, we are responsible for ourselves. It is the old plank-in-the-eye thing.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by NewGuy
If speaking in terms of groups, God's. In terms of individuals, we are responsible for ourselves. It is the old plank-in-the-eye thing.

thats what I was looking for.

 

[Hobbit]

Originally posted by NewGuy
If speaking in terms of groups, God's. In terms of individuals, we are responsible for ourselves. It is the old plank-in-the-eye thing.

Well, it's kind of an "it's everybody but it's nobody" thing. We're all supposed to uphold God's laws, but we are not supposed to judge. It's important to point out when you think a friend is doing wrong, but remember that you have done wrong as well. The plank-in-the-eye is a hypocrisy thing. I see enforcing as a whole more like removing a splinter from my friend's eye while he pulls the nail out of my foot. He has problems I don't and I have problems he doesn't, so we help each other out with our problems, since, just like said injuries, are hard to handle by yourself.

 

[DKSuddeth]

I have to disagree a bit.

gods laws are not meant to be enforced, they are meant to be lived. Christ lived his life by gods will, he taught that through the love that he showed to all. He didn't say 'if you don't follow these rules, then I'll punish you'.

teaching by example is how christ lived his life, is that not right?

 

[Hobbit]

Right, but enforcement is sometimes necessary, but the system should be designed around stopping the harmful behavior, not just meting out pain and misery on those who disobey.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by Hobbit
Right, but enforcement is sometimes necessary, but the system should be designed around stopping the harmful behavior, not just meting out pain and misery on those who disobey.

when is enforcement necessary? when it affects others physically? when it affects yourself? I would think that enforcement should only apply if the resulting actions would cause physical or emotional harm (real harm, not imagined) to other individuals.

 

[Hobbit]

Keep in mind that this is within the context of Christian faith. In that case, all deviant behavior is harmful to either yourself or others or both. All such behavior should be corrected, but not necessarily through punishment. It should start with confrontation (as long as we're talking adults, here), then move to punishment if necessary. I rarely see a case among Christians where someone kept repeating deviant behavior after being confronted by multiple people on the same issue.

 

[DKSuddeth]

so explain to me how 2 guys, or girls, who choose to have sexual relations in the privacy of their own home harms anyone else?

 

[Hobbit]

Once again, this is within the context of the Christian faith, and according to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin, and sin harms the soul. Just because we can't see the harm it causes doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by Hobbit
Once again, this is within the context of the Christian faith, and according to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin, and sin harms the soul. Just because we can't see the harm it causes doesn't mean it's not there.

ok, so if this is only 'within the context of the christian faith', why does it become the purview of the government?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by acludem
And just so you know, I was on the debate team all three years in high school. You might be interested to know that most of my teammates were conservatives, many are still friends, and we always debated with respect for one another, whether in a tournament or on the bus to the tournament.

What a heartfelt story. Did you pop one another in the bunghole too?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Hobbit
Keep in mind that this is within the context of Christian faith. In that case, all deviant behavior is harmful to either yourself or others or both. All such behavior should be corrected, but not necessarily through punishment. It should start with confrontation (as long as we're talking adults, here), then move to punishment if necessary. I rarely see a case among Christians where someone kept repeating deviant behavior after being confronted by multiple people on the same issue.

Hobbit, I hate to disagree on a minor point, but I think in context, it is necessary.

I have never seen any Biblical passage indicating CORRECTION of someone TOWARD Biblical teachings unless the person claimed to be Christian, or was offspring. Non-believers are to be taught, called out for sins, and told God's word while being asked to repent. -AT MOST.

That is the ONLY stuff I could ever find on this topic. I have tried to prove what you have said for YEARS, and never could. The end conclusion is that in each case God allows us to sin and reject Him. If He didn't, we would not have had the whole falling away in the first place. In addition, it is necessary for the end times, and for the gift of salvation to have any value. Remember that a city burned not because people were corrected from sinning, but TO correct people from sinning. -By death. "The wages of sin is death."

God has to do this, all we can do is live by example, not promote sin, and call it out when we find it.

 

[Hobbit]

This is basically what I meant. You try to reach the 'lost,' and use the 'corrective' behavior on those who are already Christian.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by Hobbit
This is basically what I meant. You try to reach the 'lost,' and use the 'corrective' behavior on those who are already Christian.

ok, I may understand that. If a non-christian chooses to do something 'not in gods will', whats the course of action?

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Hobbit
Well, the little bit of God's will that is known comes from the Bible, which is clearly against homosexuality. Sodom and Gommorah come to mind, as well as such verses as, "...but the liars, idolaters, homosexuals, (long list of sinful people) all have their place in the lake of fire."

Oh please...Not that again. The Bible is entirely the product of human effort. The deity depicted within its pages is far too petty and vindictive to be anything but human fabrication.