Plutocracy or Democracy? YOU will decide in Nov. 2016!

[Katzndogz]

There isn't much I would oppose if it got rid of democrats. If the Koch brothers do it, fine. They might not be republicans but they will do until a republican comes along.

 

[BlackSand]

Because the right wing will never win a national election, they don't want to play on a level field. Instead of winning on ideas - which they cannot - they choose to suppress the right to vote; allow dark money to influence our elections, and support political leaders who appeal to the emotions, fears, prejudices and ignorance of single issue voters; in order to gain power and profits at the expense of the many and to the benefit of the few.

The politicians are all getting power from profit ... If you have no principles that apply across the board, then there is no use in arguing that one group of money/power hungry thieves is any better than the next.

Unless of course you think "light money" comes from people who falsely assume that being altruistic means spending someone else's money.
Talk about misguided direction ... Keep on thinking the government will save you from itself.

.

 

[The Rabbi]

Because the right wing will never win a national election, they don't want to play on a level field. Instead of winning on ideas - which they cannot - they choose to suppress the right to vote; allow dark money to influence our elections, and support political leaders who appeal to the emotions, fears, prejudices and ignorance of single issue voters; in order to gain power and profits at the expense of the many and to the benefit of the few.

You forgot drinking human blood and squashing baby kittens.
Geez

Congratulations, a post sans sexual vulgarities - of course still lacking substance, as usual.

An apt description of every post of yours. Sans the vulgarities of course.
It might be a wise idea if you actually had contact with Republicans instead of rehashing the view of Republicans you get on Maddow and the like. Make you look something like informed.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Nice liberal paranoia thread.

How many jobs have YOU created?

No one really creates jobs out of nothing. That would be charity. In capitalism you fulfill a demand. If there is no demand, there is no job creation. Republicans have never understood this simple fact.

So a business owner waits until there's a line at the counter and says "holy shit, I'd better hire someone!"

Wow, that's educational. Running and growing a business, it's so easy!

I'll have to tell my partners & business clients that.



.

I make a different inference. Without the infrastructure - water, power, sewage, paved roads street signs, safe parking or safe public transportation, a business will have a greater difficulty building a successful enterprise. Of course each of these advantages cost money in the form of taxes, thus you and your partners had a decision to make, one of many when building a business from the ground up.

And, no I have never started a business. However, one of my employees started planning to open a restaurant and I watched his progress from the very beginning. It is difficult, takes an emotional toll and a good deal of patience.

Ironically, he and his wife did very well. They operated the restaurant for over three years when a local chain offered them a huge amount of money to buy them out. Soon he was back at work, investigating domestic violence, making arrest, testifying in court and much more relaxed working for someone, and not supervising everyone of employees.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Because the right wing will never win a national election, they don't want to play on a level field. Instead of winning on ideas - which they cannot - they choose to suppress the right to vote; allow dark money to influence our elections, and support political leaders who appeal to the emotions, fears, prejudices and ignorance of single issue voters; in order to gain power and profits at the expense of the many and to the benefit of the few.

You forgot drinking human blood and squashing baby kittens.
Geez

Congratulations, a post sans sexual vulgarities - of course still lacking substance, as usual.

An apt description of every post of yours. Sans the vulgarities of course.
It might be a wise idea if you actually had contact with Republicans instead of rehashing the view of Republicans you get on Maddow and the like. Make you look something like informed.

Good of you to confirm the Republican Party is right wing. My post wasn't directed entirely on the right wing fringe in the former GOP, but on all those like you who disdain political parties and hold extreme ideas which cannot be considered right wing or lefty wing, and are known within the political science community as the idiot fringe.

During my 32 year career in LE I worked with and interacted with many Republicans, none seemed to hold views like you; in fact the vast majority I had contact with were not challenged by reality and their views were mostly pragmatic. You know them as RINO's.

 

[The Rabbi]

Because the right wing will never win a national election, they don't want to play on a level field. Instead of winning on ideas - which they cannot - they choose to suppress the right to vote; allow dark money to influence our elections, and support political leaders who appeal to the emotions, fears, prejudices and ignorance of single issue voters; in order to gain power and profits at the expense of the many and to the benefit of the few.

