Poll: More blame Obama for poor economy, unemployment

[Jarhead]

See, we're making progress with you, relating your argument with the topic at hand. You've still got that bias, but hey, we've got months to work together don't we .

You're correct though, this will have consequences. If he can reverse the tide, I find that looking back at many political leaders, they often experience even MORE popularity if initially detestable policies actual provide tangible benefits, than if they would have had mediocre policies with symbolic accomplishments. If he cannot, surely by 2010 and 2012 there will be new leadership, at whichpoint I can only hope they are some of the sensible Repubcs I see, contributing STRONG points to debates in congress (e.g., cross state insurance policies, increased privatization of energy innovation and in some ways securitization [but not all], increased investments into military technology to spur private innovation, etc. ). All of this traditionally conservative ideas (besides the relatively specific one of cross state insurance) are ones I would support to see in our government, but not if their bogged down by idiotic alarmist ideologues constantly campaigning.

You are still seeing the socialist policies of Obama as proper and positive. Hence, your interest in his "turn around". Do you think your unbiased? I sincerely find you oblivious to how entrenched you are in the nanny state.

We can argue policy all day long.
What we can not argue is human nature.

Dirve is a consequence of need.
You minimnize need, you minimize drive.
The more you minimize need, the more drive dissipates.

We dam well better wake up soon.

 

[hyakku]

See, we're making progress with you, relating your argument with the topic at hand. You've still got that bias, but hey, we've got months to work together don't we .

You're correct though, this will have consequences. If he can reverse the tide, I find that looking back at many political leaders, they often experience even MORE popularity if initially detestable policies actual provide tangible benefits, than if they would have had mediocre policies with symbolic accomplishments. If he cannot, surely by 2010 and 2012 there will be new leadership, at whichpoint I can only hope they are some of the sensible Repubcs I see, contributing STRONG points to debates in congress (e.g., cross state insurance policies, increased privatization of energy innovation and in some ways securitization [but not all], increased investments into military technology to spur private innovation, etc. ). All of this traditionally conservative ideas (besides the relatively specific one of cross state insurance) are ones I would support to see in our government, but not if their bogged down by idiotic alarmist ideologues constantly campaigning.

You are still seeing the socialist policies of Obama as proper and positive. Hence, your interest in his "turn around". Do you think your unbiased? I sincerely find you oblivious to how entrenched you are in the nanny state.

I most certainly am biased, but not to one particular idea. See, in many of your posts i've noticed that you require a very concrete, zero-sum philosophy that you can look up, otherwise you get rather antsy. You've already told me more than once to "make up my mind", or told me what type of ideology I'm currently thinking in these random threads we've been playing tag in. This is your problem, you're stagnant in thinking and not willing to take comprehensive approaches to problems. Your obstinance is also a strength though, you argue your points passionately.

You should learn to bridge this gap, to recognize that you are biased, like anyone else, but to argue your OWN bias, not bias that has been instilled in you from outside sources.

My viewpoints are an amalgamation of a plurality of values. I'm a pluralist in international relations with my approach to foreign policy. A liberal in economics (and I mean an actual liberal, like reformed Smith type of Liberal not whatever we call liberals today), a political realist, and at times I even debase my realist roots by employing some social constructivism (which is generally classified with other revolutionary ideals like Marxism, i suspect you'll latch onto this but it's cool). Now you know the dominant viewpoints that rule my mind, at least now you have a base point to compare what you believe I am and what I may not be.

As for me supporting socialist policies, again, bring some evidence or something before completely just going off topic and accusing me of nonsense.

We can argue policy all day long.
What we can not argue is human nature.

Dirve is a consequence of need.
You minimnize need, you minimize drive.
The more you minimize need, the more drive dissipates.

We dam well better wake up soon.

Indeed. "Empty the minds, and fill the bellies. Cease the people from want and strengthen their bones. Hence in governing, a good leader removes hunger and by doing so keeps the people from action."

I recall Lao Tzu saying something of the sort. This was twisted into some of the most cruel, warrantless violence of the Maoist (I believe, though I may have the wrong dynasty that twisted taoism and legalism, any chinese scholars feel free to correct me) dynasty. This is why a complete dependency on government should terrify the West.

On the contrary, we should be hesitant and apprehensive, but intelligently so. WE certainly shouldn't aim to have every person on earth competing in a zero sum game, but total government and social solidarity is also something I agree we should be wary of.

 

[saveliberty]

hyakku, at times I am not only talking to you but using you as an example for others. While you mull over your eclectic approach to find what works for you, I'm looking at the damage being done by the left and how to restore limited government and fiscal responsibility for the benefit of society as a whole.

I certainly see areas of agreement with you, but to succeed at them requires understanding the pitfalls of mixing a socialist leaning government with a capitalist economy. While you seem ready to conduct some grand experiment, most of us are not ready to risk all for some perceived progress. It is a function of your age and enthusiasm.

