POLL: Do you Think President Obama is a Partisan Democrat?

[MaggieMae]

Obama's not even a Liberal anymore, never mind a Marxist. But whatever helps the right sleep better at night in helping their justification that Obama is evil.

The problem as I see it is that so many people just hate him, period, that they fail to see what he's attempted to do. And it isn't some covert plan to transform this country into another France or a Marxist regime. Capitalism on many levels simply does not work in a diverse society such as ours. As Churchill once stated about democracy, it's the worst of all economic systems--except for all the others.

I wish more people would take the time to read this rather long article on capitalism as it exists in modern societies, and why standing alone without balancing offsets, will fail. STABILIZATION is the key, which ironically will ultimately allow the free market to be free again, which is what the Obama Administration has been trying to do.

Some excerpts:

Capitalism means growth, but also instability. The system is dynamic and inherently prone to crashes that cause great damage along the way. For about 90 years, we have been trying to regulate the system to stabilize it while still preserving its energy. We are at the start of another set of these efforts. In undertaking them, it is important to keep in mind what exactly went wrong. What we are experiencing is not a crisis of capitalism. It is a crisis of finance, of democracy, of globalization and ultimately of ethics.
...
Capitalism messed up," the British tycoon Martin Sorrell wrote recently, "or, to be more precise, capitalists did." Actually, that's not true. Finance screwed up, or to be more precise, financiers did. In June 2007, when the financial crisis began, Coca-Cola, PepsiCo, IBM, Nike, Wal-Mart and Microsoft were all running their companies with strong balance sheets and sensible business models. Major American corporations were highly profitable, and they were spending prudently, holding on to cash to build a cushion for a downturn. For that reason, many of them have been able to weather the storm remarkably well. Finance and anything finance-related—like real estate—is another story.
...
Finance has a history of messing up, from the Dutch tulip bubble in 1637 to now. The proximate causes of these busts have been varied, but follow a strikingly similar path. In calm times, political stability, economic growth and technological innovation all encourage an atmosphere of easy money and new forms of credit. Cheap credit causes greed, miscalculation and eventually ruin.

Zakaria: A Capitalist Manifesto | Newsweek Business | Newsweek.com

 

[MaggieMae]

Little Lord Obammyroy has been and will always be as ILliberal as they come.

He's as pure an authoritarian statist as we've had in the nation's history.

Why? Because it appears on the surface to be at the opposite end of the spectrum from conservative totalitarianism?

 

[MaggieMae]

It's difficult to be non-partisan when the other party is saying only "no," and it's never proposing alternatives or compromises.

You sound like the republicans circa 2005

How could the Democrats have proposed alternatives or made compromises when they were shut out of all the key committee meetings? The GOP doesn't have that excuse this time...

I heard Jeff Flake on C-Span this morning trying to sell that point against the Democrats. I don't usually try to call in to that program, and wasn't successful when I tried this time. But had I gotten through I would have simply asked Flake (how appropriate) if he really thought Dems restriction of amendments by Republicans was something *new*? And I would have added that some of us didn't sleep all through 2000 though 2006 and are fully aware that the Republican majority pulled the same crap, only worse. At least the Democrats are allowing SOME amendments, just not the flood of them which would have created a back-door filibuster on many issues.

 

[Navy1960]

I have no doubt that Obama and many that support him are not fan's of Capitalism, in fact it doesn't suprise me at all that many would have expectations that Govt. would be the best place to provide all the needs in life that many would not seek out for themselves. The very nature of Capitalism is winners and losers and ,however in the Obama world there should be no such thing as losers and you win simply by being. Yes Capitalism may not be the ultimate system for a society but it's the best as Churchill best put it. What seems to be the issue here is that many wish to live in a society that rewards everyone simply for being and takes from those that would dare to rise above their fellow cistizens through the very sweat of their own labor. The society that Obama wishes to create is akin to a 3rd world nation that creates nothing, but yet demands everything and is debt to everyone. So if this is the society that you wish to create for yourselves then of course you have every right to do so. I for one have seen directly the results of what these marxist and socialist nirvanas that many wish for have resulted in and will do everything in my power to see to it that DOES NOT HAPPEN here. In the end if you wish to have the things in life that you desire and need YOU are the best person to decide that for yourself.

