Our federal union --- it must be preserved

[heirtothewind]

Why?

It is a good question someone else raised on another thread. Lincoln is revered for saving the Union -- at the cost of 650,000 lives and destruction of the South where most farmers owned no slaves nor understood the arcane arguments of John Calhoun for nullification or states' rights.

The North had textile mills dependent on cotton and, despite the abolitionist movement, was probably more racist than the few in the South who owned slaves. The ''copperheads,'' therefore, sympathized with the South for economic reasons. A flood of freed slaves to the North willing to work in factories for lower pay was not welcome.

The North had industry and trade; the South, as Rhett Butler said, had nothing but cotton and arrogance. The South needed the North more than the North needed the South. Our Civil War may well have been unnecessary.

I invite thoughts and opinions on this topic.

 

[Roadrunner]

Why?

It is a good question someone else raised on another thread. Lincoln is revered for saving the Union -- at the cost of 650,000 lives and destruction of the South where most farmers owned no slaves nor understood the arcane arguments of John Calhoun for nullification or states' rights.

The North had textile mills dependent on cotton and, despite the abolitionist movement, was probably more racist than the few in the South who owned slaves. The ''copperheads,'' therefore, sympathized with the South for economic reasons. A flood of freed slaves to the North willing to work in factories for lower pay was not welcome.

The North had industry and trade; the South, as Rhett Butler said, had nothing but cotton and arrogance. The South needed the North more than the North needed the South. Our Civil War may well have been unnecessary.

I invite thoughts and opinions on this topic.

Look, many Americans no longer want to be a superpower and world police force.

I'd like a split, myself.

Three countries, the Left Coast being one, New England and old NW Territory could be another, and the rest of the states in the middle could be the third.

Alaska could go with the third one, Hawaii with the Left coast.

East coast and NW Territory states can have Puerto Rico.

 

[Anathema]

I would love to see a split. Here's how I would suggest doing it.......

Start with the states that were in existence at the time if the Civil War. One country would get the Northern States. The South would get all of those states plus West Virginia (since it was part of Virginia when the war started.)

Now we need to look at the voting records of every county in the country since 1860 (or whenever they became states). Those counties which vote predominantly Liberal would be termed Union counties. Those that vote predominantly Conservative would be termed Confederate.

Once those county designations had been determined the square acreage of each side's landmass would be calculated. Then, using the Mason-Dixon line as a starting point a computer would "trade" acreage on the Northern (Liberal) and Southern (Conservative) side of the line and continue moving west to the Pacific Ocean creating a new border. Preference would be given to keeping county and state borders as intact as possible.

Once the border had been determined a new "Confederate" government would be formed and people would be given 18 months to relocate as they see fit before the border was officially enacted as a national border.

This solution gives people the ability to end up wherever they prefer and maintains land mass based on historical principles.

 

[Roadrunner]

I just with the Yankees would kick us out.

Those left could love us or leave us.

We keep our share of the nukes though, the South will never be a Ukraine.

 

[JakeStarkey]

True Americans" would use the "18 months to relocate", take over the South, then rejoin the Union.

You noids aren't going nowhere.

 

[Anathema]

True Americans" would use the "18 months to relocate", take over the South, then rejoin the Union.

You noids aren't going nowhere.

The only True Americans left would be moving to the South en mass. You Liberal fucktards don't have the balls to kill anyone yourselves and most of your Army would be moving South

 

[heirtothewind]

Opposition to the American Civil War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Interesting article.

 

[Nosmo King]

I think these southern Conservatives are traitors for considering plunging this nation into civil war 150 years after the issue was decided. No patriotic American would entertain secession as an alternative to our accepted political process.

Would these neo-secessionists bring back slavery, or would they mask that by calling for no minimum wage? It is a lead pipe cinch that they would be active eroding personal freedom for groups and classes they just hate. Women's rights would disappear, the thought of marriage equality would be a punishable crime, the environment would degrade to the point they soon would seek expert help in correcting their mistakes. Children would be pressed into work because they would not receive an adequate education. Those kids would be forced to believe the Genisis myth and science classes would disappear.

There are no virtues in secession, only vices.

 

[Roadrunner]

I think these southern Conservatives are traitors for considering plunging this nation into civil war 150 years after the issue was decided. No patriotic American would entertain secession as an alternative to our accepted political process.