You forgot drinking human blood and squashing baby kittens.
Geez

Congratulations, a post sans sexual vulgarities - of course still lacking substance, as usual.

An apt description of every post of yours. Sans the vulgarities of course.
It might be a wise idea if you actually had contact with Republicans instead of rehashing the view of Republicans you get on Maddow and the like. Make you look something like informed.

Good of you to confirm the Republican Party is right wing. My post wasn't directed entirely on the right wing fringe in the former GOP, but on all those like you who disdain political parties and hold extreme ideas which cannot be considered right wing or lefty wing, and are known within the political science community as the idiot fringe.

During my 32 year career in LE I worked with and interacted with many Republicans, none seemed to hold views like you; in fact the vast majority I had contact with were not challenged by reality and their views were mostly pragmatic. You know them as RINO's.

You clearly have reading issue. I suspect you have sanity issues as well.
You never interacted with Republicans. You have truth telling issues as well.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Nice liberal paranoia thread.

How many jobs have YOU created?

No one really creates jobs out of nothing. That would be charity. In capitalism you fulfill a demand. If there is no demand, there is no job creation. Republicans have never understood this simple fact.

So a business owner waits until there's a line at the counter and says "holy shit, I'd better hire someone!"

Wow, that's educational. Running and growing a business, it's so easy!

I'll have to tell my partners & business clients that.



.

I make a different inference. Without the infrastructure - water, power, sewage, paved roads street signs, safe parking or safe public transportation, a business will have a greater difficulty building a successful enterprise. Of course each of these advantages cost money in the form of taxes, thus you and your partners had a decision to make, one of many when building a business from the ground up.

And, no I have never started a business. However, one of my employees started planning to open a restaurant and I watched his progress from the very beginning. It is difficult, takes an emotional toll and a good deal of patience.

Ironically, he and his wife did very well. They operated the restaurant for over three years when a local chain offered them a huge amount of money to buy them out. Soon he was back at work, investigating domestic violence, making arrest, testifying in court and much more relaxed working for someone, and not supervising everyone of employees.

How many new businesses exist today because the government invested in the Internet?

Would we even be able to have this conversation?

The infrastructure is key and without it corporations would have to build their own from the ground up every time they wanted to obtain new supplies or ship products to new customers.

Today we take it for granted but the interstate system was started by Ike and paid for by taxes. How would Amazon be able to ship your Mother's Day gift without those roads?

 

[Mac1958]

Nice liberal paranoia thread.

How many jobs have YOU created?

No one really creates jobs out of nothing. That would be charity. In capitalism you fulfill a demand. If there is no demand, there is no job creation. Republicans have never understood this simple fact.

So a business owner waits until there's a line at the counter and says "holy shit, I'd better hire someone!"

Wow, that's educational. Running and growing a business, it's so easy!

I'll have to tell my partners & business clients that.



.

I make a different inference. Without the infrastructure - water, power, sewage, paved roads street signs, safe parking or safe public transportation, a business will have a greater difficulty building a successful enterprise. Of course each of these advantages cost money in the form of taxes, thus you and your partners had a decision to make, one of many when building a business from the ground up.

And, no I have never started a business. However, one of my employees started planning to open a restaurant and I watched his progress from the very beginning. It is difficult, takes an emotional toll and a good deal of patience.

Ironically, he and his wife did very well. They operated the restaurant for over three years when a local chain offered them a huge amount of money to buy them out. Soon he was back at work, investigating domestic violence, making arrest, testifying in court and much more relaxed working for someone, and not supervising everyone of employees.

How many new businesses exist today because the government invested in the Internet?

Would we even be able to have this conversation?

The infrastructure is key and without it corporations would have to build their own from the ground up every time they wanted to obtain new supplies or ship products to new customers.

Today we take it for granted but the interstate system was started by Ike and paid for by taxes. How would Amazon be able to ship your Mother's Day gift without those roads?

Why are we suddenly now discussing the infrastructure?

I pay my personal income and property taxes, and we pay our corporate taxes.

My post had nothing to do with this, so clearly I'm seeing some attempted deflection.

.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Because the right wing will never win a national election, they don't want to play on a level field. Instead of winning on ideas - which they cannot - they choose to suppress the right to vote; allow dark money to influence our elections, and support political leaders who appeal to the emotions, fears, prejudices and ignorance of single issue voters; in order to gain power and profits at the expense of the many and to the benefit of the few.