 

[MaggieMae]

Obama to GOP: ‘I Won’ - Washington Wire - WSJ

Since when was rubbing salt into the wound bi-partisan?

McCain had one position on a given issue, Obama had another. Obama won the election (where "I won" came from), which means he gets to make the call. It's either that or flip flop, which the GOP seems to hate even more...

If your going to come in and say "My way or the highway," don't then bitch "But you're not being Bipartisan, GOP!"

Is the GOP causing hell? Yes. Does Obama give a damn? No. He's ramming bills through Congress regardless.

Or have you forgotten the $800 billion theft....I mean stimulus?

Homework assignment - browze through this. You can even see on a daily basis how New York is spending stimulus money:

Follow the Stimulus Money - ProPublica

Much of it hasn't even been allocated yet. Why? Because there will be no BLANK CHECKS. So look to individual states who in some cases are the reason behind stimulus funds just sitting collecting dust.

 

[MaggieMae]

Wait, in your world, conservatives want to nationalize the Finance, Automobile, and Healthcare industries?

Up is down, it seems...

Obama isn't a Conservative but he isn't a Liberal either. Obama holds several positions that are not Liberal along with the simple fact he is continuing more and more of GWBs policies. He was once a Liberal when he was a senator, but he is no longer a senator. He has moved more, and more to the center since becoming President.

A Liberal for example would of supported Single-Payer Health Care, Obama isn't.

A Liberal for example would support Gay Marriage, and the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't tell". He isn't.

A Liberal would support the abolishment of the Death Penalty, Obama isn't.

A Liberal wouldn't support the Patriot Act among some of the other Bush techniques in "protecting our country", Obama is.

A Liberal would end the War on Drugs, Obama isn't.

A Liberal would legalize Medical Marijuana if not Marijuana in general, Obama isn't.

The list goes on. Under the definition of the narrow right definition of the right wing, Obama is an Liberal. To everybody else, and the rest of the world however, Obama is Moderate Left at best.

I'm also not sure what is "bi-partisan" from the right when they're more focused on "breaking Obama" and making Health Care his "Waterloo".

Yes, the list is endless. He is FOR properly funded charter schools. He is AGAINST tenuring teachers on anything other than merit. He is AGAINST affirmative action solely for blacks and based on a quota system.

 

[MaggieMae]

You sound like the republicans circa 2005

How could the Democrats have proposed alternatives or made compromises when they were shut out of all the key committee meetings? The GOP doesn't have that excuse this time...

But they do. The democrats dont even involve them in writing the bills right now. As Pelosi and Obama both told the other side "We Won"

The minority party can write any bill they want. But it remains up to the majority leadership to put it on the floor's agenda. Usually the bills are written by the majority party and the minority party offers amendments to it. There's nothing unusual about this process at all. But when a minority party's proposed bill or amendment clearly is intended to ramrod the one already existing, it doesn't stand a chance in hell.

 

[eagleseven]

Little Lord Obammyroy has been and will always be as ILliberal as they come.

He's as pure an authoritarian statist as we've had in the nation's history.

Why? Because it appears on the surface to be at the opposite end of the spectrum from conservative totalitarianism?

Why? Because he's nationalizing three of the largest sectors of our economy, you asshat.

 

[MaggieMae]

I think he spoke like he was going to be bi partisan at his inaguaral but he never seemed to actually deliver on the words of bipartisanship. he still has 3.5 years though so that, I hope, can change.

I think many of us would like to see some bi-partisanship. Buth how would you treat people who's stated goal is to destroy you politically?

Extend the olive branch...very publicly in a way that can not be misconstrued.

