Poll: More blame Obama for poor economy, unemployment

[Meister]

Stimulus funds help keep unemployment benefits flowing | Salisbury, NC - Salisbury Post

Wow! I thought the stimulus was going to create shovel ready jobs....so the unemployment would drop. Silly me for thinking.

simplistic thinking will not win your party any seats

Common sense goes a long ways, that is a trait that you lack, young lady.
The stimulus bill was sold with the shovel ready jobs mantra....


PS....I won't be running for any office....so don't worry about simplistic thinking, OK?

 

[Jarhead]

What action did Bush do in early 2008?

Tax rebates.

and you did not even mention the bailouts of late 2008?

This was very near the only thing Bush did that helped this mess. Unfortunately they did them in such a manner as to limmit the recourse for the American people to being paid back and even gain from the mess. We could have made some damn money from these bastards and punished them all at once.

I did not agree with the bailouts and I see the bailouts as stunting the economy.

A bank fails, so be it. There are other banks that would pick up the slack.

That is how capitalism works. You take a chance and screw up, you lose. And others captialize on it.

Hey; you see it one way, I see it another.

Either way I credit you and I for helping those in need in the meantime. I give no credit to governement whatsoever. They use OUR money to help out those that need it. And if they didnt? I would personally give that money to those that needed it.

And my guess is, so would you.

 

[Jarhead]

How can you take a job that doesnt exsist?

Who takes the job that does not pay enough to cover childcare?


These people SPEND this money which keeps the economy from sinking further.


The "MAGIC" market some people talk about is not so magic for the people living in it.
Yes the market will eventually take care of itsself but many people starve to death while it takes care of ITSSELF!

Yes, I know.

But few if any starve to death.

Americans do what they gotta do.

I hear stories of homeless that freeze to death. Never do I hear anything about those that starve to death.

I believe (and I say believe) that is just a talking point.

Americans do what they gotta do. We always have and we always will. Unless, of course, we find an easier way. Like a sugar daddy?

Show me one historical example where what you claimed would work worked?

Truthmatters, I may be new to this board, but I see how it works here.

I present examples, you do your best to tell me how I am looking at them with partisan eyes.

I call you partisan in return and tell you you are a sheeep.

You then call me a liar and a right wing hack, I call you a loser and a left wing kook.

We are both better than that and I will not fall into it; and I will not drag you into it.

I am glad we see things differently. At least America is not turning into The Borg.

 

[hyakku]

Seriously, kid. SaveLiberty is right.... it's time to grow up. There ain't nothing new under the sun and your generation is not somehow more special than any other that's gone before you. All this philosophy has been hashed and rehashed. Today's Progressivism, for example isn't much more that warmed-over, Mussolini-styled fascism, which was quite lauded in its day. And wow, did you ever let loose your inner fascist in telling us what YOU are willing to "allow".

*yawn* Yes, yes, the first thing to do is to summarily surmise your opponents entire political ideology based on his accurate recollection of the goals of the american fore fathers and the constitution.

My generation isn't special. There are no "special" people, stop trying to frame me as some weird idealist, when in reality you stick to senseless ideals and must resort to categorizing philosophies because you lack the propensity to hybridize and incorporate various aspects of multifaceted ideologies. However, EACH generation of people exists within unique moments in which ideologies and institutions should be established, abolished or strengthened. Stagnation is stupidity.

The generation who fought in WWII were responsible for establishing the successful nuclear order we have today.

The generation who were reaching maturity during the 60's caused massive social and economic revolutions globally, either through liberalization of their own states globally, or here in America, where we spawned social changes that swept and enveloped the globe that last to this day.

The generation of the 90's brought the advent of true globalization and the reallocation of goods and services throughout the globe.

All of these leaps required unique innovations in thinking, institutions and rules. Some of them were reformations or variations of previous ideologies, some were radically different institutions like NATO, and the WTO. Despite all this, the most lasting and important institutions, those backed by the West, particularly America, were created BECAUSE voters elected political leaders who represented these interests.

That is to say, each of these things, the nuclear order, Western liberalization of the "rest", networked globalization et. al, are products of government BY and FOR the people.

If progressives were really about sovereign citizenship... they'd be federalists. (We call those 'anarchic blocs of self-governance' States, btw. )

Yea, that's what we call states in international relations. The "states" within America, aren't anarchic guy, they're subject to federal regulations and rules because while state's have their own rights, ultimately as a representative democracy the will of the people trumps the will of any other interests. Fortunately, we don't live in a pure democracy, and this states can have some amount of autonomy so that we DON'T have to have a majority rules decision for everything, but only for those issues which will affect us all.

