Ousted as Gay, Aging Veterans Are Battling Again for Honorable Discharges

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Maybe when you learn to read, spell and count, you will have more success in life and won't feel compelled to come here and post for pity. Whatever the challenges are that limit you so severely, I truly hope you get help for them.

A Re-Concession?

How positively sweet.

Your Re-Concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

 

[jasonnfree]

The motto for the republican party should be
"NEVER TOO LATE TO START THE HATE"

 

[jasonnfree]

Here's a guy who certainly helped win WW2 and saved many from dying (even heterosexuals), and he was treated like a criminal afterword for being homosexual. He ended up committing suicide. This was decades ago. Maybe it's time to change our attitudes.

8 things you didn't know about Alan Turing

 

[The Rabbi]

It's disgusting what was done to these veterans.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/u...norable-discharges-they-were-denied.html?_r=1

COLUMBUS, Ohio — When the Army discharged Pvt. Donald Hallman in 1955 for being what it called a “Class II homosexual,” the 21-year-old was so scared of being an outcast that he burned all his military records, save for a single dog tag he hid away.

Mr. Hallman, a coal miner’s son who sang in a church choir in rural Alabama, says he never mentioned his military service again. He married a woman he had met at work, had children and wore a suit and tie to work each day.

“I hid it because it would have ruined my life,” Mr. Hallman said in an interview at his home here.

But this summer, Mr. Hallman, now 82, retrieved the dog tag from a keepsake box and began working through an application to the Department of Defense, asking that his decades-old discharge be upgraded from “undesirable” to “honorable.”

“I’ve gotten to a point in my life where no one can hurt me now,” he said. “I don’t care who knows, and I want to show I was an honorable person.”

He is one of a steady march of older veterans who were kicked out of the military decades ago for being gay, and who are now asking that their less-than-honorable discharges be upgraded.

Photo

Mr. Hallman put the circumstances of his discharge out of his mind for decades, and though he kept his dog tag, it was hidden away. CreditAndrew Spear for The New York Times
By some estimates, as many as 100,000 service members were discharged for being gay between World War II and the 2011 repeal of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. Many were given less-than-honorable discharges that became official scarlet letters — barring them from veterans’ benefits, costing them government jobs and other employment, and leaving many grappling with shame for decades.

Now, emboldened by the gay soldiers serving openly in the military and the same-sex couples finding broad acceptance in civilian life, they are increasingly seeking amends.

“After all these years, I want to tie up loose ends,” said Jim Estep, 80, a retired professor in Buffalo, who was given a less-than-honorable discharge in 1964. “It’s a way of getting the government — that faceless entity — in some way to acknowledge the authenticity of my life and my contribution to the country.”

A 2011 Obama administration policy generally grants an honorable discharge to any veteran who was kicked out for homosexuality unless there were “aggravating” factors, such as misconduct. Records from the Department of Defense show 80 percent of the nearly 500 requests submitted since 2011 received an upgrade.

But for many it is far from an easy fix. Tracking down decades-old records and getting an upgrade can take years. Many veterans hire lawyers, and some veterans groups have asked for the process to be streamlined.

“It’s really frustrating,” said Becca von Behren, a staff attorney for the San Francisco organization Swords to Plowshares, which provides legal assistance to veterans. “If a veteran needs health care from the V.A. and it takes so long to get an upgrade, the veteran can really spiral down.”

A bill in Congress, known as the Restore Honor to Service Members Act, would grant blanket upgrades to nearly all veteran discharged for being gay, but it has been stalled in Congress since 2013, and backers say it has little chance of moving forward this year.

In the 1970s and 1980s, upgrading service records was the battleground of gay activists. Today the requests are coming from everyday citizens.

“These stories are buried deep; it can be traumatic to dredge it up again,” said Lori Gum, an organizer at Stonewall Columbus, a gay community center in Ohio. She has helped six veterans start the upgrade process in the past year, including Mr. Hallman, but said three were too troubled by the past to finish the application.

Photo

Reissued copies of Mr. Hallman's discharge papers refer to him as a Class II homosexual, the reason the Army gave for his discharge from its ranks. CreditAndrew Spear for The New York Times
The United States military’s punishment of homosexuality dates back to the Revolutionary War. Historians say Gen. George Washington personally ordered that a young officer be “dismiss’d with Infamy” and literally drummed out of Valley Forge, pursued by a fife and drum troop.

Starting in World War II, the military treated homosexuality as a mental defect rather than a crime, but still purged gays with quick discharges.

Through the 1980s, military investigators, usually working in pairs, employed long interrogations and threats of public humiliation to coerce the service members to confess and name names.

“They put me in a hospital room for three or four days, no contact with anyone before questioning me,” Mr. Estep said in a phone interview.

He had graduated from the United States Naval Academy with a future senator, John McCain, and was flying fighters off a carrier in the Pacific in 1964 when the Navy discovered a letter he had written to a gay friend. He soon found himself seated in a small room facing a pair of agents who thumbed through folders of documents.

“They said they knew everything about me, which now I suspect was a lie,” Mr. Estep said. “They had rifled through my room and gotten my address book, and told me they would call everyone in there and their employers and tell them what was going on.”

Mr. Estep, who was slated to join the astronaut program, signed a confession that ended his career.

Mr. Estep applied for an honorable discharge twice in the 1960s and was denied.

Even as attitudes in the United States started to change in the 1980s, military practices lagged.

Photo

Nearly 30 years ago, Joshua Hoffman was given an other-than-honorable discharge from the Air Force over suspicions that he was gay. CreditAndrew Spear for The New York Times
Joshua Hoffman enlisted in the Air Force in 1984 after two years as a Mormon missionary. After an anonymous tip, two agents interrogated him in 1986. He had some sense he was gay at the time, but was still a virgin, he said in an interview at his house in Columbus.

“They kept saying, ‘Tell us who you’ve done it with,’ ” he recalled. “I kept telling them, ‘I haven’t done anything with anyone.’ ” Nevertheless, he was discharged a few weeks later.

Mr. Hoffman, now 52 and living with his partner and four adopted children, began to cry as he described being thrown out of the military.

“I was kicked out of my job, my church, my housing: I had nothing,” he said. “It took a long time to realize I deserved respect.”

A year ago, at the urging of his partner, he applied for an upgrade. He got a letter back from the Air Force in June saying his discharge had been reclassified as honorable. He proudly posted it on Facebook.

307,000 vets may have died awaiting VA care, report says - CNNPolitics.com

Over 300k...

Way to go, Obozo!!!!

Yeah, cuz the VA worked perfectly until Obama was elected.

Idiot.

Remembering the boos from the right when a gay soldier in Iraq was shown during the last R election debate.

RWs worship slime like child molester, poacher, draft dodger Ted Nugent.