You forgot drinking human blood and squashing baby kittens.
Geez

Congratulations, a post sans sexual vulgarities - of course still lacking substance, as usual.

An apt description of every post of yours. Sans the vulgarities of course.
It might be a wise idea if you actually had contact with Republicans instead of rehashing the view of Republicans you get on Maddow and the like. Make you look something like informed.

Good of you to confirm the Republican Party is right wing. My post wasn't directed entirely on the right wing fringe in the former GOP, but on all those like you who disdain political parties and hold extreme ideas which cannot be considered right wing or lefty wing, and are known within the political science community as the idiot fringe.

During my 32 year career in LE I worked with and interacted with many Republicans, none seemed to hold views like you; in fact the vast majority I had contact with were not challenged by reality and their views were mostly pragmatic. You know them as RINO's.

You clearly have reading issue. I suspect you have sanity issues as well.
You never interacted with Republicans. You have truth telling issues as well.

Another personal attack sans evidence and filled with uninformed opinions - how inspiring.

I too feel a need to respond to you in kind: I know you are but what am I.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"The fundraising target is the latest indication that the industrialists at the center of the network, Charles and David Koch, intend to continue building an operation that could exceed the national political parties in size and scope to help advance their libertarian principles.”

By compelling conformity through force of law and at the expense of individual liberty.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Nice liberal paranoia thread.

How many jobs have YOU created?

No one really creates jobs out of nothing. That would be charity. In capitalism you fulfill a demand. If there is no demand, there is no job creation. Republicans have never understood this simple fact.

So a business owner waits until there's a line at the counter and says "holy shit, I'd better hire someone!"

Wow, that's educational. Running and growing a business, it's so easy!

I'll have to tell my partners & business clients that.



.

I make a different inference. Without the infrastructure - water, power, sewage, paved roads street signs, safe parking or safe public transportation, a business will have a greater difficulty building a successful enterprise. Of course each of these advantages cost money in the form of taxes, thus you and your partners had a decision to make, one of many when building a business from the ground up.

And, no I have never started a business. However, one of my employees started planning to open a restaurant and I watched his progress from the very beginning. It is difficult, takes an emotional toll and a good deal of patience.

Ironically, he and his wife did very well. They operated the restaurant for over three years when a local chain offered them a huge amount of money to buy them out. Soon he was back at work, investigating domestic violence, making arrest, testifying in court and much more relaxed working for someone, and not supervising everyone of employees.

How many new businesses exist today because the government invested in the Internet?

Would we even be able to have this conversation?

The infrastructure is key and without it corporations would have to build their own from the ground up every time they wanted to obtain new supplies or ship products to new customers.

Today we take it for granted but the interstate system was started by Ike and paid for by taxes. How would Amazon be able to ship your Mother's Day gift without those roads?

Why are we suddenly now discussing the infrastructure?

I pay my personal income and property taxes, and we pay our corporate taxes.

My post had nothing to do with this, so clearly I'm seeing some attempted deflection.

.

Really? How novel. Do you pay all of them? I recall walking past what appeared to be an abandoned four unit apt house on Grand Cayman Island. Looking at the rather long list of tenants, I was (not) surprised to read the names of several corporations and companies I thought were located here in The States. No, don't take my word for it:

Coca-Cola Oracle Intel Use Cayman Islands to Avoid U.S. Taxes - Bloomberg

 

[The Rabbi]

"The fundraising target is the latest indication that the industrialists at the center of the network, Charles and David Koch, intend to continue building an operation that could exceed the national political parties in size and scope to help advance their libertarian principles.”

By compelling conformity through force of law and at the expense of individual liberty.

Was that supposed to mean something other than "The GOP Is run by the Koch Bros"?

 

[Wry Catcher]

No one really creates jobs out of nothing. That would be charity. In capitalism you fulfill a demand. If there is no demand, there is no job creation. Republicans have never understood this simple fact.

So a business owner waits until there's a line at the counter and says "holy shit, I'd better hire someone!"

Wow, that's educational. Running and growing a business, it's so easy!

I'll have to tell my partners & business clients that.



.