The founders knew the dangers of an overly strong central government. And they knew that Democracy was no counter to it. Pure democracy always fails. It's "two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch". Democracy can only work when utilized within the confines of agreed-upon and established law. And not just any law. Not arbitrary law.

Are you serious? Is that not what i've been saying this ENTIRE thread? But the rules should not be ideologically based, they should be pragmatic and require as much or as little government intervention as possible. I don't care whether the government is as small as a pea or as big as a fuckin mountain, as long as it's doing what it's SUPPOSED to (SERVING THE PEOPLE), it doesn't matter.

THAT, is the point. It shouldn't matter because if we were all involved in making informed voting decisions, we would have leaders deliberating strongly in congress (instead of the nonsense I see on television from both parties) and all political decisions would be a reflection of the people's will after vigorous vetting and comprehensive debate.

Unfortunately, I don't make normative assumptions based on my ideals, but would prefer to operate within the parameters of the given context, not the context I would like to be given.

Anyway, before I post a tome... my point is that you kids think you're reinventing the wheel. But all your grand schemes are either tried and failed, or pondered upon and discarded. YOU are not Cicero. You're not Benjamin Franklin. And while your weight in human value might be the same as theirs... the weight of your philosophy is not.

What grand schemes? You don't even know me. You've concocted some enemy that you can deal with in your head because you don't have salient, legitimate points to my rebuttals. I have no wish to be like either of those people, they were both highly biased and convinced in their own thinking. I prefer to be amorphous in my own way of thinking.

And we don't think we're reinventing the wheel, we're just changing it off the rims and making certain we've got good treads to handle the rocky road of the future. It's been done in every prior generation, whether you've been blind to it or not, and will continue to occur as that's what history does, builds upon itself.

There is no reinvention of anything. In short, there is no scratch. It seems people don't realize this anymore, and everyone wants to restart from the beginning, but remember, there is no scratch.

Edit:

I see why you thought I was a political progressive. I meant install progressive in terms of those willing to be pragmatic in their approach to progressing the nation forward, not instilling those who believe the political ideology of Progressivism. My bad about that lack of clarity.

 

[Truthmatters]

Yes, I know.

But few if any starve to death.

Americans do what they gotta do.

I hear stories of homeless that freeze to death. Never do I hear anything about those that starve to death.

I believe (and I say believe) that is just a talking point.

Americans do what they gotta do. We always have and we always will. Unless, of course, we find an easier way. Like a sugar daddy?

Show me one historical example where what you claimed would work worked?

Truthmatters, I may be new to this board, but I see how it works here.

I present examples, you do your best to tell me how I am looking at them with partisan eyes.

I call you partisan in return and tell you you are a sheeep.

You then call me a liar and a right wing hack, I call you a loser and a left wing kook.

We are both better than that and I will not fall into it; and I will not drag you into it.

I am glad we see things differently. At least America is not turning into The Borg.

I did not insult you I aksed you a question.

I asked you where in history your theory of unfettered markets was proven to work.

Why did you answer me this way instead of just answering my question????????

 

[Truthmatters]

Tax rebates.

and you did not even mention the bailouts of late 2008?

This was very near the only thing Bush did that helped this mess. Unfortunately they did them in such a manner as to limmit the recourse for the American people to being paid back and even gain from the mess. We could have made some damn money from these bastards and punished them all at once.

I did not agree with the bailouts and I see the bailouts as stunting the economy.

A bank fails, so be it. There are other banks that would pick up the slack.

That is how capitalism works. You take a chance and screw up, you lose. And others captialize on it.

Hey; you see it one way, I see it another.

Either way I credit you and I for helping those in need in the meantime. I give no credit to governement whatsoever. They use OUR money to help out those that need it. And if they didnt? I would personally give that money to those that needed it.

And my guess is, so would you.

How many banks would have failed?

How long would it have taken for the recovery to materialize?

 

[Dr Gregg]

Yes, I know.

But few if any starve to death.

Americans do what they gotta do.

I hear stories of homeless that freeze to death. Never do I hear anything about those that starve to death.

I believe (and I say believe) that is just a talking point.

Americans do what they gotta do. We always have and we always will. Unless, of course, we find an easier way. Like a sugar daddy?

Show me one historical example where what you claimed would work worked?