Even though we see the hatred the right has for ALL our vets and ALL our military, even though see it every single day, it still hurts to see it again.

Repubs voted down everything Obama has tried to do for our military and their families and the RWs absolutely love it.

Its as though something is just left out of RWs. They just can't FEEL and have no loyalty to their own country.

Anyone who does not believe they hate our vets and their families, just look at who the RWs here will be voting for.

So if the VA was broken why didnt Obama fix it? Why did he have such trouble finding someone to take it over?
Its not like Obama became president last week, you know. He's had years to fix this.

Obama has tried to fix it, and done his best.
The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Veterans | PolitiFact
Obama Stands Up For Veterans By Vowing To Veto GOP Bill That Cut Benefits For 70,000 Vets
41 Republican Senators Voted Against a Landmark Veterans Bill in February, Today They Blame the VA

OK so once again Obama proves he is not up to the job.
Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[David_42]

It's disgusting what was done to these veterans.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/u...norable-discharges-they-were-denied.html?_r=1

307,000 vets may have died awaiting VA care, report says - CNNPolitics.com

Over 300k...

Way to go, Obozo!!!!

Yeah, cuz the VA worked perfectly until Obama was elected.

Idiot.

Remembering the boos from the right when a gay soldier in Iraq was shown during the last R election debate.

RWs worship slime like child molester, poacher, draft dodger Ted Nugent.

Even though we see the hatred the right has for ALL our vets and ALL our military, even though see it every single day, it still hurts to see it again.

Repubs voted down everything Obama has tried to do for our military and their families and the RWs absolutely love it.

Its as though something is just left out of RWs. They just can't FEEL and have no loyalty to their own country.

Anyone who does not believe they hate our vets and their families, just look at who the RWs here will be voting for.

So if the VA was broken why didnt Obama fix it? Why did he have such trouble finding someone to take it over?
Its not like Obama became president last week, you know. He's had years to fix this.

Obama has tried to fix it, and done his best.
The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Veterans | PolitiFact
Obama Stands Up For Veterans By Vowing To Veto GOP Bill That Cut Benefits For 70,000 Vets
41 Republican Senators Voted Against a Landmark Veterans Bill in February, Today They Blame the VA

OK so once again Obama proves he is not up to the job.
Thanks for the confirmation.

How the hell does that prove Obama is not up for the job? Did you check the politifact link? What republicans "do" for veterans?

 

[The Rabbi]

The motto for the republican party should be
"NEVER TOO LATE TO START THE HATE"

Whut?

 

[The Rabbi]

307,000 vets may have died awaiting VA care, report says - CNNPolitics.com

Over 300k...

Way to go, Obozo!!!!

Yeah, cuz the VA worked perfectly until Obama was elected.

Idiot.

Remembering the boos from the right when a gay soldier in Iraq was shown during the last R election debate.

RWs worship slime like child molester, poacher, draft dodger Ted Nugent.

Even though we see the hatred the right has for ALL our vets and ALL our military, even though see it every single day, it still hurts to see it again.

Repubs voted down everything Obama has tried to do for our military and their families and the RWs absolutely love it.

Its as though something is just left out of RWs. They just can't FEEL and have no loyalty to their own country.

Anyone who does not believe they hate our vets and their families, just look at who the RWs here will be voting for.

So if the VA was broken why didnt Obama fix it? Why did he have such trouble finding someone to take it over?
Its not like Obama became president last week, you know. He's had years to fix this.

Obama has tried to fix it, and done his best.
The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Veterans | PolitiFact
Obama Stands Up For Veterans By Vowing To Veto GOP Bill That Cut Benefits For 70,000 Vets
41 Republican Senators Voted Against a Landmark Veterans Bill in February, Today They Blame the VA

OK so once again Obama proves he is not up to the job.
Thanks for the confirmation.

How the hell does that prove Obama is not up for the job? Did you check the politifact link? What republicans "do" for veterans?

He tried to fix it. He failed. Ergo he is not up to the job.
Story of his administration.

 

[David_42]

Yeah, cuz the VA worked perfectly until Obama was elected.

Idiot.

Remembering the boos from the right when a gay soldier in Iraq was shown during the last R election debate.

RWs worship slime like child molester, poacher, draft dodger Ted Nugent.

Even though we see the hatred the right has for ALL our vets and ALL our military, even though see it every single day, it still hurts to see it again.

Repubs voted down everything Obama has tried to do for our military and their families and the RWs absolutely love it.

Its as though something is just left out of RWs. They just can't FEEL and have no loyalty to their own country.

Anyone who does not believe they hate our vets and their families, just look at who the RWs here will be voting for.

So if the VA was broken why didnt Obama fix it? Why did he have such trouble finding someone to take it over?
Its not like Obama became president last week, you know. He's had years to fix this.

Obama has tried to fix it, and done his best.
The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Veterans | PolitiFact
Obama Stands Up For Veterans By Vowing To Veto GOP Bill That Cut Benefits For 70,000 Vets
41 Republican Senators Voted Against a Landmark Veterans Bill in February, Today They Blame the VA

OK so once again Obama proves he is not up to the job.
Thanks for the confirmation.

How the hell does that prove Obama is not up for the job? Did you check the politifact link? What republicans "do" for veterans?

He tried to fix it. He failed. Ergo he is not up to the job.
Story of his administration.

Yeah, and bush obviously had it going well..
Increase the Veterans Administration budget to recruit and retain more mental health professionals
Expand Veterans Centers in rural areas
Fully fund the Veterans Administration
Assure that the Veterans Administration budget is prepared as 'must-pass' legislation
Expand the Veterans Administration's number of "centers of excellence" in specialty care
Expand housing vouchers program for homeless veterans
Launch a supportive services-housing program for veterans to prevent homelessness
Create a 'Green Vet Initiative' to promote environmental jobs for veterans

 

[The Rabbi]

So if the VA was broken why didnt Obama fix it? Why did he have such trouble finding someone to take it over?
Its not like Obama became president last week, you know. He's had years to fix this.

Obama has tried to fix it, and done his best.
The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Veterans | PolitiFact
Obama Stands Up For Veterans By Vowing To Veto GOP Bill That Cut Benefits For 70,000 Vets
41 Republican Senators Voted Against a Landmark Veterans Bill in February, Today They Blame the VA

OK so once again Obama proves he is not up to the job.
Thanks for the confirmation.

How the hell does that prove Obama is not up for the job? Did you check the politifact link? What republicans "do" for veterans?

He tried to fix it. He failed. Ergo he is not up to the job.
Story of his administration.

