POLL: Does the left want to end capitalism?

[Tehon]

Yes, I already expressed a similar opinion at the start of our conversation. But cracks in the system are already appearing and people are starting to look for something different. I don't see the ignorance coming from my point of view.

For the time being the best we can do is something similar to what the Nordic countries do. If you agree with that then the comment about ignorance wasn't for you.

I don't agree with the Nordic approach. I think we can do better. What I do agree with is that people aren't ready for the Marxist approach.

 

[Confounding]

Yes, I already expressed a similar opinion at the start of our conversation. But cracks in the system are already appearing and people are starting to look for something different. I don't see the ignorance coming from my point of view.

For the time being the best we can do is something similar to what the Nordic countries do. If you agree with that then the comment about ignorance wasn't for you.

I don't agree with the Nordic approach. I think we can do better. What I do agree with is that people aren't ready for the Marxist approach.

The Nordic countries are pretty happy with their model. What would you do to improve it? What do you think is possible today?

 

[danielpalos]

It's my opinion that the left wing is not an opponent of capitalism.

So what is your impression of the responses so far?

I'm very surprised. The left wing is more ignorant than I realized.

Tax Cut Economics is pure ignorance that benefits those with the most capital, the most.

 

[rightwinger]

To function efficiently, Capitalism needs government oversight to maintain a level playing field

 

[iamwhatiseem]

It's my opinion that the left wing is not an opponent of capitalism. What do you think?

I think it is irrelevant.
We don't have capitalism in America anymore, if we ever did.
We might have, post WW I till the late 70's. But certainly not before that, and certainly not after.
People consistently confuse capitalism with a free market. We do not have free markets. Not even close.
Today we have corporatism. And corporatism is not capitalism, the same as rape is not sex.

You are confusing capitalism with free markets when you claim capitalism is dependent on them. This is actually at the root of the misunderstanding about what socialism is fundamentally.

I am not confused about socialism. Never was.
Some use of socialistic policies is often needed. Unfortunately.
For instance, I have zero problems with "safety net" style social programs. As long as they are limited, and not used as welfare.
In a modern, civilized society, people who go through rough patches in life might need temporary assistance till they get back on their feet.

 

[Confounding]

It's my opinion that the left wing is not an opponent of capitalism.

So what is your impression of the responses so far?

I'm very surprised. The left wing is more ignorant than I realized.

Tax Cut Economics is pure ignorance that benefits those with the most capital, the most.

I think in general the right wing is more ignorant than the left. This thread has shifted my perspective somewhat, though. It's closer than I thought.

 

[danielpalos]

You made the statement, clarify or don't.

You didn't clarify the statement I was responding to any more than I clarified mine ...

On the other hand ... You specifically told the other poster to "go educate themselves".
So either show us your education or shut the fuck up.

I am not going to try and prove your negative assertion.
I mean really ... "what elements of socialism that don't involve government cannot be accomplished under capitalism?"

.​

.​

My statement didn't need clarification. Socialism is a socioeconomic relationship. It is not a form of government.

Yes, that's correct. Governments, can be from Democrat socialists (mob rule) to Communists (party rule). Socialist governments are all authoritarian though because the government centrally plans the economy and the government uses guns to enforce that policy

It is not required that a centralized government plan the economy of a community. The centralized government rises out of the need to protect all of the communities from the capitalist invaders.

Planned, new cities should be a modern discipline for the US.

 

[kaz]

It's my opinion that the left wing is not an opponent of capitalism. What do you think?

Apparently, every group disagrees with you. Open your eyes

There haven't been a lot of votes from the left, but I'll admit I am surprised. Any left winger that wants to dismantle capitalism doesn't have more than an ankle deep understanding of economics in my opinion. Idealism doesn't work in the real world. You have to create some kind of middle ground.

It's driven by ignorance. If leftists were actually liberals (they're not), then they would understand and care that things like the minimum wage and illegal immigration do nothing but hurt the poor. And they wouldn't say stupid things like that government hiring someone creates a job

 

[kaz]

It's my opinion that the left wing is not an opponent of capitalism.

So what is your impression of the responses so far?

I'm very surprised. The left wing is more ignorant than I realized.

Tax Cut Economics is pure ignorance that benefits those with the most capital, the most.

I think in general the right wing is more ignorant than the left. This thread has shifted my perspective somewhat, though. It's closer than I thought.

What is the left correct about?

 

[danielpalos]

It's my opinion that the left wing is not an opponent of capitalism.

So what is your impression of the responses so far?

I'm very surprised. The left wing is more ignorant than I realized.

Tax Cut Economics is pure ignorance that benefits those with the most capital, the most.

I think in general the right wing is more ignorant than the left. This thread has shifted my perspective somewhat, though. It's closer than I thought.

Tax Cut Economics is WorthLess, if it doesn't cover Spending.
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
And, there is still no provision to upgrade any infrastructure.

 

[Mac1958]

It's my opinion that the left wing is not an opponent of capitalism.

So what is your impression of the responses so far?

I'm very surprised. The left wing is more ignorant than I realized.

Tax Cut Economics is pure ignorance that benefits those with the most capital, the most.

I think in general the right wing is more ignorant than the left. This thread has shifted my perspective somewhat, though. It's closer than I thought.

And it's getting worse, now that they have essentially created an informational/editorial closed circuit from which they see the world.
.

 

[kaz]

You made the statement, clarify or don't.

You didn't clarify the statement I was responding to any more than I clarified mine ...