Would these neo-secessionists bring back slavery, or would they mask that by calling for no minimum wage? It is a lead pipe cinch that they would be active eroding personal freedom for groups and classes they just hate. Women's rights would disappear, the thought of marriage equality would be a punishable crime, the environment would degrade to the point they soon would seek expert help in correcting their mistakes. Children would be pressed into work because they would not receive an adequate education. Those kids would be forced to believe the Genisis myth and science classes would disappear.

There are no virtues in secession, only vices.

Nobody said anything about a new civil war; some of us just don't believe we need to be a huge country.

And if anyone does not accept our political process, it is the traitors that want to "fundamentally transform America" by running roughshod over the Constitution, like the present criminal regime.

 

[Nosmo King]

I think these southern Conservatives are traitors for considering plunging this nation into civil war 150 years after the issue was decided. No patriotic American would entertain secession as an alternative to our accepted political process.

Would these neo-secessionists bring back slavery, or would they mask that by calling for no minimum wage? It is a lead pipe cinch that they would be active eroding personal freedom for groups and classes they just hate. Women's rights would disappear, the thought of marriage equality would be a punishable crime, the environment would degrade to the point they soon would seek expert help in correcting their mistakes. Children would be pressed into work because they would not receive an adequate education. Those kids would be forced to believe the Genisis myth and science classes would disappear.

There are no virtues in secession, only vices.

Nobody said anything about a new civil war; some of us just don't believe we need to be a huge country.

And if anyone does not accept our political process, it is the traitors that want to "fundamentally transform America" by running roughshod over the Constitution, like the present criminal regime.

Running roughshod over the constitution is defined by overthrowing or abolishing it by secession. Treason, thy name is secession?

 

[heirtothewind]

I think these southern Conservatives are traitors for considering plunging this nation into civil war 150 years after the issue was decided. No patriotic American would entertain secession as an alternative to our accepted political process.

Would these neo-secessionists bring back slavery, or would they mask that by calling for no minimum wage? It is a lead pipe cinch that they would be active eroding personal freedom for groups and classes they just hate. Women's rights would disappear, the thought of marriage equality would be a punishable crime, the environment would degrade to the point they soon would seek expert help in correcting their mistakes. Children would be pressed into work because they would not receive an adequate education. Those kids would be forced to believe the Genisis myth and science classes would disappear.

There are no virtues in secession, only vices.

I agree. In my experience, flag-waving conservatives professing that the Constitution is being defiled by liberals cannot even tell you anything about the Constitution except that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. They do not think; they only repeat slogans they have heard. They hate Obama because he does not fit their stereotype of a black man -- he graduate at the top of his class from Harvard Law School and is intellectually superior to them. Rick Perry, on the other hand, could not even pass a high school civics test.

 

[Anathema]

Running roughshod over the constitution is defined by overthrowing or abolishing it by secession. Treason, thy name is secession?

Not at all when the Government being resisted is extra - Constitutional in nature as it has been since 1861.

 

[Anathema]

I also notice that all the responses to my idea have been emotional, not logic - based. It's an idea that would give everyone the opportunity to get what they want without a single bullet being fired seems to upset many on the Left.

 

[heirtothewind]

It appears that every discussion on this site, regardless of category, devolves into idiotic bickering between conservatives and liberals, resolving nothing.

 

[regent]

In fact I would like to see our county get its freedom from the state. The state is a drag, but our county is up and coming, and maybe later our city break with the county. Come to think of it my immediate neighborhood is the best, and if only we had our freedom from the oppressive city, county, state, and nation how happy we would be. Hope this thing works.

 

[Unkotare]

Oh look, a fantasy thread for traitorous, unAmerican scumbags. Good job outing yourselves, scumbags.

 

[Jarlaxle]

True Americans" would use the "18 months to relocate", take over the South, then rejoin the Union.

You noids aren't going nowhere.

He lives in the northeast, dude.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Northeast would swamp the lower states

 

[Anathema]

The Northeast would swamp the lower states

Based on what.... cowardice, pacifism, and a lack of willingness to live their own supposed beliefs.

I live here in New England as a saboteur and forward based provocateur for the coming Revolution.

 

[whitehall]

The dirty little secret is that the Union would have been preserved and a half million lives would have been saved and slavery would have ended if Lincoln decided to bow out and not run for reelection.