Yeah, and bush obviously had it going well..
Increase the Veterans Administration budget to recruit and retain more mental health professionals
Expand Veterans Centers in rural areas
Fully fund the Veterans Administration
Assure that the Veterans Administration budget is prepared as 'must-pass' legislation
Expand the Veterans Administration's number of "centers of excellence" in specialty care
Expand housing vouchers program for homeless veterans
Launch a supportive services-housing program for veterans to prevent homelessness
Create a 'Green Vet Initiative' to promote environmental jobs for veterans

We're not discussing Bush, asshole. We're discussing Obama. He knew he had a problem and failed to fix it. He is a failure.

 

[David_42]

Obama has tried to fix it, and done his best.
The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Veterans | PolitiFact
Obama Stands Up For Veterans By Vowing To Veto GOP Bill That Cut Benefits For 70,000 Vets
41 Republican Senators Voted Against a Landmark Veterans Bill in February, Today They Blame the VA

OK so once again Obama proves he is not up to the job.
Thanks for the confirmation.

How the hell does that prove Obama is not up for the job? Did you check the politifact link? What republicans "do" for veterans?

He tried to fix it. He failed. Ergo he is not up to the job.
Story of his administration.

Yeah, and bush obviously had it going well..
Increase the Veterans Administration budget to recruit and retain more mental health professionals
Expand Veterans Centers in rural areas
Fully fund the Veterans Administration
Assure that the Veterans Administration budget is prepared as 'must-pass' legislation
Expand the Veterans Administration's number of "centers of excellence" in specialty care
Expand housing vouchers program for homeless veterans
Launch a supportive services-housing program for veterans to prevent homelessness
Create a 'Green Vet Initiative' to promote environmental jobs for veterans

We're not discussing Bush, asshole. We're discussing Obama. He knew he had a problem and failed to fix it. He is a failure.

I know we're discussing Obama, which is why I've posted many things Obama has done for veterans. The VA has historically had problems, republicans have done everything they can to harm veterans given their voting record, Obama hasn't.

 

[LeftofLeft]

It's disgusting what was done to these veterans.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/u...norable-discharges-they-were-denied.html?_r=1

COLUMBUS, Ohio — When the Army discharged Pvt. Donald Hallman in 1955 for being what it called a “Class II homosexual,” the 21-year-old was so scared of being an outcast that he burned all his military records, save for a single dog tag he hid away.

Mr. Hallman, a coal miner’s son who sang in a church choir in rural Alabama, says he never mentioned his military service again. He married a woman he had met at work, had children and wore a suit and tie to work each day.

“I hid it because it would have ruined my life,” Mr. Hallman said in an interview at his home here.

But this summer, Mr. Hallman, now 82, retrieved the dog tag from a keepsake box and began working through an application to the Department of Defense, asking that his decades-old discharge be upgraded from “undesirable” to “honorable.”

“I’ve gotten to a point in my life where no one can hurt me now,” he said. “I don’t care who knows, and I want to show I was an honorable person.”

He is one of a steady march of older veterans who were kicked out of the military decades ago for being gay, and who are now asking that their less-than-honorable discharges be upgraded.

Photo

Mr. Hallman put the circumstances of his discharge out of his mind for decades, and though he kept his dog tag, it was hidden away. CreditAndrew Spear for The New York Times
By some estimates, as many as 100,000 service members were discharged for being gay between World War II and the 2011 repeal of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. Many were given less-than-honorable discharges that became official scarlet letters — barring them from veterans’ benefits, costing them government jobs and other employment, and leaving many grappling with shame for decades.

Now, emboldened by the gay soldiers serving openly in the military and the same-sex couples finding broad acceptance in civilian life, they are increasingly seeking amends.

“After all these years, I want to tie up loose ends,” said Jim Estep, 80, a retired professor in Buffalo, who was given a less-than-honorable discharge in 1964. “It’s a way of getting the government — that faceless entity — in some way to acknowledge the authenticity of my life and my contribution to the country.”

A 2011 Obama administration policy generally grants an honorable discharge to any veteran who was kicked out for homosexuality unless there were “aggravating” factors, such as misconduct. Records from the Department of Defense show 80 percent of the nearly 500 requests submitted since 2011 received an upgrade.

But for many it is far from an easy fix. Tracking down decades-old records and getting an upgrade can take years. Many veterans hire lawyers, and some veterans groups have asked for the process to be streamlined.

“It’s really frustrating,” said Becca von Behren, a staff attorney for the San Francisco organization Swords to Plowshares, which provides legal assistance to veterans. “If a veteran needs health care from the V.A. and it takes so long to get an upgrade, the veteran can really spiral down.”

A bill in Congress, known as the Restore Honor to Service Members Act, would grant blanket upgrades to nearly all veteran discharged for being gay, but it has been stalled in Congress since 2013, and backers say it has little chance of moving forward this year.

In the 1970s and 1980s, upgrading service records was the battleground of gay activists. Today the requests are coming from everyday citizens.

“These stories are buried deep; it can be traumatic to dredge it up again,” said Lori Gum, an organizer at Stonewall Columbus, a gay community center in Ohio. She has helped six veterans start the upgrade process in the past year, including Mr. Hallman, but said three were too troubled by the past to finish the application.

Photo

Reissued copies of Mr. Hallman's discharge papers refer to him as a Class II homosexual, the reason the Army gave for his discharge from its ranks. CreditAndrew Spear for The New York Times
The United States military’s punishment of homosexuality dates back to the Revolutionary War. Historians say Gen. George Washington personally ordered that a young officer be “dismiss’d with Infamy” and literally drummed out of Valley Forge, pursued by a fife and drum troop.

Starting in World War II, the military treated homosexuality as a mental defect rather than a crime, but still purged gays with quick discharges.

Through the 1980s, military investigators, usually working in pairs, employed long interrogations and threats of public humiliation to coerce the service members to confess and name names.

“They put me in a hospital room for three or four days, no contact with anyone before questioning me,” Mr. Estep said in a phone interview.

He had graduated from the United States Naval Academy with a future senator, John McCain, and was flying fighters off a carrier in the Pacific in 1964 when the Navy discovered a letter he had written to a gay friend. He soon found himself seated in a small room facing a pair of agents who thumbed through folders of documents.

“They said they knew everything about me, which now I suspect was a lie,” Mr. Estep said. “They had rifled through my room and gotten my address book, and told me they would call everyone in there and their employers and tell them what was going on.”

Mr. Estep, who was slated to join the astronaut program, signed a confession that ended his career.

Mr. Estep applied for an honorable discharge twice in the 1960s and was denied.

Even as attitudes in the United States started to change in the 1980s, military practices lagged.