I make a different inference. Without the infrastructure - water, power, sewage, paved roads street signs, safe parking or safe public transportation, a business will have a greater difficulty building a successful enterprise. Of course each of these advantages cost money in the form of taxes, thus you and your partners had a decision to make, one of many when building a business from the ground up.

And, no I have never started a business. However, one of my employees started planning to open a restaurant and I watched his progress from the very beginning. It is difficult, takes an emotional toll and a good deal of patience.

Ironically, he and his wife did very well. They operated the restaurant for over three years when a local chain offered them a huge amount of money to buy them out. Soon he was back at work, investigating domestic violence, making arrest, testifying in court and much more relaxed working for someone, and not supervising everyone of employees.

How many new businesses exist today because the government invested in the Internet?

Would we even be able to have this conversation?

The infrastructure is key and without it corporations would have to build their own from the ground up every time they wanted to obtain new supplies or ship products to new customers.

Today we take it for granted but the interstate system was started by Ike and paid for by taxes. How would Amazon be able to ship your Mother's Day gift without those roads?

Why are we suddenly now discussing the infrastructure?

I pay my personal income and property taxes, and we pay our corporate taxes.

My post had nothing to do with this, so clearly I'm seeing some attempted deflection.

.

Really? How novel. Do you pay all of them? I recall walking past what appeared to be an abandoned four unit apt house on Grand Cayman Island. Looking at the rather long list of tenants, I was (not) surprised to read the names of several corporations and companies I thought were located here in The States. No, don't take my word for it:

Coca-Cola Oracle Intel Use Cayman Islands to Avoid U.S. Taxes - Bloomberg

If there is any deflection it comes form the accuser, not Derideo_Te

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Nice liberal paranoia thread.

How many jobs have YOU created?

Your willful ignorance is noted.

The Koch brothers’ political machine is expanding into new states and recruiting new donors as it seeks to shape the Republican Party — and its presidential field — headed into 2016, according to interviews with multiple sources, as well as confidential donor briefing documents obtained by POLITICO.

Read more: Secret Koch memo outlines plans for 2016 - Kenneth P. Vogel - POLITICO


"Top officials in the Koch brothers' political organization Monday released a staggering $889 million budget to fund the activities of the billionaires' sprawling network ahead of the 2016 presidential contest....


"The fundraising target is the latest indication that the industrialists at the center of the network, Charles and David Koch, intend to continue building an operation that could exceed the national political parties in size and scope to help advance their libertarian principles. The spending, unrivaled for an outside organization, represents more than double the nearly $400 million the Republican National Committee (RNC) raised and spent during the 2012 presidential election cycle."

Full article here: Koch brothers set 889 million budget for 2016

IMO, this effort by members of the 0.01% is nothing less than a bloodless coup, and if it succeeds it will put the last nail into the coffin of Democracy in America. No longer can it be denied that we are a Plutocracy, and that every man, woman and child will be at the mercy of this new Aristocracy, and governed by elected officials on every level of government owned by an Oligarchy of the power elite.

Considering we have had the same people in power for the last 40 years it would appear to me that this is more of a plutcracy than a democracy. We are being governed by the same group of people.

I disagree, the meme that the Democrats and Republicans are one and the same is no longer true, if it ever was. What is true is money = power, and five members of the US Supreme Court made Money = Free Speech, changing forever the concept that we are a nation of the people, by the people or for the people.

We, the 99% of Americans, are facing a new enemy, a domestic one intent on getting and keeping power for generations. The machinations of the Koch Brothers are threatening a system of government by the people which worked - not always well - for over two centuries.

My hope with this thread is to get people thinking, and considering other outcomes than the one they hear from demagogues and charlatans, and the willfully ignorant who parrot the propaganda of those who seek power.

Agreed that most on the right suffer from willful ignorance on the issue.

Agreed that the notion that the democratic and republican parties are 'the same' is a lie; indeed, it's a failed attempt to deflect from the fact that fearful, reactionary conservatives such as the Koch brothers will use their power, money, and influence to force a rightist agenda on the Americans people hostile to citizens' civil rights.

Disagree with regard to the Citizens United ruling, where the Court appropriately invalidated Federal law that violated the First Amendment. The Citizens United Court was not 'endorsing' the undue influence money has on our political process, nor was the Court ignoring the need for campaign finance reform – rather, the Court merely prohibited one measure to address the problem, requiring the people to seek out another solution.