Truthmatters, I may be new to this board, but I see how it works here.

I present examples, you do your best to tell me how I am looking at them with partisan eyes.

I call you partisan in return and tell you you are a sheeep.

You then call me a liar and a right wing hack, I call you a loser and a left wing kook.

We are both better than that and I will not fall into it; and I will not drag you into it.

I am glad we see things differently. At least America is not turning into The Borg.

that's about spot on how this place functions most of the time

 

[Jarhead]

Show me one historical example where what you claimed would work worked?

Truthmatters, I may be new to this board, but I see how it works here.

I present examples, you do your best to tell me how I am looking at them with partisan eyes.

I call you partisan in return and tell you you are a sheeep.

You then call me a liar and a right wing hack, I call you a loser and a left wing kook.

We are both better than that and I will not fall into it; and I will not drag you into it.

I am glad we see things differently. At least America is not turning into The Borg.

I did not insult you I aksed you a question.

I asked you where in history your theory of unfettered markets was proven to work.

Why did you answer me this way instead of just answering my question????????

I did not say you insulted me.
Please realize, this is text so you are not hearing the empotion attached to it.
I did not give you examples as I know you will view my exampoles one way and I will another.
That is OK. It is the way we are. Nothing wrong with it.
But I also know that if I present examples, someone, if not you, will start balsting away and I am not into that type of debate.

So I am asking you to respect my theory and move on. I am not trying to prove it. I bleive it based on my observation of the economy over my years. You believe what you beleive.

Economics is all based on theory anyway.

SO we can apply ANY theory to ANY economic activity and credit any thoery with any activity.

The parties do it all the time.

You want me to cite facts on what spurs the economy? I can not. No one can. You want me to state my theory? I did.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

The way this President and the Democrats got their Health Care debacle passed cannot be forgotten or forgiven by most Americans. This is by far the dirtiest U.S. Congress in History. People want to strike back on Election Day. Lets hope they're successful in booting the Democrats. 2010 could be the beginning of the end for this Socialist/Progressive nightmare.

 

[Truthmatters]

Your theory deserves no respect because it is unproven.

Maekets do NOT Take care of the people involved in them they merely go up and down.

They serve no Human but those who have enough money to make money in ANY market and can use them to fleece the rest of the 99%.

Ask anyone who has enough money and they will tell you that if you have enough capital you can make more in ANY market.

Unfettered markets do not help any democracy they subvert democracy.

No wonder you dont want to have that conversation.

 

[Jarhead]

Your theory deserves no respect because it is unproven.

Maekets do NOT Take care of the people involved in them they merely go up and down.

They serve no Human but those who have enough money to make money in ANY market and can use them to fleece the rest of the 99%.

Ask anyone who has enough money and they will tell you that if you have enough capital you can make more in ANY market.

Unfettered markets do not help any democracy they subvert democracy.

No wonder you dont want to have that conversation.

Okie Dokie Truthmatters.

By the way, markets do not have minds of their own.

They do not go up and down becuase they decide they want to.

Take it from there.

 

[Truthmatters]

List of recessions in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why do you not want to showe me how well your assumptions work?

Lets jsut go throught the history of recessions in the US and discuss the impact of regulation on them?

 

[saveliberty]

While this seemingly conventional wisdom sounds plausible, in all actuality, the blame with the current economic system lies not with Obama, or, ironically enough Bush, despite my disdain from him.

This economic crisis was the result of the policies of Reagan and Clinton deregulating key institutions that were designed to ensure these things don't spiral out of control. Their economy was more predictable and stable due to less globalization factors, and there parties were flexible, allowing them to avert this for a good amount of time by having flexible diplomacy.

The faults of Obama and Bush are not that they started this recession, but rather that both parties were unwilling to reinstate some of the key regulation and strengthen some of the existing institutions to shore up the fundamentals of our economic system due to the unpopularity of some of the initial measures required.

But now people realize that complete deregulation of a free market is only possible if you live in a purely capitalist, economically liberal paradigm. That doesn't exist in this world, nor would it ever. I won't possibly discuss why a liberal, capitalist, "pure" democracy couldn't exist in an age where governing is needed to watch so many people, but if you disagree with this then you essentially disagree with reality so I can't really discuss anything with you there.

The conclusion? Like another poster said, it's not to just keep bouncing in between both parties for the lesser evil. It's time for serious overhaul of the parties, an instilling of young, progressive blood for both the conservative and liberal base that really understands key emerging issues, and we need to utilize more of the technological capabilities we have to diffuse information and improve voter education processes so that more people can learn about issues in an unbiased manner and we can get back on track making efficient, beneficial decisions for our nation.