Photo

Nearly 30 years ago, Joshua Hoffman was given an other-than-honorable discharge from the Air Force over suspicions that he was gay. CreditAndrew Spear for The New York Times
Joshua Hoffman enlisted in the Air Force in 1984 after two years as a Mormon missionary. After an anonymous tip, two agents interrogated him in 1986. He had some sense he was gay at the time, but was still a virgin, he said in an interview at his house in Columbus.

“They kept saying, ‘Tell us who you’ve done it with,’ ” he recalled. “I kept telling them, ‘I haven’t done anything with anyone.’ ” Nevertheless, he was discharged a few weeks later.

Mr. Hoffman, now 52 and living with his partner and four adopted children, began to cry as he described being thrown out of the military.

“I was kicked out of my job, my church, my housing: I had nothing,” he said. “It took a long time to realize I deserved respect.”

A year ago, at the urging of his partner, he applied for an upgrade. He got a letter back from the Air Force in June saying his discharge had been reclassified as honorable. He proudly posted it on Facebook.

ROFLMNAO!

Now how pitiful is THAT?

The bigoted and disgusting right wing posters never stop.

You still have nothing to say for 300K veterans who also were honorably discharged. Hoffman is in the same boat.....it's all about equality.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

A violation of military code of conduct is STILL a violation of the code of military conduct. The military judges by the rules of conduct at the time it happened.

The military code about gays was a very convenient moving target. When we were needed, it was ok....after we were needed, many were kicked to the curb.

Well if you are queer you do NOT belong in the military. Mental hospital but NOT the military.

So says one of nuttiest liars on this board.

214 IQ stalker wannabee.

Pathetic.

It's disgusting what was done to these veterans.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/u...norable-discharges-they-were-denied.html?_r=1

COLUMBUS, Ohio — When the Army discharged Pvt. Donald Hallman in 1955 for being what it called a “Class II homosexual,” the 21-year-old was so scared of being an outcast that he burned all his military records, save for a single dog tag he hid away.

Mr. Hallman, a coal miner’s son who sang in a church choir in rural Alabama, says he never mentioned his military service again. He married a woman he had met at work, had children and wore a suit and tie to work each day.

“I hid it because it would have ruined my life,” Mr. Hallman said in an interview at his home here.

But this summer, Mr. Hallman, now 82, retrieved the dog tag from a keepsake box and began working through an application to the Department of Defense, asking that his decades-old discharge be upgraded from “undesirable” to “honorable.”

“I’ve gotten to a point in my life where no one can hurt me now,” he said. “I don’t care who knows, and I want to show I was an honorable person.”

He is one of a steady march of older veterans who were kicked out of the military decades ago for being gay, and who are now asking that their less-than-honorable discharges be upgraded.

Photo

Mr. Hallman put the circumstances of his discharge out of his mind for decades, and though he kept his dog tag, it was hidden away. CreditAndrew Spear for The New York Times
By some estimates, as many as 100,000 service members were discharged for being gay between World War II and the 2011 repeal of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. Many were given less-than-honorable discharges that became official scarlet letters — barring them from veterans’ benefits, costing them government jobs and other employment, and leaving many grappling with shame for decades.

Now, emboldened by the gay soldiers serving openly in the military and the same-sex couples finding broad acceptance in civilian life, they are increasingly seeking amends.

“After all these years, I want to tie up loose ends,” said Jim Estep, 80, a retired professor in Buffalo, who was given a less-than-honorable discharge in 1964. “It’s a way of getting the government — that faceless entity — in some way to acknowledge the authenticity of my life and my contribution to the country.”

A 2011 Obama administration policy generally grants an honorable discharge to any veteran who was kicked out for homosexuality unless there were “aggravating” factors, such as misconduct. Records from the Department of Defense show 80 percent of the nearly 500 requests submitted since 2011 received an upgrade.

But for many it is far from an easy fix. Tracking down decades-old records and getting an upgrade can take years. Many veterans hire lawyers, and some veterans groups have asked for the process to be streamlined.

“It’s really frustrating,” said Becca von Behren, a staff attorney for the San Francisco organization Swords to Plowshares, which provides legal assistance to veterans. “If a veteran needs health care from the V.A. and it takes so long to get an upgrade, the veteran can really spiral down.”

A bill in Congress, known as the Restore Honor to Service Members Act, would grant blanket upgrades to nearly all veteran discharged for being gay, but it has been stalled in Congress since 2013, and backers say it has little chance of moving forward this year.

In the 1970s and 1980s, upgrading service records was the battleground of gay activists. Today the requests are coming from everyday citizens.

“These stories are buried deep; it can be traumatic to dredge it up again,” said Lori Gum, an organizer at Stonewall Columbus, a gay community center in Ohio. She has helped six veterans start the upgrade process in the past year, including Mr. Hallman, but said three were too troubled by the past to finish the application.

Photo

Reissued copies of Mr. Hallman's discharge papers refer to him as a Class II homosexual, the reason the Army gave for his discharge from its ranks. CreditAndrew Spear for The New York Times
The United States military’s punishment of homosexuality dates back to the Revolutionary War. Historians say Gen. George Washington personally ordered that a young officer be “dismiss’d with Infamy” and literally drummed out of Valley Forge, pursued by a fife and drum troop.

Starting in World War II, the military treated homosexuality as a mental defect rather than a crime, but still purged gays with quick discharges.

Through the 1980s, military investigators, usually working in pairs, employed long interrogations and threats of public humiliation to coerce the service members to confess and name names.

“They put me in a hospital room for three or four days, no contact with anyone before questioning me,” Mr. Estep said in a phone interview.

He had graduated from the United States Naval Academy with a future senator, John McCain, and was flying fighters off a carrier in the Pacific in 1964 when the Navy discovered a letter he had written to a gay friend. He soon found himself seated in a small room facing a pair of agents who thumbed through folders of documents.

“They said they knew everything about me, which now I suspect was a lie,” Mr. Estep said. “They had rifled through my room and gotten my address book, and told me they would call everyone in there and their employers and tell them what was going on.”

Mr. Estep, who was slated to join the astronaut program, signed a confession that ended his career.

Mr. Estep applied for an honorable discharge twice in the 1960s and was denied.

Even as attitudes in the United States started to change in the 1980s, military practices lagged.

Photo

Nearly 30 years ago, Joshua Hoffman was given an other-than-honorable discharge from the Air Force over suspicions that he was gay. CreditAndrew Spear for The New York Times
Joshua Hoffman enlisted in the Air Force in 1984 after two years as a Mormon missionary. After an anonymous tip, two agents interrogated him in 1986. He had some sense he was gay at the time, but was still a virgin, he said in an interview at his house in Columbus.

“They kept saying, ‘Tell us who you’ve done it with,’ ” he recalled. “I kept telling them, ‘I haven’t done anything with anyone.’ ” Nevertheless, he was discharged a few weeks later.

