papers, please - once again republicans are working against freedom

So many of you are overlooking the real danger of a law such as this.

Police LOVE laws that extend their power to avoid the 4th Amendment, and well-meaning legislatures fall right into their hands every time. The issue here isn't stopping illegal aliens. The issue is stopping regular citizens who might appear to be illegal aliens but who are not, and then arresting them for whatever the cops happen to find on their persons or in their cars.

In a scenario such as this, the police would have NO probable cause to stop anyone, but for the particular law that gives them that right - in this case, the Arizona "stop and check" law for illegals. In other cases, DUI "checkpoints." Of course, once the person has been detained legally, all bets are off. Police are under no obligation to ignore contraband they observe incidentally while detaining someone for another purpose.

A law such as this one is just one more step toward a true police state - something that is to be avoided at all costs.
Exactly.

It's not to stop illegals, even though that's its intention. Remember, you never base your beliefs on "intention," ESPECIALLY good intention.

It gives the police another orgasm to exercise the power that turns them on.
 
So many of you are overlooking the real danger of a law such as this.

Police LOVE laws that extend their power to avoid the 4th Amendment, and well-meaning legislatures fall right into their hands every time. The issue here isn't stopping illegal aliens. The issue is stopping regular citizens who might appear to be illegal aliens but who are not, and then arresting them for whatever the cops happen to find on their persons or in their cars.

In a scenario such as this, the police would have NO probable cause to stop anyone, but for the particular law that gives them that right - in this case, the Arizona "stop and check" law for illegals. In other cases, DUI "checkpoints." Of course, once the person has been detained legally, all bets are off. Police are under no obligation to ignore contraband they observe incidentally while detaining someone for another purpose.

A law such as this one is just one more step toward a true police state - something that is to be avoided at all costs.
Exactly.

It's not to stop illegals, even though that's its intention. Remember, you never base your beliefs on "intention," ESPECIALLY good intention.

It gives the police another orgasm to exercise the power that turns them on.

Of course the law is designed to stop illegal aliens. The problem is, that it also impacts innocents as well as the guilty. Don't you see that? It's the same thing as a DUI checkpoint. A totally sober person gets stopped in a DUI checkpoint. He'd better not have anything he's not supposed to have in plain view in his car.

Something like that doesn't bother you?

Oh, wait a minute, I know - don't do anything wrong and you won't have anything to worry about. Right . . . :rolleyes:
 
FOXNews.com - Arizona Immigration Enforcement Bill Stirs National Debate

An Arizona bill that would impose some of the toughest immigration laws in the country is generating a storm of controversy nationwide as it tracks toward the governor's desk.

The Arizona Senate voted Monday to approve the final version of the bill, which was voted up on a party-line vote by the state House last Tuesday. If it's signed by Gov. Jan Brewer, it would give police in the state broad new powers to arrest and charge people suspected of being in the country illegally.

so glad the small government conservatives of the republican party are working to preserve people's freedom
They are forced to do the job the feds have punted on.
 
I know of another country that (thankfully) isn't around anymore that used to make people have their "papers" on them at all times.
 
  • Thanks
Reactions: blu
I like the Libs attitude,they as always care more about those outside the law then the ones who abide by it.
They want to make sure that the illegals in this country are protected...How dare we do something to protect ourselves.If those that get stopped and questioned have documentation they go on their way,if they don't then they will be dealt with accordingly...So far I don't have a problem with any of this.
 
I recall teabaggers being outraged at information given on the census, and encouraging people to throw the forms away.
Michele Bachmann said it would cause us to be sent to camps. Has she spoken out against this yet?
 
I like the Libs attitude,they as always care more about those outside the law then the ones who abide by it.
They want to make sure that the illegals in this country are protected...How dare we do something to protect ourselves.If those that get stopped and questioned have documentation they go on their way,if they don't then they will be dealt with accordingly...So far I don't have a problem with any of this.

and what about the american citizens who don't carry around paperwork and happen to be mexican or look something like it? what about the cop having a bad day who decides to take that out on the mexican without paperwork?
 