I consider my kids educated. The oldest was able to take an African Studies class and articulate her viewpoint much to the dismay of her class Several times the professor had to point out she was the one using reason and fact, encouraging the rest of the class to use her example. In your case, I hear the voices of people you consider learned and a regurgitation of their talking points.

 

[xotoxi]

Last week's jubilant signing of the health care overhaul, Obama's signature domestic initiative, seems to have given the president little boost. Instead, his standing on four personal qualities has sagged, and 50% of those surveyed say he doesn't deserve re-election.

Poll: More blame Obama for poor economy, unemployment - USATODAY.com

Maybe you do another gloating tour Barry, that last one helped you sooooooooo much.

Xeno...do you place a lot of weight on that poll?

How about this?

Even so, the president fares better than other Washington leaders. In the poll, 52% say they have a favorable opinion of Obama.

Hmmm...

 

[hyakku]

hyakku, at times I am not only talking to you but using you as an example for others. While you mull over your eclectic approach to find what works for you, I'm looking at the damage being done by the left and how to restore limited government and fiscal responsibility for the benefit of society as a whole.

I certainly see areas of agreement with you, but to succeed at them requires understanding the pitfalls of mixing a socialist leaning government with a capitalist economy. While you seem ready to conduct some grand experiment, most of us are not ready to risk all for some perceived progress. It is a function of your age and enthusiasm.

It doesn't require experimentation or hesitancy. It requires OPEN, comprehensive deliberation. None of those approaches need to conflict each other. All of them, in fact, complement each other quite well in that they all recognize the importance of liberties and rights of an individual, but also recognize that abiding in an anarchic international system, we've gotta be willing to establish and maintain a legitimate order. If we don't do this, whether we're talking about a domestic political order, an international nuclear order, or whatever you want to refer to, then seemingly tried and true methods won't work either.

You have to come to grips with the fact that we are at a unique moment in history. The mobilization of labor and information at rapid speeds is DRASTICALLY affecting the world, similar to how the onset of modernity, the agricultural or industrial revolution drastically changed their worlds then. Interdependence and globalization ensure that a new approach will be needed, because these are NEW phenomena.

I consider my kids educated. The oldest was able to take an African Studies class and articulate her viewpoint much to the dismay of her class Several times the professor had to point out she was the one using reason and fact, encouraging the rest of the class to use her example. In your case, I hear the voices of people you consider learned and a regurgitation of their talking points.

I don't consider too many people learned. In fact, there are few, if any political philosophers that I can say I readily identify with. Even a rather contemporary writer who I enjoy reading, G John Ikenberry, doesn't accurately reflect all my views.

Unfortunately for you, you are still making over reaching assumptions. These viewpoints i've accumulated over these years have been a result of constant debate and consumption of both classical and contemporary historical accounts. From there, I apply my own paradigms and interpret the situation the way i believe makes the most sense. This is bias, and of course we all have it, but it is my OWN bias, not one accumulated from sitting in classrooms. I can guarantee you this because I'm largely self educated coming from a pathetic high school district, and being only a sophmore in college I don't really think that it's too much bias, especially considering that, once again, I study International Relations, not political science. Therefore I'd have to question who these people that influenced me would be.

I don't care about the ideals of a philosopher if they aren't pragmatic or practical, hence my issue with many liberal, social constructivist, and classical realist viewpoints in my field of study.

It's ironic, because outside of this board, a lot of people brand me as callous and oftentimes as a utilitarian. Here though, I'm apparently espousing liberal propaganda if i'm for a loosely, but efficiently regulated free market, a more Jeffersonian foreign policy approach, and hold the (accurate) belief that energy securitization should be a huge priority for the American government.

I guess everything's really in the eye of the beholder .

 

[maineman]

Of course he gets the blame for economy still being slow, that's the price to pay for presiding over recession period. However when the things turn around he's gonna get the credit too, you watch.

Yes he will. Assuming they turn around soon.

If not, he will get credit for stunting the recovery.

Republicans better pray for things not improving, otherwise the number of heart attacks in November of 2012 would put a huge burden on newly created health program.

WHAT? Repulicans putting party before the good of the country? sounds like business as usual to me. republicans always pray for things to not improve whenever they are out of power.

 

[saveliberty]

Last week's jubilant signing of the health care overhaul, Obama's signature domestic initiative, seems to have given the president little boost. Instead, his standing on four personal qualities has sagged, and 50% of those surveyed say he doesn't deserve re-election.

Poll: More blame Obama for poor economy, unemployment - USATODAY.com

Maybe you do another gloating tour Barry, that last one helped you sooooooooo much.

Xeno...do you place a lot of weight on that poll?

How about this?

Even so, the president fares better than other Washington leaders. In the poll, 52% say they have a favorable opinion of Obama.

Hmmm...

Ad Hominem defense of 0bama. Your guy is less bad. Err.....okay. We'll throw out Pelosi and Reid first, happy?

 

[JUDAH]

Yes it certainly is Obama's fault that the economy is in such bad shape. Of course it is. Let's not even think about the Bush years of tax reductions for rich people, hundreds of billions spent on illegal wars, billions spent on post 9/11 security projects that do not work, building a fence to keep Mexicans out, outsourcing manufacturing to China. No. None of this destroyed the economy. It was Obama, all Obama, 100% Obama.