Mr. Hoffman, now 52 and living with his partner and four adopted children, began to cry as he described being thrown out of the military.

“I was kicked out of my job, my church, my housing: I had nothing,” he said. “It took a long time to realize I deserved respect.”

A year ago, at the urging of his partner, he applied for an upgrade. He got a letter back from the Air Force in June saying his discharge had been reclassified as honorable. He proudly posted it on Facebook.

307,000 vets may have died awaiting VA care, report says - CNNPolitics.com

Over 300k...

Way to go, Obozo!!!!

Yeah, cuz the VA worked perfectly until Obama was elected.

Idiot.

Remembering the boos from the right when a gay soldier in Iraq was shown during the last R election debate.

RWs worship slime like child molester, poacher, draft dodger Ted Nugent.

Even though we see the hatred the right has for ALL our vets and ALL our military, even though see it every single day, it still hurts to see it again.

Repubs voted down everything Obama has tried to do for our military and their families and the RWs absolutely love it.

Its as though something is just left out of RWs. They just can't FEEL and have no loyalty to their own country.

Anyone who does not believe they hate our vets and their families, just look at who the RWs here will be voting for.

So if the VA was broken why didnt Obama fix it? Why did he have such trouble finding someone to take it over?
Its not like Obama became president last week, you know. He's had years to fix this.

Yeah, cuz the VA worked perfectly until Obama was elected.

Idiot.

Remembering the boos from the right when a gay soldier in Iraq was shown during the last R election debate.

RWs worship slime like child molester, poacher, draft dodger Ted Nugent.

Even though we see the hatred the right has for ALL our vets and ALL our military, even though see it every single day, it still hurts to see it again.

Repubs voted down everything Obama has tried to do for our military and their families and the RWs absolutely love it.

Its as though something is just left out of RWs. They just can't FEEL and have no loyalty to their own country.

Anyone who does not believe they hate our vets and their families, just look at who the RWs here will be voting for.

So if the VA was broken why didnt Obama fix it? Why did he have such trouble finding someone to take it over?
Its not like Obama became president last week, you know. He's had years to fix this.

Obama has tried to fix it, and done his best.
The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Veterans | PolitiFact
Obama Stands Up For Veterans By Vowing To Veto GOP Bill That Cut Benefits For 70,000 Vets
41 Republican Senators Voted Against a Landmark Veterans Bill in February, Today They Blame the VA

OK so once again Obama proves he is not up to the job.
Thanks for the confirmation.

How the hell does that prove Obama is not up for the job? Did you check the politifact link? What republicans "do" for veterans?

He tried to fix it. He failed. Ergo he is not up to the job.
Story of his administration.

It's disgusting what was done to these veterans.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/u...norable-discharges-they-were-denied.html?_r=1

COLUMBUS, Ohio — When the Army discharged Pvt. Donald Hallman in 1955 for being what it called a “Class II homosexual,” the 21-year-old was so scared of being an outcast that he burned all his military records, save for a single dog tag he hid away.

Mr. Hallman, a coal miner’s son who sang in a church choir in rural Alabama, says he never mentioned his military service again. He married a woman he had met at work, had children and wore a suit and tie to work each day.

“I hid it because it would have ruined my life,” Mr. Hallman said in an interview at his home here.

But this summer, Mr. Hallman, now 82, retrieved the dog tag from a keepsake box and began working through an application to the Department of Defense, asking that his decades-old discharge be upgraded from “undesirable” to “honorable.”

“I’ve gotten to a point in my life where no one can hurt me now,” he said. “I don’t care who knows, and I want to show I was an honorable person.”

He is one of a steady march of older veterans who were kicked out of the military decades ago for being gay, and who are now asking that their less-than-honorable discharges be upgraded.

Photo

Mr. Hallman put the circumstances of his discharge out of his mind for decades, and though he kept his dog tag, it was hidden away. CreditAndrew Spear for The New York Times
By some estimates, as many as 100,000 service members were discharged for being gay between World War II and the 2011 repeal of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. Many were given less-than-honorable discharges that became official scarlet letters — barring them from veterans’ benefits, costing them government jobs and other employment, and leaving many grappling with shame for decades.

Now, emboldened by the gay soldiers serving openly in the military and the same-sex couples finding broad acceptance in civilian life, they are increasingly seeking amends.

“After all these years, I want to tie up loose ends,” said Jim Estep, 80, a retired professor in Buffalo, who was given a less-than-honorable discharge in 1964. “It’s a way of getting the government — that faceless entity — in some way to acknowledge the authenticity of my life and my contribution to the country.”

A 2011 Obama administration policy generally grants an honorable discharge to any veteran who was kicked out for homosexuality unless there were “aggravating” factors, such as misconduct. Records from the Department of Defense show 80 percent of the nearly 500 requests submitted since 2011 received an upgrade.

But for many it is far from an easy fix. Tracking down decades-old records and getting an upgrade can take years. Many veterans hire lawyers, and some veterans groups have asked for the process to be streamlined.

“It’s really frustrating,” said Becca von Behren, a staff attorney for the San Francisco organization Swords to Plowshares, which provides legal assistance to veterans. “If a veteran needs health care from the V.A. and it takes so long to get an upgrade, the veteran can really spiral down.”

A bill in Congress, known as the Restore Honor to Service Members Act, would grant blanket upgrades to nearly all veteran discharged for being gay, but it has been stalled in Congress since 2013, and backers say it has little chance of moving forward this year.

In the 1970s and 1980s, upgrading service records was the battleground of gay activists. Today the requests are coming from everyday citizens.

“These stories are buried deep; it can be traumatic to dredge it up again,” said Lori Gum, an organizer at Stonewall Columbus, a gay community center in Ohio. She has helped six veterans start the upgrade process in the past year, including Mr. Hallman, but said three were too troubled by the past to finish the application.

Photo

Reissued copies of Mr. Hallman's discharge papers refer to him as a Class II homosexual, the reason the Army gave for his discharge from its ranks. CreditAndrew Spear for The New York Times
The United States military’s punishment of homosexuality dates back to the Revolutionary War. Historians say Gen. George Washington personally ordered that a young officer be “dismiss’d with Infamy” and literally drummed out of Valley Forge, pursued by a fife and drum troop.

Starting in World War II, the military treated homosexuality as a mental defect rather than a crime, but still purged gays with quick discharges.

Through the 1980s, military investigators, usually working in pairs, employed long interrogations and threats of public humiliation to coerce the service members to confess and name names.

“They put me in a hospital room for three or four days, no contact with anyone before questioning me,” Mr. Estep said in a phone interview.

He had graduated from the United States Naval Academy with a future senator, John McCain, and was flying fighters off a carrier in the Pacific in 1964 when the Navy discovered a letter he had written to a gay friend. He soon found himself seated in a small room facing a pair of agents who thumbed through folders of documents.