Rozman is full of crap.

This is an issue every conservative and libertarian in America who loves freedom and liberty should be opposing. I am amazed we have to have the liberals screaming about this instead of us.

Do you so-called cons really place politics above freedom and liberty?
 
  • Thanks
Reactions: blu
The thing that most seem to be overlooking is that it is now a State which has taken it upon themselves to do the Countries job.

If the idiots in Washington would simply close the border then AZ would not have the problem it has with illegals and wouldn't need this type of law.

I applaud them for it. Someone has to step up and enforce the law.
 
  • Thanks
Reactions: blu
The feds will stop them, Ollie, simple as that. I do agree with you that we should shut the border down, period. But business (the GOP) and special indentity politics (the Dems) will not permit it.
 
The thing that most seem to be overlooking is that it is now a State which has taken it upon themselves to do the Countries job.

If the idiots in Washington would simply close the border then AZ would not have the problem it has with illegals and wouldn't need this type of law.

I applaud them for it. Someone has to step up and enforce the law.

I don't agree with AZ's choice of tactic, but I do agree that the federal government is fucking up the situation by not responding to it. They really need to figure it out one or the other and then after its sorted enforce whatever law is agreed upon
 
FOXNews.com - Arizona Immigration Enforcement Bill Stirs National Debate

An Arizona bill that would impose some of the toughest immigration laws in the country is generating a storm of controversy nationwide as it tracks toward the governor's desk.

The Arizona Senate voted Monday to approve the final version of the bill, which was voted up on a party-line vote by the state House last Tuesday. If it's signed by Gov. Jan Brewer, it would give police in the state broad new powers to arrest and charge people suspected of being in the country illegally.

so glad the small government conservatives of the republican party are working to preserve people's freedom



Oh.The.Horror.....Not


The bill contains several provisions. Among them, it would create a new state misdemeanor crime for failing to carry alien registration documents; allow officers to arrest immigrants unable to show documents proving their legal residence; allow people to sue if they feel a government agency has adopted a policy that hinders immigration enforcement; prohibit people from blocking traffic when they seek or offer day labor services on street corners; and make it illegal for people to knowingly transport illegal immigrants.

It basically calls for the state to enforce immigration laws.

Fine by me.
 
I don't agree with AZ's choice of tactic, but I do agree that the federal government is fucking up the situation by not responding to it. They really need to figure it out one or the other and then after its sorted enforce whatever law is agreed upon

They won't do it though. Too many special interests on both sides of the isle blocking enforcement.
 
So many of you are overlooking the real danger of a law such as this.

Police LOVE laws that extend their power to avoid the 4th Amendment, and well-meaning legislatures fall right into their hands every time. The issue here isn't stopping illegal aliens. The issue is stopping regular citizens who might appear to be illegal aliens but who are not, and then arresting them for whatever the cops happen to find on their persons or in their cars.

In a scenario such as this, the police would have NO probable cause to stop anyone, but for the particular law that gives them that right - in this case, the Arizona "stop and check" law for illegals. In other cases, DUI "checkpoints." Of course, once the person has been detained legally, all bets are off. Police are under no obligation to ignore contraband they observe incidentally while detaining someone for another purpose.

A law such as this one is just one more step toward a true police state - something that is to be avoided at all costs.
Exactly.

It's not to stop illegals, even though that's its intention. Remember, you never base your beliefs on "intention," ESPECIALLY good intention.

It gives the police another orgasm to exercise the power that turns them on.

Of course the law is designed to stop illegal aliens. The problem is, that it also impacts innocents as well as the guilty. Don't you see that? It's the same thing as a DUI checkpoint. A totally sober person gets stopped in a DUI checkpoint. He'd better not have anything he's not supposed to have in plain view in his car.

Something like that doesn't bother you?