On the other hand ... You specifically told the other poster to "go educate themselves".
So either show us your education or shut the fuck up.

I am not going to try and prove your negative assertion.
I mean really ... "what elements of socialism that don't involve government cannot be accomplished under capitalism?"

.​

.​

My statement didn't need clarification. Socialism is a socioeconomic relationship. It is not a form of government.

Yes, that's correct. Governments, can be from Democrat socialists (mob rule) to Communists (party rule). Socialist governments are all authoritarian though because the government centrally plans the economy and the government uses guns to enforce that policy

It is not required that a centralized government plan the economy of a community. The centralized government rises out of the need to protect all of the communities from the capitalist invaders.

That doesn't contradict what I said

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I think in general the right wing is more ignorant than the left. This thread has shifted my perspective somewhat, though. It's closer than I thought.

As far as everyday people... Democrats and Republicans, generally speaking, have VERY close basic economic philosophies.
We are told we don't. Repeatedly. And this is why the powers that be do everything they can to keep us from talking directly.

 

[Confounding]

It's my opinion that the left wing is not an opponent of capitalism.

So what is your impression of the responses so far?

I'm very surprised. The left wing is more ignorant than I realized.

Tax Cut Economics is pure ignorance that benefits those with the most capital, the most.

I think in general the right wing is more ignorant than the left. This thread has shifted my perspective somewhat, though. It's closer than I thought.

What is the left correct about?

Completely unchecked capitalism does not work for ordinary people. It eats itself and becomes destructive to the comfort of everyday people.

 

[Tehon]

Yes, I already expressed a similar opinion at the start of our conversation. But cracks in the system are already appearing and people are starting to look for something different. I don't see the ignorance coming from my point of view.

For the time being the best we can do is something similar to what the Nordic countries do. If you agree with that then the comment about ignorance wasn't for you.

I don't agree with the Nordic approach. I think we can do better. What I do agree with is that people aren't ready for the Marxist approach.

The Nordic countries are pretty happy with their model. What would you do to improve it? What do you think is possible today?

I have no desire to improve the Nordic model, it's unsustainable. Today I'm content watching capitalism do its thing, for better or worse.

 

[Mac1958]

So what is your impression of the responses so far?

I'm very surprised. The left wing is more ignorant than I realized.

Tax Cut Economics is pure ignorance that benefits those with the most capital, the most.

I think in general the right wing is more ignorant than the left. This thread has shifted my perspective somewhat, though. It's closer than I thought.

What is the left correct about?

Completely unchecked capitalism does not work for ordinary people. It eats itself and becomes destructive to the comfort of everyday people.

Yep. The screamingly obvious point of equilibrium here is effective and efficient regulation. But the libertarians controlling the GOP and the left wingers controlling the Dems have other ideas.
.

 

[Confounding]

Yes, I already expressed a similar opinion at the start of our conversation. But cracks in the system are already appearing and people are starting to look for something different. I don't see the ignorance coming from my point of view.

For the time being the best we can do is something similar to what the Nordic countries do. If you agree with that then the comment about ignorance wasn't for you.

I don't agree with the Nordic approach. I think we can do better. What I do agree with is that people aren't ready for the Marxist approach.

The Nordic countries are pretty happy with their model. What would you do to improve it? What do you think is possible today?

I have no desire to improve the Nordic model, it's unsustainable. Today I'm content watching capitalism do its thing, for better or worse.

What do you think is possible today? What would you do if you had the power to change everything?

 

[danielpalos]

It's my opinion that the left wing is not an opponent of capitalism.

So what is your impression of the responses so far?

I'm very surprised. The left wing is more ignorant than I realized.

Tax Cut Economics is pure ignorance that benefits those with the most capital, the most.

I think in general the right wing is more ignorant than the left. This thread has shifted my perspective somewhat, though. It's closer than I thought.

And it's getting worse, now that they have essentially created an informational/editorial closed circuit from which they see the world.
.

we don't need gossip; we need better solutions at lower cost from the right wing.

and, maybe a few redheads.

 

[Tehon]

You made the statement, clarify or don't.

You didn't clarify the statement I was responding to any more than I clarified mine ...

On the other hand ... You specifically told the other poster to "go educate themselves".
So either show us your education or shut the fuck up.

I am not going to try and prove your negative assertion.
I mean really ... "what elements of socialism that don't involve government cannot be accomplished under capitalism?"

.​

.​

My statement didn't need clarification. Socialism is a socioeconomic relationship. It is not a form of government.

Yes, that's correct. Governments, can be from Democrat socialists (mob rule) to Communists (party rule). Socialist governments are all authoritarian though because the government centrally plans the economy and the government uses guns to enforce that policy

It is not required that a centralized government plan the economy of a community. The centralized government rises out of the need to protect all of the communities from the capitalist invaders.

That doesn't contradict what I said

I don't know that it was intended to.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

What do you think is possible today? What would you do if you had the power to change everything?

You didn't ask me but I will answer.
I would put policies in place to encourage small businesses. And remove the log jam of regulations that are in place only to protect big businesses in those markets.
At the same time, we need to lower the % of GDP that the financial markets have. It is not healthy overall for the investment/credit crowd to have beyond 10-15% of GDP. Today it is just over 20%, and it shows. Investor interests rarely agrees with main street interests.
Then I would do something to combat corporate hold on the federal government. The legislative branch has absolutely been rendered useless due to corruption and an unwillingness to lead.
We need campaign reform, and we need it now.
That is a little start.