“They said they knew everything about me, which now I suspect was a lie,” Mr. Estep said. “They had rifled through my room and gotten my address book, and told me they would call everyone in there and their employers and tell them what was going on.”

Mr. Estep, who was slated to join the astronaut program, signed a confession that ended his career.

Mr. Estep applied for an honorable discharge twice in the 1960s and was denied.

Even as attitudes in the United States started to change in the 1980s, military practices lagged.

Photo

Nearly 30 years ago, Joshua Hoffman was given an other-than-honorable discharge from the Air Force over suspicions that he was gay. CreditAndrew Spear for The New York Times
Joshua Hoffman enlisted in the Air Force in 1984 after two years as a Mormon missionary. After an anonymous tip, two agents interrogated him in 1986. He had some sense he was gay at the time, but was still a virgin, he said in an interview at his house in Columbus.

“They kept saying, ‘Tell us who you’ve done it with,’ ” he recalled. “I kept telling them, ‘I haven’t done anything with anyone.’ ” Nevertheless, he was discharged a few weeks later.

Mr. Hoffman, now 52 and living with his partner and four adopted children, began to cry as he described being thrown out of the military.

“I was kicked out of my job, my church, my housing: I had nothing,” he said. “It took a long time to realize I deserved respect.”

A year ago, at the urging of his partner, he applied for an upgrade. He got a letter back from the Air Force in June saying his discharge had been reclassified as honorable. He proudly posted it on Facebook.

307,000 vets may have died awaiting VA care, report says - CNNPolitics.com

Over 300k...

Way to go, Obozo!!!!

Yeah, cuz the VA worked perfectly until Obama was elected.

Idiot.

Remembering the boos from the right when a gay soldier in Iraq was shown during the last R election debate.

RWs worship slime like child molester, poacher, draft dodger Ted Nugent.

Even though we see the hatred the right has for ALL our vets and ALL our military, even though see it every single day, it still hurts to see it again.

Repubs voted down everything Obama has tried to do for our military and their families and the RWs absolutely love it.

Its as though something is just left out of RWs. They just can't FEEL and have no loyalty to their own country.

Anyone who does not believe they hate our vets and their families, just look at who the RWs here will be voting for.

So if the VA was broken why didnt Obama fix it? Why did he have such trouble finding someone to take it over?
Its not like Obama became president last week, you know. He's had years to fix this.

Well, in fairness... obama helped break it... So it wouldn't be fair to make him fix it too.

Jeeezus.

Everything has to be spoon fed to the RW traitors.

Republicans vote against vets | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Why don't you check out how your own Repub congressmen voted?

Hmmmm ?

Hint: just like you jerks, they hate our vets and their families and always vote against them.

Always.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

OK so once again Obama proves he is not up to the job.
Thanks for the confirmation.

How the hell does that prove Obama is not up for the job? Did you check the politifact link? What republicans "do" for veterans?

He tried to fix it. He failed. Ergo he is not up to the job.
Story of his administration.

Yeah, and bush obviously had it going well..
Increase the Veterans Administration budget to recruit and retain more mental health professionals
Expand Veterans Centers in rural areas
Fully fund the Veterans Administration
Assure that the Veterans Administration budget is prepared as 'must-pass' legislation
Expand the Veterans Administration's number of "centers of excellence" in specialty care
Expand housing vouchers program for homeless veterans
Launch a supportive services-housing program for veterans to prevent homelessness
Create a 'Green Vet Initiative' to promote environmental jobs for veterans

We're not discussing Bush, asshole. We're discussing Obama. He knew he had a problem and failed to fix it. He is a failure.

I know we're discussing Obama, which is why I've posted many things Obama has done for veterans. The VA has historically had problems, republicans have done everything they can to harm veterans given their voting record, Obama hasn't.

And there are more links in the thread I posted.

Republicans vote against vets | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

The screwing of vets was old news when I first came across it in the late 60s but back then, the Repub and Dem parties were willing to work for the good of the country. Now, the Rs only want to take money away from the working class, send business to other countries and they hate our troops and their families just as much as these RWs do.

But of course, according the RW traitors, its all Obama's fault.

The RW traitors will vote against the vets in the next election too. And, they'll keep on blaming Obama for what their own party has done and will continue to do.

The right wants more wars and more dead and wounded Americans but they won't lift a finger to help them.

 

[jasonnfree]

The motto for the republican party should be
"NEVER TOO LATE TO START THE HATE"

Whut?

You shou

307,000 vets may have died awaiting VA care, report says - CNNPolitics.com

Over 300k...

Way to go, Obozo!!!!

Yeah, cuz the VA worked perfectly until Obama was elected.

Idiot.

Remembering the boos from the right when a gay soldier in Iraq was shown during the last R election debate.

RWs worship slime like child molester, poacher, draft dodger Ted Nugent.

Even though we see the hatred the right has for ALL our vets and ALL our military, even though see it every single day, it still hurts to see it again.

Repubs voted down everything Obama has tried to do for our military and their families and the RWs absolutely love it.

Its as though something is just left out of RWs. They just can't FEEL and have no loyalty to their own country.

Anyone who does not believe they hate our vets and their families, just look at who the RWs here will be voting for.

So if the VA was broken why didnt Obama fix it? Why did he have such trouble finding someone to take it over?
Its not like Obama became president last week, you know. He's had years to fix this.

Obama has tried to fix it, and done his best.
The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Veterans | PolitiFact
Obama Stands Up For Veterans By Vowing To Veto GOP Bill That Cut Benefits For 70,000 Vets
41 Republican Senators Voted Against a Landmark Veterans Bill in February, Today They Blame the VA

OK so once again Obama proves he is not up to the job.
Thanks for the confirmation.

How the hell does that prove Obama is not up for the job? Did you check the politifact link? What republicans "do" for veterans?

Their record speaks for itself. The republicans do nothing for anybody but the very wealthy and corporations. I can't think of one program they've launched to help ordinary people, including veterans.

 

[SwimExpert]

I have always had the highest respect for the military, but now I see them as potential enemes.

Good luck with that.

 

[OKTexas]

It's disgusting what was done to these veterans.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/u...norable-discharges-they-were-denied.html?_r=1

COLUMBUS, Ohio — When the Army discharged Pvt. Donald Hallman in 1955 for being what it called a “Class II homosexual,” the 21-year-old was so scared of being an outcast that he burned all his military records, save for a single dog tag he hid away.

Mr. Hallman, a coal miner’s son who sang in a church choir in rural Alabama, says he never mentioned his military service again. He married a woman he had met at work, had children and wore a suit and tie to work each day.

“I hid it because it would have ruined my life,” Mr. Hallman said in an interview at his home here.