All I can say is you must have been asleep during the first two months of Obama's presidency. Prior to approval of the Stimulus Bill, both McConnell and Boehner were already grumbling, so Obama actually paid a visit to THEM on Capitol Hill, rather than summoning them to the Oval Office. That happened the last week in January, as I recall, but thereafter the Republicans gathered all their wagons in a circle and decided to grandstand against any stimulus package at all. Boehner was inyourface on this even more than Pelosi, revving up the herd to JUST SAY NO. McConnell, being a little more gentlemanly, did the same thing only sounding a little less like an asshole.

Obama appointed Ray LaHood, a Republican, as Transportation Secretary, offered the Commerce post to Judd Gregg who, accepting the position then turning it down, couldn't wait to get on television and blast Obama from one end of Pennsylvania Avenue to the other.

And you wonder why, after just over 200 days of this nonstop bullshit, Obama is appearing more partisan?

 

[Navy1960]

Let's see let me recap.

800 Billion dollar stimulus introduced with on a Thursday evening prior to debate its over 1000 pages long gave members little time to actually read it. The bill has resulted in such things as 3.2 million dollars spent on turtle tunnels, 1.7 million on marsh mice studies, and a whole host of spending that will not create jobs, and all this in the face of statements made along these lines , that unemployment will not rise above 8.5% with it's passage. This bill is a disaster and is showing as a disaster and no amount of spin will make it better.

1.2 Trillion for a cap and Trade bill that over 300 pages was presented in the middle of the night and was not even given to members and assumed they would go to the congressional web page to read it. However, debate went forward with amendments cut off and here is another bill that proposes more Govt. mandates and add to the deficit.

1.6 Trillion for a healthcare bill that Nancy Pelosi is determined to ram through the house regardless how much damage it will do.

So spare me this notion of how much the democrats are doing things so well, when by the end of this year if all these bills actually pass into law, the deficit will be tripled in one year of Obama's Administration. So please spare me this notion of how much the democrats care when the plan on turning this nation into a 3rd world backwater.

 

[Oddball]

Little Lord Obammyroy has been and will always be as ILliberal as they come.

He's as pure an authoritarian statist as we've had in the nation's history.

Why? Because it appears on the surface to be at the opposite end of the spectrum from conservative totalitarianism?

Another post born of the hopelessly Hegelianistic polarized mind.

Illiberal authoritarians are illiberal authoritarians......Doesn't matter which superfluous label you wish to apply to them.

 

[Big Black Dog]

It just amazes me how the liberals buy into Obama's song and dance routine so blindly. One thing about it all. When the shit hits the fan there will be nobody to point a finger at except for the Democrats. Can't hang any of this bullshit on the Republicans. They won't even be able to blame Bush this time around so what are they going to do? Most likely blame the Republicans for not protecting them from themselves.

 

[chanel]

He is a Marxist. You should have added a third category.

How so? What has he, as POTUS, nationalized thus far? And please don't say financial institutions or the auto industry because you would be wrong. What has he attempted to nationalized without legislative input?

I'm not sure what you are asking. "No legislative input"? No one said he was a dictator Of course he is in consultation with the "Axis of taxes" - Pelosi/Reid/Franks etc

Um the banks and auto companies don't count? Por que?

How about the old "wealth spread", nationalized healthcare, and lest we not forget the Global Poverty act. His rhetoric and his actions are socialist if not communist. And so are most of his pals..

 

[MaggieMae]

Let's see let me recap.

800 Billion dollar stimulus introduced with on a Thursday evening prior to debate its over 1000 pages long gave members little time to actually read it. The bill has resulted in such things as 3.2 million dollars spent on turtle tunnels, 1.7 million on marsh mice studies, and a whole host of spending that will not create jobs, and all this in the face of statements made along these lines , that unemployment will not rise above 8.5% with it's passage. This bill is a disaster and is showing as a disaster and no amount of spin will make it better.

1.2 Trillion for a cap and Trade bill that over 300 pages was presented in the middle of the night and was not even given to members and assumed they would go to the congressional web page to read it. However, debate went forward with amendments cut off and here is another bill that proposes more Govt. mandates and add to the deficit.

1.6 Trillion for a healthcare bill that Nancy Pelosi is determined to ram through the house regardless how much damage it will do.

