Out of Step with History.

Discussion in 'Israel and Palestine' started by pbel, Nov 14, 2012.

  1. pbel
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    pbel Gold Member

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    JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli diplomats have put foreign leaders on notice that their country will consider its historic peace accords with the Palestinians null and void if they ask the
    Israel: Palestinian UN bid could threaten accords - Yahoo! News

    United Nations for a state, according to a document obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press.

    The list of Foreign Ministry talking points also instructs diplomats to tell world leaders that Israel will retaliate against the move, without specifying details.

    The Palestinians, frustrated with a four-year impasse in peace efforts, say they will ask the U.N. General Assembly on Nov. 29 to give them upgraded observer status. A draft resolution floated by the Palestinians seeks international recognition of their state in the West Bank, east Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip, territories captured by Israel in the 1967 Mideast war.

    Israel and the U.S. strongly oppose the effort, saying all matters must be resolved through negotiations. On Wednesday, a U.S. envoy was set to meet the Palestinian president in Switzerland in a last-ditch bid to halt the bid.
     
  2. toomuchtime_
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    toomuchtime_ Gold Member

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    If the UNGA grants the PA non member state status recognizing the 1948 ceasefire line as one of the state's borders with Israel and with Jerusalem as its capital, Oslo is automatically dead because after that no PA leader will be able to enter negotiations with borders and Jerusalem on the table and no Israeli PM will be able to enter negotiations if the are not on the table. No negotiated peaceful two state solution will be possible, the Israeli right will grow stronger arguing that if the PA is taking unilateral action Israel is justified in taking unilateral action and push for more Israeli development in Area C since now it is no longer subject to negotiations.

    Lieberman is right. Abbas' purpose in pushing this initiative is to protect his own leadership position, not to advance the nationalist aspirations of the Palestinian Arabs.
     
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  3. ForeverYoung436
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    ForeverYoung436 Gold Member

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    Semantics.
     
  4. toomuchtime_
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    toomuchtime_ Gold Member

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    No, politics. While there is no possibility of a full negotiated peaceful two state solution anytime in the foreseeable future, even Lieberman has suggested the possibility of recognizing a Palestinian state with temporary borders. This would not be possible if the UNGA grants the PA non member state status with the 1948 ceasefire line as one of its borders and Jerusalem its capital. To a point, negotiations are preferable to war, and when you can no longer talk about the important issues, war becomes more likely.
     
  5. P F Tinmore
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    P F Tinmore Platinum Member

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    Israel has chosen war a long time ago.

    Jerusalem is off the table. Refugees are off the table, '67 borders are off the table. Settlements are off the table. The Jordan valley is off the table.

    What is left to negotiate? The size if the bantustans?
     
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  6. toomuchtime_
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    toomuchtime_ Gold Member

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    Israel has repeatedly said it is willing to start talks with not pre conditions, but the PA will not talk without pre conditions. No pre conditions means everything is on the table.

    As a practical matter, with whom would Israel negotiate? Neither Abbas nor Hamas can speak for all the Palestinian Arabs so no final status solution is possible until the Palestinian Arabs settle their civil war and form a unified government, but a provisional solution could be worked out in anticipation of that time and in fact might lead to a transitional phase in which, as Lieberman has suggested, Israel would recognize a Palestinian state with temporary borders. Of course, none of this is possible once the UNGA recognizes a Palestinian state with the 1948 ceasefire line as one of its borders with Israel and with Jerusalem as its capital.
     
  7. P F Tinmore
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    P F Tinmore Platinum Member

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    Israel is going to forgo all its preconditions?
     
  8. toomuchtime_
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    toomuchtime_ Gold Member

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    Netanyahu has repeatedly said he is willing to restart talks without any pre conditions. Abbas has demanded a end to all building in the West Bank and variously Obama's call for the 1948 ceasefire line to be the West Bank border or for Olment's final offer that Abbas refused to accept to be pre conditions for restarting the talks he had previously walked away from.

    But why should any of this interest you, a Hamas supporter, since Hamas opposes all talks with Israel?
     
  9. Roudy
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    Roudy Platinum Member

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    It did, during the Bill Clinton era with Arafat and Barak. Gave them almost everything they wanted, including most of those that you just listed as "off the table".

    Nah, the Palestinian idea of "peace" is the total destruction of the state of Israel. Good luck with that. LOL.
     
  10. docmauser1
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    docmauser1 Gold Member

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    About time, palistanians haven't been honoring the accords anyway.
     

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