Oh, wait a minute, I know - don't do anything wrong and you won't have anything to worry about. Right . . . :rolleyes:
Yup...otherwise you are supporting the terrorists! :D

(We're playing a game of sarcasm, yes?)
 
I don't think it I going to last long. Too many ambulance chasers salivating over the profiling suits. Extreme measures are needed, but I don't think this will fly. Cut off the jobs and entitlements and they may run right home. There's got to be a legal way to do that right?
 
I don't think it I going to last long. Too many ambulance chasers salivating over the profiling suits. Extreme measures are needed, but I don't think this will fly. Cut off the jobs and entitlements and they may run right home. There's got to be a legal way to do that right?

The problem is channel that they are not staying in AZ. That is simply a port of entry. A few months back they busted 20 of them in Southern Ohio. And of course told them to show up in court in 4 days.........
 
FOXNews.com - Arizona Immigration Enforcement Bill Stirs National Debate



so glad the small government conservatives of the republican party are working to preserve people's freedom

Lets see arresting people for breaking the law, that's not really a novel idea. It has been going on for a while now.

Why does that upset you?

Have you ever heard of the 4th Amendment? Have you ever heard of the requirement of probable cause to arrest someone?

This Arizona law, as I understand it, gives police the power to detain someone they merely suspect of being in the country illegally. So it a person "looks like" an illegal immigrant to a police officer, they have the right to stop them and search them for "proof of citizenship."

Suppose a Hispanic person who is an American citizen, is walking down a street in an Arizona town and some cop "thinks" he "looks like an illegal immigrant." He isn't. He's an American citizen. Never mind. Stop, detain and search.

Suppose the police find some form of contraband or a weapon in the guy's pocket. Do you think for a second they are going to say, "Oh, well, never mind. I see that you are a U.S. citizen, so you are free to go"? Of course not. The person will be arrested - as a consequence of what clearly would have been an illegal detention and search, but for this new law.

I have no problem at all with arresting people for breaking the law, provided the police have probable cause to believe the law has been broken. I have a HUGE problem with arresting people without any probable cause whatsoever.

When did illegals get the same rights as citizens of America? They are breaking the laws WE set in place for Americans to follow yet you liberals support illegals breaking the same laws we must live by then whine and cry when we arrest them.

Now the Drug Cartel are using illegals to grow and sell drugs to US children and you nasty sorry excuse for Americans want to give them rights the same as America citizens.

But why should we surprised, you are the same group of idiots that want to give terrorists rights.
 
When did illegals get the same rights as citizens of America?

Ever since we have had our federal Constitution. Keep in mind, the context of this discussion is illegal search and seizure, i.e., criminal law. Any person, citizen or not, legal or illegal alien, who is arrested and/or charged with a crime, has the full protection of the Bill of Rights and all other applicable portions of the Constitution.

I represent illegal aliens in a criminal court every day. Believe me, they are afforded exactly the same rights as citizens - right to counsel, speedy trial, etc. They are also just as immune from illegal search and seizure as are regular citizens.

They are breaking the laws WE set in place for Americans to follow yet you liberals support illegals breaking the same laws we must live by then whine and cry when we arrest them.

You don't mean that, so don't even say it. You know damn well that "us liberals" do NOT support illegals breaking the law. I don't have the slightest problem with arresting people who are breaking the law, prosecuting them and putting them in prison (or deporting them) if they are convicted - very much including illegal aliens.

But the police have to have some reasonable belief that a person is committing a crime before they can arrest him. They can't go around just arresting people for no reason at all and then check to see if a crime has been committed - you do see that, don't you?

THAT's what "us liberals" object to - and so should you, if you had one iota of intelligence.

Now the Drug Cartel are using illegals to grow and sell drugs to US children and you nasty sorry excuse for Americans want to give them rights the same as America citizens.

But why should we surprised, you are the same group of idiots that want to give terrorists rights.

This one I won't even dignify with a response.
 

Forum List

Back
Top