Ultimately it's incumbent upon the American people to educative themselves as to the issues, to vote in an informed and intelligent manner, and to reject the lies and demagoguery common to most on the right.

 

[Wry Catcher]

"The fundraising target is the latest indication that the industrialists at the center of the network, Charles and David Koch, intend to continue building an operation that could exceed the national political parties in size and scope to help advance their libertarian principles.”

By compelling conformity through force of law and at the expense of individual liberty.

Was that supposed to mean something other than "The GOP Is run by the Koch Bros"?

Try to keep up. The Koch Brothers are opposed to anything or anyone who gets in their way. The Democrats seek to regulate polluters, the GOP does not. Thus, the Koch Brothers will support the GOP because the Libertarian Party cannot win a national election.

And they will not support all members of the Republican Party, anyone who strays will find a well funded RINO - maybe even a witch - running against them. They also needed someone biddable to sit in the Oval Office, since they need to keep control of a majority on the Supreme Court.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Is someone suggesting there are a lot of suckers for Koch?

I'm pointing out the amount of money being raised and donated to be used to elect libertarian / tea party / Republicans by the Koch Brothers - not the Koch Brothers on the stump.

They will buy air and print ads under made up names (example, "Swift Boar Veterans) to assassinate the character of Democrats and moderate Republicans; they will hire actors and charlatans who will use other machinations, demagoguery and false pathos to achieve their lust for power. It is the end that matters, not the means; it is not the people, the environment or the traditional values of a democratic nation.

All true.

And currently the only countermeasure to this is to respond with the truth, to confront the lies of the right with facts, and count on the good faith of the American people to realize the truth and vote accordingly.

 

[Mac1958]

No one really creates jobs out of nothing. That would be charity. In capitalism you fulfill a demand. If there is no demand, there is no job creation. Republicans have never understood this simple fact.

So a business owner waits until there's a line at the counter and says "holy shit, I'd better hire someone!"

Wow, that's educational. Running and growing a business, it's so easy!

I'll have to tell my partners & business clients that.



.

I make a different inference. Without the infrastructure - water, power, sewage, paved roads street signs, safe parking or safe public transportation, a business will have a greater difficulty building a successful enterprise. Of course each of these advantages cost money in the form of taxes, thus you and your partners had a decision to make, one of many when building a business from the ground up.

And, no I have never started a business. However, one of my employees started planning to open a restaurant and I watched his progress from the very beginning. It is difficult, takes an emotional toll and a good deal of patience.

Ironically, he and his wife did very well. They operated the restaurant for over three years when a local chain offered them a huge amount of money to buy them out. Soon he was back at work, investigating domestic violence, making arrest, testifying in court and much more relaxed working for someone, and not supervising everyone of employees.

How many new businesses exist today because the government invested in the Internet?

Would we even be able to have this conversation?

The infrastructure is key and without it corporations would have to build their own from the ground up every time they wanted to obtain new supplies or ship products to new customers.

Today we take it for granted but the interstate system was started by Ike and paid for by taxes. How would Amazon be able to ship your Mother's Day gift without those roads?

Why are we suddenly now discussing the infrastructure?

I pay my personal income and property taxes, and we pay our corporate taxes.

My post had nothing to do with this, so clearly I'm seeing some attempted deflection.

.

Really? How novel. Do you pay all of them? I recall walking past what appeared to be an abandoned four unit apt house on Grand Cayman Island. Looking at the rather long list of tenants, I was (not) surprised to read the names of several corporations and companies I thought were located here in The States. No, don't take my word for it:

Coca-Cola Oracle Intel Use Cayman Islands to Avoid U.S. Taxes - Bloomberg

What in the world are you talking about?

.

 

[The Rabbi]

"The fundraising target is the latest indication that the industrialists at the center of the network, Charles and David Koch, intend to continue building an operation that could exceed the national political parties in size and scope to help advance their libertarian principles.”

By compelling conformity through force of law and at the expense of individual liberty.

Was that supposed to mean something other than "The GOP Is run by the Koch Bros"?