I see you have already sold your soul to the government. You expect government to protect you, offer economic certainty, be progressive in all things and offer unbiased information on which to make educated decisions. Wake the Hell up son!

Just curious to know what is your stand on immigration. From your post I can only assume that you're completely fine with immigrants, even illegal, competing for your job. That's the only thing I wanted to make clear. Thanks.

What part of illegal gives you the most problem? Certainly legal immigrants san compete for my job. I have no problem with that.

 

[CMike]

recession: A period of general economic decline; typically defined as a decline in GDP for two or more consecutive quarters.

And since the GDP has been positive for THREE consecutive quarters, we are out of a recession

Thanks President Obama!

More ECONOMIC GOOD NEWS

I am sure the 9.7% unemployed because of Obama are thrilled

Thanks President Obama!

 

[Truthmatters]

Please note the patterns JH.

There were recessions every couple of years for decades. There were attempts to deal with this that were not veryu successful right up until the new deal and Glass steagal.

After that we had a much more stable economy with shallower recessions that were further apart.

Once we got rid of Glass steagal completetly we had this mess.

WHY would any American choose that ?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Once again, 0bama's opinion of Americans as stupid, short-term memory sheep is really proving to be a GOOD strategy. From what a read in the poll, sticking with the, its Bush's fault still works.

Its amazing how you can accuse Obama of having a short term memory and in the same paragraph ridicule the idea that the bad economy had anything to do with Bush.

 

[Jarhead]

List of recessions in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why do you not want to showe me how well your assumptions work?

Lets jsut go throught the history of recessions in the US and discuss the impact of regulation on them?

I have debated every recession with many in my time and although my opponenets have always said they were the winner of those debates, those that saw it my way, siad they were the loser.

I will not gain from a debate like this with you and you will not gain from it either.

Like you said. You will not respect my theory as it is not proven; or something like that.

That was good enough for me to realize I will get nowhere with this debate with you.

I, However, wholly respect your theory. I do not need to accept it as fact to respect it.

We are in different places Truthmatters. Mine works for me and I trust yours works for you.

Great day here in NY! Anyone else have 70 and sunny?

 

[del]

What will all of you say if the economy recovers?

I bet you will say Obama gets no credit and the economy revived in SPITE of him.

You will deny its really a recovery and someone is tweeking the numbers.

You will find some twisted way to blame Obama and give the credit to the cons.

You always do.

just take everything you ever said about bush and put obama's name in bush's place.

simple, no?
like you

 

[Gunny]

Yes, I know.

But few if any starve to death.

Americans do what they gotta do.

I hear stories of homeless that freeze to death. Never do I hear anything about those that starve to death.

I believe (and I say believe) that is just a talking point.

Americans do what they gotta do. We always have and we always will. Unless, of course, we find an easier way. Like a sugar daddy?

Show me one historical example where what you claimed would work worked?

Truthmatters, I may be new to this board, but I see how it works here.

I present examples, you do your best to tell me how I am looking at them with partisan eyes.

I call you partisan in return and tell you you are a sheeep.

You then call me a liar and a right wing hack, I call you a loser and a left wing kook.

We are both better than that and I will not fall into it; and I will not drag you into it.

I am glad we see things differently. At least America is not turning into The Borg.

No, you DON'T truly see how it is, jarhead. She's a fucking retard. The worst political hack, rhetoric spouting leftwingnut goober on ANY board I have encountered her on. She's worse than Chrissy.

You are wasting the lifespan of your fingers and eyes responding to her idiotic shit.

Nice ID, btw.

 

[Gunny]

List of recessions in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why do you not want to showe me how well your assumptions work?

Lets jsut go throught the history of recessions in the US and discuss the impact of regulation on them?

I have debated every recession with many in my time and although my opponenets have always said they were the winner of those debates, those that saw it my way, siad they were the loser.

I will not gain from a debate like this with you and you will not gain from it either.

Like you said. You will not respect my theory as it is not proven; or something like that.

That was good enough for me to realize I will get nowhere with this debate with you.

I, However, wholly respect your theory. I do not need to accept it as fact to respect it.

We are in different places Truthmatters. Mine works for me and I trust yours works for you.

Great day here in NY! Anyone else have 70 and sunny?

All you gain from debating her is feeling like you need a shower.