So spare me this notion of how much the democrats are doing things so well, when by the end of this year if all these bills actually pass into law, the deficit will be tripled in one year of Obama's Administration. So please spare me this notion of how much the democrats care when the plan on turning this nation into a 3rd world backwater.

1. You people still just...don't...get...it. Show me the provisions relating to turtles and mice in the Stimulus Bill. Please. I'm sure everyone else is curious too. Could it be you are clueless HOW the money is distributed? Actually, a lot of it has not been distributed to the states because they will not be getting blank checks, which is a good thing for God's sake!!)

The majority of the $787 billion isn't pork. Indeed, tax relief alone makes up some 34% of the bill. Where you might find the pork is in the so-called discretionary spending portion of the bill, which amount to $308 billion, according to the CBO. Of that money, $48 billion goes to the Department of Transportation for various rail and road projects to repair and expand infrastructure. That leaves about $260 billion of discretionary spending that goes to various federal agencies, as well as to state and local governments. How much of that amount helps special interests instead of the economy depends, of course, on what you consider a special interest.

2. Agreement on health care reform remains ellusive even as I post this.

3. There’s still a long road ahead for the legislation on cap and trade. The Senate isn’t expected to take up the issue until fall at the earliest—and the path to passage there will be tougher than passage in the House.

Listen, folks, if you want to bash Obama--go for it. But stop with the lies about where things stand, will ya?

 

[MaggieMae]

He is a Marxist. You should have added a third category.

How so? What has he, as POTUS, nationalized thus far? And please don't say financial institutions or the auto industry because you would be wrong. What has he attempted to nationalized without legislative input?

I'm not sure what you are asking. "No legislative input"? No one said he was a dictator Of course he is in consultation with the "Axis of taxes" - Pelosi/Reid/Franks etc

Um the banks and auto companies don't count? Por que?

How about the old "wealth spread", nationalized healthcare, and lest we not forget the Global Poverty act. His rhetoric and his actions are socialist if not communist. And so are most of his pals..

So you admit you are utterly clueless as to WHY any of this stuff matters. Good job--carry on. You've earned your credentials as belonging to the fact-free herd mentality of the right.

 

[MaggieMae]

It just amazes me how the liberals buy into Obama's song and dance routine so blindly. One thing about it all. When the shit hits the fan there will be nobody to point a finger at except for the Democrats. Can't hang any of this bullshit on the Republicans. They won't even be able to blame Bush this time around so what are they going to do? Most likely blame the Republicans for not protecting them from themselves.

Let's pretend that actually happens. What will the Republicans do when they swoop in to claim victory and announce they are going to clean up after Obama? What will their plan be? Give yaw'll tax breaks, then tell everybody they're on their own? Yep, they'll create those jobs awwwright. Tens of thousands of street sweepers to get rid of all the dead bodies.

REPUBLICANS HAVE NO PLAN!! Since the economy began to tank, as it then inevitably got sucked into an abyss, and as it now begins to recover, THEY STILL HAVE NO PLAN!!!

 

[Meister]

This thread was inspired by this poll i found Rasmussen Reports™: The Most Comprehensive Public Opinion Data Anywhere

Take the poll and see if we in the forum poll the same as rasmussen's likely voter polls


My Opinion is that he has not really tried to be a non-partisan president, I don't blame him really as his party has total domination of the legislative branch. If I was president and had control of congress I'd be acting the same way, I'd just be doing totally different stuff

I think he tried to be bipartisan when he got into office in january. but it's really difficult to maintain that kind of effort when the people who are supposed to be working with you give you the finger and decide that from a political perspective "breaking" the president is more important.

In order to get the moderate democrats votes he would have had to campaigne that way. I think he would not have recieved a lot of democrat votes if he had been as far left as he is now.
This has nothing to do with the conservatives "breaking" the president. This is politics as usual, and nothing more......except a president who has Congress, and the Senate majority that is spending our way to bankruptcy.

 

[Political Junky]

Obama's not even a Liberal anymore, never mind a Marxist. But whatever helps the right sleep better at night in helping their justification that Obama is evil.