My God, do these people not have eyes with which to see, minds to think with ?

 

[xotoxi]

Poll: More blame Obama for poor economy, unemployment - USATODAY.com

Maybe you do another gloating tour Barry, that last one helped you sooooooooo much.

Xeno...do you place a lot of weight on that poll?

How about this?

Even so, the president fares better than other Washington leaders. In the poll, 52% say they have a favorable opinion of Obama.

Hmmm...

Ad Hominem defense of 0bama. Your guy is less bad. Err.....okay. We'll throw out Pelosi and Reid first, happy?

Might want to throw out Boehner and McConnell as well.

Even so, the president fares better than other Washington leaders. In the poll, 52% say they have a favorable opinion of Obama. That's much higher than House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (36%), House Republican Leader John Boehner (29%), Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid (29%) and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell (31%).

And my post is not a defense of Obama, but an attempt to make sure that all of the information is presented, especially when that information seems to contradict the OP.

I just want to know how much credence people are placed on these polls.

 

[Samson]

2012 is not the worry, this year is.

If the GoP takes both houses and things improve, Barry won't get the credit, the line will be the GoP rescued the nation from his partisan over spending ways.

The dems are fucked due to their own mismanagemnt and over reach.

IF the GOP takes Both Houses

and IF things improve....

are only the first two "Big Ifs"

The next is:

If the GOP can get its head out of its collective asses and actually accomplish anything, once they have power.

This last seems to have been the most illusive.....

 

[oreo]

Ron Reagan shouldered the blame for the economy when he took office too. Reagans approval numbers were around 38% at this point in his presidency compared to 52% for Obama.

In 1984 Reagan ran on a "Are you better off now than you were four years ago" platform

So will Obama

Reagan didn't spend us into oblivion to create a job. Obama has failed miserably. He may have had a chance if he didn't shove 787 BILLION down our throats, and even a better chance if he didn't sign off on another 450 BILLION for 9000 earmarks and political goodies the very next week.

THE PRIMARY CONCERN OF AMERICANS TODAY--is the national DEBT

 

[The Rabbi]

Yes he will. Assuming they turn around soon.

If not, he will get credit for stunting the recovery.

Republicans better pray for things not improving, otherwise the number of heart attacks in November of 2012 would put a huge burden on newly created health program.

WHAT? Repulicans putting party before the good of the country? sounds like business as usual to me. republicans always pray for things to not improve whenever they are out of power.

As opposed to the Democrats who have proven themselves team players in and out of power, right?
What a tool.

 

[froggy]

Why do some people think a new pres. is gonna automatically fix something that another admin took eight years to mess up?

 

[The Rabbi]

Why do some people think a new pres. is gonna automatically fix something that another admin took eight years to mess up?

Um, because they are gullible? Because he promised to do just that?

 

[froggy]

Why do some people think a new pres. is gonna automatically fix something that another admin took eight years to mess up?

Um, because they are gullible? Because he promised to do just that?

I guess that means your gullible for believing he could.

 

[CMike]

Why do some people think a new pres. is gonna automatically fix something that another admin took eight years to mess up?

The new president has been destroying this economy.

He brought up the unemployment rate to double digits and it's even now still at 9.7%.

 

[jillian]

Last week's jubilant signing of the health care overhaul, Obama's signature domestic initiative, seems to have given the president little boost. Instead, his standing on four personal qualities has sagged, and 50% of those surveyed say he doesn't deserve re-election.

Poll: More blame Obama for poor economy, unemployment - USATODAY.com

Maybe you do another gloating tour Barry, that last one helped you sooooooooo much.

or maybe people need to stop lying and repeating propaganda?

 

[The Rabbi]

Last week's jubilant signing of the health care overhaul, Obama's signature domestic initiative, seems to have given the president little boost. Instead, his standing on four personal qualities has sagged, and 50% of those surveyed say he doesn't deserve re-election.

Poll: More blame Obama for poor economy, unemployment - USATODAY.com

Maybe you do another gloating tour Barry, that last one helped you sooooooooo much.

or maybe people need to stop lying and repeating propaganda?

D0es this mean you're not posting here anymore?

 

[jillian]

Poll: More blame Obama for poor economy, unemployment - USATODAY.com

Maybe you do another gloating tour Barry, that last one helped you sooooooooo much.

or maybe people need to stop lying and repeating propaganda?

D0es this mean you're not posting here anymore?

awwwwww... looky looky the insane troll pretend rabbi showed up.

poor sad lonely little nutbar

 

[The Rabbi]

or maybe people need to stop lying and repeating propaganda?

D0es this mean you're not posting here anymore?

awwwwww... looky looky the insane troll pretend rabbi showed up.

poor sad lonely little nutbar

And yet you bothered to neg rep me for the post. How considerate.
Actually lies and propaganda would be an improvement over the usual inane comments and faux witticisms you usually post.
Like this one.