But this summer, Mr. Hallman, now 82, retrieved the dog tag from a keepsake box and began working through an application to the Department of Defense, asking that his decades-old discharge be upgraded from “undesirable” to “honorable.”

“I’ve gotten to a point in my life where no one can hurt me now,” he said. “I don’t care who knows, and I want to show I was an honorable person.”

He is one of a steady march of older veterans who were kicked out of the military decades ago for being gay, and who are now asking that their less-than-honorable discharges be upgraded.

Photo

Mr. Hallman put the circumstances of his discharge out of his mind for decades, and though he kept his dog tag, it was hidden away. CreditAndrew Spear for The New York Times
By some estimates, as many as 100,000 service members were discharged for being gay between World War II and the 2011 repeal of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. Many were given less-than-honorable discharges that became official scarlet letters — barring them from veterans’ benefits, costing them government jobs and other employment, and leaving many grappling with shame for decades.

Now, emboldened by the gay soldiers serving openly in the military and the same-sex couples finding broad acceptance in civilian life, they are increasingly seeking amends.

“After all these years, I want to tie up loose ends,” said Jim Estep, 80, a retired professor in Buffalo, who was given a less-than-honorable discharge in 1964. “It’s a way of getting the government — that faceless entity — in some way to acknowledge the authenticity of my life and my contribution to the country.”

A 2011 Obama administration policy generally grants an honorable discharge to any veteran who was kicked out for homosexuality unless there were “aggravating” factors, such as misconduct. Records from the Department of Defense show 80 percent of the nearly 500 requests submitted since 2011 received an upgrade.

But for many it is far from an easy fix. Tracking down decades-old records and getting an upgrade can take years. Many veterans hire lawyers, and some veterans groups have asked for the process to be streamlined.

“It’s really frustrating,” said Becca von Behren, a staff attorney for the San Francisco organization Swords to Plowshares, which provides legal assistance to veterans. “If a veteran needs health care from the V.A. and it takes so long to get an upgrade, the veteran can really spiral down.”

A bill in Congress, known as the Restore Honor to Service Members Act, would grant blanket upgrades to nearly all veteran discharged for being gay, but it has been stalled in Congress since 2013, and backers say it has little chance of moving forward this year.

In the 1970s and 1980s, upgrading service records was the battleground of gay activists. Today the requests are coming from everyday citizens.

“These stories are buried deep; it can be traumatic to dredge it up again,” said Lori Gum, an organizer at Stonewall Columbus, a gay community center in Ohio. She has helped six veterans start the upgrade process in the past year, including Mr. Hallman, but said three were too troubled by the past to finish the application.

It's pretty damn simple, unless they can prove there was an error, they have no case for an upgraded discharge. They received due process at the time.

What's going the be the next cause, demanding all verdicts of pot possession be vacated in CO, WA, AK and DC? You fucking imbeciles need to get a freaking life.

 

[David_42]

It's disgusting what was done to these veterans.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/u...norable-discharges-they-were-denied.html?_r=1

COLUMBUS, Ohio — When the Army discharged Pvt. Donald Hallman in 1955 for being what it called a “Class II homosexual,” the 21-year-old was so scared of being an outcast that he burned all his military records, save for a single dog tag he hid away.

Mr. Hallman, a coal miner’s son who sang in a church choir in rural Alabama, says he never mentioned his military service again. He married a woman he had met at work, had children and wore a suit and tie to work each day.

“I hid it because it would have ruined my life,” Mr. Hallman said in an interview at his home here.

But this summer, Mr. Hallman, now 82, retrieved the dog tag from a keepsake box and began working through an application to the Department of Defense, asking that his decades-old discharge be upgraded from “undesirable” to “honorable.”

“I’ve gotten to a point in my life where no one can hurt me now,” he said. “I don’t care who knows, and I want to show I was an honorable person.”

He is one of a steady march of older veterans who were kicked out of the military decades ago for being gay, and who are now asking that their less-than-honorable discharges be upgraded.

Photo

Mr. Hallman put the circumstances of his discharge out of his mind for decades, and though he kept his dog tag, it was hidden away. CreditAndrew Spear for The New York Times
By some estimates, as many as 100,000 service members were discharged for being gay between World War II and the 2011 repeal of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. Many were given less-than-honorable discharges that became official scarlet letters — barring them from veterans’ benefits, costing them government jobs and other employment, and leaving many grappling with shame for decades.

Now, emboldened by the gay soldiers serving openly in the military and the same-sex couples finding broad acceptance in civilian life, they are increasingly seeking amends.

“After all these years, I want to tie up loose ends,” said Jim Estep, 80, a retired professor in Buffalo, who was given a less-than-honorable discharge in 1964. “It’s a way of getting the government — that faceless entity — in some way to acknowledge the authenticity of my life and my contribution to the country.”

A 2011 Obama administration policy generally grants an honorable discharge to any veteran who was kicked out for homosexuality unless there were “aggravating” factors, such as misconduct. Records from the Department of Defense show 80 percent of the nearly 500 requests submitted since 2011 received an upgrade.

But for many it is far from an easy fix. Tracking down decades-old records and getting an upgrade can take years. Many veterans hire lawyers, and some veterans groups have asked for the process to be streamlined.

“It’s really frustrating,” said Becca von Behren, a staff attorney for the San Francisco organization Swords to Plowshares, which provides legal assistance to veterans. “If a veteran needs health care from the V.A. and it takes so long to get an upgrade, the veteran can really spiral down.”

A bill in Congress, known as the Restore Honor to Service Members Act, would grant blanket upgrades to nearly all veteran discharged for being gay, but it has been stalled in Congress since 2013, and backers say it has little chance of moving forward this year.

In the 1970s and 1980s, upgrading service records was the battleground of gay activists. Today the requests are coming from everyday citizens.

“These stories are buried deep; it can be traumatic to dredge it up again,” said Lori Gum, an organizer at Stonewall Columbus, a gay community center in Ohio. She has helped six veterans start the upgrade process in the past year, including Mr. Hallman, but said three were too troubled by the past to finish the application.

It's pretty damn simple, unless they can prove there was an error, they have no case for an upgraded discharge. They received due process at the time.

What's going the be the next cause, demanding all verdicts of pot possession be vacated in CO, WA, AK and DC? You fucking imbeciles need to get a freaking life.

Sad.

 

[jwoodie]

It's disgusting what was done to these veterans.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/u...norable-discharges-they-were-denied.html?_r=1

COLUMBUS, Ohio — When the Army discharged Pvt. Donald Hallman in 1955 for being what it called a “Class II homosexual,” the 21-year-old was so scared of being an outcast that he burned all his military records, save for a single dog tag he hid away.