 

[eagleseven]

It just amazes me how the liberals buy into Obama's song and dance routine so blindly. One thing about it all. When the shit hits the fan there will be nobody to point a finger at except for the Democrats. Can't hang any of this bullshit on the Republicans. They won't even be able to blame Bush this time around so what are they going to do? Most likely blame the Republicans for not protecting them from themselves.

Let's pretend that actually happens. What will the Republicans do when they swoop in to claim victory and announce they are going to clean up after Obama? What will their plan be? Give yaw'll tax breaks, then tell everybody they're on their own? Yep, they'll create those jobs awwwright. Tens of thousands of street sweepers to get rid of all the dead bodies.

REPUBLICANS HAVE NO PLAN!! Since the economy began to tank, as it then inevitably got sucked into an abyss, and as it now begins to recover, THEY STILL HAVE NO PLAN!!!

You forget. Republicans have 3 more years before they need to worry about the Presidency.

The Democrats are fucking things up right now. And you're a fucking moron if you believe Timothy Geitner can save America's automobile industry.

4 months after the "Stimulus" passed, and we're still tanking. Hard. The Democrats are now even ignoring Keynes with their lust for Nationalized Healthcare...


You can call people moronic all you want, but they're still unemployed. You can't spin that fact, buddy.

 

[Navy1960]

Let's see let me recap.

800 Billion dollar stimulus introduced with on a Thursday evening prior to debate its over 1000 pages long gave members little time to actually read it. The bill has resulted in such things as 3.2 million dollars spent on turtle tunnels, 1.7 million on marsh mice studies, and a whole host of spending that will not create jobs, and all this in the face of statements made along these lines , that unemployment will not rise above 8.5% with it's passage. This bill is a disaster and is showing as a disaster and no amount of spin will make it better.

1.2 Trillion for a cap and Trade bill that over 300 pages was presented in the middle of the night and was not even given to members and assumed they would go to the congressional web page to read it. However, debate went forward with amendments cut off and here is another bill that proposes more Govt. mandates and add to the deficit.

1.6 Trillion for a healthcare bill that Nancy Pelosi is determined to ram through the house regardless how much damage it will do.

So spare me this notion of how much the democrats are doing things so well, when by the end of this year if all these bills actually pass into law, the deficit will be tripled in one year of Obama's Administration. So please spare me this notion of how much the democrats care when the plan on turning this nation into a 3rd world backwater.

1. You people still just...don't...get...it. Show me the provisions relating to turtles and mice in the Stimulus Bill. Please. I'm sure everyone else is curious too. Could it be you are clueless HOW the money is distributed? Actually, a lot of it has not been distributed to the states because they will not be getting blank checks, which is a good thing for God's sake!!)

The majority of the $787 billion isn't pork. Indeed, tax relief alone makes up some 34% of the bill. Where you might find the pork is in the so-called discretionary spending portion of the bill, which amount to $308 billion, according to the CBO. Of that money, $48 billion goes to the Department of Transportation for various rail and road projects to repair and expand infrastructure. That leaves about $260 billion of discretionary spending that goes to various federal agencies, as well as to state and local governments. How much of that amount helps special interests instead of the economy depends, of course, on what you consider a special interest.

2. Agreement on health care reform remains ellusive even as I post this.

3. There’s still a long road ahead for the legislation on cap and trade. The Senate isn’t expected to take up the issue until fall at the earliest—and the path to passage there will be tougher than passage in the House.

Listen, folks, if you want to bash Obama--go for it. But stop with the lies about where things stand, will ya?

Like Biden said,there are bound to be some mistakes with spending and projected figures coming from the White House with such a large project as the Stimulus bill. In any case, Florida has allotted some of their Stimulus money,3.4 million, to go for a 13 ft. "Turtle Tunnel" near Tallahassee,Fla.