Try to keep up. The Koch Brothers are opposed to anything or anyone who gets in their way. The Democrats seek to regulate polluters, the GOP does not. Thus, the Koch Brothers will support the GOP because the Libertarian Party cannot win a national election.

And they will not support all members of the Republican Party, anyone who strays will find a well funded RINO - maybe even a witch - running against them. They also needed someone biddable to sit in the Oval Office, since they need to keep control of a majority on the Supreme Court.

I'd ask for proof of any of that. But loony toons conspiracy cocksuckers like you never have any. You just "know" it's true.
Hint: Who started the EPA?

 

[The Rabbi]

So a business owner waits until there's a line at the counter and says "holy shit, I'd better hire someone!"

Wow, that's educational. Running and growing a business, it's so easy!

I'll have to tell my partners & business clients that.



.

I make a different inference. Without the infrastructure - water, power, sewage, paved roads street signs, safe parking or safe public transportation, a business will have a greater difficulty building a successful enterprise. Of course each of these advantages cost money in the form of taxes, thus you and your partners had a decision to make, one of many when building a business from the ground up.

And, no I have never started a business. However, one of my employees started planning to open a restaurant and I watched his progress from the very beginning. It is difficult, takes an emotional toll and a good deal of patience.

Ironically, he and his wife did very well. They operated the restaurant for over three years when a local chain offered them a huge amount of money to buy them out. Soon he was back at work, investigating domestic violence, making arrest, testifying in court and much more relaxed working for someone, and not supervising everyone of employees.

How many new businesses exist today because the government invested in the Internet?

Would we even be able to have this conversation?

The infrastructure is key and without it corporations would have to build their own from the ground up every time they wanted to obtain new supplies or ship products to new customers.

Today we take it for granted but the interstate system was started by Ike and paid for by taxes. How would Amazon be able to ship your Mother's Day gift without those roads?

Why are we suddenly now discussing the infrastructure?

I pay my personal income and property taxes, and we pay our corporate taxes.

My post had nothing to do with this, so clearly I'm seeing some attempted deflection.

.

Really? How novel. Do you pay all of them? I recall walking past what appeared to be an abandoned four unit apt house on Grand Cayman Island. Looking at the rather long list of tenants, I was (not) surprised to read the names of several corporations and companies I thought were located here in The States. No, don't take my word for it:

Coca-Cola Oracle Intel Use Cayman Islands to Avoid U.S. Taxes - Bloomberg

What in the world are you talking about?

.

Anything but the point.

 

[Mac1958]

I make a different inference. Without the infrastructure - water, power, sewage, paved roads street signs, safe parking or safe public transportation, a business will have a greater difficulty building a successful enterprise. Of course each of these advantages cost money in the form of taxes, thus you and your partners had a decision to make, one of many when building a business from the ground up.

And, no I have never started a business. However, one of my employees started planning to open a restaurant and I watched his progress from the very beginning. It is difficult, takes an emotional toll and a good deal of patience.

Ironically, he and his wife did very well. They operated the restaurant for over three years when a local chain offered them a huge amount of money to buy them out. Soon he was back at work, investigating domestic violence, making arrest, testifying in court and much more relaxed working for someone, and not supervising everyone of employees.

How many new businesses exist today because the government invested in the Internet?

Would we even be able to have this conversation?

The infrastructure is key and without it corporations would have to build their own from the ground up every time they wanted to obtain new supplies or ship products to new customers.

Today we take it for granted but the interstate system was started by Ike and paid for by taxes. How would Amazon be able to ship your Mother's Day gift without those roads?

Why are we suddenly now discussing the infrastructure?

I pay my personal income and property taxes, and we pay our corporate taxes.

My post had nothing to do with this, so clearly I'm seeing some attempted deflection.

.

Really? How novel. Do you pay all of them? I recall walking past what appeared to be an abandoned four unit apt house on Grand Cayman Island. Looking at the rather long list of tenants, I was (not) surprised to read the names of several corporations and companies I thought were located here in The States. No, don't take my word for it:

Coca-Cola Oracle Intel Use Cayman Islands to Avoid U.S. Taxes - Bloomberg

What in the world are you talking about?

.

Anything but the point.

One minute I write a post about business. Then we're suddenly on infrastructure. Then we're visiting the Caymans.

A guy could get whiplash around here.

.