Mr. Hallman, a coal miner’s son who sang in a church choir in rural Alabama, says he never mentioned his military service again. He married a woman he had met at work, had children and wore a suit and tie to work each day.

“I hid it because it would have ruined my life,” Mr. Hallman said in an interview at his home here.

But this summer, Mr. Hallman, now 82, retrieved the dog tag from a keepsake box and began working through an application to the Department of Defense, asking that his decades-old discharge be upgraded from “undesirable” to “honorable.”

“I’ve gotten to a point in my life where no one can hurt me now,” he said. “I don’t care who knows, and I want to show I was an honorable person.”

He is one of a steady march of older veterans who were kicked out of the military decades ago for being gay, and who are now asking that their less-than-honorable discharges be upgraded.

Photo

Mr. Hallman put the circumstances of his discharge out of his mind for decades, and though he kept his dog tag, it was hidden away. CreditAndrew Spear for The New York Times
By some estimates, as many as 100,000 service members were discharged for being gay between World War II and the 2011 repeal of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. Many were given less-than-honorable discharges that became official scarlet letters — barring them from veterans’ benefits, costing them government jobs and other employment, and leaving many grappling with shame for decades.

Now, emboldened by the gay soldiers serving openly in the military and the same-sex couples finding broad acceptance in civilian life, they are increasingly seeking amends.

“After all these years, I want to tie up loose ends,” said Jim Estep, 80, a retired professor in Buffalo, who was given a less-than-honorable discharge in 1964. “It’s a way of getting the government — that faceless entity — in some way to acknowledge the authenticity of my life and my contribution to the country.”

A 2011 Obama administration policy generally grants an honorable discharge to any veteran who was kicked out for homosexuality unless there were “aggravating” factors, such as misconduct. Records from the Department of Defense show 80 percent of the nearly 500 requests submitted since 2011 received an upgrade.

But for many it is far from an easy fix. Tracking down decades-old records and getting an upgrade can take years. Many veterans hire lawyers, and some veterans groups have asked for the process to be streamlined.

“It’s really frustrating,” said Becca von Behren, a staff attorney for the San Francisco organization Swords to Plowshares, which provides legal assistance to veterans. “If a veteran needs health care from the V.A. and it takes so long to get an upgrade, the veteran can really spiral down.”

A bill in Congress, known as the Restore Honor to Service Members Act, would grant blanket upgrades to nearly all veteran discharged for being gay, but it has been stalled in Congress since 2013, and backers say it has little chance of moving forward this year.

In the 1970s and 1980s, upgrading service records was the battleground of gay activists. Today the requests are coming from everyday citizens.

“These stories are buried deep; it can be traumatic to dredge it up again,” said Lori Gum, an organizer at Stonewall Columbus, a gay community center in Ohio. She has helped six veterans start the upgrade process in the past year, including Mr. Hallman, but said three were too troubled by the past to finish the application.

It's pretty damn simple, unless they can prove there was an error, they have no case for an upgraded discharge. They received due process at the time.

What's going the be the next cause, demanding all verdicts of pot possession be vacated in CO, WA, AK and DC? You fucking imbeciles need to get a freaking life.

Sad.

Did he have sex (or try to) with his fellow soldiers? If not, how did anyone know?

CAN YOU ANSWER THIS QUESTION?

 

[OKTexas]

It's disgusting what was done to these veterans.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/u...norable-discharges-they-were-denied.html?_r=1

COLUMBUS, Ohio — When the Army discharged Pvt. Donald Hallman in 1955 for being what it called a “Class II homosexual,” the 21-year-old was so scared of being an outcast that he burned all his military records, save for a single dog tag he hid away.

Mr. Hallman, a coal miner’s son who sang in a church choir in rural Alabama, says he never mentioned his military service again. He married a woman he had met at work, had children and wore a suit and tie to work each day.

“I hid it because it would have ruined my life,” Mr. Hallman said in an interview at his home here.

But this summer, Mr. Hallman, now 82, retrieved the dog tag from a keepsake box and began working through an application to the Department of Defense, asking that his decades-old discharge be upgraded from “undesirable” to “honorable.”

“I’ve gotten to a point in my life where no one can hurt me now,” he said. “I don’t care who knows, and I want to show I was an honorable person.”

He is one of a steady march of older veterans who were kicked out of the military decades ago for being gay, and who are now asking that their less-than-honorable discharges be upgraded.

Photo

Mr. Hallman put the circumstances of his discharge out of his mind for decades, and though he kept his dog tag, it was hidden away. CreditAndrew Spear for The New York Times
By some estimates, as many as 100,000 service members were discharged for being gay between World War II and the 2011 repeal of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. Many were given less-than-honorable discharges that became official scarlet letters — barring them from veterans’ benefits, costing them government jobs and other employment, and leaving many grappling with shame for decades.

Now, emboldened by the gay soldiers serving openly in the military and the same-sex couples finding broad acceptance in civilian life, they are increasingly seeking amends.

“After all these years, I want to tie up loose ends,” said Jim Estep, 80, a retired professor in Buffalo, who was given a less-than-honorable discharge in 1964. “It’s a way of getting the government — that faceless entity — in some way to acknowledge the authenticity of my life and my contribution to the country.”

A 2011 Obama administration policy generally grants an honorable discharge to any veteran who was kicked out for homosexuality unless there were “aggravating” factors, such as misconduct. Records from the Department of Defense show 80 percent of the nearly 500 requests submitted since 2011 received an upgrade.

But for many it is far from an easy fix. Tracking down decades-old records and getting an upgrade can take years. Many veterans hire lawyers, and some veterans groups have asked for the process to be streamlined.

“It’s really frustrating,” said Becca von Behren, a staff attorney for the San Francisco organization Swords to Plowshares, which provides legal assistance to veterans. “If a veteran needs health care from the V.A. and it takes so long to get an upgrade, the veteran can really spiral down.”

A bill in Congress, known as the Restore Honor to Service Members Act, would grant blanket upgrades to nearly all veteran discharged for being gay, but it has been stalled in Congress since 2013, and backers say it has little chance of moving forward this year.

In the 1970s and 1980s, upgrading service records was the battleground of gay activists. Today the requests are coming from everyday citizens.

“These stories are buried deep; it can be traumatic to dredge it up again,” said Lori Gum, an organizer at Stonewall Columbus, a gay community center in Ohio. She has helped six veterans start the upgrade process in the past year, including Mr. Hallman, but said three were too troubled by the past to finish the application.

It's pretty damn simple, unless they can prove there was an error, they have no case for an upgraded discharge. They received due process at the time.

What's going the be the next cause, demanding all verdicts of pot possession be vacated in CO, WA, AK and DC? You fucking imbeciles need to get a freaking life.

Sad.

But so true.