Charlotte Front and Center: Turtles Receive 3.4 Million from Obama's Stimulus Plan

The tiny mouse that became a hotly disputed symbol of wasteful spending in the congressional debate over the $787 billion economic stimulus bill has returned to pester House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

The Obama administration quietly announced last week that as much as $16.1 million from the stimulus program is going to save the San Francisco Bay area habitat of, among other things, the endangered salt marsh harvest mouse.That has revived Republican criticism that the pet project was an "invisible earmark" in the massive spending bill for Mrs. Pelosi, whose San Francisco district abuts the bay, and epitomizes the failure of stimulus spending to help an economy still shedding jobs.
The Club For Growth - http://www.clubforgrowth.org

"I believe that legislation of this enormous magnitude, that by necessity we are moving quickly -- we're not moving quickly because we're trying to jamb something down people's throats. We're moving quickly because we're told that if we don't move quickly, that the economy is going keep on getting worse, and we'll have another 2 or 3 or 4 million jobs loss this year." Barack Obama

"This plan will save or create over three million jobs -- almost all of them in the private sector." Barack Obama


It's unclear whether this will work, because polls show mounting anxiety about Obama's policies. These include his $787 billion stimulus package, which has not had a huge impact so far, and, more broadly, the vast spending that has pushed the federal deficit to the unprecedented level of more than $1 trillion this year.

What seems most unsettling to voters is that unemployment keeps going up. It is now at 9.5 percent, the highest in more than 25 years, and the rate is expected to climb to 10 or 11 percent in the next few months. Obama advisers had predicted that his stimulus package would hold unemployment at or below 8 percent.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1376199

(AP) President Barack Obama says unemployment is likely to tick up for several months as the economy recovers from its deepest downturn in decades.

The president said Tuesday that renewed employment typically lags behind other signs of improvement as a swooning economy turns around.

More than 2 million jobs have been lost since Congress passed Obama's $787 billion economic stimulus package. The unemployment rate stands at 9.5 percent, the highest in 26 years.
Obama said the single biggest challenge for the U.S. and other nations is the creation of enough jobs that pay good wages.

He spoke in the Oval Office after meeting with Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende
Obama: Unemployment Rate Likely to Rise - CBS News

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Swindlers, con men, and thieves could siphon off as much as $50 billion of the government's planned stimulus package as the money begins flooding the economy in coming months, according to David Williams, who runs Deloitte Financial Services Advisory and counsels clients on fraud prevention.

Williams predicted that about $500 billion of the total $787 billion stimulus would be channeled into the traditional procurement network for government contracts, while the rest will be spent directly by the government or outside the corporate network.
MarketWatch.com Story

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Vice President Joe Biden acknowledged on Tuesday that some waste is inevitable in the spending of a $787 billion economic stimulus package, in a characteristically blunt assessment.

"We know some of this money is going to be wasted," Biden said during a roundtable discussion in New York with business leaders aimed at promoting the two-year stimulus plan.

Biden says some waste inevitable part of stimulus | Politics | Reuters


I don't have to keep going Maggie, the Stimulus was wrong then, it's wrong now, and has done NOTHING and I mean NOTHING to save jobs or to stimulate the economy. In fact let me cite you a few examples that are close to a democrats heart. I wonder how many teachers my district could have kept had the State of Fl. had not decided to build a 3.4 million dollar tunnel for turtles with your's and my tax money or perhaps the 11 Million that Microsoft is going to use for a bridge for it's employee's, it's not like Microsoft can't afford to build it's own bridge. So spare me this notion of how well the stimulus is working or that somehow it's not legitmate to complain when States are using MY tax money all in the name of a great spending spree under the guises of saving jobs when every single day more and more people continue to lose their jobs. Not 1 cent should have been spent on a Stimulus bill and in fact it would have made no difference in the economy what so ever. It's those who have this misconception that everything that the Administration is doing is correct and not subject to questioning who are being duped and I actually pity them because when reality sets in they will be the ones hit the hardest when they suddenly realize that the nirvana they have been promised is not comming and it's up to them to decide whats best for them. So when you can provide me with unemployment numbers that indicate the stimulus bill is working i.e. 2 million plus new jobs and the deficit lower as well as less than 8% I will stand frim in my belief that President Obama's stimulus package is nothing more than another massive spending program that does nothing more than put this nation further in debt and saddle our children with more debt that it they cannot possibly pay.